An hour of candid sharing with Tim Freke, Gary Weber and Lisa Cairns 

Gary at 47:50 shows he is not remote but deeply passionate and caring. He really won me over...

I'm so thankful that we have access to this content. What an amazing time to be alive!

I think that Tim is the most adequate person in this talk) so glad I found him in all that non-dual "I don`t exist" movement. Embodying more humanity than before is realy what is great. Thnak you Tim!

While watching the thoughts came; “Why is nonduality so dry? No one ever cries.” I felt stunned listening to Lisa. Like “My god, you’ve become heartless by way of naïveté.” She seemed blinded by her own light. I appreciated Tim speaking of being rescued (in my opinion from something like Lisa’s state) by his child. “Being loving”, not just “loving being”. A beautiful phrase. Warm. I like Gary’s vibe. Seemed matter of fact, cool headed, natural science friendly

It’s sad when people within the non dual arena, deny and invalidate peoples narratives and stories, because those very stories do have a reality, they share a very real human story. A story that deserves to be heard and validated. I relate very much with Tim and his humanness :)

Tim: I have been listening to you all afternoon. I love you!!!

thank you for sharing this speach it is very interesting to see this inter action.

It genuinely hurts my heart you don't have a bigger reach in viewership/following Tim. Your approach to life is so beautiful and powerful yet so balanced, sane and healthy, it could benefit so many out there just as it did my self. I got stuck in a lot of unnecessary confusing pitfalls and battles within my self on my journey of life and awaking, the stuff you talk about just makes so much logical sense.

gOd is the whole and we are the fractions and we all have a different piece of the divine and will all awaken accordingly,to put it in language and make it fit perfectly is to entertain and deal within the jurisdiction of the ego,so they all did their best to put their journey into words.

After watching this I'm getting the impression that Tim has "embodied" spirituality. He has not just stayed in the cave, he has come out of the cave and is walking down the mountain. He is not stuck in the cave. This teaching to me seems healthier.

All ideas are allowed. Ideas will resonate differently under various circumstances.

and thank you for your contribution to this debate tim, it makes so much sence. bringing some balance in this 'non dualistic' quest where we can easily get lost/miss leaded. thinking it is 'bad' or 'non spiritual' or 'binding' to leave / act in this dualistic reallity which is basicaly the dual aspect of the self trying to mimic the non dual aspect ... and this a painfull unsuccessfull approach. Anyway even if this duality is temporary and impermanent denying it's 'reality' , according to my gut, is not balanced.

Tim Freke your way of explaining this is so balanced, I think many seekers need to hear your view on nonduality. For years I was obbsesed with this searching for enlightnement, and I felt that my life was standing in the way of geting THIS, and this led me to frustration, depression, lost my motivation, repressed my feelings, emotions, my common sense witch saw how my life was setting apart, because I thought you can only have THIS or THAT, or with the sacrifice of personal life, of feeling a real person. The I didn t get nonduality, and didnt choose either to feel as a person, and I think we should honour our state of consciousness whatever that may be. Otherwise mental disorders are round the corner:)) I speak from the experience. Thank you so much for this video!

Lisa is not of the ordinary world anymore... I love her childlike grimaces 😆

Its like a spinal tap version of non duality

Love Tim who seems to be at a much deeper level in his journey.

More an exploration of human awkwardness than human consciousness.

Is it compulsory to sit cross-legged when you're non-dual?

I think in a sense gary and lisa have the most genuine account of what oneness, when perceived consistently, leads to. Because I think mindfullness requires you to take a passive role, and if you watch your ego attachments as they arise you can become the watcher of them rather than them, and there after you become a watcher of all things in conciousness, but even to be this passive observer is still an activity, but crucially you don't perceive it as such. Like gary has pointed out, you can flip back into the initial 'you are the ego' after the initial 'becoming the watcher of the ego' quite easily. So i think gary and lisa deliberately made it a habit to become the watcher so they didn't flip back, but what they've inadvertently done is made a habit of being the watcher, which is a very passive state and because the body is so clever its tricked the body into thinking that its no longer a participator in reality which leads to a detachment from the 'participatory' reality that from lisa and gary's perspective most people are stuck in. However I would say that they are stuck in 'observatory' reality. I think being stuck in 'participatory' reality has obvious problems particularly in the realm of human relationships were the attachment overextend and you get into conflicts with people because you read intentions into peoples actions where there is none, in addition there's too much high beta activity going on leading to high levels of stress. However being stuck 'observatory' reality has its own problems: detachment (this is a problem to my mind because you want attachment - just not the hyper-attachment most people have), too much theta/alpha activity leading to a lack of zest for life, lack of get-up-and go - gary puts a positive spin on this when he talks about insights coming when he's in meetings, but I think being effective at your job generally unless your in charge of coming up with innovations, requires more than just great insights. So it seems tim has been able to get into an ideal 'state' (its not really a state but an unfolding process), where he has hit the sweet spot by being on guard enough to prevent flipping back into the ego mode, but has been I think relaxed enough to not go about deliberately making himself the watcher, in order that he won't flip back. In doing this he's be able to remain in a truly non-dual state. Or maybe he did make a habit of 'being the watcher' but it wasn't a well built habit, so he was relatively easily able to break it so that he could be attached to his daughter. Either way I don't think he's living from concepts of non-duality, instead i think non-duality is what is naturally perceived when you get the balance just right between passive activity and active activity, between doership and non-doership.

What's the big deal with not putting your feet on the floor. On trains they have signs up saying to please respect other passengers by not putting your feet on the seats. Do non duality people sit like this on trains? What do they say when they're told off by the guard? It's not okay just because you're non dual and also that doesn't entitle you to use a senior citizen's railcard? I'm also worried about their circulation. They might get some deep vein thrombosis. That can lead to amputations. But I'm sure they know all that. Also I'm worried one of these enlightened people will topple forward off the chair. Nice to see the loopy Lisa bird on form.

Why can`t they sit on their chairs?

Would love to see Lisa and Eckarte tolle together...

Tim is so refreshing. Spirituality is like religion it hasn't really evolved or progressed. They've been beliving the same things for centuries, or in fact milennia. I'd compare it to science, where people like gary can't get there head around what tim is saying any more than einstein could agree with what heisenburg, bohr and pauli (at least those three, i suspect more), concluded about what quantum mechanics meant or was saying about how nature is, becuase einstin couldn't agree to anything that wasn't logical - its so illogical that you can both have a self and not have a self, that both are real and contained within you.

Gary is obviously the only one who is actually self realized. The bald dude is like every other caterpillar I’ve heard talk about being a butterfly. Gary seems to be an actual butterfly amongst a panel of caterpillars

I cant understand, what was the second guy after Ramana that Gary read or found interesting?

I think one of the reasons why this doesn't connect more with the general population is because everyone has their legs crossed on their chairs. That may not seem significant to this audience, but is to the rest of us because already it seems so strange, and we are assuming that they don't know how to relate to the rest of us and to the regular world, the world that they are wanting to convince to thank otherwise. I know that may seem petty, but I'll guarantee you tons of people thought the same thing of how weird it was that no one's legs are touching the floor

She thinks that compassion for others is self absorption. WOW!

Tim, you are so real and alive and in my opinion more alive than the other two. I call it Divine Duality, God’s game and purpose,

Whats so great about being totally unattached? We are not part of some amorphous blob. It is oneness through relationship, not non relationship. A family is one and the members are individuals.

I think just like tim that we need to be attached and have attachments, however i don't see that Lisa and Gary don't have attachments. When i look at this the sense i get is that lisa and gary are just as attached to their beliefs as tim is. Its just the beliefs they're attached to are that they're not attached to anything, aswell as that everything is just happening therefore no free will is possible. So, basically, for me attchments are something we can't get out of anymore than seperateness as tim has said, and its healthy to have these attachments to beliefs providing they're beliefs that serve and support us - this is i believe where they differ, whereby Tim's beliefs that he's attached to have enabled him to lead an enguaged, alert, functional and adaptive life. Whereas the beliefs Lisa and Gary are attached to have led them into a sort of dissociative state, where they don't have any zest for life, and are not fundermentally different from people that have developed a victim mentality becuase they belief everything is just happening to them. To be honest i'm really worried for lisa's mental state. She just seems well just totally dissociated, in a hypnotic trance even, and overall cognitively slow.

The issue with the individual is that it never acknowledges it is transitory.

Tim your on the One, I've only just really discovered your work. The Native American term for Non-Duality, "The Great Mystery"., it's hard to improve on that. You get it. I saw that in your interview with Ken Wilber. You two together were very good indeed. I look forward to watching more of your talks, and reading your books. Truth is a paradox. Cheers mate. Keep up the good work. I'm a Sufi btw, so love what you said about Rumi. He's my main man.

candy sharing yey give me some

Lisa and Gary seem to be both stuck in the Non Duality trap - thinking that they have "arrived". Consequently, they have lost something valuable - their humanity. Can you imagine spending any time with these "awakened" souls? I don't doubt the authenticity of their own experience but only Tim would be any fun.

Is it just me or do many non duality speaker need some time to think about the question and/or seem to have trouble with the memory? When I had my "experience" I've noticed something similar for myself. Is non duality somehow linked to cognitive changes? I remember the video with Mr Sylvester and he also had this short attention span....

Lisa really stuck to the core of what non-duality is, by not indulging in narratives. One can only talk about it in a radical way, because it is more radical than radical. Gary also took great care in articulating what cannot be articulated. Tim feels sticky. Not only in this talk, but also in another talk I saw. There seems to be quite some implicit things he still holds on to. Some kind of hidden bias, even if he tries to dispel that by referring to the big mystery from time to time. My gut feeling is that Gary and Lisa live it fully. Not so for Tim.

It's also very safe to have no attachments at all at all. One could describe is as self-delusional. Born of fear of death? Perhaps.

Matthew 7:1 "Do not judge, or you too will be judged."

I haven't heard before many "non-dual" people speaking, I heard the idea, but not in such extreme, it just doesn't make sense

Why can't they sit on the chair like normal people with feet on the ground?

Awkward!🤗 peace

Out of compassion,they want money and not food offered to them.

painful, aimless meanderings in no man’s land

Of course the stories are not 'real' but they give life its juice! And also because they are not real you don't have to take them seriously. You can enjoy them from a third person perspective as you would if you were watching a TV drama.

why are they sitting like that, its so obnoxious...

Much ado about Nothing!

There is one not realizing he tells a story too, because he thinks he has no story anymore (or a sexual drive), which is ultimately a story.

Gary doesn't really smile does he? I very much resonate with Lisa.

I love nonduality. No I dont. I am you as you are me. Yes you are. No Im not . This comment is not here.

clearly a side effect of enlightenment is sitting criss cross on a chair.

My man is a freake 😅🤝🙏🙌 he prob got a lot of that in school, sorry

Ha ha ha... What did it feel like to have Krishnamurti sitting on either side of you?

No judgement or criticism, just pointing out that every time gary weber is asked about his experience he explains it in the *exact* same words with the *exact* same hand movements - like it's rehearsed.

Would a frontal lobotomy short cut all the discussion?

Tim and Gary have interesting concepts, but concepts they are. Who is this person Gary speaks of never wanting to "go back" Who is this person who will "go for it" or has no thoughts. The contradictions seem to be born from the concepts. Nisargadatta said these concepts come from the body mind. Stay with the sense I am and forget these concepts.

Why does lisa Cairns even bother talking ?

They look so uncomfortable sitting cross legged on those chairs :(

This is no sense at all to recomend people to that what is ...only for the ones how are ready!!!! In my case i did not WANT but has no way to go back to hell!

Each one of them is different. Gary most likely had a mini stoke years ago sprinkled with ED. Lisa has a learning disability that has shaped her coping style of just accepting what is now, due to bullies, memory loss or some kind of trauma. Tim is basically normal, he just thinks too much and gets really excited.

For me, Gary Weber has one of the most dichotomous worldviews I've ever encountered. If he needs a materialist explanation for his argument, he'll go with that. But if he needs a "non-materialist" argument to explain his views, he's just as likely to go with that. This constant straddling of opposing worldviews makes his overall message really muddled. Cheers.

It seems that there's a great deal of Spiritual-bypassing going on here (Not Tim mind you) in this talk. Lisa seems vague and painfully uncomfortable in her skin, remnants of trauma perhaps? And Gary seems like a bit of a grouch to be honest, no emotion, no sex, no desire...no life. It sounds like a total yawnfest.

As someone new to this way of thinking and trying to assimilate not only the concepts but also the practical implication/application, I find Lisa and Gary a bit less helpful than Tim, maybe a lot. I love the videos I've seen of Tim and I find his method of deliver much more helpful and applicable. This question that Lisa keeps asking "Who do you think you see out there?" and then answers it with "It's only me projecting onto them my own suffering then being sad by that" while it might be true from a certain perspective, fails utterly from a different perspective. I like to use altitude analogies because when I apply her idea from 30,000 feet, or to say it differently, when I'm contemplating overarching spiritual matters or universal truths or something like that, it's pretty easy to understand. But when I'm on the ground level, watching a friend or loved one going through some really painful event in their lives, it doesn't seem to help at all. I mean try going up to a homeless person or someone suffering in a hospital and tell them "You're not really suffering, I'm just projecting onto you my past suffering...get up" and see how that goes. Her question isn't helpful - maybe it is to her but not to me trying to understand these concepts because it seems to ignore real life stuff that we all have to deal with on and day-to-day basis. Tim is amazing and has a great channel here on YT.

Tim doesnt really know what he is talking about. That is why Lisa decided to remain silence. He should be a Christian preacher. Believes are important in religion but not in reality.

Lisa sounds like a three-year-old. Past her bedtime I think.

Gary is deeply egoic when he talks about how he live non-duality and how profound his state of consciousness is. He talk about love with so many obscure words and sadness. There is something missing and extreme here.

I’m instantly turned off by the fact they are all sitting cross legged. I bet one of them did it and then they all started doing it just incase they didn’t seem enlightened.

These people are still attached and judgemental. Why do they think if your body is healthy and you have a wife and kids then you should be happy? Those things are not a solution to life. they come and go.

Tim took a load of MDMA . He wants it all, a Christ who has a place to rest his head. Drugs can do that.

My God, this is all absolute drivel. How do people get away with this nonsense?

dear lord lisa is irritating