Animation Breakdown: SSJ3 Goku VS Janemba - Tadayoshi Yamamuro 

Agreed it's an excellent design, props to Yamamuro!

I think the way Janemba looks in Dragon Ball Heroes is even better

@@MajinSprite tripping but u do u

Just a one off, but I noticed in DBFZ that Cooler 5th form and Janemba are very similar in character design. Other than that I think it's unique. I'm sure there's a whole chain of characters similar to each other, building from the first to the last.

Well back in day they weren't worked to death and peanuts for salary

The thing I liked about the later movies was that the directors at the time knew how to make the line work clean while still retaining its variety and roughness without it going off model. And the older movies tended to stay on model a lot more consistently if not seamlessly compared to the modern stuff.

@@GeteMachine Battle of gods and Resurrection F were incredibly on model, Yamamuro corrected just about everything much like he did in the 90's.

@@forgottenrelics1197 The art was crap though and the animation wasn't as fluid as the older movies.

@Empty Glass They still had time.

Reliving the moment in dragon ball fighterz.

Goku's and janembas transformation is probably my favorite in all the series.

The best

That’s a nice detail to bring up! Often time you’re fighting someone who isn’t necessarily using the same techniques as you

Absolutely

💯

@MAID IN HEAVEN FAN 🅥 english isn't my first language 😅

@@christopher_silver Inazuma Eleven is my childhood too man ✨

Yup

You could still have good choreography and be flashy and fast. That's not really the reason Super fights are bad.

@@alexism9656 *You could still have good choreography and be flashy and fast* A good example of that is all of the fights in DBS: Broly. And episodes 129-131 of Super.

@@alexism9656 Super's fights are bad because they're generic movements and very repetitive. The AATATATATATATATATATA meme came from that. While any time the animators just focus on the power ups and explosions it ends up poorly showing believable scaling between the characters due to how we naturally think the flashier fights are the stronger characters are. Even compared to the original Broly film and most of the movies, the fights always had clear choreography and consistent scaling between the characters in the fights. After Z, all they do is just over the top exaggerated stuff for superficial hype. A lot like Mastarmedia's fanmade stuff.

@@GeteMachine You're completely ignoring all the times Super was good and all the times Z was bad. I'll admit, late Z was more consistant than Super, but Z also did all the things that people complain about in Super and Super also did the things people praise in Z. I can't say Goku said "atatata" a lot in Z, because I watch dub, but he still definetly did that type of animation.

Thank YOU, I agree totally. The abuse of fast camera flipping /Paning/ tracking in modern DB (Brolly movie) takes away the appreciation for the details, poses and impact of the scenes. I fell them quite TIRING to watch compared to GOAT era of DBZ.

Facts, i hope they do this kind of stuff again if the anime comes back

Dragon Ball Z has plenty of that haha, certainly not something exclusive to this era

@@forgottenrelics1197 Yeah u right but at the same time i still feel dbz did it better anyway 😁

Both dbs and dbz have times where its just throwing punches and blasts and also well animated scenes.

@@DeanAmx but dbz does it way better tho

@@forgottenrelics1197 agree but it still does it way better

Ahhh that makes so much more sense, thanks for letting me know! I remember thinking that the ears looked a little different than Yamamuro's, and the linework felt more sharper/narrow than his work as well. But I stuck to Yamamuro because it seemed odd to have someone else finish off such a small scene. Would you also have a link to the genga by any chance, would love to see it :)

고마워, 이제 굴라그로 돌아가

@@forgottenrelics1197 no problem, have a nice trip back there

No problem! And yes I definitely miss the colour palette from this period, thankfully they did an overhaul with DBS Broly though so I hope the series continues to remain with warm palettes.

@@forgottenrelics1197 I absolutely hope so! Do you plan on doing breakdowns on any of the DBZ intros?

@@mikes3kgt Not atm man, but then again I never planned to break down GT's so who knows haha

@@forgottenrelics1197 Love the fact that you reply! I’ve been following for a long time! Maybe some video game intro breakdowns? Android/Cell saga stuff would be lovely! 👌🏼 Cheers mate!

Definitely agree, he seemed to have got used the form in the very early episodes but that was completed nullified by Beerus. I really love that glare with SSJ3 as well and Yamamuro definitely nails it!

Thanks as always man!

It's an excellent film, but saying DBS Broly pales in comparison is a slight exaggeration.

Although it is a shame that recently also his animation skills have also started to decrease along with his artwork

Yeah Yamamuro didn't seem to have enjoyed that part haha

Its really the overuse of the ugly highlights. I still like is Z era models a bit more than Shintani's because the angularity and longer faces just look better. It makes the characters feel stronger and have volume to them. Yamamuro's problem was the gradual decay he had giving them more of a blockier anatomy after Z. It just decayed over time. Yo Son Goku & Friends was the only time Yamamuro's designs didnt have that glossy, plastic post-Z. The colors were generally better, which made his designs looked better. Like in Z.

The simple answer is he didn't watched any other anime outside of what he worked on leading to his work getting stale. He also seemed to have got comfortable with were he was skill wise. In terms of bland colour palletes though, they seem to be an industry trend in the early 2000's however is something he seems to have stuck to.

Yeah the fact they did it back then completely hand-drawn shows the level of skill and effort to make it.

Is this a script from AnimeAjay's video?

@@harishanimeart I got inspired of his video with him saying this part: "Yamamuro is a competent artist and really fast (with my "to get his work done on time"). It's a shame of his decline from a former DB legend to his approach after GT, it's nice to see him move to Heroes for a time being and allow the young talents to take over the franchise with the Broly film."

It's kinda impossible for a weekly episodic series to match the quality of a movie in terms of artwork and animation. Movies naturally will have more time and usually assemble the top animators from the series.

@@forgottenrelics1197 I think it's possible if studios weren't being rushed b/c of the tv scheduling. I stated last week that I started watching Dragonball GT a few weeks ago and I notice the overall art work is better drawn the Z. There's fewer bad drawn episodes on there. GT might have more staff to help with their episodes. Uchiyama's episodes still stand out badly. His work could be better if he had more staffers on his team. I think he has the lowest staff studio. So the work load was heavier on him and Ohara. His work could be more detailed if he had more help and had time to work on adapting his style.

@@MrB-bg7qe If it was a seasonal anime, perhaps something around that level would be somewhat possible. With Uchiyama though it wouldn't matter what talented animators he had under him because the majority of the time he would just correct them anyway. In the Buu arc, it became worse with him being even stronger on corrections despite it just being him and Ohara.

Ayee thank you!!

This scene was already credited to him on Sakguabooru, I believe it was confirmed through genga. With Keisuke Masunaga his style is incredibly distinctive so that was an easy spot :)

Yeah Super and DBS Broly has some superb action animation! I think this scene is still great though :)

Greatest filler fight in the history of Dragon Ball and best of all It’s a well deserved SSJ2 moment.

@@tylerellis9097 Top Tier Anime Choreography

Yeah man I was leaning to the same conclusion in regards to some of out of place shots, definitely the most likely reason.

haha thanks!

yo

Seriously. I just came to check to make sure this channel wasn't purged by Toei.

​@@Metalwario64toei sucks balls

Super was notorious for having a terrible production schedule with little pre-production time, even though it had many great animators including many who were on this film :)

@@forgottenrelics1197 yeah i know, that's part of the problem. they shouldn't have rushed it. i'd rather wait for a great and well produced master piece then get crap every week

Kinda everything you mentioned haha. I started taking art seriously in 2017, drawing every day, then went to University in 2018 with a course that covered art and graphic design. Then continued on with other online courses/books throughout the following years :)

@@forgottenrelics1197 thats cool what are you up to now only youtube or you still going to uni?

It's not uncommon for there to be unused cuts within a sequence and my guess is that 4:18 was a leftover from that (Hisada's ssj1 scene in this film is an example), could be wrong, but regardless it still seems to be an error in terms of framing.

@@forgottenrelics1197 You know animation better than me, so you may be right. But I always thought that maybe Goku faked out Janemba as if he was gonna strike from behind but instead hit him head on to essentially "sneak" a clean hit

@@Memarzuq That's not a bad conclusion, again though I wonder if he was originally animated to have teleported behind, but that cut was removed. The fact that Goku appears in a bunch of speed lines much like when using instant transition definitely makes it possible.

I'm kinda unsure what you mean, the overlapping action of hair can vary depending on what direction the character is moving, so sometimes having it swinging off to the side is a valid approach. Could you give an example of what you meant :)

@@forgottenrelics1197 I was unsure what I meant too. That comment is a bit mindless upon reflection. I‘ve gone back and looked at the SS3 designs, and I’ve discovered that I just really like the design a lot better from the front or back than from the side or 3/4. Toriyama’s very first manga panel of SS3 is 3/4! Thanks for helping me clear up this nebulous misconception I’ve held!

Sounds like an Ebisawa scene honestly, that stuff is all over Z

Personally I think they look fine, with exception of maybe one or two

I think in isolation it's fine, your general viewer probably hasn't watched every single one of the aforementioned shows, so any formulaic tendencies would go in most cases go unnoticed. For me personally though, if work can deliver impact despite repetitive traits, I'm fine. But then again you seemed to have studied his work far more than I have so forgive me if I'm downplaying any major problems haha.

@@forgottenrelics1197 Personally I never was particular intrigued by his work despite in my childhood, his work was all over animes I consumed namely DBZ and Saint Seiya. It’s only as an adult I inadvertently started to spot the traits of his work that were very easy to pin-point. And sometimes it really works well, sometimes it’s just feels uninspired. I tried to watch Casshern Sins which was the last major work of his to date but I honestly couldn’t get into it - the dank expressions of the characters, 90% of the time the characters are just talking with each other from a distance of 10m with no work on the atmosphere or lighting (it’s supposed to be a desolate world, but still build the scene!) even the fight scenes though good are damped with YamauchiTM with no ‘new’ stuff - characters flying from a distance to deliver kicks, punches that have no weight, quick unnecessary cuts on the torso, arms,thighs (places that are not even targeted by the kicks/punches), characters with the ever so ‘what is my life’ expression on the face… Though it seems his work on the street fighter movie is really good! It seems that when Yamauchi is given restrictions like in the 90s, he does good stuff but when he is given full liberty (Digimon & Saint Seiya 2000 movies/CS), it’s either a hit or miss or worse complete boredom. Personally as much as I’m thankful for his work on DBZ, I honestly don’t want him on the franchise again since we’ll probably have a movie with always hearing the characters getting beaten but never see the actual scene but only it’s aftermath…