An Honest Discussion of the Mentor System 

i think wesk has alot to say about this guys

I purposely avoided the newbie system thing when i got spammed to join one, i just wanted to play and was confident enough in my own ability to adapt and learn. It worked fine. I don't care if a person is a mentor or is not, i care if they're a dick or not.

I left the Novice Network day 1 due to spam. I'd rather simply google something than have my chat bar fly by as people rant about politics or their favorite anime. Afterwards I would frequently get re-invited to it when entering major cities, which only further cemented my disdain for it. I found out much later (after recommending your videos to a friend) that I'm on the same server as you, and that you personally helped my friend learn how to tank via NN. I'm glad people like you are trying to improve it, I probably would have stuck around if discussion was limited to game-related questions and answers.

"You don't need a reason to help people" - Zidane Tribal, FFIX

Though we've never met across the NN, I want you to know here that you are the Mentor who has helped me enjoy my 14 experience more than any other. Your many guides allowed me to move from completely overwhelmed into what may be my favorite game.

Hey Wesk, hearing about this subject from the other perspective was a real eye opener. I have not been wronged by the system myself, as I just chose to carve my own path when I started playing the game, but a couple years into the game now at least felt a bit skeptical about the system and how well it was actually working. And even though I don't have any particular strong opinion on mentors themselves as to me they are just players as well, it's very clear to see you're very passionate about helping people and helping this game in general. Your content stands to prove this as well. As much as you say yourself that you're some nobody, people like me who have watched all of your guides getting into the game would still like to thank you for all that hard work.

Actually one of my biggest gripes is that the system kicks you when you no longer have a sprout icon. I mean, what's even up with that? People are sprouts waaay into endgame because of the lack of in game resources, and having players be unable to join just because they reached an arbitrary time estimate? Yikes

Related to the discussion bits around 16:00 teaching is its own separate skill. You need knowledge of a subject matter to be able to teach it, but that knowledge alone does not make you good at explaining and teaching it, and when teaching a novice, the teaching skill can be more important than any actual specialist knowledge most times (since the basics have to be learned for the more advanced stuff to build upon)

45:00 had me in tears. Never heard Wesk show even mild perturbation so that was hilarious.

I agree with pretty much everything you have brought up except for the "world chat section" to a point. Honestly I get what you are saying, it's fair that the NN is basically a global linkshell there is nothing inherently wrong with that on paper. However, the major problem that I have personally experienced and as such will never go back onto NN as a novice player, is that the NN feels extremely cliquey. I won't mention the data center because I feel like it will detract from the point. But basically the NN on the Data Center I was on (for 1 month) was filled with the same 15 - 25 people daily where most of the conversations had nothing to do with advice or helping and instead were focused on things outside of the game (favorite anime, video games, movies, etc.), when discussions did turn towards the game it was mostly gushing over things like story beats and characters. I didn't really see people asking questions often and when they did, due to constant random conversations a lot of questions were missed or if answered were answered by 5 different people 5 different ways. Not much help. The issue that drove me out of the NN however, was the fact that at the time I was leveling a dragoon and had reached a quest I was having trouble finding (granted I was being dumb and didn't realize the quest marker was sending me down a canyon that I had thought you couldn't go down). At the time people in the NN were pining over Estinien as a few of the members had finally beaten HW for the first time and everyone was gushing about how amazing he was, often in a non-pg13 way. Whatever though, the problem for me was once they found out I had met Estinien in the previous quest they asked me how I liked him. When I answered that I didn't really care for him and that he seemed kinda generic (this was ARR dragoon quests, and while I still don't think he was the most amazing character he did grow in HW). I was bombarded by hate from people telling me I didn't understand how story development works, and why I was playing this game if I couldn't appreciate good writing/characters. Not a single person in that group of 15ish people jumped in to be like: "Hey stop guys". Everyone just kind of descended on me, like I had insulted a single member of a frat and everyone in that frat had to jump in to defend that guy. It sucked and while a mentor did personally message me to apologize and help me out, I left the NN the following hour. Granted this is all anecdotal and I know for a fact that all NN are probably not run that way, but it was a bad enough experience that I feel something has to be done, there has to be better way for NN to ask questions instead of the equivalent of a cliquey linkshell.

Some People say hes still saying Dancer. Dancer. Dancer.... :D

Sadly I will be out all day but I will get to responding to comments when I can! Enjoy!

As a newbie (no longer a sprout because I beat Shadowbringers, but still VERY MUCH IN NEED OF HELP) I want to thank you for all your work in the novice network. I have watched your guides and it made my rotations so much better but I always ask for help in dungeons I'm not familiar with and accept advice. (You made my dragoon rotation so good in a trial the tank got mad at me because I was generating too much enmity.. I don't know what to do with that.) I wish more people were willing to chime in, and I don't know how to help improve this system but I appreciate the way it is. However, the one time someone told me to "go stand in a corner" was pretty harsh.

Why need mentors when you have wesk vids.

I remember playing as a BLM in level 80 roulette, and we managed to have a PLD who didn't know how to tank, not even the bare basics such as mitigation. Tried giving advice as I've been tank main for a very long time till recently, and the guy got pretty offended from what I could tell, by being pretty sarcastic in his tones with comments like "okay mister expert", bare in mind I'm not even a mentor. I would go into the mentor thing, but I can't play all roles well, not even in theory (healer is my kryptonite); so I don't wanna drag myself in because of that. I can only imagine how many scenarios like this you mentors have to put up with, alongside other players throwing insults at you all. All of my sympathies go out to you lot

As a healer main, I’ll generally commend the tank if they make my job extremely easy, and commend the DPS if I don’t have to even look in their general direction beyond normal expected damage. If someone new is struggling and apologizes for struggling, I’ll give them a commendation as a way of letting em know I appreciate their effort (as well as tell them it’s no big deal in chat, it’s fine) For me, commendation is “you respected the party and everyone’s time”, avoided mechanics instead of relying on gear and healing to tank it, asking for help if you need it, being friendly and polite. It’s difficult to generally tell if DPS is doing their rotation exactly right as a healer, but I do keep on eye on dots and debuffs on the bosses. I appreciate your guides being detailed and helpful by assuming the viewer doesn’t immediately know things. Gathering and crafting guides that are basically like “reach level 20 then go to the diadem/firmament for the next 60 levels there you go you learned how to craft”, with no explanation of what skills are used for or why to go there in the first place. “How to play (class) guides” generally never actually explain when you should or shouldn’t use certain skills, or leave out things like how close you should follow the tank as a healer or how enmity generation works, or why you should use AOE in groups of three or more even if your other fancy buttons have higher potency. For me, helpful advice should aim from the perspective of the player they are aimed at. The new tank who doesn’t understand why his party keeps getting hit maybe doesn’t know that they need to hit the enemies first to draw their attention. Letting a tank know “you need to have your stance skill on and hit the enemy at least once to provoke them, using AOE attacks makes this easier in groups”, is more useful and actionable than “you need to generate enmity when pulling, or they attack your party”, which is meaningless to someone who doesn’t know what enmity is or how to generate it or why you need to do that to prevent them from attacking. Expanding on that with “healers healing you draws enemy’s attention even when they are not attacking, so keep an eye on enemies near them and see which enemies are indicated as “green” on the enemy list, that means they are targeting your party”, gives them actionable information, and also clears up some misconceptions they might have (“why is my healer pulling instead of letting me do it?”) and let’s them know what they can do to solve the problem they might encounter frequently when first learning. Sprouts sometimes need better advice (but also to take the advice they are given, because I have definitely encountered players who just wanted someone else to blame). I especially agree with the idea that a variety of mentors are needed, you need a variety of experiences. I leveled dragoon to around 53 before deciding I didn’t really like the rotation and play style, and if a newbie asked me what I thought of the class, I would probably say that the rotation is very involved and might not be new player friendly, while my buddy who leveled it to 80 might say instead that the Dragoon feels really strong in single target combat and let’s you feel like you’re doing something active instead of pressing the same couple buttons consistently. Both of us are right in our experience, but we’d give very different ideas of the class. Having both of our viewpoints could help someone new decide if they wanted to play dragoon, maybe they want a complicated class that feels active, maybe they want to just press the same two buttons, but now they know what to expect going in. Either of our views on their own might turn someone off of the class before they even tried it, or might give them the wrong idea of how the class plays. I don’t have any experience with Novice Network since I wasn’t invited when in early levels, and because I have a lot of friends who play, and I’m the kind of person who does a lot of my own research, even on classes I don’t plan on playing in case I need to understand how their class works. So in general I’ve learned a lot second hand. From my experience with other MMO’s, I think any system would benefit from having a public forum rather than (or maybe in addition to) a public chat. (Perhaps there is a forum?) socializing is good, but I would really love a searchable, persistent area where frequent questions can be looked up, and helpful threads compiled. There’s a lot of stuff in this game that you might not ever know about without specifically being told. Easily searchable public threads (no signing in!) are a great way to make information accessible. As much as I enjoy video guides as something to listen to while doing something else, having a clear concise post somewhere is a preferable tool for me. I’d rather have a post that lists the bosses in the dungeon and the mechanics in simple terms (stand on the glowing red platform to avoid dying from the Doom condition the boss puts on you) instead of having to scroll through a 20 minute dungeon guide video that says “pick up the ads and don’t stand in the AOE” for 75% of it. Clear and concise is what I want when I look for specifics (when should I use Repose in dungeons?) vs long and involved is great for getting a general feel (how does a spell casters role actions come into play?). Searchable forums do a lot to let you have both, without getting bogged down. You’ll see this a lot with “class handbooks” for dnd/pathfinder classes. Want to know how to build a cleric from the ground up? Want spell suggestions? Or do you want to know what kind of magic items you should buy for one? Press control-F and there you go. I’m sure discords exist for this, but having to join a discord just for a single question is a pain, and the discords generally not being moderated consistently is generally unpleasant in my experience. Having to search several channels just to find a bunch of posts with people asking the same question and being told to go to a specific channel that has a link to a google doc with a broken link to a video that was removed for being out of date, is not a great experience in any game. So, there’s my two cents from the perspective of someone who has had no experience with it. That’s what I’d want from a novice network, and how I personally prefer to learn.

Not a mentor but I have been recommending your guides to people who were struggling with a class

I attempted to read every comment and respond to many! Thank you all for the support on this one and please share it around! Got another busy day today but I'll try and catch new comments tonight!

From what I've seen about the watering can suggestion, people seem to be more interested in filtering out the 'prestige' factor of the icon. They'd probably be fine with the type of player chasing the watering can to hear it from them. I think it's more about reputation and interpersonal relationships. "How dare you assume you are better than me, with that crown." But that's just an assumption on my hand after seeing people speak on it.

I was playing on my alt on Midgardsormr the other day when I got an invite to NN. I immediately thought "oh I'm not the sort of 🌱 they are looking for here" and declined the invite. Especially after watching this video, I wish I had just accepted it. My previous experiences with the NN on Gilgamesh revolved around rude sprouts and mentors with a short fuse but I didn't really give it a good chance. Being where I am with my main (about halfway through Stormblood) I am beginning to realize how far behind the curve I am in terms of game knowledge and skill and in no way, shape, or form does having an alternate character on another world absolve me of my inadequacies in this game. There is always room for improvement and, particularly in the case of those mentors who go out of their way to invite new adventurers, there are players out there who have much they could teach me.

So many truths in this video. As a mentor I appreciate all the information and awareness and time put into this video. Thank you for your hard work. I see you in game often and I had no idea you had a RU-vid channel. Definitely subscribing!

When you walk away for a couple minutes to check on dinner and you come back to "dancer, dancer, dancer, dancer, dancer, dancer"

Comms are tricky sometimes anyway because your teammates will often peace out ASAP, so it's easier to just pick someone at random and throw a comm their way. I've been picking dps specifically for a while purely because they don't often get comms unless they were a troll or something, at least that way they get a few here and there.

I started on Siren about a year ago and kinda ignored the Novice Network while I was leveling but I would look at it from time to time and have only seen people being helpful or using it for casual conversation. I would say that it's a good system but it definitely needs more structure. On the note of commendations, if I'm a healer or tank, I give it to the other healer or tank. When i play dps, i give my commendation to another dps. I only started doing this when i started playing all the roles and began to figure out that most people were doing this too. The only exception is when one person saves the whole run.

I only knew you are a mentor in this video. Your my 1st day video series is a very good guide that really made for novices’ point of view. I followed most of it and now gone to Heavensward in a comfortable position. In non English data center like Kujata, novice network is kinda like a general chat room for English speaking players and players mostly enjoy the discussion and talk. We can even get help for some content like Bahamut. There are players who “graduated” but returned as mentor just for the chat room alone. Personally I had a game in the lost city of Amdapor where we got wiped many times because of not knowing how to mark the door in Dioboloss fight. Then there was a mentor who didn’t give up on us and coached us to victory. It’s good to know that there’s mentors who give their best. I hope you continue your efforts with the same enthusiasm.

The only reason I got 7 commendations, is because I ran into a random 7-man party in DF. I also didn't use the novice network, but so far I haven't had any bad encounters with people who have the mentor icon.

Yo, I remember clutching hard in a Shadowbringers dungeon while leveling up my Summoner. The healer kept dying so it fell to me to usually heal. Final boss, the tank died so I raised them, then the healer died (no surprise there) and I raised them quickly. Once we finally beat the boss, I got zero commendations for saving the run which upset me a bit but what really got me was how the healer who was a toxic asshole to me got the commendations because of their glam. I'd love to help new players, I got every requirements but the commendation requirements are what's holding me back greatly because I don't really focus on glamour. Only time I got a full team commendation was when I beat the final boss as the last standing player as my Machinist (this wasn't my main character either. My main is on Goblin and has a total of eight classes maxed out I believe).

I just cant agree with the commendation for tank or healer. They are in shortage which causes longer queue for dps. If they decide to become a tank or healer, they deserve a commendation. But if they are very bad and unwilling to take advice then absolutely give commendation to a good dps player.

i dont even wanna use the crown because then i get harassed whenever i do anything people dont think is optimal or whatever lol

THANK YOU! I use all of your rotation guides, and I finally feel like I've gotten experienced enough to participate because I WANT TO HELP players and make a better community. I looked for comments on joining, and I am really HAPPY you put this out!~

After this hearing this, the word “dancer” doesn’t sound like a word anymore lmao

One thing I think could help would be to try to enable ways to give specific advice. Maybe have mentors for specific jobs for people who want to learn something more than what usually gets asked in NN, the system does sometimes provide good advice (for me the biggest help was an explanation of endgame gear lockouts on midgard) but with so much happening at once in NN asking some questions sometimes I felt nervous like I was interrupting something else. While job guides are a way to help players who are actively looking for help, so is a google search for how to unlock mounts, but novice network presents a way to get that information in game, so many people complain about bad players and if we cant have job guides to properly teach ideas like burst windows and general rotation logic, then mentors for a specific job could help a lot. I dont know what the requirements should be, but that’s an issue for mentorship as a whole. (Edit: yes I know this is ironically all very general, but to use a job I know well as an example, having someone explain how to prioritise using dancer procs and cooldowns, or avoid rotation drift with flourish.

I'm a (trade) mentor that don't usually use the NN to chat, and I only answer the occasional question when I'm sure of the answer and/or when no one answers it first. I do feel like trade mentors are not taken as seriously as "real" mentors, since it's so easy to get, so I honestly don't feel confident enough to answer complex questions or help people with a lot of content...you didn't talk about it in the video, but I do wish the requirements for trade mentors were higher, not only because it's so easy and there's a lot of sprouts that are able to get it before even losing the sprout, but also because being a little more time consuming would make trade mentors be taken more seriously. Even though I love crafting, it's one of the main things I do in game, I feel like it doesn't mean anything. People don't look at it and think "oh, she's a crafter, maybe she could help me!", they probably think "easiest way to get to NN huh". So it feels embarassing to leave the icon on. Like I'm bragging over nothing. Other than that, I love the system. Mentors helped me a lot when I was just starting out, and it's fun to read the NN, get to know how people are in that server and feel like a part of the community.

Omg, that interjection dude, all serious until that point inteh video, now its' just hilarious, i can't stop laughing, tyvm for at least trying to make it light hearted LMAO

A sort of, alternate yet really minor band-aid fix I thought of in regards to the mentor icon was rather than limiting when the icon is displayed, why not add more for say, pure cosmetic or another way to flex certain achievements. The way I see it, many newer players at first glance who don't know anything about the novice network, much less about player search will see the crown and assume it's some sort of cosmetic to add on top of your title that's displayed around your name. The icon itself doesn't even need to be associated with player search. Like titles, they can just equip these icons to show off something they did, or something they wanna show off to people. This of course will not completely deter everyone from getting the crown as there will still be people who want it just for the looks, nor fix the inherent problems and bias associated with it, but at least adding more options would probably thin the herd, even a little bit? Icons associated with certain achievements, milestones, or other activities that display what that person did or accomplished, even if that icon itself has no intrinsic value, could be a start in trying to give the mentor icon less of a negative connotation, and mentors can still display that icon if they wish to truly use it as a means to reach out and help others in need. There might be some caveats I overlooked so feel free to discuss with me this band-aid fix I proposed.

Regarding your point in the One Player is not All Players paragraph: there is plenty of people who say that novices who run around like headless chicken are the bane of this game. This doesn't make flaming mentors right, of course, but it's a behaviour I've seen a lot, at least on Chaos, especially when it comes down to alliance raids. My view on the matter is clearly biased, since I only lost my sprout status in December. However, I doubt that having to download ACT just to make sure I'm not sandbagging an entire instance like I've been told time and time again was part of the intended learning curve for this game. I guess my point is: people will attack other players based on their icon no matter what it is. At least the sprout icon can tell other players: "I'm new to the game, please be patient"; is there really a need for an icon that says, mid instance: "I'm an experienced player, you can ask me anything"? Especially if, as you said, some people's experience far surpasses their execution. [And before anyone assumes I'm flaming and/or boasting: I fall into this category as well: I know by heart the MSQ dungeons up to HW thanks to the time spent as a free trialer, but still clip my rotations big time when tackling content I don't know well. I doubt I'd be a good mentor.] I think I said this in the poll's comment section, but in my opinion the Crown icon shouldn't be shown at all times, like dungeons, trials, raids etc., but just when in the Novice Network or, idk, overworld.

There has only ever been one guy who took time at a random roulette dungeon to give me pointers, and my initial reaction was genuine anger. If he didn't like how I was tanking then he could go tank, was what I thought. But then I mulled it over for a while and knew he was right. The message was to learn when to use damage mitigation, and I didn't know when, then to always have mitigation on whenever possible. I usually consider myself a patient man, so me flaring up with that much anger for something I was wrong about startled me. He literally popped the advice in chat and left. Didn't even wait for a reply. Now I understand why. I may have been angry with him for a moment, but I'm truly grateful to that mysterious person the most now. I hope people get past that anger and take in the advice that weskalber and the rest of the mentors give, even if it's after the initial encounter.

You hit it right on the nail when talking about hiding the crown for me. my feels! Thank you for this video, it has given me hope and inspiration to continue what i believe being a mentor is all about in this game.

Hey Wesk, I really like this video! I think it's what got me to get into mentoring. You know, be the change you want to see in the world. Exodus NN is very nice and it feels good to give back to the community that helped me along the way when I was new. I really don't get it when people say NN or mentors are bad because I've never really experienced any of that. Not even sprouts, really. It's usually returners with an ego who treat everyone like dirt that end up being the issue.

After watching this, you've convinced me to join the novice network (and I'm on midgardsormr!). I've only heard the stereotypes so thank you for the counterpoints.

Sadly, realistically, there is no way to "fix" the mentor system outside of small suggestions like ones that you provided. Why? Because no matter what you do, even if SE handpicked best of the best players to be mentors and paid them money to do it, there would still be people disappointed in the way that mentor system works. Why am I so certain about it? Because there are plenty lazy, incompetent, angry and purely bad teachers irl. And those people don't grind silly internet game, they make a decision to go to university and study to be a teacher. If we can't filter out shitty teachers that way, there is no way we can do it in a silly catgirl erp game.

The balance in this game is amazing in comparison to any other game I've played in remembrance

Wesker sent me back here to watch this after a little back and forth in the comments of a mentor roulette video. I gotta say that I now understand why comms aren't a great requirement for mentors. And honestly, as a player who joined just before Endwalker, I had no idea the Novice Network was a manual invite. I'll have to start taking time to invite sprouts.

The bit where you mentioned healers who wouldn't do dps being mostly negative hit a little hard. When I was trying to go for my first Shiva EX clear, I was healing as WHM and my co healer was doing nothing but spamming Medica and Medica 2. We failed that instance and voted to abandon with about 5 minutes left of the hour. The second attempt I actually had a competent co healer, except they didn't have LB on their bar. Found that out as Shiva was at 10 percent, and the only standing members were them and one tank, I'm calling for Healer LB3 and after we wiped they said "I didn't put it on my bar, it's there now though." We cleared it the next attempt. Moral of the story, everyone makes mistakes, but healers making mistakes is the most noticeable.

I'm surprised but really happy to hear that Siren's NN experiences were mostly positive now. Siren is my home server and when I was using the NN mentors were incredibly rude and unhelpful. This was back in 2015-2016 however so I'm glad to hear things have changed for the better!

35:12 I never knew this was where you could report this kind of stuff! I thought you could only ever report RMT activity since that's the only option given under Report when you select someone. While I hope I never need to use this functionality, thank you for showing me where it is!

I personally didn't know about the NN, and when I was going through that part of the story I wasn't paying that close of attention to what was being said and never got invited so I agree that there should be a function that a paying member auto joins or once you get to level 10 or so you get a notification that pings you asking if you want to be a part of it.

Great video. I couldn't agree with the part about novice network being friendly more. I'm on Diabolos in the Crystal DC (US) and the environment in Novice Network is great. People are friendly, questions are answered, and when questions aren't being asked, there is often funny conversations but these will stop to answer ff related questions. I'm an ex WoW player and I can say this is such a breath of fresh air. Not dealing with the shit of WoW's trade chat while getting real help and friendly chat is wonderful. If people are getting their questions answered, how is friendly chat a problem in any way? At all?? It's not. When I finally finish Shadowbrings, I'm going to really miss the Novice Network and frankly, going through the paces to become a mentor myself one day is an appealing goal. I want to be able to give back. Anyhow, thanks for this video. I love the amount of thought and work you put into them.

I'm still fairly new to the game, but I never joined the novice network because I tend to just google/youtube my questions and hope there's good answers out on the internet. So far i found the solution to most of my problems this way, but hearing you passionately talk about the mentor system really makes me want to try joining the NN. Thanks for the great video

OMG...Thank you! Thank you so much for this video. I am so glad that I am not the only person with these thoughts. I appreciate this video

I was once making jokes about ffxiv or job stereotypes durring MSQ roulette. Got 5 or 6 coms just for that ;)

As much as I would like to be a mentor I know it's not for me because I know I'm really bad at explaining things and tend to be quiet. I'm also still learning things myself and I've been playing on and off since 1.0.

I have a good experience with the novice network and mentors. I don't use it often, but when I did ask for help, I got it. I was carried through coils, guided through deep dungeons, and my UI questions were answered. Though there is drama in the NN, that is attributed to a troublesome few. When so many people gather in one place, of course there will be trolls and annoying people. That's how it is everywhere.

Thanks for making this. I enjoyed learning your pov and feedback on the system.

this is a fantastic video discussing a very important topic but I NEED TO KNOW how to you made other players flashy abilities not come up on the screen i keep dying in my dungeons because i cant see mechanics

All those Dancer's had me feeling like I was stuck in the twilight zone.

Mentors are just players too. And like anyone else, nobody knows everything. The trick is just recognizing that and sticking to your strengths. Help people on stuff you know and don't spew BS on stuff you don't know. In a sensible world, you'd think that ought to be pretty easy. For example, you mention macros early on in the video. Macros are generally not good for combat because of their non-queueing nature, but there's so much more nuance that people will benefit from knowing. A mentor (or anyone) being immediately dismissive doesn't provide any value. - Macros make non-queueing skills (sprint, LB) *more* responsive. You should be macroing these. - Macros are used extensively in high level feast for accurate targeting (silence the healer for 2s because you're trying to burst someone within the next gcd), and to avoid telegraphing target selection - Macros can often complement ground target skills, or skills that benefit from callouts (res, invuln, etc.) - Macros let you do a LOT of things you can't otherwise do; e.g., "/mk attack " gives you an auto incrementing target marker that automatically puts 1, 2, 3, etc. depending on what's available; "/c " lets you pull up peoples' profiles without clicking on them; and the list goes on... (I can honestly list like 20+ things)

I'm a trade mentor, not because I'm that good at the game,but because I want to help people or even craft some stuff for some sprouts that are willing to accept help. I only turn the crown in closed parties tho, ppl tend to talk down on me when I have it on and even being resurrected/commended gets harder. In duty finder or random teams is like asking to play in hard mode. I recognise I'm not that good at fighting, that's why I prefer the trade icon, but to avoid a harder time I help without making use of the crown. .. I'm happy that a couple of sprout groups wanted to be my friends and invited me to the discord server, I believe that anyone can appreciate a helping hand, just if you're willing to give it or take it

This is my first ever comment on youtube. I never really cared about youtube comments because they're often just spammy stuff, or just random people trying to push their own agenda. I'm pleasantly surprised that your channel has quality comments; must be because your videos are so helpful- so severely underrated and underwatched ;) Hope your channel grows, and the community grows positively around it. I think one of the issue about commendation is we're given the ability to commend anyone too early. As a beginner, it's incredibly hard to tell who is good and who is not (because you're just busy trying to learn...). So I naturally just gravitate towards cool looking people, friendly people, or just funny people. Even when I get better, that habit doesn't change :/

I literally got the two sides of the coin back to back. I was emptying my journal and just needed to do Shiva and Ramuh extremes. Both times it was party full of sprouts and one mentor. With shiva the mentor didn't say a word and dropped after the second wipe so we needed to look for a new tank character (I was the other tank and had no idea what to look out for) and the new tank was able to guide us to beat it. With the Ramuh even before we started the mentor opened with Q&A about the boss mechanics for all roles and the whole fight they kept shouting out mechanics and their explanation was easy to follow so we were able to beat it on the second try.

I wholeheartedly 100% agree with you on the aspect of engagement. Everyone believes there gonna be great at something without realizing the responsibility and process at which to actually be great. And they become the very thing that they railed against. I'm not a mentor but I try to do my part in helping new people because I love ffxiv and I want the community to continue to grow and be successful.

While, I do think there are a handful of issues, the biggest issue I have is the separation of mentor ships, or rather the lack there of. Some people probably think splitting the Crafting/Gathering mentorships from Battle mentorships is enough, but I personally feel like PvP should be split off into it’s own separate mentorship, because PvP is VERY different PvE in XIV. And there are a lot of knowledgeable and helpful people in PvP who don’t meet the requirements for mentorship as is. As for current mentors, there are certainly bad apples, that much is true in every group of people over a certain size, what that size is, I couldn’t tell you, unless mentors are curated to a very specific degree. I think there is no perfect mentor system, and I think XIV has one of the better ones, people who wear the crown put themselves out there for all kinds of shit, but that’s hopefully because they want people to come to them for betterment. I personally don’t make the cut for mentorship but I still do my best to help, because once I can make the cut, I can set myself as an example

Wow, you had some genius suggestions and incredible insight, this is an amazing video. I wasn't gonna watch it all but your thoughts are all engaging and, I guess epiphany-giving lol. Stay amazing.

started playing for the first time 2 weeks ago and been enjoying leveling slowly in literally all classes lol. I wish I knew how to join the novice network, I was given the option to join it at one point but failed to officially do so. I have been thoroughly enjoying all your 1 to 80 ability guides and has helped me figure out what dps I would off spec as when not wanting to tank. I appreciate the effort you put into the videos and will learn as I go

I kinda forgot most of the stuff i was gonna say because i got sick and didn't feel like writing :') but i 100% agree with the fact that people take 1 or 2 bad experiences with mentors and apply it to all of them (or bad experiences in NN) and forget all the times that mentors act just like anyone else, or mentors who are not displaying the crown and are chill and helpful. And i think that indeed a wide variety in mentors is what makes the system good. A single person will not know everything about the game or how to explain it, that's why there can be 100 mentors in NN at a time. Also thanks for making your points about how it's hard to invite people to join, since i joined with a mentor friend and didn't even know you can invite by player search! Also in the original poll i was one of those who mentioned world name and how positive NN was x) i definitely liked the company, having random discussions and questions was nice, i would ask if SCH has any ogcd shields because i was curious, or how to unlock Ishgard restoration and people helped me find the quests necessary (just by writing and showing locations), and even tho being a novice i would occasionally answer stuff that i was confident in the answer. I met with someone to play triple tried for the first time by NN, i helped someone trhu Aurum Vale, etc. It was just a pretty chill place that i didn't mind seeing mostly the same active people and sometimes talk about random stuff. I did feel sad leaving it even ksjfkd either way i know, not every world is like that, sometimes there are really bad situations sadly :/ but that's why report is there! And this comment is already super long but i also find it funny you didn't even mention PVP mentorship and how it doesn't mean anything xD except that's a interesting situation about the symbols. Since there are so few pvp focused people, seeing someone with the pvp flag/crown at least identifies most of the time that this person is "one of us" lol. Idk how they could make pvp mentor an actual useful thing since there's almost no pvp in the game, besides including feat training and the other modes in Mentor roulette. That would be fun. And brings me to a question, do you plan on making a video about pvp even if it's the most basic stuff? Or do you feel like "nah there's probably better people to talk about this"? I would love to see your opinions on pvp :)

Ah man there is so much I want to say with regards to this video but honestly a RU-vid comment doesn't do it justice. As someone who actually has tutored and taught a class I agree with basically all of your points. And I feel like I could make my own 1 hour video providing my own experience to back up your claims. Also I feel like Wesk saw my point about the racism in NN and actually made a point to talk about it in the video and I appreciate that. Great video all around.

hey man love your videos, no one even needs a mentor if they just watch your content :P I admire people like you who are passionate about helping others learn! keep up the good work.

Commenting mostly for the algorithm, but I fully agree that the mentor is currently a your mileage my very kind of system. I’ve had mentors in duty roulette who were healers who refused to DPS and yelled at me in party chat for making them do all the work as their cohealer. Even though the issue was I was using near entirely OGCD healing as Astro or Scholar, and so all they could see was me “Spamming Malefic/Broil.” Apparently if it’s not on my cast bar, I’m not actually healing. But I’ve also had extremely helpful, really skilled players as a mentor too. Who take the time to explain mechanics when asked and also just doing really well in their role. It’s unfortunate that the many bad experiences with mentors I’ve had stand out in my mind more. But… that’s the price of the unique icon I suppose

Some missing context for the top parses in FFLogs: DNC and BRD have some damn high variance because of Feathers/Repertoire. Parse/Speedkill runs like those likely used those jobs because of high how their RNG can roll - imagine getting Flourishes & Feathers on nearly every action, or Repertoire on every DoT tick! That said, that scrub had the wrong approach to begin with; even if he was right in that Dancer *wasn't* speedkill/parsing meta, it doesn't change the fact that you're supposed to bring what you're good at, not what puts out the most DPS on its own, and every job can clear everything just fine - the challenge of high-end content is from playing the encounters while also keeping up with your own rotation (and procs). Look at the first clears of new raids once the encounter's been out for a while, and you'll find that it's mostly grays and maybe a green or two, with wildly disparate jobs for different groups. Wasn't one of the Stormblood Ultimates first cleared with DRK, which was percieved as the worst tank of the three back then?

We don’t need the mentor system with creators such as you around, thanks for all the guides you make. Been playing off and on for a couple years now and I’m still not a great player but that’s due to my own faults, and physical ability (have really bad arthritis in my hands) but you have definitely helped me and others get that extra leg up in our gameplay.

I think an important point too is that the crown doesn't and shouldn't mean "I'm a perfect player who will make no mistakes this duty". People see a mentor make a dumb mistake and will just troll them for it, when we all make mistakes, the fun of the game is just learning from them. I think we also need to be sure to give positive feedback as well as negative. If I see someone saves us from a wipe, I'll give them some kind of happy or cheer emote at least. Its important for mentors to try and model good behavior both gameplay-wise and socially. Admitting you messed up a mechanic is a good way to talk about the mechanic, I think a lot of people don't know mechs and are just saved by chance or good healers that they don't have to do them. But rather than ask or talk about what to do for the mechanic they just say nothing.

I wasn't expecting a musical but I really liked the Dancer song 😀👍

There is one issue that I did notice with the reddit post you used: did the OP notice any gameplay changes after he gave advice? Some of those 'no response' results could have actually taken the advice, like the DRK player starting to use unmend to pull after the OP gave out the advice for example.

You literally taught me everything I know about jobs in this game from when I started in level 1 last year septmember, to me being level 80, now to me having dps , tank and healer at level 80. So I guess I'll listen to you talk for over an hour ,lmao

Man the whole having to be invited to the network is really frustrating, heck I didn't even know about it before I got returner status. When you talk to the smith in hall of the novice the 3 subtopics about mentors and new adventurers should really be swapped. I remember talking to him seeing the options and going I can think about being a mentor after I do a dungeon bye.

Dancers, dancer dancer, bard, dancer dancer dancer. Lol. And me who decided to not lvl dancer and bard. Cool video btw. Keep it up. Make more content. Love to see your Sage guid when it comes out. Gonna be my new main for shure.

Well, now I know there’s a novice network! As a novice, I really wish the game would have put me in there automatically.

Someone on Reddit posted this video and I responded before watching it. Talking about how horrible mentors that I've come across were. They were either bad players or mean to people that they were trying to help. After watching the video, I was reminded of the people that I have attempted to give advice to and how it was either ignored or devolved into them threatening to report me for "harassment." I _still_ think that the requirement for the mentor program is ridiculous. It's basically just "play long enough as healer/tank." But the suggestion for savage is ridiculous. I just had my daughter in December and don't have any time to do a lot of the harder content, but I have leveled all jobs (except BLU, in progress) to level cap and feel like I could absolutely help out new players. This was a good video though, I agree with all of the points made here and would love to see a better system.

A fellow tradecraft mentor working on their battle mentor here. In my personal experience, if you wear the crown regardless of what type they are you're considered as a full mentor by most people regardless so I have to be both knowledgeable and experienced incase anyone asked. I admit I wanted the Mentor status because of the crown icon as a way to motivate myself, but deep down I always wanted to be mentor to help new players because it's fun to help others. So I always try to learn and practice new stuff, heck I even watch several guide videos so I could practice in my spare time. There are times where I have been harrased and flamed by others in dungeon/roulette runs because they say I'm being an elitist or that I shouldn't nagged them about how they play because is their playstyle when in reality I was trying to explain mechanics or trying to recommend/explain them certain skills to improve their playstyle. Heck, I've been flamed just because I'm a mentor. While people come to the game to have fun, but I also realised that time is also an essance so I try to clear trials/dungeons/raids daily as efficient and timely as possible while still having fun. At some point you gotta have to be good at your job you're maining, because let's be honest here; unless you like to spend 40+ mins in a dungeon with your Trust NPC or have some ungodly amount of free time, you don't want to be in a dungeon for 40+ min long with 3 other random people who probably have other commitments after this. Trust me, I have had that experience of people being bad at their jobs/role and have to spend more time than necessary in a dungeon that makes me want to cry because I felt like I'm being a shitty mentor as I cannot help them despite offering help, I don't want to get harrased or being come off as rude to newer players. I even have to put off some of my other commitments just to help these players and sometimes they told me to fuck off or don't criticise how they play. I had to turn off my mentor status just so I could have at least peace to myself and not get attacked. Being mentor has both the good and the bad, but generally it differs from mentor to mentor. I genuinely have helped people and they were kind to me, most of them are good experience but I will occasionally run towards some bad apple.

You have been my mentor, I have watched you job guide videos since my return to ff14 (of which I left b4 HW dropped) my toon was still on wold of darkness. Basically I forgot how to play the game, so I went to a new server and made a new tool and started from scratch. That would not have been possible without your videos (especially the tank class vids) your drk vid, gave me the confidence to take on tanking again.

im not a mentor, but there was this one astro in World of Darkness, where they absolutely ignored me. i asked them to switch of noct sect since i was playing SCH. they were only using aspected benefic and and always out of mana, refused to listen to any advice i gave. im pretty sure they didnt even look at the chat. What hurts though is when i had looked at their search info. they had over 13 jobs at level 70 (me and my friends assumed they bought the level skips + story skip). and this was their first time in WoD. they got lost in the first boss arena for at least 3 minutes too. i wanted to help but they completely ignored me. just. aughh. it was by far the worst WoD ever.

I *do* hold Mentors to a higher standard than other players. All too often have I out dps'ed a mentor as healer, I feel that the mere notion that a player that can't aoe or use damaging spells (on HLR) is somehow allowed to teach new players with any sense of authority is beyond ridiculous. This is because mentors reach sprouts early and might instill their bad habits on them. I do however agree strongly with your point about reporting unfit mentors and - to some extent - I am also guilty of not doing my part by not reporting.

Also people saying NN makes the chat go too fast: just make a different chat log for NN, that's what i did

Thanks for putting into words some of my thoughts regarding the subject but most importantly.. thank you for personifying my internal screaming when I have certain discussions with some people of this community (45:46)

A lot of the problems you mentioned, like crown-hate and daily abuse in the NN... doesn't seem to happen on Moogle, or on the rest of Chaos from what little I see when server-hopping. That might be down to a culture difference between the NA and EU servers, though. Not that we have no drama, but it's more of a monthly thing than daily.

I know the venting at 44:00 was meant to prove a point against the obviously incorrect guy, but every time you said DNC or BRD, my MCH heart died a little inside. That 2% representation is rough.

I like the icon idea, I would make a good mentor but only for Black Mage as that's been my main from the get go, I know it inside and out and would happily help others become a good black mage. Stick me on any other job and I have to look up guides to make sure I'm doing the job properly >.

Me lvl73 novice doing lvl63 Stormblood MSQ: "Wait... There is a novice network?" I mean, I knew there were mentors and they have own roulette, but I never knew about novice network. Maybe I didn't actively looked for it, since I play on a Japanese data center and my knowledge of Japanese is just enough to casually talk with members of my FC, but I'm not sure about actually taking advices ^_^.

I just think the most annoying thing is being expected to know stuff based on sight from certain types of players. I've never dipped my toe into savage content before this tier on account of being new, so sometimes I have a hard time picking up on 'hey this mechanic has dropped puddles after so keep moving' and stuff like that in normal modes. Instead of just saying 'hey this mechanic has dropped puddles/knockback/what have you after it so be careful' certain players get uppity and it's just really irritating. I feel like a lot of it could just be solved by not assuming everyone has perfect MMO knowledge and being willing to explain what seems like inconsequential and obvious things. Because sometimes having that stupid little stuff explained to you helps a LOT. I wouldn't have picked up on half as much as I did if my FC hadn't told me some seemingly-obvious in retrospect stuff.

Man that interjection has me pissing myself laughing thank you Wesk

On the subject of people being held accountable: I've been playing casually for almost a year now. I still don't know how to report someone. I only know how to blacklist. 45:45 This is why I leave questions about stuff I disagree with in the comments. And you have responded several times with good arguments on why you say what you say. To the point where if I wanted to counter them, I had to do the numbers myself. Now for the rebuttal of the suggestions: Instead of removing auto-join for mentors, have it be an option. Dedicated mentors will easily get sick of manually joining every time. Those who take the effort to turn the option on are valid enough to use it. And for my own (probably controversial) suggestions: Have mentors take a test. Something to test their expertise. You mentioned mentors of knowledge and mentors of execution. I'd say there are also mentors of didaction -- those who are good at teaching (I don't think this is a real word in English). For each of the categories you want to specialize in you could take a test. Every category you pass gives you an icon that is lost after not doing well in a category for a certain amount of time. These icons show up on your profile and you can choose one to represent you instead of the crown. These tests will only be offered to you if you have reached the level cap in a corresponding job. A test for execution could be X amount of savage clears. This icon would be lost after not clearing Y amount of savages per month. A test for knowledge could be a community guided multiple choice test. Every so often (every 2 patches?) the current mentors will get a prompt to take a test in their speciality. Aspiring mentors will take the same test. If the aspiring mentors answer similarly to the majority of current mentors, they will be deemed knowledgable in their subject and be granted the mentor status. If a current mentor fails to pass the test twice in a row, their knowledgable status will be revoked. For the didaction test, we will need to first discuss my second suggestion: A feedback system. When a mentor does mentor roulette, at the end of the run, the sprouts will be prompted similar to commends. This prompt will ask "Was [name] a good mentor? Yes/No". Only the opinions of people who bother to vote will be counted. If the yes/no ration drops below 50/50 they lose their mentor status. If the ratio reaches 70/30 they will be considered good at teaching and recieve an icon for that, with perhaps some extra rewards. The didaction test will consist of a "trial run" of mentor roulette that gives no extra rewards. After 10 roulettes or 20 votes, whichever comes first, the aspiring mentors will be graded. If they get a 70/30 rating they will pass the test on the merit of being a good teacher. Each of these tests individually undoubtedly has its own problems (savages being discussed in the video), but by increasing the options I hope to prevent the abuse of one method in particular. Additionally, by adding the means to lose mentorship, it will hopefully prevent long term abuse. (Is mentorship worth buying clears every month?) The feedback system is probably also not perfect, but by limiting it to mentor roulette, I hope it will at least grab the sprout's attention on a rare popup. Enough to have them vote at least.. I'm still a sprout myself, so I'll have plenty of bad ideas for the game. LET THE REBUTTALS COME IN!

i picked up white mage like a month ago and i literally gotten over a 1000 comms just in the time i was leveling it its crazy and a little sad bc whm isnt usually a hard class to play in casual stuff but im also a decent dragoon and thats my main and it never gets recognized lol

Really happy your channel is still picking up steam. We need more quality FFXIV creators like yourself. As for this video, thanks for -pointing out the issues with some 'beginners guides' being very beginner unfriendly. when you started posting yours, I knew you were gonna get a following soon because you were supplying a very high demand that other creators thought was already supplied. -going against the idea of 'emoticons makes it nicer', it feels extremely patronizing, especially when sometimes you get those very clearly passive aggressive ones -that interjected rant

You can get to 80 by beast quests without doing any group content

I am in the camp that random convo in the Novice Network IS a problem. Imagine if there was nothing but linkshell advertisements in General chat, party chat, alliance chat, etc. My point is that a chat ALREADY exists for random banter - General chat. Novice chat should be nothing more than a Q and A type chat with little to no random banter going on. If people want to chat about random things, they should be using the chat that already exist for that purpose - General chat. No - this isn't me trying to be a prick. You can think about it in terms of 2 major perspectives. The first way, is that of the Novice. If I am a Novice with a question, I run the risk of being skipped over/missed due to the clutter or chatting about the latest film or whatever. If I am a Mentor, on the other hand, it's more or less the same issue. I have to wade through all the irrelevant bs for a slim chance of finding someone that actually wants assistance. Lastly, you mentioned you were stalked irl. I'm curious as to HOW this came to be and HOW SE could punish some random bloke in game for something someone did irl? How do you or SE know that this person is the same individual in game, etc. - things of that nature?

It's a real shame cause I like helping new people but novice chat is just a ghost town. I'll say that I am here to help if anyone needs it and I'll get no responses of any kind.

Hello! I was considering becoming a mentor as I’ve had the ability too for a while, but honestly I was nervous about the responsibility that would befall me. I actually didn’t even know the novice network existed I have never seen anything about it before and I’ve been playing for a good couple of months at this point. I think I realize however that being a mentor doesn’t mean I’m the best of the best that can help everyone. I can still learn even as a mentor, I shouldn’t be afraid and I should realize that my knowledge can help other people even if not as much as fellow mentors. I have more to consider however and I probably won’t become a mentor right away. I want to ensure I’m properly able to help people before putting myself in a position to do so, but I definitely will be a lot more open in chats with mentors. If I can make them feel more comfortable with talking to me and thus other players, they may not feel so afraid to help us lol. Very informative video and I appreciate your feedback

I have no issues with the requirements other than the commendations needed. I personally love the mentor roulette. It's the only roulette besides trials that doesn't bore me.

>died multiple times and had the best DPS I'm sorry! I'll try to do better as a healer to keep you up and fighting!

One big reason imho is that novice network is full of people that do idle chitchat nonstop - atleast on my server, it's really counterintuitive for the sole purpose of the mentor/sprout chat and system. The NN also allows a specific amount of people, so that's another thing to consider, atleast if they haven't changed anything. To be honest, I think SE only intended for the whole system to work as a little help to roughly guide newer players into the right directions and give them help, nothing more, nothing less - if they seek it. And for all intends and purposes this works, besides the few bad apples. I dont care if people even do it for ego, aslong they dont behave like assholes. This is also a reason why the rewards for a mentor are so little, and more in the intend of a timesink (as are the mentor requirements), as to provide some guidance for newer players. Mayhaps the system needs to be refined further - you decide if it's good or bad, but imho the spirit of helping others is there, albeit not pefect.