The Phantom of the Opera theme vs. Pink Floyd's Echoes is a spot on match. Little wonder that Roger Waters has been taking swipes at Lloyd Webber for the last 30+ years.
"Yeah, the beginning of that bloody Phantom song is from Echoes. *DAAAA-da-da-da-da-da* . I couldn't believe it when I heard it. It's the same time signature - it's 12/8 - and it's the same structure and it's the same notes and it's the same everything. Bastard. It probably is actionable. It really is! But I think that life's too long to bother with suing Andrew fucking Lloyd Webber." - Roger Waters
Accused of plagiarism once- could be an accident. Accused twice- looks suspicious but could still be co-incidence. Accused three times- very suspicious but OK....... But accused 6+ times........ Speaks for itself really.
Wow. Even someone like me who has no knowledge of the technicalities of composing music can tell some of these were blatantly stolen. "Echoes" and the "Phantom" theme are the exact same thing. And here's the irony--up until his musical, most versions of "Phantom" had been about a composer (the future Phantom) seeking revenge for having his music plagiarized.
jesus...I used to write off the echoes/poto similarity...it's funny, I actually saw phantom first then heard echoes years later and thought wow this sounds really familiar...but I mean come on...both songs not only use the EXACT same notes (literally the same notes, not just the same notes relative to eachother) but they're at almost the exact same tempo...hearing them back to back really changes my mind on that one...the music of the night one bums me out too...that's such a beautiful song
there's no doubt webber drew "inspiration" (to put it lightly) from these melodies...the other thing is that sometimes, as a songwriter/composer, I think it's very easy to be subconsciously inspired by music that has made an impact on you at one point, even if you aren't intentionally ripping something off...there could be some of that happening too... but a lot of these are even in the same fucking key...that's pretty difficult to ignore, unless someone modulated them for easier comparison, which doesn't sound like the case...it's still tough to say for certain when it comes to him intentionally plagiarizing...it would take an enormous set of balls to be this brazen about it
+manifestgtr So basically you are saying that the tracks are so similar that there's no way he did it intentionally, because who would to something like that?
You may as well find the tune of “Passing bells and sculpted angels…” from the song “Wishing You Were Somehow Here again” (POTO) quite similar to the Larghetto of Antonin Dvorak’s Serenade for Strings.
You know in music sometimes there's nothing you can do if there are similarities between your music and the music that you hear that influences you on a subconscious level. But these examples clearly illustrate that there was blatant and overt plagiarism on the part of Lloyd Webber.
The pink Floyd and puccinni ones were the only convinvincing ones on that set. Sink pink Floyd didn't sue its probably a non issue. As for many of the older ones, using riffs from classics is entirely common and a non issue.
Now I know why I liked Phantom so much as a wee urchin, because it was actually Roger Waters' music which became my favorite in late child and early adulthood. And still is. If you want to compose good music--screw it--you can steal from Waters.
There's similarities in "Love Never Dies" too. Beneath a Moonless Sky has hints of "Sallys Song" from Nightmare Before Christmas, and "Beauty Underneath" is similar to "Insanity" from Oingo Boingo. Both Danny Elfman works, funnily enough.
It makes me sad. I saw a performance of "The Phantom of the Opera" a few weeks ago, and it was amazing. I still can't get over the music, especially the main theme and "Music of the Night". Then, I hear this.
Pink Floyd Meddle, one of my favorite albums. Echoes, one of my favorite songs on that album, next to One of These Days. I'm surprised he didn't steal the song Seamus The Dog on the same Pink Floyd album. Love that song.
have I been so naive all these years? I had heard about Webber 'being inspired by' several times before, but this clip is quite an eyeopener. This is well, shocking!
OMG, there is no end! I am wondering if ALW ever wrote a single note, or is he the great musical broker of our time? You have to admit, there is alot of creativity going on in his productions...
I just want to put out that Webber grew up around all kinds of music so it is very possible for songs to sound a like. There are definitely some ones that are way beyond coincidence, but the growing up around music is something to keep in mind.
Did you not see "Forget Paris"? Billy Crystal points out that the first phrase of "Music of the Night" is practically the same as that of "School Days"
Actually, his most blatant of all was Memories from Cats. the music was note for note from some obscure clarinet piece by an American composer from the 1930s . Unfortunately, I cannot recall either the composer's name or the name of the piece of music. A music expert played it in its entirety on a local Dallas/Ft. Worth radio station WRR with a reference to its famous re-incarnation.
I'm not really hearing this.. I mean sure there is similarity, but it's not like it's an exact copy, and you could easily find other songs that sound similar to others, but that doesn't necessarily make it stolen. I'll grant the Pink Floyd one was a bit too close but the others... I dunno. The Rosemary one is the LEAST convincing it's debatable. and it certainly wouldn't hold up in court if it were a lawsuit
it's for sure copied, but the question is if it was intentional. You know, as a musician it happened to me also, to write some music, and later you recognize "oh shit, it sound like....". It's because everything we hear influences us. And we don't notice. Our brain sucks up everything we hear, also to a subconscious level. So it happens that you think you found a great melody, and only months or even years later you notice "oooops......" then it's to late.
La Franciullua Del West has the almost exact sameword, when translated, as The Music of the Nigh, Echos was done by my favourite band, so I say Plagiarist
I obviously heard Ravel's song first. All my life (until a few minutes ago) I thought the Cats song was a version of it somebody had made with silly lyrics, I can't believe it was meant to be taken as an original song!
ALSO, I just noticed this the other day. The song "Green Tambourine" by the Lemon Pipers is pretty INCREDIBLY similar to the intro to "Another Suitcase in Another Hall" from Evita. See for yourself.
I can not agree. There is no plagiarism from Ravel "Bolero". I think Lloyd Weber took it form Imants Kalnins "Vini dejoja vienu vasaru" written in 1967. But "Cats" / Memory was written in 1981 !! Write in You Tube - Viņi dejoja vienu vasaru/Memory and you will see difference..
I think also the melody of "Un bel di vedremo...." from Puccini's Madam Butterfly is simlar to "...hearts may get broken love endures...." from Love Never Dies
The one piece which Lloyd-Webber hasn't 'nodded to', at least as far as I can tell, is Pachelbel's Canon. Many composers use that; he doesn't seem to have done so.
Namllib In the case of Pink Floyd, the lead singer said "Life's too short to sue Andrew f****** Lloyd-Webber." Lloyd-Webber counter-sued Repp, claiming that he actually stole "Till You" from his song "Close Every Door," which he says was the real influence on Phantom...and he won the counter-suet. The Rosemary/Jesus Christ one had a poor example played, and is better compared with the _beginning_ of Superstar rather than the middle. As for the public domain ones, they might be but often families or organizations take the pieces over to be copyrighted. I think the most likely to be public is the Ravel one, though I could be wrong.
I can't believe this video omits the most laughably obvious example of Webber's plagiarism: "On this Night of a Thousand Stars" from EVITA is a carbon-copy of Pérez Prado's 1955 hit "Cherry Pink and Apple Blossom White."
Look like the rumor is true. But that doesn't stop him from being a genius. After all, few have such good ears for good melodies, not to mention putting them together in great stories. He's both a plagiarist and a Genius. I still love his music
LLoyd Weber admitted once on a TV special, that he did plagiarized Puccini in Cats and Phantom, and got away with it. I was actually looking to see if somebody had uploaded the clip when I got here.
"Yeah, the beginning of that bloody Phantom song is from Echoes. *DAAAA-da-da-da-da-da* [sic]. I couldn't believe it when I heard it. It's the same time signature - it's 12/8 - and it's the same structure and it's the same notes and it's the same everything. It probably is actionable. It really is! But I think that life's too long to bother with suing Andrew fucking Lloyd Webber." -Roger Waters' comment on the situation.
@aMgVbros4aetas You are right, Mr. Musical Genius. Both songs are in 4/4. Waters was mistaken. But the similarity still stands regardless. And, as people have pointed out, its called transposition(changing keys of songs but maintaining the solfege structure). Transposition is not the same as composition.
Totally. I didn't know "Think of Me", but I played it this week with an orchestra. Immediately I was singing "I'm all out of love!" I wonder why they haven't sued him, must have been an out-of-court-settlement back then no-one knew about.
Ok - you could try these 2 i thought of: Ghost Riders in the Sky - Growltiger (from Cats) Sounds like a "variation" to me! Sorry - can't seem to give the direct links.
Good work.There's certain to be more. Has he got away with it? At £25 million a year he's doing well out of it. Musical Theatre is subject to a different royalties collection framework. He uses licensing as his income stream.
I believe he wound up settling with the Puccini family descendants over his plagiarizing "The Girl of the Golden West". "Music of the Night" and "Quello che tacete" have the identical passage....the passage that makes Webber's song so terrific!
Hi Namo these to your web. Excellent - I have been preaching for years about this subject. Firstly, Maz, Bolero and Memory are a positive..... write the notes down on thin paper and overlay. Yes, a couple of notes different, but I realised the "coincidence" the day it was released. Namo you found a couple I hadn't realised but perhaps you would like to add these ..... No Matter what / Nessun Dorma and Joseph and his Technicolour Dreamcoat / middle section of Rondo a la Turk. Well done!
The main riff from "Heaven on their Minds" is also quite similar to Pink Floyd's "Let There Be More Light". Not a big fan of Webber, but I do love Jesus Christ Superstar.
Hmm, it's a bit like George Harrison and He's So Fine. It's highly unlikely that he consciously used the same tune, but it does lurk there in the deep recesses of the brain, and can come up as "inspiration". I'm pretty sure Lloyd Webber wouldn't have knowingly copied from Pink Floyd, probably not his choice of music- but he might have heard it once and later it kind of popped out.
+James Tucker Agreed. It's not like he took an obscure passage from Brahms' piece either. Rather, he took from the opening theme of the third movement! It's kind of similar to how he used Mendelssohn's violin concerto. You'd think he'd be more discreet about it!
Can't stand Lloyd Webber as a man, but as a composer he is certainly not the only alleged plagiarist. Boubil and Schronberg (seem to have) ripped 'Bring Him Home' in Les Mis straight from Puccini's Whispering Chrous in Madama Butterfly.
Ran into him today on Broadway next to Stardust (his new show is opening up beside it). Odd looking fellow. Rather large head. Also ran into John Waters at Tiffanys and Kevin Corrigan at JFK all in the same day. Unexpected treats all around.
Don't see how he got away with it since he is paying/paid major dinar to the Puccini esate. Again I must share my bitter confusement with Puccini. How can someone slaughter the very songbirds that inspired his masterpieces? He is my favorite composer and I cannot resolve this.
