You set the benchmark when it comes to ammo reviews. Very professional and straight to the point. As far as the ammo goes, this one is def a no go for me. HST’s and gold dots are still the go to.
@@DirtyDan1 “Bigger”. Yea sorry not impressed. You may get a slightly larger wound channel but it’s not worth spending defensive ammunition money on target practice results. There’s no justifying using this for protection unless it happens to be the only option, which it’s not.
Greetings from Morgan Co, Tn. I wasn't aware of you back in the day, but I'm glad you're making videos somewhat regularly again. You're a valued asset to our community. Thank you.
Nice improvement in clarity of display through the block. Always have appreciated our content both before the break and after. Thanks for your hard work and precise testing
I did make a comment here but just deleted all of it. Something to the effect of products that BY DESIGN underperform relative to penetration standards. Too much to unpack on the topic. I have no doubt that everyone will continue from where I parked it!
I live in middle Tennessee too and I've found this ammo in local sporting good stores in my town. I like this ammo well and have been carrying some too, I do still like Hornady's critical defense/duty ammo better though for all defensive applications.
I've been watching you for years. In my opinion you're the best, most consistent and detailed ammo reviewer I've ever seen. I pick my carry ammo based on your testing. Thank you.
Kentucky ballistics did a review on this ammo. All her did was shoot into a barrel of water because he knew the deal with them not expanding. With that being said I carry this ammo in .380. might burn it off at the range soon
Thanks for making these tests so that we can all be more informed in our purchase decisions. I always recommend your videos when people ask me about carry ammo!
As always great content. I think everyone will agree that you’ve saved the shooting public a wallet full of money. That and the aggravation of testing so many self defense rounds. Everyone is glad you’re back doing what is appreciated so many. Thanks.
I chose to stop carrying the Winchester Ready Defense 9mm +P based on the video, low level of gel travel: 11" ⬇️. I went to Critical Duty +P 124gr 9mm in my Walther PDP Compact & M&P 2.0.
Great video as always. This again is one of those “better ain’t always better” rounds. Stick to Federal HST, Speer Gold Dot, or Ranger T. Not only are these proven in testing in labs but on the street as well.
Sig v crown 124gr standard pressure is a contender in that category as well as federal punch..... But as the addage goes... Test what you carry, shoot what you carry, train with what you carry, and try your honest best to avoid the situation that puts it all to the test...
We should do a better job of punishing companies who advertise self defense ammunition velocities with ridiculous barrel lengths. I can’t even think of a 9mm handgun with a 6 inch barrel, and most everyone carries a gun with a 3ish inch barrel.
@@nikobellic3526 what percentage of people do you think have Glock 17L’s and USP experts, and what percentage carry them? There are long slide versions of 1911’s too, but it’s pointless to even talk about as the numbers are so small.
The only way you are going to get manufacturers to list realistic velocities is if an international standard is instituted. Until every single ammo manufacturer is forced to test in the same barrel length and configuration no one is going to be the first to give up sales based on package listed velocities. The velocities on the package only sell to a specific subset of the consumer, everyone else who knows better will select their ammunition choices based on real world performance not what's printed on the box.
They really should have an industry standard in labeling velocity/muzzle energy. It'd be nice to see the 2 most common barrel lengths represented for the intended use of the cartridge, for example a box of CCI mini mags listing specs for test barrels of 4" and 21".
Unfortunately the real choices are small. Just like .32, al your good choices are ball only and .380 is a complete crap shoot. I think those screw driver bit looking solid brass bullets are fairly decent though.
Gonna take a wild guess here. Over expand under penetrate at about 8". Thanks for another video! You've been uploading a lot lately hopefully this continues!
I'd say of recent ammunition videos, this Norma & the Winchester Ready Defense +P 9mm are both ⬇️. Stay with documented 🚔 loads: Speer Gold Dot, HST, Ranger T-T series, XTP, Critical Duty.
I am from the UK, have no plans to move, no firearms of my own and yet I find these videos incredibly fascinating for some reason. You do good work, glad to see you're posting more regularly again.
A friend of mine who's new to the prospect of using firearms defensively mentioned this ammo to me. I steered him away because of the low weight and this makes me glad I did. On the other hand thank you for giving us the straight information without much opinion beyond that it's not for you and letting folks decide what's best for themselves.
You made some very good points here of which you may not have fully realized their importance. New to firearms....those millions of people in 20 and 21 and most likely gravitating toward 9mm. Those of us like myself who had access to Gold Dot, HST, Ranger, Critical Duty and others that set the bar high. Those were the wonder years (apologies to Fred Savage) and I have great concerns they may not return. Today's new shooters have a smaller matrix of options and I have yet to really notice anything that's in the ballpark of our current "standards".
@@tnoutdoors9 What's wrong with continuing to use the HSTs? The new folks don't need to use newly designed ammo. A Glock 9mm with HSTs is still an excellent standard. The golden years are still here!
@@LifeisGood762 Hope I did not imply the HST's are crap because they are absolutely top shelf, just a matter of availability on all the cited standards. I plan to retest the current rendition of the 147 HST because it has been redesigned, and possibly the 124 +P as well at some point. The 147 sooner than later depending on when the really cold weather sets in here. I do see the 147's out and about online. Related....gel test of the PUNCH is forthcoming.
@@tnoutdoors9 Excellent. I'm excited for the punch gel test! I carry 147 grain HSTs currently and didn't realize it had been redesigned, so that will also be interesting. I've been finding that load in the small, impossible-to-open boxes locally at big box stores! I was so happy to see that.
Now has two cannelures and possibly changes to the skives. Rumor mill says it doesn't open up consistenly in LEO shootings. I've hit some water and clear gel with it off camera couple of years ago and can see the potential of tighter tolerances for expansion potential. Not that anything I do here is the-end all but I'm curious myself.
I carry these in the spring and summer out of my m9a3. They do pretty good out of that. They always expand in my testing. Anything shorter than 5” and they drop off immensely.
I must praise you sir starting at 5:56. Not alot of shooter goes in depth like this. This is information we need when choosing the type of ammunition we carry❤❤❤❤❤
We've been using this in our "What's For Dinner?" tests over the last couple years and not had any feeding issues that I can recall despite the longer length.
Thank you for yet again for another awesome test. I really enjoy watching your tests very un-biased and to the point . As always it's a matter of personal choice. I use them in my EDC alternating them with the Sig Sauer JHP in my 18 mag . My choice I don't expect anyone to agree but I'm not on this planet to please other people. Keep up the AWESOME videos and stay safe my friend
For some reason. RU-vid doesn't have a notification bell for this channel but that doesn't stop me from searching and finding. As always, concise and precise review. Thanks for all your hard work, I hope you know how much your reviews are appreciated. Thanks, and stay safe! 👍🇺🇸
Awesome test. Thank you for taking the time to put these together. Preparing a block from Knox gel is a process in itself. Done it a few times and you sir seem to have it down pat. Thanks again for the test and info
I’m still in the Underwood Extreme Defender camp as far as monolithic copper bullets go. I wonder if that philips’ head technology could be put in a rifle bullet?
The Underwood Defender is probably the only copper bullet I would consider carrying. Edited to add.....I would expect a Phillips rifle bullet to have a horrible ballistic coefficient.
@@johnnybagofdoughnuts4193 Actually, you CAN get the "phillips" style bullets in .429" .452", .458"... sooo.. .458 socom, .450 bushmaster, .444 marlin, .45-70 govt.
I’m very glad you are posting test results again! I’m sure hot dogs and barrels of water are good test mediums but I prefer your way of doing things. Thanks!
Kind of seems like a “novelty” type of ammo. I’ll stick with my Hornady Critical Duty and Speer Gold Dot when I can find them! Glad you’re putting on fresh content!
I appreciate that you mentioned momentum, and didn't harp on energy. I have never seen a foot pound stop or kill anything, rather the bullet must reach major blood vessels or organs, large supporting bone structures, or the central nervous system. When it gets there, it needs enough diameter to do some damage, and that can be via a large bullet starting out or one that has expanded. Almost none of the super-light bullets have the ability to accomplish this and it's why I lean towards "middle-heavyweight"-for-caliber bullets in my defensive and hunting ammo.
TN - It is ALWAYS great to see a new ammunition evaluation from you, they unfailingly are outstanding, and your return to RU-vid is heartening. I have fired a lot of NORMA ammunition in the last 50+ years and, in general, I believe it is s excellent. However, imho this simply is another “gimmick” contender in the 9mm Luger defensive marketplace. It did not expand consistently, and higher than normal velocity - with reduced mass - is very likely to provide marginal penetration. FWIW, monolithic copper bullets can work very well; for example, Remington marketed a Barnes TSX “Hog Hammer” in .223 that was really good, however, this this all-copper bullet doesn’t appear to be at all well “system engineering integrated” with the cartridge’s other attributes.
Me: - types in Norma MHP on RU-vid… - scrolls till I see a RU-vid I like….. -jumps and screams like a child on Christmas morning when I see your channel posted the review I’m looking for
This is one I’ve been waiting on. I know this stuff is supposed to be extreme on expansion and when it comes to a living body and gel, there’s a difference. That small cavity is a bit of a concern though Edit: Just get you some 124gr HSTs 👍🏼
Thank you for doing the 3" in chrono test for us "short barrel" guys. They always say you lose around 50 fps from a ~ 4" in. barrel and that seems true...most of the time.
If I remember correctly from handgun barrel tests, there is a big drop right in between. It made a real difference between 3.25'' and 3.5''. On top of that barrels aren't all the same.
Thanks for that. I only learned about NORMA MHP today, seeing .380ACP on sale at a sporting goods chain. I'm leery of "new" ammo for self-defense. I prefer stuff that's had a proven track record of 10-years or more. Good test and opinion.
Norma seems to be dirty ammo too. I picked up 100 rounds of FMJ for a quick trip to the range and my gun was dirtier than when I shoot three out four times that amount of American Eagle. I do a thorough clean after every trip.
DUDE I thought the same thing. I can shoot 700 rounds of Tula out of a pistol on an all-out range day and I know it'll have some pieces of powder around the spring, and some graying on the muzzle and chamber, but I took the norma fmjs to an indoor range to shoot like 250 rounds and later went to clean it and was horrified at the amount of gunk on it, not even unburnt powder, more like caked-on coal dust. Cleaned relatively easy tho, so it does what it says on the tin, just clean your tool
Man, This channel is the only legit gun channel on youtube! so much bullshit and paid reviews. I'm glad you're doing good, my man. you're looking healthier!
Thank you for this review! I just put some of these up and WILL NOT be using them in my carry thanks to your information. I’ll stick with my 124 Gr +P HST
That's fascinating. I usually would expect very deep penetration by monolithic ammo, often with expanded petals completely detaching around the 7"-9" mark and the core travelling quite deeply - which might be bad for permanent cavity of the main slug or good for multiple wound channels, depending on point of view. This expanded terrifically - like in the range of a really good 45+p load - and all stayed together but had poor penetration overall. Tbh I wonder if they'd reduced the petal cuts a little or added some more weight to the bullet base if this wouldn't have been a really nice round. As it is, I can't deny being amazed by the expansion, but it might not do so well at an oblique angle shot... clogging looks like a problem too. Still, it's a cool concept, and might really go somewhere with a little more tuning. I remember where hollowpoint performance was in general back thirty years ago and it's come a long way, I have a feeling copper slug technology will have a ways to advance, too.
"hyper ammo". I'll stick with the Remington green and white box 115grn JHP for 9mm. It works, and I can afford it. Winchester White Box 115grn ball is close enough to practice with when I can't. Great video. So glad to see you posting these again. You are fantastic.
If it's in your budget/time, please consider getting a lone wolf barrel. I think it might be interesting to see the velocities of these things out of the long test barrels and see how the numbers hold up there.
Thank you very much friend for the video I was thinking about picking em up but didn't know cause the weigh and you said it best you have alot of non expansion on copper bullets
I have been looking at these, and was so pumped to see a TNO9 review on them. While they may be great for some circumstances, they don’t seem to fit my need. I can’t wait for your next review.
Definitely not something I would consider for cold weather carry. I do believe in seasonal adjustments to ammunition, just as much as I do for my O.S.Bag. Now for warmer temperatures, where over penetration is a concern in public, these might work well enough. 😉
We've had this ammo in our shop for the 2 years I've worked there at least. It's pretty expensive, more expensive than the Hornady Critical Duty loads we have. I thought that the advertised velocity sounded pretty hot but didn't notice the 6" test barrel disclaimer. I gotta say, I am kind of eager to get this ammo and try it out in my 9mm carbine rifle against some melons and such. Over 1100 fps out of a 3.1" barrel ain't bad at all.
Its probably pretty decent out of longer barrels, but there is no way in hell I'd carry this in a short barreled carry gun. The expansion is just not reliable. There's a reason a lot of carry loads now have some sort of technology built in ensure expansion and prevent tip clogs. Hornady Critical Duty 135gr +p is what I've been carrying for years now. They recently came out with a 124gr +p which I would have no problem using. I used to carry PDX1 until I had some failures to feed b/c of the bullet design. The deep scallops at the tip of the hollow point would catch on the feed ramp. This was in a Glock too. I quickly dumped it from my carry guns. I really liked that bullet too.
@@oldscratch3535 By the results of the demonstration in this vid, it looks like the idea behind the Norma Monolithic is adequate wound channel formation with most of the energy expended in the target (that is if the rounds deploy as designed), as even the rounds that didn't expand seemed to have little energy left... I guess if you have a big concern of over penetration this may be a valid option. Yeah, from what I've seen, it looks like 124 gr bonded bullets with decent velocity out of a 3-4 inch barrel is the way to go. From what I've heard though, it seems like the Silver Tips are still a good option so I'd buy those if I could find them readily. I carry a .40 and have mine loaded with Hornady American Gunner 180gr XTP's. I don't know how they function in ballistic gel but they function well in the gun.
I am so glad you reviewed the Norma Ammo. I love the big blossom of the bullet, but was disappointed to see that it did not consistently expand. And as you said, when you factor in clothing and bones... the results can change! I wonder how well, a few Tennessee Oak, tree limbs would simulate bone, for testing purposes? But... if you really want real bones, just save some ribs after a Saturday BBQ?
There is a peer-reviewed medical article published citing oak as a viable replacement for bone. A few years ago I tried (off camera) the SIMBONE plates from Switzerland and it was just similar to shooting plastic tiles. The only suitable representation for bone is live bone, not dead.....therefore I'll probably avoid that aspect entirely.
I speak for myself, but I think I can speak for all of your subscribers, too; "We're so glad that you're back and producing informative and quality videos. Thank you so much for all that you do."
Could you start molding a rack of ribs into the gel going forward? More typical winter gear (a section of the typical fluffy winter jacket, a shirt and undershirt) going over it would be interesting too. I know it's not the fbi standard, but I feel like a shirt and under shirt with ribs would give us the most accurate assessment for summer, and that fluffy jacket would be ideal for winter demonstration purposes.
