Narcissists hate it when you grey rock. Initially, it may even make them a lot worse. They may even become violent. Because they need your emotional reactions.
This happened to me with narc sister in law. I stayed calm and neutral around her, not engaging, and she raged at me for it. Super messed up. I did stand up for myself though and tell her to stop but she wouldn’t. Then she lied to my brother about what happened. She really showed her true colours.
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Document and record every encounter with them. I used to send the "crazymaking arguments" to their voicemail. THEY really arent aware of how horrible they are being during the tantrum. It really shocks them to hear themselves.
Appeasing anyone will become exhausting at some point where resentment sets in. The days of making others comfortable at the expense of my own are long gone! Let 'em move on to someone else...They're gonna be alright just not with me.
Their abuse and underhanded behavior is just enough for me to go silent and monotone. Going grey rock after figuring them out became second nature to me. I had stopped caring.
Years ago, way before I knew anything about narcissistic people, I greyrocked an abuser for nearly two hours. I sat emotionless and listened to every word he threw at me. I was timing him to see how long he would go. That’s how accustomed I had gotten to him doing it. When he finally ran out of steam, he started to walk away. I said, “Wait one minute.” He was apparently shocked to hear I had a voice. “My turn to speak. If you ever speak to me using any of those words ever again, I will throw your shit out and change the locks because people who claim to love you don’t say those things.” It felt good to let him know BUT as you might guess. The next time he didn’t think life was fair he escalated into pushing. The next day I threw his things out and changed the locks.
Dr Ramani i love and respect you so much. You have helped me and so many others. But you know what? I have finally stopped watching every video. And i think this means I am (largely) healed. Wow. Thank you so much. I remain a subscriber and supporter forever and recommend you to anyone that will listen.
Years ago, my mother in law started raging at me with both my father in law and husband sitting right there. They said nothing. I maintained eye contact with my mil, never changed expression and said nothing. She kept trying to goad me into a fight. I remember thinking, “This woman is a kook!” I began to have a difficult time trying not to burst out laughing at how ridiculous she looked and sounded. She finally ran out of steam, I never again suggested we “stop by just to say Hi” and never shared anything personal about myself again. She never went off on me again…..probably because I was unflappable. I still laugh about it and it’s been 50+ years.
As I’m learning gray rocking, this really resonates. I’m noticing that I when I check in with myself after the interaction, if I wasn’t doing the gray rock right, I feel small and weak. Thank you for the words to put to that feeling.
One was griping about someone else the other day. Then they followed up by saying, "I'm cruel." I think they wanted me to tell them what a good person they were and convince them I didn't think they were, but I just replied with "Yep," and went inside. Shut them up immediately and they sulked the rest of the day.
When I'd finally had enough of the poor treatment but still needed time to get my ducks in a row before leaving, my gray rock method was a blank look and "okay" during his accusations. It gave him no supply or fight, and it was a way for me to end an encounter without agreeing to his false accusations. If I said "yes you're right" just to appease him, I would've started believing it myself at some point.
This message really resonates because of your word choice Dr Ramani! I asked for less physical affection once and was told no. When I said I “felt like a human pacifier” (it was so excessive) you’d have thought I killed someone. He said I’m just the only one who can reassure him and asked that I never use that term again. It’s very validating to hear someone else describe their appeasement that way. Thank you for all your hard work and shared knowledge.
When I clicked on, I would have said: "NO!" But grey rock is my friend. It helps me calm down, it helps me practice self control. Expressing a different opinion is an explosion waiting to happen. I don't so they hate it.
OMG ... I never really thought about it before, but my narcissistic spouse is constantly trying to scare me into not doing anything other than taking care of him and our home. And, I am exhausted from appeasing him constantly. Uugghh!
I'm having to re-examine my concept of grey rocking. It's probably people pleasing side of me that has seen gray rocking this to be cold and inhuman. What I am starting to realize more and more thankfully is that grey rocking is it means to help me be more human with myself!
It can be hard because stonewalling is so similar to gray rocking. But the difference is stonewalling is done to punish, generally done by the narcissist. Whereas grey rocking is self preservation, intention is everything.
Yes. The more you grey or yellow rock the more “you” comes back. One person here said behave as if it’s a person at the grocery store. Pleasant, calm, yes, no. ❤ you can do it.
My neighbor flipped on out me because I got sick and had to cancel on her. She started gaslighting me and trying to provoke me into an argument. I ignored everything she was doing. I didn’t even look at her when I was outside mowing the grass. This infuriated her. She decided to kill my flowering plants that I have growing on my fence (not shared with her). It was obvious the weed killer started on her property and a line of dead grass trailed over to my plants. She’s not bright. I filed a police report. This happened about three weeks ago. She’s been “on vacation” for a week and a half now. No one is home. Her yard is overgrown and the plants she has on her porch are dying.
"You're not even going to help me?" _Responses: Choose just one. Then stay quiet for a while._ I don't have the energy. It's way beyond my knowlege or ability. I don't have any idea how to help your problem. It's beyond me. Nope. If this happened to me, then I'd be asking YOU for help. I'm no good at this kind of thing. You know that. I'd be afraid to touch it. I don't want to make it worse. No. You'll blame me if it gets worse. You know more about this than I do. If you don't have an idea, then I surely don't have one. These are just my ideas. They worked on my narkys, sort of, sometimes better than others. But my Narkys aren't your narkys. Stay safe! If any of this works, please use it for yourself!
I found myself in the presence of a long time family member whom i hadnt seen for some time, she is highly antagonistic & i automatically went full on appeasement mode as my parent who has dementia was also there & the conversation from them both was crazy....i become mindful about my behavior and i ceased to speak for long intervals while attempting to practise my breathing which my therapist has taught me to do during times of stress...i left shortly after that & had forgotten about how difficult it can be to be in the company of toxic people I had forgotten to grey rock the minute she sat at our table I did alright though Very apt video Thank you Dr.Ramini.
It’s crazy you just said “you’re going to stop filling that human pacifier role.” I had this same thought about being a pacifier earlier this morning. I’m tired of having to pacify him. It’s exhausting.
Please address physical violence, the rage that erupts in your direction and you may well get physically assaulted, as I did. Cars,, belongings, even pets may be physically attacked, as well, during a rage episode. Please address safety, de-escalation techniques and domestic violence resources.
That's what I need. When I end it, I plan on hiding most of my dishes under my bed. Anything that can be easily thrown I'll hide. Taking our kids to my moms. My husband started with breaking things. Then started pushing me, pushing me while holding one of our kids. It's escalated to throwing drinks at me and spitting on me. A few weeks ago, he came home drunk and pushed me into the wall in front of our kids a few times and then choked me three times with both hands while pushing me down. He shoved me into the bed frame hard enough it left a big bruise on my thigh. I've got videos and photos of that aftermath if I ever need it. It's a scary step. Cops can't help until someones already hurt.
Better understanding narcissism helps me distance myself from those people emotionally. How they act is still annoying and being around them can be stressful but I don’t really take anything they say and do personal. They are kind of like children to me, not really to be taken seriously so I don’t engage with them on eye level. It’s kind of like these shorts about gentle parenting your in laws, but not expecting them to change, just managing their emotions in that specific moment and moving on with your life afterwards.
For example if they are venting their emotions I started to respond with ‚I can see that this is upsetting you‘ or when they start criticising me or trying to enrage me I simply ignore them, smile through it and change the topic or if it’s too outrageous I answer with something like ‚This was not a very nice thing to say, I will not spent time with you when you act like that‘. They are like toddlers to me who are throwing a tantrum or who are trying to hit me, there is no reason to argue with a toddler or be hurt because a toddler hit you. However, I won’t continue playtime with a toddler that is hitting me. I don’t know if this counts as gray rocking but it helps me deal with those narcissists I don’t want to completely cut off. It’s just one step from breaking contact and I am ready to do that at any moment. I feel like they intuitively understand that and try to behave to some extend. They cannot manipulate me by making me angry, sad or flattering me, I don’t take anything they tell me about others seriously, they cannot use me as a flying monkey against others, they cannot create conflict with me, and so they kind of settle on me tolerating their presence. And that’s all I am willing to give.
Your videos are absolutely amazing and so in depth! I am dealing with such a magnitude of the aftermath of being with a narcissist. Ive dealt with heavy things people shouldn’t have to deal with, in a short amount of time. Im now starting to see the light some, some days are better than others. But I know its part of the process. I know now, ive done nothing wrong, thank you for taking the time to help us understand ourselves and narcissists better Dr. Ramani!
I finally stopped appeasing the narcissists, and it was a harsh reality check as the narcs raged at me for not engaging or standing up for myself, and the enablers and flying monkeys came to their defence. Super messed up. I see things clearly now for sure. Protecting myself now no matter what. Thank you Dr Ramani ❤
I never do the grey rock thing, and I have some really aggressive vampires in my world. What I do instead, is stay true to myself, practicing gratitude and finding the silver lining, even with someone who intends to be my enemy. Changing the subject to positive things can eventually help them. Downside is positive people become their savior. Now NPD is your "stray cat". I don't feed strays, unless i want a pet.
I had given my sister a lot of long distant attention and support during her chemo (she lives in another state). As it ended old patterns started to appear and I was afraid I would get hovered in. I started to gray rock, right now I am getting the silent treatment. As far as I am concerned that is a victory.
Not appeasing the narcissist will definitely help you preserve your energy and once we feel that being protective of our energy loss works wonders, we will have it more to move ourselves in the direction of indifference which is the wonderful outcome of healing from the narcissistic abuse.
Brilliant explanations and examples. Appeasing can keep you stuck as you don't see the relationship as clearly. The more ways we have to look at Gray Rock make it easier to decide if it could work for us.
I will say this- living in such a society teaches you "double-think" (on the one hand I see what is happening (going on)/ on the other "I still see a normal/ beautiful world" (something like lying to yourself; such a strange "defense mechanism"); you just have to avoid them), because this is the only way to survive (still being a joyful person), so as not to become a pathology as well. But (a few years ago- that's why I left strategically, to have an emergency exit; in Switzerland nobody cares what pathology thinks/ says ;) I used to have a huge cognitive dissonance when they said that abnormal is normal... so I have to become pathological so that they would consider me normal??? That's sick... 😆🙃 BR... Duc! 😗😉
It is pathetic to be abusive and dominant, and then keep on turning weak and in need of soothing. At least psychopaths stay dominant and unflappable throughout.
I have had so much practice 'Grey rocking' a narcissist that it's second nature when I see them now. The problem arises when I am working with he/she and I have to talk to them when in a group discussion. Inside I am boiling and thinking 'I wish I had an on/off button' A narcissist loves holding court and the topic of conversation is all about THEM. It's unbearable !!! I do not want to be seen as the bad guy, but equally I wish I could just say what I want. I know this wouldn't help. It can be SO hard to manage your interactions with a colleague who is a narcissist.
Oh my! Appeasing is what I’ve been doing for my mom my whole 57 years of life! She is 81 now and it is so exacerbated with the death of my father 2 and half years ago. So exhausting.
Me too. My mom was coming over every day, 7 days a week, and talking my ear off for hours. I finally chased her off, but dang... I was just so drained all the time.
Thank you for the video, Dr. Ramani. The audio sounds off in this video. Usually the audio quality has been awesome lately. I will let the narc get burned when they cross my boundaries. That's the only way to learn not to touch fire.
Doctor, thanks to you I keep finding out I'm doing better than I thought and I have the potential to improve. I'm proud of myself, and I'm proud of my son who's learning a lot in a short period of time even when unlike me he didn't spend 4 years out of this house. Thank you so much!!
I experienced the more appeasing I was the bar was raised higher by the narcissist including the raging tantrums. Of course when I started to retract it became very nasty. My version of grey rocking has become me doing only the basics with this person. Today I was recollecting what a beast they actually are, I’m definitely doing radical acceptance now.
Every time I ever said it was gonna be OK. They shoot you down anyway and come back with a negative comment. I don’t even bother they start moaning about something yeah well oh well that’s life.
Dr ramani please address other psychological sickness in society,stuff like patriarchy,Misogyny, racism are branches of narcissism and contribute to it am politely asking if you would address it.
So awhile ago I finally had enough and told my covert narcissist exactly what they were. They almost seemed amused. But now they aren’t even trying to hide it anymore and yesterday they said the most disrespectful thing to me and then said - sometimes the truth hurts. I’m not sorry I said what I did… so I guess I basically gave them permission to come out of the narcissistic closet??
When my mom is in one of her moods, reassuring or pacifying her doesn't work. She'll just snap at you no matter what you say. I've learned that nobody should say anything unless she speaks to them. Even then, expect her to get worked up about what is said. She's in fire-breathing dragon mode.
I can’t afford to appease any toxic relationship. In a way you’re giving away your authentic you and the feeling isn’t healthy. Life is too short to get stuck in a very low and bad energy.
I Andrej Vidovic born on January 9 1986 in Sarajevo Bosnia had to run away from home to literally save my life yesterday.... And people are bugging me and not taking no for an answer for everything from A to Z all day in the last 24 hours..... They barely even care if I'm dead or alive😮😮😮😮😮
Gray Rocking ... appeasing ... all of this saved my sanity but it gave a false sense that the relationship was ok/good . Crazy making in order to stay safe and sane 😢💔💯‼️ Being able to sit back and truly observe him manipulate people on a daily basis .... really believing his own reality and he'll bent on attacking anything and anyone who challenges his reality 😢😢 It's a weirdly toxic loving , scary, manipulative and cult-like family and friend circle that on the surface seems so close , fun loving, giving and friendly but the underlying truth is sad , mean, hateful, twisted, deceitful, scary and fearful. If your with them then all good if you disagree or leave them or they are just done with you ...you become public enemy #1 !! One minute they love you for decades and think the world of you then a flip of switch ( you do something they don't like) and you are the devil and fair game to destroy how ever they see fit ...you are hated and dead to them !!! 😢😢💔💯
I was in a situation where I had to listen to my “ best friend” ( former acquaintance) talk some spiritual woo/ woo garbage and sat there expressionless, not believing a word of it. I could tell he was shaken up by my lack of a response.Sure thing, bro, cities of gold, talking to deceased parents as if it was a matter of fact. And not one recording or photo. From a pathological liar. Sure, bro, whatever you say. Gotta bounce.
Thank you, doctor For the yet another point of view and theory for future action... I just got bad news from my biological family My mom on the last stage of cancer And that perfectly explains why the last 3 months I felt out of balance She was one that scapegoated me to the ground when no one saw or heard.. Later turned me into parentified teenager I was her confessor, secret keeper, defender and even kinda shrink... Mess of emotions and feelings.. I don't know I will pass this night....
I would get sick if i had to grey rock over time. It would be such a strain since im not a good actress. I understand that some people might not be able to leave. I still think that if you feel you have to grey rock someone its time to leave. I would feel the same if someone grey rocked me
Please be careful here. Appeasing as you described can also be a person who is "taking responsibility" and that is a good thing. If the one being abused is aware and actively taking steps to move on from their narc, there needs to be times to appease, as in taking responsibility for the direction their life is going
I did exactly that then he told me I couldn't pull back because he's not doing OK and when I said you always had a bag packed under his side of the bed
I'm in a situation where I am a victim of these tactics. But the more you explain these things Dr, I think I might be the narcissist. Becuase even though I'm being abused, it looks like I'm being "appeased". And me just trying to stand up for myself, now I'm the one throwing tantrums. I honestly don't know anymore. I'm so tired.
I understand being so tired you can’t lift your head. Read her book. It’s Not You. ❤😂 Keep watching videos. Go slow. Takes awhile to absorb it all and understand. You can do it!
I forgot to say …you feel like you are throwing a tantrum because they don’t listen to you. They gaslight. Twist things. So by the time they are done you are yelling to be heard. Out of frustration. Not narcissism.
This isn’t a relationship at all. It’s simply a toxic situation. There isn’t an ounce of relating here. It’s one sided and unhealthy. The more you give new information the more I believe that they really need to be dealt with and handled accordingly. Self defense is the most important with these people and let them go along with any feelings you had or even wished to have with them. I love myself entirely too much to allow any of this and I know what love is even without having been giving it by someone else . This situation-ship is a complete introduction to hell and everything it will never have to truly offer. I’m not violent unprovoked but provoked I can’t see myself tolerating any of it. They better be ready to receive all of the BS I’m returning and don’t even think about apologizing or anything like that. Keep that same energy and all of that other mess. No love lost because none was found….
There was this couple’s livestream recently where the guy was constantly trying to bait his wife by telling her he was going on some tropic boy’s vacation without her. She wouldn’t flinch and kept saying “okay” or “I don’t care” even when he was pressing her on why she didn’t care. And she meant it; she appeared mentally checked out but not beaten down. It was a beautiful thing to see grey rocking in action.
Boundaries don’t exist unless they are enforced. Narcs never have and never will accept a boundary without a fight. If they say they get it and will respect you in the future, don’t believe them. When they feel like doing something, past promises are instantly forgotten.
Lock your door. They have a key? Either get it back or change the locks. Nobody has the right to enter your home, your supposed safe space, unless you let them in willingly. Install an interior deadbolt. For your own safety.❤❤
Try yellow rocking: it’s gray rocking with a kindly delivery. The trick is to be there and be in conversation with the narcissist, without adding anything of your own substance. No hard questions, no arguments, nothing controversial, don’t try to make them see the other side of anything they say. Just smile and be pleasant, like you’re talking with a person in line at the grocery store. You don’t have to be unpleasant. Just be boring.
Yes, they want you to make them feel important by giving them some kind of energy or some way to control you. They will accept any strong emotion because they can use it against you. They hate indifference because it makes them feel unimportant and it shows that you won’t be manipulated. You can be kind and pleasant, even cheerful, as mentioned above, without being emotionally invested in their reactions.
As I continue to practice these skills (and it does take practice. Caught myself starting to snap off an answer. Shut mouth hard😂) I see him being uncomfortable. When I don’t react he’s puzzled. Or I laugh instead of using words.
