ALTERNATIVE Shifters for Gravel & Bikepacking 

I like the cave of bad ideas

Great idea using friction shifters to take advantage of a wide-range cassette at low cost! Taking things in the other direction, you can use friction shifters to go back to 2x8 or 9 speed drivetrain. I use this setup on my touring bike. The thicker chain and cogs last much longer. And the wider space between cogs makes them easier to clean when you are on the road. Not the sportiest setup, but it's great if you want a very durable bike.

Friction is the answer to all shifting problems.

I've ridden 10spd friction with a 1982 thumb shifter on the bar and it works great. Friction is awesome for the home mechanic.

Thanks for the content on the gravel bikes, I am trying to sort out what options are out there for a new build I am looking at doing.

I've recently discovered Microshift shifters for Shimano internal geared hubs. I got rid of the my trigger shifter and my twist shifter converting to the greatly simplified Microshift lever shifter. Microshift is definitely onto something with the concept of making simple equipment that takes up as little space on the handlebar as possible and simply works well.

The cave of bad ideas is actually a great idea! Wonderfully choreographed with the throw back video quality, and humorous. Kudos to you!

Russ, that was a well done and informative video. Thumbs up! And now a comment, if I may. I've recently noticed a troubling trend among the hosts of RU-vidr bike and guitar channels I enjoy. That is, the host feels understandably compelled to respond to the snarky and/or critical comments by a few know-it-all commentors/trolls. (I am obviously not speaking about respectful questions, comments, or differences of opinion). Here is my free advice (worth every penny) as a fan of you and your channel . . . . don't. It only encourages the negative minority to continue that behavior. It also has a subtle corrosive effect, to this viewer at least, on your usually pleasant affect. Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays to you and Laura.

Russ, you are doing Wath we call "REAL LIFE" here at my country! Best Regards from Brasil man!

Love this Russ. You have tons of unique content, from a unique perspective, which is so hard to find these days!!

On My budget Gravel Budget Mullet I have Dura-ace Bar-end shifter 10 spd, shimano 36-11 cassette, Sram x5 deraileur. I run it friction and have no troubles whatsoever even when competing in races. Love this run of videos Russ!

I love my thumbies, I've been adding them to my bike packing rigs for the last 3 years. Infinite adjustable gearing!

Thanks for being willing to explore! Love this series.

Cave of bad ideas has been so fun. I love sittin in my tiny garage and workin on stuff. This is great inspiration for more fun times... seriously would like a stand like this now.

This 80's intro is great man. Keep up this series. It's great addition to the channel 👌👍

I like how much effort you put into your videos, good job!

Your video and editing skills, which were always good, just keep getting better. Adding that to content I love is a delight. Carry on.

Nice video, all I had was friction shifting till about 1985 when I got my first 6 speed with indexed shifting and I immediately loved it-but I do still like the idea of total control of all shifts including up and down the cassette as fast as I like and mix and match components to my liking- just a great idea with unlimited possibilities-THANK YOU

I have no idea what's going on in this cave of bad ideas. But I'm entertained. And dude, what's wrong with your back wheel? 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣

Thx for your great videos, made me Upgrade my 90‘s mtb to a gravel bike with microshift friction shifter derailer and 11-42 cassette. Keepern the good work😃👍🏾

Dude, you have no rear tire. Dont ride your bike like that!

Oh it's a wonderful feeling when you achieve complete drivetrain emancipation! The Gevenalle brifters come in a non-indexed versio ntoo. They are not cheap, but are a nice way to put friction shifters on a modern bike frame. They are not as ergonomically awesome as Shimano/SRAM brifters, but they do allow you to keep hands on the hoods. Another brilliant video! Thanks!

Thanks for that honest plea for >>microshift

Great. Very interesting. Regarding bar-end shifters. Back in the day we would cut an inch off the end of the bars before fitting the shifters. Just to clear the knees. 👍

Thx for your great videos, made me Upgrade my 90‘s mtb to a gravel bike with microshift friction shifter derailer and 11-42 cassette. Keep up the good work😃👍🏾

I've been riding with Gevnalle/ original RetroShift setup for years on a monster cross setup with 10 speed XTR and love them. The ability to run friction has bailed me out a couple times during some early Spring muddy rides.

Having recently inherited a 3x8 City bike that I want to convert from straight bar to drop, I was having trouble figuring out what kind of shifters to use. This video was very informative to that end, thank you!

I appreciate your qualifier at the beginning of the video. And LOVE the video series title. AND 11 sp chains are wicked thin and friction shifters will place more friction and thus damage to the chain. With that said this config could be great for speccing a bike for snow travel or short term usage.

Keep up the good work man, this is outstanding content!

Long live the cave of bad ideas 😀

great video series! my life is a cave of bad ideas, and therefore my rigged up clunker of a bike is as well! i tried a bunch stuff like this and ultimately ended up landing back on more of a common 2x10 setup, but with mismatched components. a lot of this experimentation comes from trying to make my bike do stuff it wasn't designed to do... but ultimately i now have a more functional creature for how i ride.

I really like the intro it new and funny!! The more you make videos in the cave of bad ideas the more desired it is to see more videos

Great video! Definitely looking to friction shifting for upcoming bike build. Thanks for the great content!

Your becoming the Victor Frankenstein of bikes Russ, love it 👍

That's awesome. If I ever leave 2x10 I'll look at the microshift setup! I love the microshift thumbies on my VO piolet. Amazing how there is nothing rapid about "rapid fire" shifters, which I started using in 1992.

😁 Now this is fun bike nerdery. Have a vintage bike project and definitely feel good about the friction options with modern ratios to keep it a bit more authentication. Thanks

Love the research. Having just started using the Gevenalle 10 speed shifter myself, I like how it can be used with up to a 50t cassette. Love all the videos, now about that rear wheel.... lol.

Intro music starts -> instant thumbs UP!

Been loving these videos!!!

OMG people can't just watch a video and see a bike on a bike stand and think that's not the finished product his just wrenching so I'll just leave it be.... They're probably the 6 people who thumbed down the video..... Relax people, it's just a video on trying to figure things out. Sit back, relax and enjoy and unwind a little if that's possible hahaha

Great video--very useful. I've just purchased a 2x11 microshift to run a 2x11 XT setup on my gravel bike (repurposed single speed 29er from 2011). Looking forward to riding it and I might go without running indexing!

More than 3 minutes into the video and you are still giving disclaimers... Damn you internet for not letting ya boi do his thing and bless us with pure content!

Nice vid Russ! Hope you're not getting bogged down by all the bike nerd comments. You're doing an awesome job. Love the channel, keep it up!

Great video Russ! I always thought I was the only one running friction shifters ( did not even know the name ) until I found your channel. =D

You always crack me up , you do let people wind you up.

You call it Bogging, … I call it Component Interchangeability Alternatives (CIA). In any case, I am really enjoying all this Testing that you are doing. Because I am building a gravel bike based on the SOMA Wolverine and that is because of the video you made. Thank you. I also am into modifying old bikes that I have. And what I mean by modifying bikes is I can make parts lighter by machining off material and or making parts for adapting brakes when you want to go with bigger tires, etc.

Nice video Russ! Let me show my age. Back in the 1970's when I started biking seriously there was only friction shifting, either down tube or bar end. With practice it is just as precise as indexed with the advantage of being able to make huge jumps (not a great idea but....). I didn't convert my road bike to index shifting until 2009 and I must say I love my shimano 105 brifters. With friction there should be no difference between a 10 or 9 or 11 or.....etc. cassette since the horizontal distance from lowest to highest is the same. With your lead I will try my vintage (used to be called old) barend shifters on a 10 speed cassette. I am confident it will work since there is only 5mm -or so- difference in the horizontal distance on the 5 to 7 speed freewheel (less) compared to a cassette. Also, there have been flared handlebars since I began riding, they used to be called randoneur bars. These were popular with tourists, or randoneurs😃. What I don't like about bar end shifters is having to move to and from them all the time....down tube shifters were better, or more natural, and brifters rule (in my opinion). For world tours nothing beats simplicity but in the developed world a bit more complex technology is not a killer criterium. I have been least happy with SRAM's double tap shifting on the Apex that came with my Kona Rove. Shimano has the better tech in drive trains....but that is a belief argument or just my opinion (I'll bet this also gets comments.....🤪...they'll give me something to laugh at). Merry Christmas!

I have 22 bikes running everything from Sora to Dura Ace and Altus to XT. MicroSHIFT works perfectly and is affordable. In fact, I just finished a build using the 11sp Arsis groupset and it shifts as good as my Ultegra 6800 (they are Campy style). I also have a few of their MTB shifters and derailleurs on a few builds and they've been rock solid. I had an old set of Ulegra 9sp brifters that needed replacing and the microSHIFT R9's shift flawlessly. The R7, R8 and 9's are great alternatives for replacing old Shimano brifters. Running R7's on a 1989 GT Avalanche drop bar conversion--still using the original Deore mech and chainset.

Like! Like! Like! You are doing great stuff. Only channel I clicked the bell for.

Yes! Thanks for covering the bar-end shifter. I've read a little about the Microshift and have been curious about them. Trying to figure out what I want to do to my "trail designated" Bike Friday. With no front derailleur, I have been considering my options to get a lower gear range. Hmmm...more research to do. :-)

Hey Russ, I have a suggestion for an economical dual control lever, 11-50t "mullet" drivetrain that should work without exceeding any components specifications, requiring any cable pull adapters, derailleur hanger extenders, or b screw funny business! Shifter: Microshift SB-M110. This is Microshift's dual control "trekking" lever. The product description says it is designed for Microshift or Shimano 11 speed mtb derailleurs. Derailleur: Box Two 11 speed X-Wide Cage. This derailleur is designed for use with an 11-50t cassette, like the Sunrace one you have. It says in the FAQ section of the product description that if you use a Tanpan, it is compatible with Shimano drop bar road levers. That means it uses the same pull ratio as Shimano mtb derailleurs and should be compatible with the SB-M110!

Great video, super helpful, some Rivendell Silver Shifters are in my future!

Great info here. Would love to see some of these on the road. Curious to the ease of shifting.

Nice show and tell video - you show how it works and tell it like it is. My personal thoughts are that, for touring, the bar end shifter would swing it for me as it would be less likely to get damaged in a crash and looks lie it would give an easier shift when things get a bit dirty. I have a 3 x 9 set up on one bike and a new 1 x 11 on the other. Definitely going to look up the wolf thingy to get more out of the 1 x 11 - thanks, great video.

Great informative videos. Keep it up!

Hi mate, great channel content 👍🏻I use campy downtube shifters on my 531 steel gazelle (1985) on 10 speed with a deore rear!!! Like the look of the. Microshift barend unit. 👍🏻🚴🏽🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

Great episode! I have been considering the Microshift 11sp for a while and it is good to know what pairings work. In your SRAM Eagle testing one thing I have experimented with is the NX Eagle using the stock MTB shifter with the Paul Components 31.8 adapter to mount it near the stem in a drop bar setup. It is functional but perhaps not elegant, but bar end shifters require a reach as well, so it may be a similarly decent solution.

Russ you rock !

I just picked up some of the microSHIFT Centos shifters. really liking them. I only used to friction shifting before

I absolutely love my 10 speed gevenalle shifters on fiction. Couldn't quite get the indexing just right and gave up. Went to friction and never looked backed. Have ridden like that 2 seasons and have yet to have a problem with it.

I've worked on various mullet setups for drop bar conversions on my fatbike, and mtb drivetrains on my gravel bike. So far the best budget solution I have found is simply a Paul 31.8 shifter clamp, and either a microshift indexed shifter of choice, or a MTB sram trigger shifter mounted to the paul clamp. Then you can pair this with a Sunrace cassette of your choice, and a wolftooth goatlink if you want.

I run 9 speed Gevenalle road shifters no problem with a 10 speed 11-36 cassette on my road bike and run in friction more than index. Microshift makes solid shifters and imo they are as good as the big names.

A good argument can be made for friction shifters.. might be more reliable, in winter you don't want mechanical issues

I have one of those Microshift barcons and a $40 Amazon Warehouse deal SRAM Apex 1 rear derailleur. Really good combo currently friction shifting a Shimano 9 speed HG-400 12-36 cassette.

Really impressed with microshift advent 9 speed wide range 11-42, derailleur , and barcon

Nice Russ :). I am building surly troll frameset with drop bars. I think the microshift bar end will be good

for the record I managed to use a 1990's Ritchey friction shifter (with modified stops as it was probably a six speed shifter!) to throw an entire 12sp NX Eagle cassette using an XT 11sp derailleur with unusual success! viva la friction! ;-)

Thank you!

Thanks for this video! Have been contemplating bar end shifters for a while now. I've had so many bad experiences with my STI shifters in the past. They never seem to last longer than a year or so (Ultegra, Tiagra or 105) before I get inconsistent and annoying shifts. I live in hilly Ireland where frequent shifts are normal. Maybe that's why, but still very disappointed with Shimano shifters.

I've been running an old xt 7spd in friction with a 10 speed cassette for several years. Never had an issue. Shifter cost 10 bucks which works for me. No GCN money here...

Never liked bar-end shifters because of the knee spiking issues. You can get a thumb shifter mount though, SJS do them (as do the Chinese copycats) Little bit of hacking to get them to fit on drops but possible (I've never tried, just anecdotally). Great content as always Russ!

nice intro!

There's another type of shifter that a lot of folks seem unaware of: The wing shifter, aka suntour command shifter, aka Dia Compe ENE Wing shifter. These are ultra compatible and I use them on a couple bikes and actually prefer them to the rather nice campy 11 ergo shifters on my other bike. The only catch is that the Dia Compe ENE version which is 11s is a bit pricey still. On the plus side it has that ratcheting style action like older Simplex Retrofriction and Suntour Powershifters. I tend to use the old Suntour Command shifters off ebay cuz they're cheap, but if I had a newer 11 speed+ bike like this one I'd buy one single Dia Compe ENE Wing Shifter and have at it! A nice feature is that you can shift from the hoods, the hooks OR the tops which is actually more than typical STI type brifters. Also, they work with EVERYTHING being friction.... I think if you give them a shot you'll be a convert, hopefully more folks will know about them and bring the price down!

did you just say, out sprint Mark Cavendish XD. love you your videos man

I use Dura Ace 8 and 9 spd bar ends that are so old the indexing is worn out. I use anything from 6-10 speed and theyre wonderful. Im Using a 9 speed chain on old 7 speed Sun Tour XC pro cranks to get better front shifting with either 2 or 3 chainrings. Narrower gaps work better for me on the cassette. Everything shifts super smooth. Friction ALWAYS WORKS with whatever parts. This gives you the most reliability and accessibility to spares anywhere your travels take you. I'll probably try Rivendell's shifters when I build up a drop bar mtb.

Interesting stuff. I am only using my fatbike Surleys for the adventure biking, but cool ideas for a drop bar bike.

On my quiver-killer I'm running the Microshift 12 speed barcon in friction with an eagle derailleur and e13 12 speed 9-46 cassette (32t chainring and 27.5x2.2 tires if you're curious). Not budget unfortunately, but friction with 12 speed works really well. Setting up the shifter to work indexed was very finicky and never seemed to shift properly across the cassette, but friction is so much easier. The hardest part for me was learning the muscle memory to shift in small increments, especially when going onto larger cogs. Another option that looks good is the Microshift Advent group, 9 speed 11-42. Unfortunately, it requires a trigger shifter and I haven't seen anything about compatibility with friction shifters, but if it could work I think could be a very solid budget drivetrain.

Russ you need wear a cave of bad ideas shirt while testing your setups. Then you could sell such shirts to buy all the components you want to test.

If I'd go back to friction shifting (which I always liked better than mechanical index shifting) on any bike with a round steel downtube I'd get a downtube shifter. Dropping the right hand straight down to the shifter always felt so natural.

Microshift looks like a fantastic option. Wish it was sold in the UK

Too many Armchair Quarterbacks on RU-vid. ~Thank you for you perseverance.

Take SLX 11sp shifter, cut off clamp. Take 31.8mm seatpost clamp, drill out threads, notch with file to match profile of shifter. Mount seatpost clamp next to stem on 31.8mm bars, place SLX shifter against notch in seatpost clamp, run longer 4mm bolt thru seatpost clamp into threads on SLX shifter and tighten. Drink a beer. You now have an all-Shimano 1x11 mullet drivetrain on your drop bar bike. 🍻

The mid and high level Microshift stuff is pretty nice. Microshift as a whole doesn't seem to get much notice, probably because fighting against Shimano & SRAM's marketing budget is a bad idea so they don't bother. A few 2020 gravel bikes have it equipped OEM so hopefully will see it used more as a viable alternative groupset.

I currently use old suntour micro ratcheting friction bar ends with an Old Deore derailleur with a 10 speed 11-30 cassette without issue. Just picked up a gently used set of Dura Ace 10 speed bar ends and a Dura Ace 10 speed derailleur to match. Might try a wolfstooth to increase cassette size.

Dr Cowan Frankenbike has got a mullet D.T. that consists of Tiagra 10s brifters, 11-42 sunrace cassette, Deore 10s RD and a wolftooth tanpan to make it all work. The good Dr. also runs with an 36t oval wolftooth N/W chainring.

I have the original Retro-Shifts before they changed their name to Gevenalle. Will never use mainstream brifters again! I currently have Dura-Ace bar-end shifters on them now. That's the great thing about the design, is that you can mount any bar-end (technically downtube, as you remove the plug mounts) shifter. That Microshift 11spd bar-end shifter you tested could have been mounted on the Gevenalle for your test. I even put bar-end shifters on my flat bar bikes using a Paul thumb mount.

Just a comment on the bar end shifters, I've got a bike built by my Dad in 1977 and it has bar end shifters. It doesn't at all hit my knees, and it has the old school (no flare) handle bars.

Rolf prima, sick.

I put a 10sp Gevenalle set on my Giant Revolt and I only run it in friction, road or dirt, that’s how much I love it’s performance. I wouldn’t put friction on my dedicated road bikes tho’.

Love the video, would be interesting in seeing how the Eagle NX performs as I have a regular GX & it's hard to find sub-compact(46/ 30) road doubles in a GXP mount in a 170 or 172.5 crank length. Maybe swapping rear cassette from 38t to 42t or if possible 46t w/ road link be the cheaper option.

I dunno if anyone pointed it out yet... But there's no tire on your wheel and that masking tape won't hold up well if you're out on a tour. While you can ride a bike with no tire on the wheel it's not very good for the wheel and it's harder to stop and you can't drive as fast. Take care. Don't forget to wear your helmet either.

I have to assume anyone saying friction doesn't work well beyond 9sp hasn't tried it. It's so simple and smooth I can't find a single downside to it. I've been touring on 11sp friction for a year after 5 years of 10sp friction. It makes my driverain last longer as my hand and brain can shift much better than a klunky index

You think the Sram Rival 11 speed with hydraulic brake with flat mount works on MTB post mount with a adapter ? Or even with other mtb caliper? Maybe Sram level...

Hey Russ, loving the cave of bad ideas series. The 80’s bit is super entertaining too! Only recommendation I have is to lay off knocking GCN and the money they have. I think people understand you are just a regular guy putting out bike content with what you have available to you. I support you on Patreon, think more people should too, and really appreciate all that you put out as it is. I also have watched a fair share of GCN videos and appreciate them in a different way. Just be a little more subtle about the money and comments and avoid knocking anyone if you can.

Loving the Cave of Bad Ideas. I was wondering if you tried the bar end shifter with the 50 tooth cassette? Great content! Thanks!

This video is great! I've been pondering how to cheaply and easily get lower gears on a 1x touring bike build I am planning and was going to settle for Shimano GRX with an 11-46 cassette and an aftermarket chainring but this would seemingly allow me to run a Shimano crankset with a Sram rear derailleur which is what I would really like to try but didn't think it was easy without some expensive gadgets to convert the pull ratios. Only thing I am still confused about is which bar-end shifters actually work for 11-speed friction shifting, I've been trying to find the Microshift shifter you are using on their website but the only 11-speed bar-end shifter they currently have is listed as index-only so I don't think it is the exact same model. Can anyone confirm that their 10-speed shifters work with 11-speed cassettes or know of other bar-end shifters which work with 11-speed cassettes and are friction shift?

Hey do you put your bartape before a bar end shifter? You start over it or you put your tape inside the tip of the bar before installing the shifter? Thanks!

I like the idea of alternative shifters in terms of barends etc but personally I feel like the shifter on those Gevenalle levers would get in the way.

Please do more intros in this 90’s sitcom style

If you had gcn money you wouldn't be able to make real review videos because you'd be at the will of sponsors.