Longest Video so far on this channel, hope you will have fun and will not be bored. Comment who is your favorite Grey Giant, Argoth Stone Skin or Torgold the Grim?
I think I would have a more developed opinion on which of them is better if I actually had the World of Ice and Fire, rather than just Fire and Blood. But, with my limited knowledge, I will say Torgold the Grim.
The fact that the Andals took some creative liberties when (re)writing history doesn't surprise me. Between the Faith of the Seven and the Maesters, Andal culture seems to emphasize a totalitarian form of governance, more so than the other regimes in the Known World we've read about. We can see it with Baelor ordering the purging of Septon Barth's work, and in the show we see it with the idea that the cure for greyscale (at least in its early stages of infection) had been known by those in the Citadel for years, but no one in recent memory before Samwell Tarly attempted the cure. It's not necessarily magic that Oldtown has an issue with (they tolerate the Alchemists' Guild in King's Landing after all), but rather *any* information or power that moves society forward and reduces Oldtown's power base in Westeros and beyond.
Fantastic deep dive! 👏👏👏 The bit at the end about them possibly having helped erase early history to hide their actions leading up to the long night caught me by surprise. There are indeed a few strange things about the faith of the seven, with the standout amongst the seven aspects of their god being the star-eyed stranger, the symbol of the warrior sons being a crystal sword, the starry sept being all dark and invoking night imagery...
The Andals are the biggest Liars in the whole damn story lol. They say the First Men only wrote runes on rocks yet the First Men established the Citadel before the Long Night. They say they brought Modern Architecture to Westeros, yet Storm’s End, the Hightower, and the Oldest Towers of Winterfell exist. They say they are a Tall Fair Haired people and the First Men were short and Dark Haired yet the Official Artwork has it as the other way around. They say the Faith has been worshipped since there have been Andals yet there isn’t a single Ruin of a Sept in all of Essos. If an Andal said it, it’s a lie lol
χαῖρε ! As you well know, (K)arlon the Great, "King of all the Andals" (aka Karlemangne) was my direct ancestor and name sake, obviously. The name "Andal" is great GRRMy wordplay on the IRL "(V)andals" who were a Germanic People that moved into the Iberian Peninsula, Mediterranean islands, and North Africa in the fifth century, eventually conquering Rome itself, from which we get our modern term "Vandalism". The Spanish City of "(V)Andalusia" sill bears their name. Hail Qarl!
Oh nice, Andals and Vandals! I can't believe I never noticed that. Huh, that makes me think. Andals. Vandals. Andalos. Andalusia. Vandalusia. Valyria. Same name, just evolved over time.
Given that Westeros is very loosely based off of Great Britain, then the Children of the Forest are the mythical Fomoreans, the First Men are the Bronze-wielding chariot driving Bell Beakers and later Celts, and the Andals are the Anglos
From, Jon VII A Game of Thrones: '...In the darkness, the Others came riding, she used to say, dropping her voice, lower and lower. Cold and dead they were, and they hated iron and fire and the touch of the sun, and every living creature with hot blood in its veins...' Might be an anachronism, but how would the Others hate iron, if there weren't Andals to wield it? (Excepting of course the Ironborn)
And Meera swore by bronze and iron as well. That being said I think that the first men might have known about iron and just couldn't make steel. Iron weapons are very brittle so they were using bronze. That being said there are many weird stories around that point that the andals arrived there much earlier.
The progression between Civilization's Development in Asoiaf seems similar to an Arms race of sorts. Humans using Fire to force iron, then steel, then Valyrian Steel, then Dragons. The heat gets hotter as the cold gets colder, and the Green of the world becomes increasingly diminished.
Great. I think you should reference the GeoD more as I think that the great clarifying factor here. Ironborn and Hightowers are both similar because they both are GeoD. GEoD also is the origin of Valyria and therefore probably the other Andal populations later.
I always viewed the named of the Hoare kings as propaganda by the drowned priests like how maegor is called the cruel like they were cranking down on the priests power to the point the three harmunds could exist and hence were called this
Their main issue was the faith for sure. Religion aside if any other House from the Isles achieved and did what the Hoars did they would say they were the tits😂
Indeed, and I think that the whole situation with the citadel might be similar to many Victorian-era writers. They were using the term Anglo-Saxon to legitimize and defend colonialism and violate the rights of certain groups of people, they were saying that Anglo-Saxon heritage was superior to those held by the colonized peoples, so it's ok to "civilize" them or consider them uncivilized. Something that we see in the novels and sadly many people still use it as an excuse irl. Thanks for the tip❣
I think he might be riffing more on the Vandals = Andals wordplay. Still Germanic invaders from the "East" (Modern Southern Poland) who swept down into Gaul, Rome, Spain, across Gibraltar and into North Africa. They had a much wider reach across Europe than the roughly contemporary Anglo-Saxons, who really only went West in to the British Isles. "Andalos" is obviously an allusion to IRL Andalusia (City of the Vandals) in Spain, as well. If GRRM was playing with the Anglo-Saxons, he would've named the book version the Vanglo-Vaxons or something silly, I bet. Cheers :)
The Andals were likely a group that migrated and acted as sellswords within Westeros. They are even described as “chieftains” to “river kings” not lords and nobles themselves. The highly mythological version of the andal invasion is likely an almost total lie. Much like how the Vikings married into many of the noble house of Europe after they christianized. One thing I find strange though… is that the Andals never conquered any kingdoms other than the Riverlands and the Vale. I believe their cultural impact on Westeros may have been extremely overstated and that the true source of many of Westeros’ traditions is likely the Men of Oldtown. Lords from across Westeros use the maesters to teach their children and are likely the vehicle by which the common tongue spread throughout Westeros. I believe that the faith of the seven is an offshoot of the church of starry wisdom. As the proud owners of a scrying tower themselves it is very likely the faiths focus on the worship of a clear crystal that refracts light. This crystal was likely the original light at the top of the Hightower. Looking like 7 sided a pillar of clear salt. It worked much the same as a glass candle but was FAR stronger and shone a multicolored rainbow light. When the Hightower was raided by house Dayne. house Dayne took this crystal and fashioned a sword from it. From afar during night, and when lit the Hightower looked like a bright rainbow star
Finished watching your video. Found it last night and it's such a breath of fresh air you dive so deep into the lore but your organized your video well that others don't do. Edit: I forgot to add I recogonize the music! It's from Blue Turtle
The Valerions doesn’t make since being before the breaking of the arm. Also why would the Targs recognize them and the Celtigars but not the others in Dorne or Hightowers and Iron men. The Valerions and Celtigars would have to be a later arrival.
I didn't say the Velaryons came with the ones in Dorne or the Hightowers, I said that they have a lot of parallels and similarities, which they do. Velaryons and Celtigars are Valyrians, they know they are Valyrians, they left when the freehold was already a thing. Ironborn, HItowers, Andals were most likely from the surrounding area, but way before dragons soooo.... If I had to place them somewhere I would say the same time Norvoshi, Lorathi, and Qohorik left because of the religious schism (1,5-2k years ago, let's not forget that Driftmark was there before the Freehold built Dragonstone, and from what I understand meaning more than 600 years). Velyrons and Celtigars look like they do have a different religion and are somewhat devout at least the former, plus after all the colonies and new ports, it is pretty possible places where other Valyrian families controlled trade and not royals and dragonlords were on a down, so they left.
It is amazing yo me just how much knowledge and understanding you show in these video essays you do, and being the longest one of yours i have seen so far, it is definitely amazing and well made! I was wondering, you didnt seem to touch on this too much: doesnt it strike as odd that the Andals supposedly tried and failed again and again to get a foothold in the north but broke themselves in the Neck? It seems to me, that if they really wanted to conquer the north, they might have thought about taking ships to the eastern shore instead of fighting a lost cause in the Neck. After all, thats how they overcame the Vale. Am i missing something there? Also, the thing that makes me personally doubt the whole histories of Westeros written in the books and all that - is that point made by GRRM quite a while ago, about how he used to learn real world history and came upon a building that was not too old, but some histories mentioned it had 14 stories and some histories said it only had 12 or something like that... Its a great story to introduce doubt about history in Georges writings... Perhaps you could address that in a video? Unless you already have 😅
I think that the Neck situation happened before the long night. About other Andals with ships, similar to what happened with Argos after the LN, probably did happen, but if weather, coastline, and battles were much more difficult since we know the Northmen fought back and even started attacking Andalos why keep trying? Because let's be honest it's not like the North is the lottery of regions😂 Bad Weather, not very fertile, all in all, meh. Glad you like the video and thanks for watching!
It makes me sad because i don'tthink ourBig boy will finnish the books . I love that others think about it like me sometimes /. Ta cat and yur awmad readers !
I don't know about heretics, but to me too looks like they shifted religion during that time. Bloodstone did it, Stannis currently did it, so I wouldn't find it that weird
I would like to counter your claim that the Andals are from Valyria with a claim of my own. The Andals most likely came from the sea much like the Ironborn. Most likely survivors from the hammer of the waters. Before this their genetics may be Valyrian but that was the culturally defining moment for them. Valyrian genetics likely didn’t become special until the Valyrians made it special through “blood magic” The most convincing connection to Andal culture are the bearded priests of Norvos who’s god remains unnamed and who’s priesthood is Martial and obsessed with axes. I think the religious tradition of knighthood came from the position of the bearded priests and that position being associated with Westerosi knightly customs. But we see their obsession with axes is short lived in the vale alone. Afterwards I believe the commonfolk took up the seven in zealous pursuit of justice against the magical aristocracy. I believe Norvos may also have some anti-magic tendencies in their founding as they were founded by people who found Valyria’s religious tolerance quite intolerable. I believe what the Andals brought was a resistance to and hatred for magical nobility. The Thenn of the far north still actually practice feudalism. It’s very very likely that feudalism is a first men tradition, and that during the age of heroes first man nobility was considered semi divine if the Thenns are to be any blueprint for ancient first men customs We have almost no accounts of the Andals practicing feudalism before their migration. Most descriptions of them they seem more like Viking chieftains than actual feudal lords. What definitely did happen was a large scale uprising against magic users. The common folk were tired of the lords right and having to cowtow to feudal gods. This is the era I like to call the era of the green kings where Westeros was ruled almost exclusively by warg kings who had the ability to skinchange and the feudal system was based upon that. House Hightower is a special case as well as I don’t think the faith of the seven is the same as the faith or Norvos. I think it is a syncretic faith invented by House Hightower To explain the various local gods of the first men. After Norvos was founded they emphatically started to try to force this religion amongst the local population.
F*ck me, I answered a whole essay and I lost it by accident😂😭 I haven't forgotten it, I will answer when I have access to my laptop. Thanks for commenting!
@@CompanyOfTheCatI’m gonna update my whole theory. The Andals were likely far less relevant to Westerosi culture than the histories state. The cult of Norvos and bearded priests likely worship a monotheistic God and then came to Westeros introducing the religious system of knighthood but not the feudal system or even horse riding. I believe the Norvoshi Andals reached as far as the Riverlands. after that the faith of the seven became much more militant and widespread amongst the common born first men. They sent crusades against the Magnars of the first men. These Magnars derived their authority from their divine ancestry, much like the Roman and Japanese aristocracy did. This is supported by the fact that the Gardner Kings claimed descent from Garth the Gardner the Hroares claimed descent from the grey kings, and the Durrandons claimed descent from the Storm God. Castles are also definitely a first men tradition as we see with Winterfell, Storms End, and the Highgarden. It’s more than likely most of Andal culture is more so pinned on Oldtown rather than the Andals themselves. The faith has been headed at Oldtown longer than it has anywhere else and the Maesters, the people who educate almost every lord in the seven kingdoms come from Oldtown as well. The Andals are also confusingly called Tall and fair haired. Which is confusing because neither of those traits are exclusive to Andals. Plenty of first men have blond hair and first men are takker than almost any population that can be found in Essos. Andals likely only are prevalent in the Vale and Riverlands, bringing Iron, but over hundreds of years the religions of the old gods and that of the ancient Andals mixed. But the majority of Westeros is almost certainly of First Men blood. Nothing related to Westerosi tradition is seen remaining in Essos from the Andals and it’s very likely Hugor of the Hill and the seven walking among the Andals was just made up.
@@CompanyOfTheCat Than the problem lies with me and perhaps I require some more caffeine. Anyway a thank you is in order for all the effort you put into making these videos so thanks for taking the time.
Would be helpful if you talked a little slower. Your speed, combined with your accent, makes things hard to understand. There's no need to change an accent (I have one myself), but the speed can definitely be slowed down a little.
I am trying, to talk slower, but I talk very fast in general, like this is my slower. I have captions if it helps in all of my videos for this reason exactly.
@@CompanyOfTheCat I'm new to your channel and I didn't think it was a problem before because I paid full attention. But I noticed it this time because I was listening to you while relaxing (with my eyes closed) and trying to sleep. I like casually listening to theories and stuff while trying to sleep, so I wasn't as focussed as I was when watching your other videos, which is when I realized that I was having a hard time. It's not a major issue, but it's definitely something that can be improved a bit imo. Either way, I've been enjoying some of your videos for the past week. So thanks for the uploads and keep on making more! Cheers :)
