AMD made a terrible flaw with this design... 

A little clarification on the hooks remark at 5:55. If your cooler uses the hooks OR retains the AMD backplate and doesn't replace it, then it should be compatible. Just wanted to clarify that. Not many coolers use their own backplate on AMD. Most AM4 coolers will be just fine but not ALL.

I wish they hadn't worried about cooler compatability and just made the thermal transfer as good as possible.

Hey Jay. NH-D15 (and any Noctua Cooler) works perfectly with AM5, as long as it has the AM4 bracket. I've done all my Ryzen 7000 testing with NH-D15 with cero issues. You just happened to have an older NH-D15. Noctua provides AM4 bracket for free, btw.

Little update for Jay and other viewers. I just bought a Noctua NH-D15 for my 5800x 3d in august. The latest versions come with a diagonally slotted bracket for AM3 or AM4. If you buy new you're good to go. If you buy used, beware because the old ones clearly didn't have the slot on the bracket.

GN is planning to do a regular IHS - lapped IHS - direct die cooling comparison once the der8auer delidding tool arrives. Probably taking off a couple of millimeters from the IHS. According to Igor's Lab (and der8auer) it seems to be 3.42mm thick.

The NH-D15 qualifies for a free mounting kit if you have a version that came out before the AM4 socket war released. The AM4 mounting kit uses the stock rear plate, thus it will work on AM5 as well.

I believe Noctua has an AM5 bracket available now that should make all their stuff compatible. Good news for my next build plan

Is it possible that the extra thickness could also allow for more headroom for vertical stacked dies in the future without having to update the platform?

WHY MUST you make me remember, using the flat head method to put CPU coolers, I will NEVER forget, cracking a motherboard when the flat head slipped off that retention device. Way back in high school when I built my first Athlon 1.4ghz (computer with money earned bagging groceries). IF eVGA wasn't going through it's current issue, I'd love to see KINGPIN play around with some of the ideas Jay mentioned.

I find it interesting that despite the 2mm too thick IHS, that CPU can run that much load and clock at these thermals. I originally wanted to get a Ryzen R7 7700X, but now I'm rather considering a Ryzen 7 7800X3D or something like that early next year because honestly, I intend to game on the system and if that thing is anything like the R7 5800X3D but with the thinned IHS (since 3d cache will make the die thicker anyways), thus compensating slightly for the temperatures, it could be an absolute beast.

I'm curious if the 3D cache is taller and the extra 2mm was actually chosen to accommodate the x3D chips

Optimum Tech put out a fantastic video over undervolting these AMD 7000 series CPUs. I'd love to see that kind of undervolting paired with the delided CPU

It's going to be really interesting to see all the top enthusiasts tackle this issue. If the thermals we're seeing really are because of the thick IHS, i'd have to imagine AMD will have to rethink it if they see similar to better performance with the lower temps.

Noctua always just sends new brackets for old coolers (for free). Got them for 3 AM4 builds

I watched DerBauer's video already, and I think you did a really good job of "lowering the entry level" for viewers of the content with this. You captured his points well, but catered to your audience (less likely to get into the extremes of "enthusiast modding", as well paid full tribute to his work! I'm looking forward to seeing more and more what people do with this platform, going forward, as well as how it inspires AMD to do better ^_^

I recently looked at the EK website, because I like their coolers and other bits; and they have an AM5 specific CPU block - currently in preorder - from the Quantum Velocity2 product line. I have looked at the mounting instructions and it uses the outer 4 holes and the standard AM5 backplate. This block is larger than a Velocity 1 block and actually extends out over where the hook system mounts. Instead of through bolts screwed in from the top/front, it uses an engine headstud type arrangement and you fasten it with a nut on the backplate side of the motherboard.

You can get an AM4 bracket kit from Noctua for the D15. Also, all the new sold D15 come with the good brackets.

7:35 actually they have been saying all along only AM4 coolers that don't use a custom backplate will be compatible, but Jay must have missed that part of the announcement.

I like the coolers with the hooks because they level the cooler contact surface with the CPU contact surface, they do so automatically, applying even pressure all over the contact patch.

I use a corsair AIO which uses a screw-type hook so I'm good for now if I decide to upgrade. I see where Jay is coming from on the mounting mechanisms that use the hooks. Some of them are fairly easy to connect to those hooks, I can see how it's not ideal compared to the 4 mounting posts.

Funfact, you can still use AM2 coolers from the Athlon64 days on a AM5 socket as longs its using clips. Personally I use a AM3 cooler (from a Phenom quad core) on my Ryzen 3 3200G in my HTPC because I had a Noctua fan for it (and it probably cools better, the stockcooler was designed for a 120W CPU and has a lot of copper) . Unfortunately they did change the socket holes between AM3 and AM4 so you can't use Ryzen screw-in stock coolers on Athlon XP for example. Tough you can use the Ryzen 7 clip coolers on them which is kinda funny.

Thank goodness for the JTC block being compatible! I was worried about that cause I have it in my rig and wanted to use it if I upgrade to am5. Thanks for putting my worries to bed Jay!

Jay, this video was extremely helpful for me. I’ve been dealing with overheating issues with my Ryzen 7 5800X CPU. I had an MSI 240 CPU cooler installed. I upgraded to an MSI 360 CPU cooler and moved its location to the front panel instead of a top on my Corsair 4000 D. During installation I followed your advice and double checked all the connection points for the cooling plate to the CPU and it runs fantastic. Thank you so much!

I screwed in some 1.25" M6-32 screws from Lowes in from the bottom for my EK Quantum Velocity. I placed the block down along the screws, added the springs that came with the cooler, and then added two nuts to each screw end to keep tension on the block. Working well so far. Note that the nuts are flush with the tip of the screws, not tightened down on the block frame.

Worth pointing out that with a taller z axis, if they wanted to do 3d v cache on later sku's it would be significantly easier to add. Just something that crossed my mind while watching debuars video

Love the content as always. Entertaining and informative, great combo! As you say, the IHS is a lot thicker, wouldn't lapping a little off the IHS help reduce temps as well ? Obviously need to be careful of the height tolerances and contact with the cooler cold plate.

Man I almost went with your XC8 block when I was trying to get things ready for this generation but wanted to be able to see the coolant being my first water cooled build so went with XC7 instead. Hope I’m good if I end up deciding on AMD. Having a hard time deciding right now.

this video makes me feel significantly better about my deepcool ak620 zero dark purchase (it uses a mount very similar to the NH-U12a) , nice to know it will be usable once i jump from 5000 series to am5 in a year or 2

15:00 NH-D15 has an upgrade kit if your cooler is older than 2019 (it is clearly mentioned on their website), I have the same cooler that I have had since 2017, so with AM4, I had to order that $8 kit called NM-AM4 to make it work! it also has short and long brackets for cooler orientation!

I'm wondering if someone will sell replacement heatspreaders with vaporchambers that fit in the 3mm thick top part

Very helpful video Jay, I now know my EKWB AM4 CPU waterblock (which uses a pre-drilled metal back plate) is NOT compatible with an AM5 motherboard, unless I can drill and tap the 4 holes needed for the AM5 socket retaining mechanism, just checked.

Shout out to Phil, Your cuts are so good. I love when you do the little "office" like zoom in, then the quick cut. Fantastic. Just wanted to give some deserved props on your attention to to detail. If it was Nick, props to you too lol

I think for the NHD-15 you need the nm-am4 mounting kit. Well, i think it's possible they also took some height space for their 3D cache CPU But i think it would have been smarter to increase the internal pin and raise the internal of the cpu to have the core as high inside as possible

Well now I wanna see what Der8auer learned. I'm not planning on moving to AM5 until the 3D Vcache models are out, so hopefully by then his mounting mechanism improvements will also be out.

this makes me wonder if a part of just making the z height a little thicker wasn't just compatability with older coolers, but also to leave extra height room for the upcoming 3D stacking. just so they would have additional room for the cache with a smaller ihs on those skus....

So, I have not watched the Der Bauer direct die cooling video yet. Would you believe that (when available) it would be possible to direct die cool the CPU with a waterblock (when they release)?

Great idea for a video and nice to see your own version of a production cooler block will fit and has very nice quality of life features that still work on AM5.

FAQ: Which Noctua CPU coolers are compatible with AMD AM5? "AM5 (LGA 1718) is AMD’s upcoming socket for its next-generation Ryzen 7000 (Zen 4) series processors. Please refer to our socket compatibility overview in the Noctua Compatibility Centre (NCC) to see which Noctua CPU cooler models support socket AM5 out of the box or via mounting upgrade kits. In short, all Noctua coolers and mounting kits that support AM4 are upwards compatible with socket AM5, except the NH-L9a-AM4 and the NM-AM4-L9aL9i. All Noctua AM4 mountings except the ones of the NH-L9a-AM4 and the NM-AM4-L9aL9i attach to the threads of the standard AM4 stock backplate. Since these backplate threads and their pattern are identical on AM4 and AM5, our AM4 mountings that attach to the standard AMD backplate also support AM5. This means that all SE-AM4 models as well as all Noctua multi-socket coolers purchased since 01/2019 already support socket AM5. Multi-socket coolers purchased before this date that have already been upgraded to AM4 using the NM-AM4 or NM-AM4-UxS kits also require no further upgrades. Older multi-socket coolers that have been purchased before 2019 and have not yet been upgraded to AM4 can be made compatible with AM5 using the NM-AM4 or NM-AM4-UxS upgrade kits. The NH-L9a-AM4 and the NM-AM4-L9aL9i are not compatible with AM5 because they require replacing the standard AMD backplate with a custom one, which isn’t possible on AM5. A dedicated AM5 upgrade kit for NH-L9a, NH-L9a-AM4 and NH-L9i coolers is in preparation." so if you have the AM4 mounting kit you should be good

I have that same screwdriver. I bought mine at Lowes. I love that thing and keep it in my laptop bag at all times. I also have a LTT driver on the way too. The cordless driver works great for rack mounting gear because you normally need to hold the gear in one hand and try to get at least one screw in and a manual driver makes it very difficult.

So crazy idea. One that I hope someone like Jay might try. but what about lapping the IHS by like 2-3 mm and using off the shelf UNC screws on on the coolers that screw into the backplate to adjust the z height to see if we can get better performance/temperatures. expecially since it would be "safer" than delidding and more accessible to average enthusiasts that don't want to ruin the substrate or CPU by accident like derbauer did.,

I never damaged an AMD motherboard with a screwdriver because I could never bring myself to use one to force the mounting clips down (been building PCs since the old Athlon XP days as well). I just spent a bunch of extra time fighting with the clips with my hands. Got my first Noctua cooler (an NH-U12S) a few weeks ago and fell in love with how much easier it was to install, even compared to other brands of aftermarket coolers I've used before.

But if they didn't make coolers compatible, people would be screaming that now you have to buy a new cooler - which would probably not be the case, but you'd need an AM5 compatibility set. It was a good time to do it, but before launch a lot of people were worried about cooler compatibility. It's sort of damned if you do and damned if you don't. Also I do remember AMD saying that coolers without custom backplate would be incompatible. Though it was easy to miss in all "most AM4 coolers will be 100% compatible" hype that I've seen.

I found this out the hard way recently. Ended up buying a AM5 Short Backplate and the Thermalright AM5 CPU Contact Frame for Secure Frame Kit Anti-Bending Buckle Black. All so i could run a basic waterblock

could you drill the holes into an EK bracket and tap them ? Or does the shape not line up for the needed placement ?

I wonder if the reason why they designed it like this is because of the upcoming Zen4 3D. The v-cache sits on top, and while Zen3 v-cache was done in a way that didn't affect overall z height on AM4, maybe on Zen4 it will affect z height. So in X3D Zen4 processors they will just use a different IHS and it'll end up being thinner than regular Zen4 IHS. Theorizing of course. But it's plausible.

There was a similar issue with the initial release of LGA 1700 where the standoffs were not the exact height that they needed to be. The Z-axis is different on LGA 1200 versus LGA 1700.

great video! one nitpick, direct die may not always be better, there are probably some edge cases with air coolers. in addition to temperature delta being the primary factor in heat transfer, there's also surface area to consider. If the IHS was properly thin enough, then the thermal diffusion rate from the die to the IHS becomes very fast. Since heat pipes are not effective under a certain diameter you can only fit so many, and heat pipes are far better thermal conductors than a block of copper. Having a proper IHS there to quickly spread the heat in a larger area, and then traversing the TIM > bottom of cooler > into heat pipe is likely a faster pathway than going from die > bottom of cooler > heat pipes farthest away. There's effectively more copper material between the die and those far heat pipes. An air cooler will be more performant with all heat pipes at a higher temperature, even if the idle temperatures are higher due to the additional layers of IHS and TIM. You could probably do the math and figure out how crappy your TIM and surface mating has to be before using a spreader becomes less effective. No clue how to work those equations though.

The D15 uses secufirm2, the same as the NH-U12A, you should be able to use the adapters from the NH-U12A on the D15 (the current version of the D15 already comes with them). If you have an old D15 you can ask Noctua to give you the adapters for AM4/AM5 for free.

I was planning on waiting for the 3d to come out to make my upgrade choice and this video make me happy that I am doing that. hopefully everything is settled by then

Regarding AMD backplates and EK blocks, I'm pretty sure my current setup has my EK standoffs straight into Asrock's backplate. The hole spacing and threads were the same so i just used the stock backplate. I don't know if the same would work with AM5 though.

ok, serious question because i have a 7950x, where can i get this IHS shaving kit and the tools to utilize it and this mounting bracket for aio's/coolers in general? cause i game on my system also. I went with the standard x variant for the multi-thread horsepower (also the x3d chips were not out yet), but i know i can get better single to 8 core results and this would help immensely. it would also make any curve optimizer setting i place way more effective and stable.

hey Jay,what is that plate where u put the mobo on for testing,because i always use a bench.thx

Hey Jay, not sure if your reference to the few degree difference was technically accurate. I believe der8auer was discussing the difference between the standard conductonaut and the version he was using which is preproduction. I think it is therefore difficult to separate the impact of liquid metal vs direct-die at this time. Can't wait to see your testing!

I actually have AM5 with the Arctic 360 AiO and the Arctic offset Mount. Like this it works really good

anyone know if the be quiet dark rock pro 4 cooler works well on a 7700x? thanks in advance!

Bought the Thermalright AM5 Secure frame (black) for my 7800X3D. With the Lian li Galahad II Trinity Inf 360, and used the TF7 paste that came with the Thermalright bracket. Stress tested the system for some hours, and cpu goes 82/83 tops. While gaming 70/75.

I'm thinking the thicker IHS is for the future. If they plan to keep the socket for a few it gives them room to have taller dies later on and keep compatibility.

The first thing that immediately came to mind the first time I seen the IHS design of this line was that it is just ridiculously too thick which is likely part of the thermal issue but anyway it is impressive once delided how far the temps drop.

I would be curious what would happen if you put a Cooler Master 212 air cooler on one of the new 7000 series CPUs. How would the performance change and would it be able to keep the CPU cool?

Hope this helps... According to Noctua the D15 had been shipped with an AM5 (and AM4) compatible kit, since Jan 2019, that's on their website. The older ones obviously don't have the correct kit, like the one you've got. I bought the chromax black version of the D15 which they say is compatible. Some clarification maybe needed. Either way Noctua are offering free kits for those older versions that are not compatible, or you can just buy one.

JayzTwoCents I think the best test for comparing the thickness of the IHS would be to sand it down 2MM so it leaves the same factory thermal interface between the die and the IHS. The only variable in this case would be the flatness of the stock IHS so maybe do a stock test along with a lapped test and an overlapped 2mm test. If I had the hardware id try it myself.

I'm thoroughly expecting for the 8000 series CPUS that all of the current AIOs will still work but there will be some sort of adapter kit because the IHS will be thinner. Thinking about my h170i all Corsair would have had to do would be make a set of screws that are slightly shorter than the elite retention kit that comes with the newer Corsair AIOs.

It's cool many will offer free kits though. I take it height wise and cold plate covering dies will be fine, though new AM5 designed coolers with new mounts and better aligned cold plate would be more optimal. As I wait to see X3D I plan to get a new AM5 cooler anyway.

Just throwing it out there - I've been running the Crosshair Hero Dark since it launched - still slaps to this day. Love to see it in videos.

Yes Tech City, experimented with under-volting a 7950X. I found the results impressive to say the least. It does seem that AMD and Intel are just add voltage to achieve speed.

There's a lot of Coolers on am4 that use the backplate but not the hooks. You take those off and screw into the backplate. Those are perfectly compatible with am5

i just replaced a corsair aio that the pump failed and replaced it with an uphere heat sink and boy do those need alot of pressure to snag the plastic hook. i never use a screw driver. i just kept doing a lot of hand and finger exersises over the years. now i can push them on with no problem. doing push ups on your fingers helped the most 😃

Quality video. Am intrigued to know what backplane you're using to mount test Motherboards onto instead of a test bench.

A benefit of a thicker IHS is that it is less likely to warp. LGA 1700's warping IHS problem probably would not be as bad if it was thicker. As for the attached backplate, one of the most annoying thing is trying to keep the AM4 backplate in place while trying to attach a cooler to it if it is already in a case. The attached backplate does make mounting in a installed motherboard much easier.

I'm wondering if they are somehow planning on making the next generations CPU's taller in which case the taller ihs could just be a stopgap to insure longer socket compatibility. 3d v-cache maybe?

hi I wanted to know if the deepcool assassin 3 can be installed on the am5 socket because I saw that included are the brackets the small ones

I thought the 2 or 3 degrees that was mentioned in Der8auer video was because he was using a different Not For Sale yet Liquid Metal, and the 20 Degrees Temperature difference was due to the Fact that he did Direct Die Cooling - There wasnt a mention of Temperature with IHS but he did say it wouldnt help having a thick IHS

Jay. Have anyone considered that the 2mm of the IHS might be there until the 3D cache models come out? That would allow for bit thicker silicon instead having the problems 5800X3D has?

This might have been said/asked already. It is inevitable that a 3DX version of the new 7000 series CPU's will be released, was the extra thickness already put into the IHS so it can be thinned when the 3DX part is put on top of the die keeping the same height as it is now?

Do you think the thermal take pacific mx2 ultra will work on AM5? I know they came out with a bracket for it but I think it requires changing the entire plate.

The heatkiller IV what i have kicking around in a box, since threadripper, is compatible with AM5 because its uses standoffs wich screw in to the original backplate on the AM4 mountingkit. Not all custom waterblocks are incompatable, more like most of the EK waterblocks are crap.

The thicker IHS for the first AM5 CPUs may simply be to account for the upcoming CPUs that have a bunch 3D V-cache stacked on top. AMD had to thin out the Zen 3 CCD and cache module in the 5800X3D to make it fit. I can imagine that having to shave off part of the silicon to make things fit isn't ideal.

I would also be super interested in hearing about the thinner IHS test. Because having 2mm of thickness purely for the sake of backwards compatibility seems like a terrible idea. Honestly it seems far more reasonable for them to have released a spec for the mount to the motherboard manufacturers on how to raise the socket 2mm and say "this is a thing that will allow AM4 cooler compatibility" and either make it an optional thing that motherboard manufacturers can adopt if they so desire or make it a required thing so they can say "and AM5 is compatible with AM4 coolers*"

@JayzTwoCents What do you think, could it be somehow possible that there might be a revision of the new CPUs with an IHS wich is only as thick as it requires, "ignoring" the requirement of compatibility to AM4 or maybe some kind of aftermarket product to replace the IHS with a thinner one, for the folks which might be a bit scared about exposing the DIE itself?

@JayzTwoCents try using a ryzen 3000 or 5000 IHS on the ryzen 7, would that for debauer be the test, instead of find ing something that has the thickness of the 3000,5000 ihs ?

I'm waiting for the crazy cooling experiments on these chips by Jay

The 20C drop that der8auer saw suggests that the heat spreader didn't do its job (spreading heat) very well - 20C matches up pretty well with the thermal gradient a 4.5mm thick 142mm^2 copper chunk would have at 275W (about 21.8K assuming 400W/mK thermal conductivity)

I was dealing with an older Enermax cooler on my 1st gen Ryzen. My solution was to slightly sand down one of the hooks to make it easier to clip over.

I've ordered the 7950X, and I'm about to wait for the release of the Die Guard from Der8auer to use it properly and with Conductonaut LM. A brand new NH-D15 is already waiting on the table. Only thing that scares me is to delid it, but I'll have to be brave enough to do it anyway, cause there's no way I'll keep a CPU running for years with permanent overheating values...

Glad I'm waiting to really fully build my new system for a few months as I wait for some things figured out.

You have to think about the future v-cache models! The tolerance stack up gets pretty tight if you don't have the extra thickness to be able to remove later from the IHS. They made it work with AM4, but it was a limited run. I think making the IHS thicker has to be considered as a potential learning from the 5800X3D launch.

Jayz, your videos are the bomb!! jayz, I just bought a new msi mpg x670e carbon mobo and I bought the corsair h150i icue lcd liqid cooler... I saw where you said the back plate doesnt come off on the mobo....am I still going to be able to use these two together?? Curtis from Newport Rhode Island... thx jayz your the best!

i mounted the velocity 1 block on my am5. Dont no if the block is mounted perfectly flat and had it stresstest in aida extreme at 83 C.. runing 5.2 on auto OC on an msi board. waching this video its doing 35 C.

but for normal users they probably would just use the 105 watt mode, if most of the media showing how to use it, but rn seems most medias doesn't show off the 105 eco mode

D15 has come with am4 mounting hardware for a long while now and got the hardware if it didn't come with them if you contacted them. The one shown here is an extremely old one (before they started doing the black even) before am4 really took off to have the hardware included.

It's been a while since I've had to take mine off, but I think the NZXT Kraken Z73 uses the same mounting ring with built-in screws as the JTC waterblock. I guess that means it'll also be AM5 compatible, right?

Anyone know if the cooler master ml240l will work for am5? I know the ml240l v2 works but am unsure about the "v1" so to speak

I'm very curious to see what temps you'd get if you gradually thinned down the IHS. Granted that would make mounting a pain in the rear end, but would be a great experiment.

So, Jay is experiencing the "cutting edge purchasers" issues that he talked about in a previous video... that these new chips + plus new socket: they're going to come with bugs and some issues which AMD will need to sort out before the next update release (the 3D cache ones next year)

what good is a bracket if cant remove the back plate if the cooler uses their own back plate or nonhook type ?

I am sure when 3D V cache is integrated, they will shrink the IHS. That or they will engineer a way to keep the same IHS thickness, but dramatically lower the resistance

Here's a thought: Could AMD incorporate a vapor chamber inside the IHS and make the top of the IHS copper? Perhaps they could release two SKUs of each CPU. A normal IHS version and an upgraded IHS like just mentioned. I'm not an expert in coolers and heatsinks, so I have no idea if this could be feasible.

der8auer's direct die mechanism is going to be amazing and also a great improvement in terms of temps

did that with the screwdriver, but never scratched the motherboard, some times i thought i did how hard it hit it when it sprung out. That was a long time ago also learned how to do with without the risk of giving my motherboard a new facelift i would prefer to keep my cpu at the room temp, but its something impossible with how all gpu and cpu use spam as much power into their products to get a bit more performance since they wont optimize to use as power possible with highest performance so in turn would heat up less, nvidia were going in the right way with 1000 series but they scrapped it

NH-D15 no long brackets? I have the long brackets installed on my 5900X build, maybe yours went missing. It's a good thing I had the long brackets since the short brackets conflicted with some motherboard components.