There are so many internet and RU-vid commandos, most of them don't have a clue what they are talking about, THIS GUY IS NOT ONE OF THEM! I've watched several of his videos so far and he has been 100% spot on with everything I've seen. Careful, considered and accurate with what he is saying, and his methods are valid as well. For the shooter seeking accurate information, this guy is one to watch and learn.
Probably less padding than someone wearing a heavy winter jacket, button down shirt and t-shirt or undershirt, really. Besides, it's a worst case scenario test. If it performs in that, it will perform without.
I love your format and great/informative review and testing. I've used C.D. for years and have always been confident carrying these. Thanks for your time spent testing.
Thanks for this review/test. My girlfriend just got the Shield 9mm and we were looking for something that works well from a 3 inch barrel. This seems to be it. Love all your videos. :)
I have this in 5 of my handguns. My EDC and home defense handguns. It's perfect for the intent. Expands every time, large wound channel, penetrates the right amount, and dependable loads. Look at the recorded speeds and depth. Each bullet was moving at almost the same exact speed, and penetrated almost the same depth and straight line. That is proof of quality control production, consistent and dependable construction. Look at other rounds and often the fps varies quite a bit, and some go straight, some veer up and out, etc. Hornady makes a bullet you can count on, and that is priority #1. It has to go bang.
Nice job, very thorough. I have this in my S&W Shield which is very similar in ballistics to the Sig that you tested with in your video. It is good to know that this is a good choice in self defense ammo. Keep up the good work.
Thanks for doing these videos. I am switching guns from an XDS 3.3" barrel to a Sig 229 3.9". I'm also looking at changing my ammo after some critical failures I've had with Critical Defense in my XDS. It may be specific to my gun but I've tried multiple things to keep this from happening. That little polymer tip that sticks out is a little rubbery and during firing it occassionally, (1-2 out of every magazine), gets stuck on the lower feed ramp. And when I say stuck its a bear to get it out. You can't pull the slide back because that round is half in and half out of the mag. You can't eject the mag for the same reason. I've found that if you quickly move the slide back and forth you get a little bit more movement in it until you get it into the locked position. Then you can stick your finger in there and push the round back into the mag and try it again and it generally loads. I have tried polishing my feed ramp until it's like a mirror, putting a touch of oil on the feed ramp, and even putting a tiny drop of oil on the tip of each polymer tip during loading and none of this helped. After speaking to a police officer about this he called this a ( I believe this is what he called it) a level 4 failure but the worst kind you can get and he said what they teach officers to do in this scenario is to slam the grip on a hard surface and hard ad you can trying to dislodge whatever is in there. I haven't tried that yet since I just talked to him last week. But that very well may make this shell load after getting wacked for mis-behaving. Anyway, I'm switching ammmo since I lost all my confidence in this since this has been happening on too regular of a basis. I liked your demo of HST and I'm thinking that may be the direction that I go. I have not tried shooting this out of my P229 but probably will next time I'm at the range. Thanks again for doing this I find this the best review of ammo that you can read/watch.
Thank you for these videos! There's so much information, and so little actual data available to us gun owners. I like to tailer my bullet choices to the specific role i have for my particular guns, and even depending on situations. I live in a condo, so overpenetration is huge for me at home, but out side in a bad area, stopping power is big, etc... Anyway that you a bunch. Can you think about testing some frangible home defense rounds, like from sinter fire? I like that they won't go through walls, or bounce off walls in the city. I'm as concerned with not hurting innocent bystanders, as I am with protecting myself.
Thank you for your videos. Definitely influenced my choice for my Shield carry pistol. I was using the critical duty +p but now I switched to their defense round. I would like to see a video of the +p duty round through a full sized pistol. You're the only tester I have seen that shoots multiple rounds for a better median. Thank you.
These videos are a great help. I'm just now starting to conceal carry and these videos have been a goldmine of information for me and I'm sure they have been for other compact pistol owners too. Thank you.
to: Roy Lindsey These Critical Defenses didn't need to be adjusted. They didn't "bounce back" like the HST's did -- and that's not a fault of the ammunition, it's a property of the synthetic gel that I used, sometimes bullets bounce backwards, sometimes they don't. That's largely why in my more recent tests I haven't used the clear gel and instead use only the organic gel. As to your question of Critical Defense or HST in a 709 -- I think either would be an excellent choice. They were both excellent performers.
+tom kirk I wonder if the denim test was conducted at a different time than the bare gel. Temperature, humidity, etc could weigh in... Especially since the difference is only in the ballpark of 40fps on average
Awesome! I've got Critical Defense in my DB9 and it looks like it'll be staying there, unless you find a 9mm that consistently does ~15". Glad you've changed up the format to include both the bare gel and denim test in one video if the bullet passes the former.
I carry critical defense in my M&P Shield, I am glad to see your tests they are reassuring. I was going to switch to HST but these are okay for now. I would be interested to see how the 100 grain critical defense lite performs with its reduced recoil many people may be able to put more shots on target if the ballistics are acceptable.
I dont understand the need for reduced recoil 9mm rounds, 9mm is not a heavy round to begin with... lighter kick than a .45 and certainly less snappy than a .40 Put that into a short barrel handgun and your rounds are moving real slow.
Reduced recoil would be good for elderly people, those will injuries or generally weaker people. People come from all walks of life and still need to defend themselves.
Looks like I'll be trying these out in my pt709! I currently have it loaded with critical duty and definitely don't want over penetration. Thanks for this series of tests.
What I like about the round is the light recoil and minimal ( relative) muzzle flash. If possible, one way to help select the best I would in the finals is add those 2 factors. Most crime occurs at night or the dark and IMO a 2nd shot is critical
I love all of your reviews. They are exactly what we would do if we had the ability to do it. I would like it if you could review the Hornady Critical Defense Lite. I am considering using this for my wife to carry in her M&P 9 Shield. I believe this round may be perfect for some women and others that are recoil sensitive. I am expecting less penetration and less recoil due to reduced pressure. My question would be if it is still an acceptable performer for her to carry?
Critical duty is only better if you know you will be needing to shoot through glass! If that’s the case there is nothing better than duty! I love how the expansion shreds off! The damage that would do would make a surgeon say “Sorry fella, nothing I can do to save you cause I’m off in 1 hour and it would take me many hours to get out all the shrapnel from your body soon to be corpse. ( the pedals are meant to break off and cause insane damage)
Federal 124gr HST seems to be the most consistent of all the ammo test videos online. Everyone seems to have the same results. 15-16 inches of penetration, 100% weight retention, full expansion and uniformed expansion. I take ALL of these test in ballistic gel with a grain of salt because it is not living flesh and bone. MAC over at Military Arms Channel has put a Lehigh Defense Xtreme Penetrator round through the shoulder of a mid sized hog. And it did not go in and out the other side. Even his test is flawed but it says a lot more to me then ballistic gel. If you can afford it, get a hog carcass and test your own ammo.
I can't thank you enough; these are invaluable reviews, especially as I often carry ~ 3" barrel. Have you done a similar quest for longer barrel (but compact) pistols like the Glock 19 or equivalent. Alternately, what could I "guesstimate" is a velocity gain/inch for longer barrels?
I haven't done 4" testing, because lots of that already exists -- such as tests by Doctor Gary Roberts (docgkr), or fellow youtuber tnoutdoors9. You can guess what the additional velocity will be, but you can't necessarily just presume that a longer barrel will give better performance, because the faster the bullets travel, the bigger they expand, which means they are harder to push through the body or gel, and so what can actually happen is you may get LESS penetration from the longer-barrel gun. So you should always look for proper, competent testing from folks who know how to test ammo, before relying on it to be a proper performer from the type of gun you're using.
ShootingTheBull410 Nothing at all against those other testers, but your tests are comprehensive and very through. The way you review is outstanding, and it would be extremely invaluable if you did conduct tests with 4" to 4.5" barrels, when you can find the time.
ShootingTheBull410 You're certainly deserving. I think I can say this for many who watch your videos. The depth and ridiculously high standards is really what I think most of us want to see b/c when it comes to saving my life and those of my family, I am quite ridiculous. I want something I can have complete confidence in carrying. I took the Critical Duty out of my wife's Shield b/c of your tests, so what you do really does matter. Thank you and please keep it up!
Sorry I'm so far behind the times! Don't spend much time on RU-vid. I picked up a CZ scorpion with faux suppressor and 16" barrel. The 135gr +p is unbelievably accurate in the scorpion! I have killed two deer and a few hogs with 1 shot! Most was around 50yrds. One deer was a little over 100yrds. Hornady is so far the best 9mm ammo I have found. A little pricey but, you usually get what you pay for!
thanks for your review I have the same gun have been looking for ammo and you seem to be the only person reviewing ammo for it so big thanks to you brother!!
Should of gotten these over the critical duty, alas the critical defense has been out of stock for the last few weeks. Back to gold sabers I go. I hope you test em soon because I am hoping they don't over penetrate or I will be one sad panda bear.
good video... hey, #3 in the denim shot..went long because it looks like it went high to low... and thru some of the void of the PWC from #1 ... less resistance is my take. its amazing how they look alike... DUTY/DEFENSE... but how much different they really are from a shorter barrel.... nice work...
Hornady’s website for the critical defense their stats show it used in a 4” barrel. Most carry pistols like your Sig are 3”. That one inch difference is massive in ballistic terms. Its weird they say its for concealed carry guns yet fail to make them for under 4” barreled guns.
I carry Defense in my LC9 and Duty in my P239. I reckon that I'll switch the P239 to Defense as it only has a 3/5" barrel. Thanks for doing the testing.
Nice videos. Looking forward to the series, but why aren't you measuring the diameter of expansion? That seems like a fairly important measurement to leave off...
ShootingTheBull410 Sorry for the confusion. I was referring to the diameters from the denim test. I saw the ones from the bare gel, but you just said the rounds expanded "huge" in the denim test.
Wow -- just reviewed it, and you're right -- the individual bullet diameters aren't listed. Don't know how that slipped through the cracks; my normal formula is to put the diameters in the bullet examination segment. I'll try to dig up the bullets and get their measurements added in the annotations...
ShootingTheBull410 Thanks! Of all the rounds I would think the difference between bare gel and denim would be fairly minimal with these. Thanks again for the awesome work! I'm glad I found this channel to help fill my Tnoutdoors9 void (hopefully he'll be better soon and we'll have another great ammo test channel).
I'm thinking of doing a second review from a longer barrel just to clear Critical Duty's name. I believe it's a good round from a 4"+ barrel, just not suitable for a 3" barrel.
I bought some critical defense in late 2009 in 9mm to try out. I did not try it out untill I got a LC9 last year. I got 2 bad primers out of 10 rounds I tested. I have some ammo that is over 15 years like Hydro shok that was shot from same gun, with out a problem. The bad news is Hornady did not want me to send ammo back or make good on it. They said with out the lot # they could not tell me why they did not fire even after a 2nd strike. I am highly disappointed with Hornady but,my .32 NAA works %100 of the time with their custom 60 gr. I never had a bad primer on any other top shelf defensive round, and hope I never do again. I store all my ammo the same in a dry box in plastic ammo boxes not in cardboard box they come in.
Like your videos. Great job. In your .380 testing you said the Precision One HXT were the top performers. Will you test that round in 9mil anytime soon. I have changed out my Glock 42 ammo based on those tests. I would like to do the same for my 9mm if the results are the same. Keep up your good work. I have watched every video I could find.
One way to look at the copper pieces braking off is that these may flew lose in the wound cavity and hit an artery which could help stop the assailant.
OK, this channel and these videos are bullshit. What is bullshit about it? Glad you asked, I'll explain. It is bullshit that: A. I didn't find this channel any sooner than about 5 minutes ago. B. You just made me change my carry ammo that I was sure was the best. I just hit the subscribe button, keep up the good work, new friend.
If you actually read up on the critical duty and critical defense, critical duty is not designed specifically for Law Enforcement. Critical duty is designed for full size barrels (slower burning powder) where as critical duty has a faster burning powder designed for shorter barrels...
I also have a P938. I recently shot a box of the Critical Defense, Critical Duty +P, and TAP. All fed reliably but the Defense was a little more pleasant to shoot. Glad I found your review and I agree for now that I will be carrying the Defense. I also recently picked up a G43 and have found the same comfort. Also did you have the trigger finger pain/rub with the 938? I did.
Bill McGann No, I haven't had any issues with the 938... certainly nothing with trigger finger pain. I don't know if there's anything different about the many variations of the 938 that might account for our different experiences? Mine is a "Nightmare" version, if that helps...
Hay just checking out this video again and the temp stretch cavity on the Critical Defense was off the chart REALLY IMPESSIVE maybe in some videos you could disect the block and show us the stretch cavity, Guess I will just will have to go back and view the HTS video but here it looks MASSIVE would defintly not want to be on the other end of that round!!!!!!
Critical Defense expands a little bigger than HST, and yes the temporary cavity is big. But, remember, in handguns the temporary cavity isn't typically a source of damage. It stretches tissue out, but most body tissue is flexible enough that it just stretches right back. In rifles, the temporary cavity can get so large that it exceeds the tissue's ability to stretch, so it ends up ripping -- and that's a major factor in why rifles are so powerful and so destructive. But with handguns, it's not any significant wounding factor. There are a few things that the stretch cavity can damage (like the liver; it's not stretchy at all) but most body tissue isn't harmed by a handgun's temporary stretch cavity.
I will give Hornady CD a 2nd try with a newer box I here they had a batch of "off primers" back in 09-10. I want too know if you ever had any problem with the rubber tip hanging up on feed ramp. Wilson Combat says the only ammo the won't guarantee reliability with is CD because of rubber tip. I heard grumblings on the net, but I never had this happen.
Nice video! I'm new to the 9mm conceal and carry family. I always carried either my 45 or 40 cal. I just got the HK VP9 and love it! Would you recommend this ammo for my new conceal and carry? Thanks!
Big52 Hurt Possibly, but not necessarily. It's great from a 3" barrel, but from the 4" barrel of your HK there may be better choices. Perhaps Critical Duty, perhaps HST or Winchester Defend.
I carry this in my ruger and shoot white box at the range. Shot placement is key bottom line so I won’t say I prefer it over hst or gold dot People are in their graves from pellet guns and 22s Practice Practice Practice 9mm is great defensive round low recoil and inexpensive
I have my Sig 938 and three great choices: Hornady Critical Defense , Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel 124 gr +p, or Federal 124 gr HST. Hard to know which to choose.
Thanks for another great vid. Been carrying Critical Defense in my Shield, and carrying Gold Dot instead of Critical Defense in my BG380 thanks to your 380 roudn up. I just can't bring myself to go with unreliable expansion of the federal or the other brands I am not familiar with.
I totally understand, that's why in the finals of the Ammo Quest .380 I tried to present the best performer regardless of round, and the best performers among the big brand names. I knew that there could be some reticence on choosing a smaller brand as the winner, but -- hey, it was the winner, and it did use a major brand name for bullets (Hornady XTP) and a major brand name for brass (Starline) so it wasn't like it was a total unknown. Even so, I thought that the general performance of the Fiocchi's and Hydra Shoks was good enough to give them the share of the title. However, if you want the best performance among big brand names that consistently expanded reliably 100% of the time, then your choice of the Gold Dots was probably appropriate. I'd always recommend at least 12" of consistent penetration, but if you place higher priority on consistency of bullet expansion, the Gold Dots were the choice for that. Fortunately we're going to have many more acceptable choices in 9mm, I can already tell from the tests I've conducted that it's not going to be a case of finding only one acceptable round, there are many.
ShootingTheBull410 Thanks for the response. I value expansion more than penetration in the .380 because that is a gun that I would be shooting in a defensive public setting -- not a bedside gun by any means. So, if i were to need to use it, and hit an assailant but the round failed to expand and overpenetrated, I would be liable for anything (or anyone) else that got hit. Of course, the #2 rule is "know your target and what's beyond" but I do feel confident that if I were to hit the assailant with a Gold Dot, it would expand, and would not over penetrate. In a carry 380, I'll sacrifice an inch of penetration for reliable expansion any day of the week. What are your thoughts on this? A second question for the 9mm tests: I personally would be afraid of a round that consistently penetrated near the 18" mark in a carry pistol. I realize that you need to be able to penetrate through an arm or hand and still have enough power to wreak havoc in center mass, but what if you aren't shooting through an arm or hand and just hit chest with a round that penetrates 17" (but does expand), wouldn't the bullet exit that person and be capable of injuring someone beyond the target? I realize build of assailant and clothing is probably key here, so let's say an average sized person in a tee-shirt. Are there any cases where this has happened in real life?
Cauhauna Hi Cauhauna, I think both your questions would be addressed by one of my recent blog articles, at shootingthebull.net/blog/what-about-bullet-overpenetration/ In that article I explore the question about overpenetration, and about whether bullets remain hazardous after penetrating through a body. If that doesn't answer your questions, let me know and I'll go into more detail.
ShootingTheBull410 I just read that article and several others at your site. You make more sense than most gun 'experts.' I especially liked the one about the perfect home defense weapon.
Nice, Critcal Defence going back in my Kahr (where the critical Doody was) for now. Anxiously awaiting the rest of the series, but it will nee to be a real good performer to make a switch. P.S. anybody want some Critical Defense .380 rounds? ;-)
10 rounds of Underwood 147gr +P Speer Uni-core incoming to your address. (unicore = gold dot, but Speer sells the bullet only for reloading as the Uni-Core)
The bullet comes out looking ugly as sin, but this ammo has what I want for home self defense. A good stopping power bullet that doesnt overpenetrate. I want it to be effective but optimize the penetration, and I think we just saw that.
Thank you for your video. I am shopping for personal defense rounds for my PT111 G2 with 3.2" barrel. I notice that you have many videos on this subject. What were the top 3 brands in your Ammo Quest? Thanks!
What happened to the 'best self-defense system on the planet being a 125gr. .357 hollow pt. being shot from a 4" bbl'? Are the threats less violent today than 25yrs ago? The threats are bigger & more unruly than 25 yrs. ago, so what's different?
Critical Duty +P works better in short barrel guns, although CD was designed to operate out of 'duty' length larger guns. Speer's Gold Dot 'Short Barrel' also works very well.
+ShootingTheBull410 Love watching your videos very helpful. I just ordered 2 boxes of these from Cable's. I have the sccy cpx-2 and it has a 3.1 inch barrel will that hurt the penetration
also gotta take into account bone, different muscle density, organs, all that. which ballistic gel doesnt do. so that 12 inches of penetration will probably be half that in real world scenarios.
I just watched your review again of the Federal 124gr HST and I saw where you shift the bullet penetration. I was wondering why you did not do that for the Hornady or did you and did not show when you did it? It would be nice to know if the difference in weight between the two would make any difference but Hornady only makes 115gr. I'm only curious because I carry the Hornady 165gr critical defense in my 40 and it seems to expand well. But I'm thinking the HST might be the way to go in my 709. Thanks
Good vid, but I have a question. I watched this and the one you did on the ARX Inceptor round (.380), and these performed roughly "similar." So I'm wondering if there's any justification for carrying a small 9mm rather than a .380 for EDC if they have fairly close results in the gel? Thanks!
If you only looked at this 9mm test maybe you could draw that conclusion but look at his 124 HST standard pressure test, no small 380 will perform that consistently and optimally as did the hst.
It is true that a few .380 rounds did penetrate equally deeply. But, the damage wasn't equivalent because the 9mm expanded to quite a bit bigger. The average good-performing .380 expanded to about .42", these Critical Defenses were more like .54". That makes a big difference in the amount of tissue destroyed; the 9mm Critical Defense rounds destroy about 67% more tissue than the .380 rounds do. I was impressed with how well a .380 could do, and it can penetrate deep enough to meet the FBI/IWBA requirements, but we shouldn't confuse it with the 9mm, which is a significantly more powerful cartridge.
ShootingTheBull410 "the 9mm Critical Defense rounds destroy about 67% more tissue than the .380 rounds do." And this is the metric that matters. .380 subcompacts are not so much smaller nor have so much less recoil than 9mm to make worthwhile such a huge difference in performance. To make matters worse, .380 is more expensive than 9mm, meaning $100 worth of training with .380 will not go as far.
There is much truth in this. To me, the main purpose of a .380 (in today's world) is to get the smallest gun size possible -- hence my testing with the TCP micro-pistol. If you can afford more gun size, I think that additional size should be spent on a 9mm, as the cartridge is just significantly more powerful.
I can see applications for the .380 where the choice is between that and carrying nothing. For some women because of the differences in wardrobe it could come down to that choice. However, some of the micro 9's these days are not that much bigger...
Gregory Vee I totally agree. Whenever someone has the choice, I would always recommend the 9mm, it's a much more powerful cartridge. And the ammo is less expensive too. What appeals to me about the tiny .380 is that it's really small, noticeably and significantly smaller than my Sig 938 or the Kahr PM9. So it can go places the other ones won't; it fits in my jeans pockets where my Sig has no chance of doing so. In the end I think the .380 pocket pistol, with the right ammo, is a capable performer. It is infinitely better than being unarmed! But it will never be on par with a 9mm.
Hello I subscribed to your channel I would really like to no the winner on 9mm ammo out of a 3 inch barrel if not I would like to no a good defense round that hit about 14 and 15 inches in both tests also no under penetration or over penetration please
Brother I have to say your videos are awesome !!! Love the quality editing and the graphics behind. Very smart clear speech, and we can notice your excitement about what you do ! I am a fan and subscriber. Now what about you add a new dimension !!!! Loading your very own defensive ammo. I don't see any one doing it, at least trying to duplicate some of the great ammo you consider great ! Or any ammo with short comings that can be improved to become Great ! I am a fan ! And subscriber !,,
