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Answering the Calvinist's most Popular Argument 

Soteriology 101 w/ Dr. Leighton Flowers
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“WHY DID YOU BELIEVE THE GOSPEL, BUT YOUR FRIEND DID NOT? ARE YOU WISER OR SMARTER OR MORE SPIRITUAL OR BETTER TRAINED OR MORE HUMBLE?”
This is typically one of the first questions a Calvinist will ask a non-Calvinist when attempting to convince them of their doctrine.[1] In fact, when I was a Calvinist, I used this argument more often than any other, and it was quite effective. However, I have come to believe there are at least five significant problems with this line of argumentation:
1) CALVINISM IS ACTUALLY THE ONLY SYSTEM THAT TEACHES THE BELIEVER IS “BETTER” OR “MORE CAPABLE” THAN THE ONE WHO REFUSED TO BELIEVE:
On Calvinism God makes some people (the elect) “smarter” (or insightful, or able to understand truth), more humble and privileged by a work of irresistible regenerative grace. So, on Calvinism those who believe really are “better” or “more capable,” which is why they can believe the gospel and the rest cannot believe it (for reasons beyond their control). Granted, on Calvinism, this regenerative grace is given unconditionally and it is not in anyway merited by the elect, but that does not change the fact that upon being regenerated the elect are made “better” (more capable, with a new and better nature/heart) than their unbelieving counterpart.
On Provisionism (Traditionalism), all people have the necessary insight and moral capacity to respond willingly to God’s appeal. Thus, all are truly “without excuse” because everyone has everything they need to believe in God. This is due to the fact that everyone is created as His image bearers in a world where His truth is made abundantly clear and believable (Rom 1). On Provisionism, no one can fall back on the excuse that God did not make them morally capable to respond positively to His own appeals or insightful enough to understand and accept plainly spoken truth, like they can on Calvinism. On Provisionism, the Fall doesn’t cause humanity to become morally incapable of accepting God’s appeals to be reconciled from that Fall. We do not believe that has ever been established biblically.
This Calvinistic argument may sound pious because it’s attempting to give all credit to God for all the good things, but in so doing it also inadvertently gives God all the blame for the bad and removes any real semblance of human responsibility for unbelief.
Unbelievers cannot rightly say, “I could not believe because God withheld His provision, love and grace from me. It was beyond my control because I was born rejected by my maker and in a condition whereby I could only hate and reject God’s own appeals.” No! Unbelievers stand without excuse as blameworthy sinners because they are freely rejecting the loving and gracious appeal of God for reconciliation. They perish because they refused to love the truth so as to be saved (2 Thess. 2:10) and they could have done otherwise.
Provisionism gives God all the credit for His provision while maintaining the human responsibility to accept or reject that provision. After all, since when must a gift be effectually given for the giver to get full credit for giving it?
To read more go here: soteriology101...
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9 сен 2024

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Комментарии : 484   
@jerrodlopes186
@jerrodlopes186 Год назад
I was raised Catholic, became a Buddhist and stayed that way for about 10 years. I left Buddhism and searched through Taoism and even witchcraft. One day I heard the Lord say "Jerrod, come back to me". I was seeking truth. He gave me an opportunity to CHOOSE Him. I did. He offered and I accepted. Choice.
@bengagliardo
@bengagliardo Год назад
it dont work that way its not up to you if God forgives you . its up to him. when you go to God and pray for forgivness have forgiveness in your hart if you dont forgive just one person one sin agenst you God wont forgive all of yours its a gift you cant take it he as in God must give it to you and if God sais no then its no one hell will be full... beleve in/on jesus with all of your heart and you will be saved its called saving faith and you get it from God if he saves you . not when you deside because the God said no one seeks after God no not one then that means no one including you and me i wassaved by grace not becouse of sompthing i did ..
@jerrodlopes186
@jerrodlopes186 Год назад
@@bengagliardo and have you read and understood all that in the Bible for yourself or are you parroting back things you've heard in church, online or on TV? Remember, lying is a sin. Do you read the Bible every day? Every week? Where do you get your understanding from?
@jerrodlopes186
@jerrodlopes186 Год назад
@@bengagliardo so you're calling me a liar then.
@bengagliardo
@bengagliardo Год назад
he dident offer it to me he gave it to me he dident offer it becouse he knew we will reject it .. the bible said no one seeks after God no one . your calling God a liar? becouse you sought him ? shure sounds like your calling a liar to me
@jerrodlopes186
@jerrodlopes186 Год назад
@@bengagliardo where in the Bible does it say that? You never answered a single question and you haven't apologized for calling me a liar. Seems to me you don't know much about being a Christian. You just know how to go around telling people they're wrong with nothing to back it up with.
@johnjames3908
@johnjames3908 5 лет назад
Many years ago, I knew a lady who was convinced that she was not one of the elect. At the time I was backslidden yet felt that she had chosen to be so. In the period I was going through I still believed and deep down hoped for a way of escape from the trap I had woven for myself. God in His mercy led me out into fully trusting in the finished redemptive work of Christ. In the end, I realized that it is a matter of believing the gospel or not, which leaves us without excuse. These shorter messages are a true blessing, so thanks again, Leighton. God bless.
@buzzbbird
@buzzbbird 5 лет назад
When he says, " I am LITERALLY in the grave, next to Lazarus" Um, no, you are LITERALLY sitting in a church pew talking to someone.
@PracticalFaith
@PracticalFaith 4 года назад
😆
@Jakhaleesis
@Jakhaleesis 4 года назад
😂 I’m dead literally
@alfredjohnson2647
@alfredjohnson2647 3 года назад
He said he's 'waiting to hear his name'. Dead people don't wait.
@tracypaterson1633
@tracypaterson1633 3 года назад
Spiritually dead
@wynandl.oberholzer1702
@wynandl.oberholzer1702 3 года назад
He watches too much zombie movies....
@oldchinyman859
@oldchinyman859 4 года назад
Calvinist says, "Go forth atheist, preach the Bad News to every creature." What a travesty
@jasona4944
@jasona4944 5 лет назад
Scripture does not use the story of Lazarus as an example of how people accept Christ. People shouldn’t add/invent more than scripture reveals.
@peterfox7663
@peterfox7663 3 года назад
Correct. Calvinists use it as an analogy. It's a good one. Just illustrates a faulty idea.
@wynandl.oberholzer1702
@wynandl.oberholzer1702 3 года назад
Yes they wrest the Scriptures to their own destruction.
@judylloyd7901
@judylloyd7901 Год назад
Yes. The story of Lazarus is not analogy, it's not a parable, it's historical narrative. Jesus never told it at all, and the gospel writers don't tell it as an example of how we choose to follow Jesus. Jesus called numbers of people to follow Him. That's the call He issued, that's the term He used. He still does. 😁
@marialamb6781
@marialamb6781 Год назад
Exactly……. using Lazarus who died physically is a extremely poor and misapplied parable. For one thing, once you have died physically, that’s it! I fell for all this for a year after having been a Christian from almost 60 years. And then I realized “dead in your sin” does not mean dead incapable brainless etc. Dead in your sins simply means being separated from God because of sin. The instant you reach through those bars of sin enslaving you and say help me Jesus the bars disappear and God does do the work in your heart yes absolutely. But first you have to reach out and say help. I believe the Holy Spirit works in the heart of every person calling them to God in various ways, methods, people who speak to them etc. etc. and every night the heavens declare the glory of God. 💁🏻‍♀️
@finnthewise
@finnthewise Год назад
Yes, the point of the death of Lazarus is clearly spelled out by Christ Jesus, "Then Jesus told them plainly, “Lazarus has died, and for your sake I am glad that I was not there, so that you may believe. But let us go to him.” John 11:14-15 ESV. It is parallel to why John said He wrote the book, so that you may believe
@user-rc9il4en8w
@user-rc9il4en8w Год назад
This shows the IMPORTANCE of this ministry and of defending God's offer to all
@dawnboudmer1956
@dawnboudmer1956 2 года назад
To take the picture of a *corpse* in the grave ,to illustrate what it means to be *dead in your sins and trespasses* is a GRAVE ERROR, leading to erroneous doctrines. So sad that so many are falling for it.
@carmy_v
@carmy_v 4 года назад
The discussion between the two gentlemen sitting in the church pew was frightening and so disturbing. There's no certainty of salvation in that discussion. They share thoughts with Islam's Mohammad who was also uncertain if his god would save him or send him to hell. God tells us plainly and clearly to come and receive salvation through Jesus Christ. If we didn't know enough about Jesus, the gospel tells it all and there is over enough information in the Bible itself to challenge every world view we ever had and change our mind toward Jesus Christ, but it will come down to a choice of whether we want to receive the truth with gladness, or deny Him and go our own way. God will either count our belief as righteousness, or we will have to give an account on Judgment day for rejecting every bit of the gospel. It seems a bit too convenient to want God to perform a miracle to make one believe the Gospel unto salvation because it would also mean that God is accountable for the ones who are unable to believe in Him. Atheists put it neatly in saying they "lack a belief in god". Jesus performed sufficient miracles, signs and wonders to prove Himself to be the Messiah when He had to and all He needs today is simple faith in Him to be saved. "Blessed are those who have not seen yet have believe". He didn't say "Blessed are those who are unable to see and need a miracle from me to make them see Me and believe". There has always been something about Calvinism that makes me feel sick to my core and this exchange between these two guys just scares me even more.
@dawnboudmer1956
@dawnboudmer1956 2 года назад
Yes scary and sad in the same time.
@johnq4061
@johnq4061 Год назад
Of course they have salvation doubt because calvinism (sadism) completley removes the condition for faith that gives assurance (heartfelt acceptance and belief in the gospel). So if you believe there is literally NOTHING you can do to receive salvation, and then also believe you can be deceived into thinking you were saved on top of that, it makes sense they have no assurance of salvation and probably never will as long as they hold on firmly to calvinism (sadism).
@marce.goodnews
@marce.goodnews Год назад
So sad to see the consequences of wrong understandings in Derek. 😢
@srv1704
@srv1704 4 года назад
I was' dead in my sins' until I heard the Words of Life,Jesus, and I believed.....
@CaptainPantys
@CaptainPantys Год назад
Exactly you believed. Jesus didn't belive for you. He didn't mind control you to believe.... YOU DID!!!
@tacticalfilmfightingacadem9200
@tacticalfilmfightingacadem9200 4 года назад
My answer is "I don't Know, ask my friend.
@bidhan0001
@bidhan0001 3 года назад
😁
@glacierfranztabat8170
@glacierfranztabat8170 3 года назад
😉
@capalottyslimalini2878
@capalottyslimalini2878 4 года назад
I’m still confused to why Calvinist believe that FAITH is a WORK.
@bigdogboos1
@bigdogboos1 4 года назад
false humility
@HerveyShmervy
@HerveyShmervy 3 года назад
Because calvinism is often accompanied by lordship salvation
@bigdogboos1
@bigdogboos1 3 года назад
@@HerveyShmervy how exactly to you turn to the LORD Jesus without it being "Lordship"? They go hand in hand. It's like you're saying you can be saved without the LORD Jesus
@HerveyShmervy
@HerveyShmervy 3 года назад
@@bigdogboos1 you're playing a game of semantics, I suggest you tell me what you think lordship salvation is so I can see if you actually are educated on this topic
@capalottyslimalini2878
@capalottyslimalini2878 3 года назад
@@HerveyShmervy I've heard that term before.."Lordship salvation" but never really understood it. Can you explain what it means?
@jasonbrooks4221
@jasonbrooks4221 5 лет назад
If Calvinism is right/if calvinism is the way,, then what would be the point of the gospel. There would be know need for it because your saved no matter what. How can you even preach calvinism? How would you know the people your preaching to are saved, how would you really know if your saved while preaching the gospel? I put all my faith & trust in God not human understanding & thank God for his so Jesus!! My Lord & savior, Amen!! I will walk by faith even when I cannot see, 2 Corinthians 5:7
@raymatthews4319
@raymatthews4319 5 лет назад
I asked the same thing on another RU-vid post and have yet for a Calvinist to answer me.
@ConciseCabbage
@ConciseCabbage 5 лет назад
What is the point of something rather than nothing? That is the real question you should be pondering.
@jasonbrooks4221
@jasonbrooks4221 5 лет назад
God bless you all!!
@johnq4061
@johnq4061 Год назад
There is no point if calvinism (sadism) is true.
@inTruthbyGrace
@inTruthbyGrace 5 лет назад
a REAL HONEST Calvinist right there! but inconsistent bc he recognizes he CHOSE that view "I go directly into that _reformed_ view only because its the one that made the most sense to me.. *it's the one that seemed to make the most sense of the whole thing to me"*
@branch9422
@branch9422 5 лет назад
@@dylanwagoner9768 I've actually heard prominent Calvinists use this argument. I don't think Leighton pulled it out of hat. He is interested in pop culture just like Calvinists are. I have the concern that if someone's Calvinist experience doesn't line up with what some Calvinists believe, then these people must be doing something wrong or dishonoring. People experience what they experience. I critique my own beliefs all the time. It's a healthy sign to laugh at ourselves. When I don't agree with someone's position, i desire to practice returning evil with good....only not like "what's good for them, good," but like what's actually good and loving and wholesome. Its not easy to do because we want to strike in the face of injustice. I have been severely guilty of the above. I am just saying maybe saying something like this: "I don't think Leighton is representing Calvinism properly. To that I would add...who besides this video is saying that about Calvinism? I understand there are differing opinions and differing levels of low to high Calvinism (Macarthur, White) but what Leighton appears to do here is make it seem like all Calvinists are like this. Maybe some are, but I don't know anyone who believes like this. Why are you comfortable Leighton with what appears to be broad brushing?"
@branch9422
@branch9422 5 лет назад
@@dylanwagoner9768 I know some that if I don't respond according to a certain high level of intuitive spiritual maturity, then maybe Branch doesn't deserve an answer from us....and we will just answer a fool according to his folly. This sort of thing does go on...to a rubber room extent. In light of that (something I don't think Leighton has seen--but has done some videos on Piper coming to theological patterns that can be dangerous for people to think like....even as Christians). I do agree with you Dylan that Calvinists don't think like Derek. I believe the focus of use of that video is to show how the evangelical effects may impact people/others.
@PETERJOHN101
@PETERJOHN101 2 года назад
If the exchange between the two fellows on the pew isn't an example of "strong delusion," I don't know what is.
@chriscasillas
@chriscasillas 5 лет назад
Excellent video! Succinct and well put. Derek's conversation at the end was so telling and sad.
@amadeusasimov1364
@amadeusasimov1364 2 года назад
Thanks for the video! Full Calvinism seems to ultimately conclude in fatalism. Calvinism, holds God's sovereignty as utmost importance, and yet the fatalistic nature of it demands God to be in control of everything or else He can not be sovereign. - This ultimately is a diminishing reverence of God's sovereignty.
@BibleLovingLutheran
@BibleLovingLutheran 5 лет назад
Amen Leighton! This is why atheists love Calvinism. It’s in agreement with their unbelief. An excuse.
@justchilling704
@justchilling704 3 года назад
I’ve observed the same thing, there is this odd compatibility between the Calvinist and Atheist.
@jeffreyandrewwinters3719
@jeffreyandrewwinters3719 3 года назад
@@justchilling704 How does Calvinism help Atheists ?
@leo_bernal2018
@leo_bernal2018 2 года назад
@@jeffreyandrewwinters3719 Idk exactly what he's implying, but it's probably because both Calvinists and Atheists reject free will and believe everything is predetermined
@jeffreyandrewwinters3719
@jeffreyandrewwinters3719 2 года назад
@@leo_bernal2018 I think Some Calvinists believe humans have Free Will to a certain extent, but do you think Calvinism is much more complicated than Arminianism or that Calvinism invents or uses Non-Biblical terms, is the Calvinist Interpretation of the Bible incorrect and why ?
@leo_bernal2018
@leo_bernal2018 2 года назад
@@jeffreyandrewwinters3719 In some circumstances, yes. Calvinists take the term "sovereign" to a completely different level, sovereignty is literally just possessing ultimate and supreme authority, which God does have. Quite frankly, I believe Calvinism isn't "more complicated", in fact, I believe it to be too simple. Calvinists think sovereignty is being controlling in a compulsive sense, so they think, "Oh, God is sovereign, therefore, God is compulsive", when that's not how it works.
@craigjoyner9857
@craigjoyner9857 5 лет назад
Loving these short, specific videos Leighton!!! Keep doing the work!!!!
@SaneNoMore
@SaneNoMore Год назад
Thank you for calling it a worldview. Many people think it is just soteriology, but the Calvinist philosophy goes farther than that and is in fact a worldview.
@Luvurenemy
@Luvurenemy Год назад
How sad. That young man and so many more trapped by Calvinism. As InspiringPhilosophy lays out beautifully from the most recent science…our space-time experience emerges from our conscious choice. Similarly, our conscious choice of believing in the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ saves us for eternity. Thank you for your work, Dr. Flowers. You are saving souls.
@blessedbeyondmeasure8754
@blessedbeyondmeasure8754 2 года назад
I recently started to do an in-depth study of Calvinism after watching John MacArthur, John Piper, and Voddie Baucham three teachers I have learned a lot from. Then after a few weeks realized they were all calvinist. The conversation at the end of this video is disturbing enough to cause me to want to turn away from Calvinism. But after years of study I have come to the conclusion that Calvinism is a horrible belief system of a cruel God. I have read so many accounts of people grew up fearing God so much that they thought every day he was going to throw them in Hell. God is love is obviously not shown in the churches that push the calvinistic view. I just think how will Calvinists handle if they are wrong and realize at the end of their lives they steered so many people away from Christ. Whoever that guy was that was laughing when his friend said that there's nothing he can do about it he'll just make the best of it if he's hellbound how disturbing that his friend actually laughs. That's the kind of attitude in calvinism I see repeatedly - an almost oh well sucks to be you attitude to the unsaved. They find humor in it. I want nothing to do with a system that teaches God hates people and it's funny that those people are going to hell.The more I see in people that believe in calvinism the more disturbing I understsnd it is. Its basically the same as Jehovah witnesses. They teach that only 144,000 are going to make it to heaven and when somebody claims they're one of those 144,000 everybody acts like they're amazing and pretty much that person becomes edified and idolized. The same I see the calvinists do to their calvinist preachers and teachers. Jehovah Witness religion is so oppressive and so is calvinism. Jehovah Witness to tend to walk around like they're better than others because they believe they are part of this select few.
@mylifeintheusa4720
@mylifeintheusa4720 2 года назад
You probably heard the saying "Christians give other Christians a bad name". Well, the same is true about calvinism. Some Calvinists give other Calvinists a bad name. Now personally I don't like the term Calvinism. I prefer the term reformed theology. I think, that we should all be biblical. The bible supports both views. Both are true, but Arminians emphasize one side and Calvinists emphasize the other side. We need to believe both sides not just one. God is love but God is also angry with the wicked everyday. God is a God who ought to be loved and feared at the same time. God loves what is right and holy and hates what is evil. Both sides are true. We have to do our best to harmonize them.
@chrisking6874
@chrisking6874 Год назад
I suppose they didn't read the part where it lists the 144,000 as being male virgins, 12000 from each tribe of Israel. That ought to narrow it down to probably one or two JWs getting to heaven.
@blessedbeyondmeasure8754
@blessedbeyondmeasure8754 Год назад
@@mylifeintheusa4720 very interesting perspective on these two different belief systems. Thanks for sharing
@ryangalligan1040
@ryangalligan1040 Год назад
Exactly!
@johnq4061
@johnq4061 Год назад
more i think about it more i realize calvinism is the roman catholicism of the 21st century.
@suzanneyorkville
@suzanneyorkville 5 лет назад
wow...that was heartbreaking. I would be trembling in my boots if I believed I must not have been chosen and am destined to eternal damnation. I wonder if he has nightmares. I pray people stop and think of how horrible Calvinism really is.
@branch9422
@branch9422 5 лет назад
@@michaeljmccurdy9449 Why is that worrisome though? If elect, just ride it out? If elect, our mind will change at that appointed time. Perhaps we get more rewards for believing earlier? But its providential...so there really would be no loss then, yeah? Yet loss of reward is in scripture. How does that relate to ordainment?
@briward1654
@briward1654 5 лет назад
Calvinism's logical outflow is what these guys are doing. If a person thinks they are elect there is a sense of pride that comes with that... that is what is often seen. If you think you are not elect then as Branch said... eat drink and be merry for tomorrow you die... this is the logical outworking of a system that at it's base is deterministic and a system that proudly proclaims that God does not love most people and does only love a few and there is absolutely no changing what was decreed, ordained, rendered certain, designed by God... so eat drink and be merry... and wait to see if you were the elect. If a person really believes Calvinism there has to be a sense of fatalism that seeps in just as with these two guys they are living logically within the Calvinist Worldview.
@jaygee2187
@jaygee2187 5 лет назад
Michael J McCurdy what any calvinist theologian claims on the matter is irrelevant; people make self-contradictory claims all the time, so what? There is only one non-contradictory result of the ‘divine decree’, and that is fatalism...,we are doomed or blessed to each run according to our programming. If the decree is eternal then it encompasses the entire duration of time, beginning to end. If the decree is universal then it encompasses everything, thought, word, deed object without exception. If the decree is immutable then it will run according to plan exactly as planned with no changes. If the decree is unconditional then no outside influences were employed in its consideration; it was all only of God. Knowledge by decree, not decree according to knowledge. If the decree is efficacious then the decree was not simply set in motion and left to run its course, but is intimately and actively caused to occur in everything at every time by God.
@jaygee2187
@jaygee2187 5 лет назад
Michael J McCurdy it is contradictory to scripture and it is fatalism. You don’t get to chalk it up to mystery because it is not a mystery. It appears contradictory because it is. If you want to eliminate the contradiction then eliminate Calvinism, don’t brush it aside by claiming mystery. God is sovereign....no one argues against the sovereignty of God, but Calvinists redefine sovereignty to mean ‘meticulous control’, which it doesn’t. The bible explains our responsibility to believe clearly; the only reason it becomes unclear is because men add vain philosophies to the nature of belief which are not biblical. Do a word study on the bride of Christ....you’ll be surprised by who or what it actually is.
@briward1654
@briward1654 5 лет назад
@@jaygee2187 Well said Jay... Calvinism claims "meticulous divine determinism" is essential for God to be glorified but then when they see that is a problem they smuggle in some sort of Free will that is 100% determined by God but please remember it is freely of the man who is choosing -- wink wink. As Piper and J White even point out every rape, all of Hitler's deeds were the hand of God otherwise God would not be sovereign and instead of God being Sovereign man would be sovereign. But of course God is not the author of evil...wink. Enter (Compatibilism) simply another lawyer trick to pull the wool over the eyes of the unsuspecting. On the one hand Calvinism fights fiercely for "Meticulous divine determinism" But then that presupposition runs into many problems hence the back peddling. Then the punt to "mystery" to cover up all the loose ends that are left hanging out with this system.
@Dr.CorneliaKratzer
@Dr.CorneliaKratzer Год назад
A very famous Hollywood director friend of mine (he's now passed away) often told me how he turned from being an Atheist to a deep abiding faith in God: he was in a desperate state in his life and a friend of his told him he had to pray. Since he was an Atheist the friend told him to pray anyway one prayer first thing in the morning and again at night. So he rolled out of bed the next morning went on his knees and said" I don't believe in A God but if You/God are out there, show me" That was all. Same thing at night. He did that for 7 days. At the end of the seven days he knew beyond the shadow of a doubt that God existed and has never wavered in his faith. No lightening bolt, just God convinced him in his heart. BUT it took for him FIRST to be WILLING to pray and ASK God. Seek after HIM even when he did not believe at all. IF he had never been willing to pray but waited for that lightening Bolt or SIGN (aka Pharisees) or a Lazarus-Riase-Me-From-The-Dead moment then the would have never come to faith.
@branch9422
@branch9422 5 лет назад
It is a testimony of God's character (that you share Leighton) how you have long and detailed discussions as well as bite-sized moments. This strategy is like God offering all angles...because He is interested in doing so (to help anyone where they may be at with things/theology....and their level of readiness to hear). Your video with Chris Date shows a heart of Christ demonstrated by Provisionism. You spent an hour to air out a confession of faith only to applaud Chris for more likely being correct about what was meant--while holding onto your convictions and loving on the brother. This is the majesty of God. I think we are entering an age of great apostasy. But whether true or not, what is true is God has so provided His love toward us in this age (at leat in one way--beyond that of His Spirit and Word) through biblically laying our lives down as Christ did. Not win a theological argument. Thank you from the bottom of my heart Leighton for being this representative of His true Character...in such an age as this. Blessings.
@huskerguy5715
@huskerguy5715 5 лет назад
What a tragic conversation between those two. It starts with a misunderstanding of Eph. 2:1. "Dead" does not reference inability. It is clear from verse 4 that Paul was taught the same gospel as John by Jesus. John's message? You need life (John 20:30-31; also 3:14-16, 18; 6:28-40, 47; 10:10; Rev. 20:15). What do we lack? The life of God. So, in Eph. 2:4-7, Paul explains that God gave us the life of Christ. How? By faith (2:8-9). The gift of God was the salvation from the deadness sin brought in our lives. But notice Paul says they(we) lived in their death (2:2-3)! Unbelievers are like spiritual zombies living in their death. So, dead does not mean "unable", but one who needs the life of God. If 2:1 collapses, and it does, so does Calvinism. The greatest strength of Calvinism is theology; the "tightness" of their system. Their greatest weakness? The Bible and proper exegesis.
@apilkey
@apilkey 5 лет назад
timffoster Even a slave has the moral ability to cry out for mercy and help to a saviour. Not being able to submit to God’s law has nothing to do with being able to believe in faith. Believing in faith does not mean submitting to God’s laws it means giving up and declaring that you CAN’T and it means surrendering to Christ. You’re conflating submitting to God’s laws as a requirement to be saved. Pretty sure that’s a works salvation. We’re saved by grace through FAITH and not through submission to His laws. AFTER we’re saved by freely believing in faith THEN we can submit to God’s laws because the Holy Spirit lives inside of us. Can you please show me where in the bible submitting to God’s laws FIRST is a requirement for salvation? FAITH is the only requirement to be saved. Submission to God’s laws is after we believe and it’s through the help of the Holy Spirit and not of our own strength. No need to conflate the two.
@apilkey
@apilkey 5 лет назад
timffoster let’s test your theory against the Word of God and see if a totally wicked person is unable to come to God in faith. Let’s look at the story of perhaps the evilest king of Judah. MANASSEH. Manasseh led Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem astray, to do more evil than the nations whom the LORD destroyed before the people of Israel. 2 CHRONICLES 33:9 9 So Manasseh made Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem to err, and to do worse than the heathen, whom the LORD had destroyed before the children of Israel. As a RESULT of his sins God allowed the Assyrians to capture him and take him to Babylon. While he was imprisoned there HE REPENTED and was restored to his kingdom. When he was in distress, HE ENTREATED the favor of the LORD his God and HUMBLED HIMSELF greatly before the God of his fathers. He prayed to him, and God was moved BY HIS ENTREATY and heard his plea and brought him again to Jerusalem into his kingdom. THEN Manasseh knew that the LORD was God. 2 CHRONICLES 33:12,13 12 And when he was in affliction, HE BESOUGHT THE LORD HIS GOD, AND HUMBLED HIMSELF GREATLY BEFORE THE GOD OF HIS FATHERS, 13 AND PRAYED UNTO HIM: AND HE WAS INTREATED OF HIM, AND HEARD HIS SUPPLICATION, and brought him again to Jerusalem into his kingdom. THEN MANASSEH KNEW THAT THE LORD HE WAS GOD. **He was the worst king of Judah and he was also the only one who repented of his sins. This passage is clear that even the most heinous of people still have the ability to humble themselves and repent. It’s also abundantly clear that Manasseh humbled himself FIRST before God acted and it wasn’t until AFTER that Manasseh knew that the Lord He was God. Q: Can wicked and evil men humble themselves and entreat the Lord and repent? A: According to the scriptures he can.
@apilkey
@apilkey 5 лет назад
timffoster Scripture clearly shows us Manasseh didn’t have a new heart first before he cried out to the Lord. Read verse 13 which says, “THEN Manasseh knew that the Lord He was God.” Q: WHEN did Manasseh know that the Lord He was God? Was it before or was it AFTER He cried out to the Lord? Scripture tells us clearly in verse 13 that answer which is “THEN” or “AFTER” he cried out to God. Do you not believe this? That’s a false assumption that you have to know God to cry out to Him. It’s called FAITH. You don’t know but you’re trusting and believing. Are you assuming we all fully know God 100% everything about Him before we cry out to Him? Where is that found in scripture?
@jaygee2187
@jaygee2187 5 лет назад
timffoster what do you do with this passage? Luke 7 37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. 38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. 39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
@branch9422
@branch9422 5 лет назад
​@@timffoster What I did as a Calvinist is I wanted to honestly know why I would find statements like "Calvinism is of the devil." And such statements like that. I understood TULIP and could not imagine that anyone would think there was anything wrong with such holy concepts. How could TULIP be from hell? It was that question that put me on a quest. What I thought I might find is just some lame answers of overzealous punks for Christ. But Tim, it took me several months to even find coherent articles that made any sense at all as to what EVEN the basic differences and problems were outside of Calvinism. Literally, it took months before I started to find reasonable material and then consider the opposing argument like a true scholar would....consider the evidence as if potentially real...from there test it...and see if it bears out. But that HAS to be done with a humble heart in case "I was wrong," I wanted to know it honestly. I had to give it time but not time asking for others to show me this verse or that verse then I'll believe it. That is not the heart of Berean. A Berean heart earnestly wants to know truth even if its wrong and has to eat crow. I researched for several months until i came across Leighton. It took many months to even get reasonable answers to my questions. But once I found Leighton, there were many more directions and many more scriptures I could test and prove out. To be honest with you, every now and then I go to a passage and i am fully back in Calvinism mode again. And my heart still has an affection for it. But every time that happens, God uses it to expand and stretch me. I look at the Parable of the Kings Wedding Invitation and I do not see what Leighton sees. I don't just settle for all things Leighton. He has some awesome points and also some rough around the edges ones. I think that parable is one of his rough spots. But God used it to dive deep and discover things about it that go beyond how Leighton looks at it exegetically. But in the same direction away from Calvinism. I would pray for a willing heart to know if there is something deeper than Calvinism that God is wanting to show us in His word. Maybe you are here to argue? I am not sure. It seems like you are here out of interest. I am just saying...having much research and being open to in-depth conversations with non-Calvinists that might know the word pretty well....well that is a great place to learn. It is hard to learn and soak things in while we are being defensive about it. I was totally open to whatever God would show. "God if Calvinism is true...I am already there and used to it and you showed me how i can be submissive to that if that is what is real...but if not....please show me what is truer about your precious word." And the pandora's box that opened was something like Nickelson coming into my bedroom telling me: "You can't handle the truth." Because it feels like that much of the time...while deepening SLOWLY in understanding. Its kind of a crazy mix...but beautiful rivers of passionate emerald truth seem to far surpass anything Calvin could have dreamed. Lions, and Tigers, and Bears...oh my.
@davemitchell116
@davemitchell116 5 лет назад
To state that "God would have to give you faith" is not Biblically correct. Calvinists improperly exegete Ephesians 2:9 to arrive at this false assumption. The Scripture is clear: Faith comes through hearing the word God.(Rom. 10:17). And they cannot hear unless we exercise our responsibility to evangelize them (vv. 14, 15). In Calvinism there is no purpose in evangelism, which negates Christ's words in Mt. 18:19; Mark 16:15 and Acts 1:8. They have made the word of God of none effect by their tradition (Mt. 15:6; Mk. 7:13a).
@davemitchell116
@davemitchell116 5 лет назад
@@timffoster I was a Calvinist for almost 24 years and came to understand there is no "hyper" Calvinism. It's a term Calvinists use in an attempt to soften their heresy. Heresy is heresy whether you call it "hyper" or not. Either you believe God pre-decided everyone's fate or you don't. If you believe that, you are a Calvinist. If you don't you're something else, but you're not a Calvinist. Same for believing whether faith comes by hearing the word or God or is given. It's a black and white issue.
@davemitchell116
@davemitchell116 5 лет назад
​@@matt_h_27 Gee whiz, you nailed me. Now would you explain what I was all those years you knew me. Evidently you knew me intimately, everything I did, everything I knew and and especially everything I was. Man, I didn't know we were so close. (And maybe I didn't see the difference after 24 years was because the only difference exists in your faulty theology).
@theashianz3562
@theashianz3562 4 года назад
Amen
@dreamlabmc
@dreamlabmc 4 года назад
By faith, the harlot Rahab perished not with those them that believe not... Faith makes all the difference!
@evanu6579
@evanu6579 4 года назад
Dreamlab Studios Everyone has faith.
@richb.48
@richb.48 5 лет назад
I can never understand the correlation of Jesus raising Lazarus from the dead(physically), and becoming a New Creation in Christ(Spiritually) thru our faith in Him. Lazarus being raised from the dead was in no means to be an analogy of how a person becomes saved for eternity. Why do i say this? Because Lazarus died AGAIN. He was raised in the flesh, not the spirit. So sad for this group of people who put their trust in a systematic of men.
@oracleoftroy
@oracleoftroy 5 лет назад
I think it is merely used as an illustration. Biblically, we are spiritually dead in sin and raised in Christ. Lazarus is a person in the Bible who was physically dead and raised by Christ, so the situation is parallel, one being spiritual and one being physical. Any dead person would do, but Lazarus also being raised helps close the circle. I haven't seen someone try to press the parallel beyond that.
@a.k.7840
@a.k.7840 4 года назад
I pray that Derek comes back around to his faith before it's too late. I dread for him the notion that on judgement day God will tell him that he threw away the free gift of grace.
@GodsTruthMinistries
@GodsTruthMinistries 3 года назад
If he was saved, he's still saved. But this is a very sad example of what the cult of Calvinism does to people.
@yknot1685
@yknot1685 5 лет назад
Thanks for showing us the ugly pride of Calvinism at the end. I really feel sorry for those deceived into it. It really is an ugly place to be.
@Emper0rH0rde
@Emper0rH0rde 5 лет назад
I was raised Calvinist. I grew up *terrified* of God, and *scared to death* of hell.
@jaygee2187
@jaygee2187 5 лет назад
Ruben T me too!
@TheNewports
@TheNewports 5 лет назад
Y Knot, it you understood the Doctrines of Grace (a more appropriate 'label'), you would know that the core of these doctrines is the depravity of man. Those who believe in the Doctrines of Grace know that we are depraved sinners and we must be humbled. Not that we humble ourselves (humbling one's self is the pinnacle of pride). Blessed are the poor in spirit (Sermon on Mount) the first one I could think of and many more.
@jaygee2187
@jaygee2187 5 лет назад
Eric Newport humbling oneself is the pinnacle of pride? God commands people over and over again to humble themselves; He tells us that He will exalt those who humble themselves, that He gives grace to those who humble themselves. I think it is much more indicative of pride when a man insists on the veracity of the doctrines of man over and against the word of God.
@enonknives5449
@enonknives5449 5 лет назад
@@jessethomas3979 -- In Calvinism, salvation isn't a gift; it is a dictate for the so-called "elect." In actual Christianity, salvation is a gift because God graciously offers it and we gratefully accept it. That's how all gifts work. Where the pride comes into Calvinism is the exclusivity that they demand of God. They reject God's ability to make the offer open to any who will accept it. Calvinists don't want salvation to be open to all because they want most people to go to hell. If election is exclusive, it means that Calvinists are somehow special because God chose them for reasons known only to Him. Because Calvinists think they are special, they believe they can correct God's "mistakes" in Scripture. In reality, they are claiming to be smarter and more capable than God. For example, Calvinists believe that Jesus is telling the truth in John 6:44 when He said that no one could come to Him unless the Father drew him. But Calvinists believe that Jesus is lying in John 12:32 when He says that if he is lifted up (crucified), that Jesus would draw all men to Himself. Actual Christians know that Jesus was telling the truth both times, but was referring to different periods of time: before and after the crucifixion. Because Calvinists think they are smarter than God, they reject Jesus' explanation for the Father's drawing and insert a lie in its place. Jesus explained in John 5 that He wasn't relying only on His own testimony, but also the testimony of the Father. If they had believed the Father, it would have drawn them to Jesus because Scripture spoke about Jesus: He was fulfilling the prophecies that the Father had revealed. Calvinists redefine the word "draw" to mean "compel" rather than "attract" so that God operates by brute force.
@tess1544
@tess1544 5 лет назад
A soul that is lost because he doesn’t know that God loves him and Jesus died for him. He has been deceived. God does not desire anyone perish. It’s heartbreaking.
@branch9422
@branch9422 5 лет назад
Beautifully said.
@patrickchen4390
@patrickchen4390 5 лет назад
it is heart breaking...
@branch9422
@branch9422 5 лет назад
@@matt_h_27 Tjel you stated that well.I hear your heart and concur...well...i concur that man is very evil. But to me, what we are possibly looking at are "soils" like the parable. If the rocky soil or the stoney soil were to think it should be fruitful all over the place, then that person is having too high a view of themselves. But if the soil is good and produces fruit, it is sober-minded for man to see the soil made good. In this I would think that God helps condition that soil through life events, His spirit, and our level of cooperative willingness to want to understand Him. Galatians 6: 3 "For if anyone thinks he is something when he is nothing, he deceives himself. 4 But each one must examine his own work, and then he will have reason for boasting in regard to himself alone, and not in regard to another." I don't think Paul is saying, "Find a reason to boast." I think he is saying don't boast like Romans 5:25 but bear one another's burdens. And the way to do that is by, "if we must boast," boast from having helped others. I believe it is a tiny bit sarcastic there perhaps in how it is laid out. 1 Corinthians 11:31 "But if we judged ourselves rightly, we would not be judged." This is where, to me honestly, the position that considers that the problem with libertarians is they don't have a low enough view of man sounds postmodern. In social justice politics, the bent is to shame. Should America be ashamed of slavery and white privilege? Yes. Should America overly burden people who are white because of white privilege? No. That is kind of reverse racism. Just because someone is a race color does not make them guilty of white privilege. They did not decide to be born a color. So to say that libertarians have too low a view of man (although could be correct in cases) and that is the problem, well that is kind of like Galatians 6:3 & 5:25 in that it could be categorized as potentially condescending. "You think too highly of yourself," can really be used for anything. Accusations against Paul were as such. But when would it ever be true that any of us could ever say what Paul did? Should not Paul have said, "Even though I don't know anything against my self, I should....I am wrong to think there is anything not against myself." "Let a man regard us in this manner, as servants of Christ and stewards of the mysteries of God. In this case, moreover, it is required of stewards that one be found trustworthy. But to me it is a very small thing that I may be examined by you, or by any human court; in fact, I do not even examine myself For I am conscious of nothing against myself, yet I am not by this acquitted, but the one who examines me is the Lord." What I am saying is that shouldn't Paul here be examined by Calvin? Or Calvinism? Romans 12: 3 "For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the faith God has distributed to each of you." Is there an equilibrium in Calvinism where Romans 12:3 could be said of ourselves honestly and honorably? I am not advocating we think more highly of ourselves, but in Catholicism an over focus on the morbid led them to asceticism and they became monks. Romans 12:9 "Honor one another above yourselves." I would find it difficult to honor others if I always had an undercurrent in my eyes to see them as not thinking lowly enough of themselves. In just looking at that honestly, it would seem intellectually dishonest for me to approach others like that. Kind of like subtly demonizing them to dismiss their own personally considerable plea. To think that someone does not have a true understanding of God because they don't think lowly enough of themselves (because of our own theology) is a bias. It may be correct. I don't see that it is. But if we rob ourselves of it potentially being a bias, how would that equip us to truly honor another above ourselves when we must be more correct than they? It just seems very postmodern in construct. I believe man is desperately wicked. Why would not Calvinism coming from a desperately wicked man, received by desperately wicked men not also be subject to this suspicion? Why would the theological suppositions of Calvin be off the table? It still came through a desperately wicked heart. Calvin may be correct. But he also may be wrong. Libertarians may be wrong. But they also may be correct in a personal heart toward God. Another man's theology should not be that which provides us to interfere or look at others as though better informed and then view another's life in light of that. It runs the risk of being smug. But if we cannot see the potential bias that may occur in our own heart thinking that our theology is more correct than theirs (or at least in how another may understand to approach God), how is that demonstrating the higher more holy ground version is a greater principle of charity in practice (the doing of the word)? How is that the principle of charity at all? The potential of letting theological positions override genuine consideration of one who is created in God's image and for one for whom Christ died is something we afford ourselves and not the libertarian? That thinking process does not demonstrate "more consideration" but less from what i would understand. Not more charity, but less...yet...it is the proper one? I extend the charity that this is a theological position and not meant personally. But theological positions can tend to have consequences. Maybe even unintended.
@tess1544
@tess1544 5 лет назад
Tjel 81 Tjel 81, My friend, Yes, but I don’t hate you. It’s an impossible task to know the mind of God or even an inkling of His thoughts. But we are constantly trying to attain that knowledge. We’re still trying to eat of the tree of knowledge. We can not know these things. No more than an animal can know our mind. But He shows us His character in His word and deeds. God is love and loves His creation because He gave His only Son that whosoever believes shall not perish but live with the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit in heaven. I may love as His creation but God’s Love far outreaches and surpasses my ability to love. So, I say to myself, this doctrine would mean that my human love is more than God’s? I love my children more than God does? NO not possible. It is outside His character. He cannot be lesser than His creation. He loves all, He gave all, to all who believe, ours is the Kingdom In His pure love and sovereignty He gives His creation the ability to choose where we will spend eternity. Grace and mercy to you my friend
@tess1544
@tess1544 5 лет назад
Tjel 81 my friend, we have reached an impasse on what we believe is the character of God. I will continue to spread the gospel to all and tell people that God loves them and Jesus died for them and believe it in my very soul. But I would say to you is it possible that I love Derek more than God does? And this is were we part company so to speak.
@jaydubya7012
@jaydubya7012 2 года назад
That poor wretched man Derik that was sold a lie. Even by his own words is that he believes but doesn't know it. Bless him.
@toplobster1040
@toplobster1040 3 года назад
Wow. I can't believe that video clip you showed. It's so heartbreaking that that's why some people don't believe in God. This doctrine is straight from the pit of hell. We need to pray for Derek and his friend
@samuelrosenbalm
@samuelrosenbalm 2 года назад
Doctrines of grace are not from the pits of hell. Your ignorance is. The doctrines of grace rescued me - I was at the end of myself. I cannot trust myself to contribute anything. If God left my perseverence in faith truly up to me, being dependent upon myself, I would no doubt fall away, because absent the grace of God, I am truly a wicked, corupt, utterly helpless man.
@easybeliever7
@easybeliever7 2 года назад
@@samuelrosenbalm I can resonate with that my brother. The doctrines of grace are plainly taught throughout scripture. God bless.
@samuelrosenbalm
@samuelrosenbalm 2 года назад
@@easybeliever7 Amen. The fact that "Salvation is of the Lord" is the central theme of the Bible. What can I produce within myself, of myself, apart from a work of grace? Nothing conducive to salvation, otherwise grace is not grace, God bless you, brother.
@easybeliever7
@easybeliever7 2 года назад
@@samuelrosenbalm Amen to all of that man. May The Lord’s sovereign will be done.
@schoolprojects5399
@schoolprojects5399 5 лет назад
I’m a confessional 1689 guy and I just couldn’t last your long vids. They were very redundant but these vids are sweet! And really help me understand where you’re coming from! I appreciate your kindness Leighton!
@schoolprojects5399
@schoolprojects5399 5 лет назад
What’s up Tjel 81! Sweet because they’re short. Clearly I disagree with Leighton, nevertheless he does well to maintain a kind persona in his vids and I appreciate that.
@makedisciples8653
@makedisciples8653 Год назад
There are two tragic people in the end of this video. Certainly Derek Webb, but even more tragic is the gentleman on the left. He doesn’t know the message of the Gospel. He won’t tell Derek that God loves him. That he sent His Son to die for his sins John the Baptist said “Look the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world”. Derek could ask him “What must I do to be saved?“ Don’t both of them know that Lazarus was a believer and a friend of Jesus? What are they talking about? Why would anyone identify with Calvinism?
@kirin347
@kirin347 Год назад
Father, if it be Your will, we pray for You to shower these men with Your merciful light. Show them the truth of Your provision of grace so they may choose to turn to You and find the salvation You have prepared for them. In the Name of Jesus we pray this, Amen.
@hagenjunger2914
@hagenjunger2914 4 года назад
I read so many of these discussions and am appalled by how they degenerate into arguments that border on disdain for each other. From both sides. Such as calling the opposing idea from satan etc. Though I am busy working out my own soteriology, I am so far seeing that every "system of doctrine" has elements of mystery and flaws. I do think its important to work this out for yourself, as your understanding of thos helps in your own assurance of salvation. But, i think unbelievers would look at some of these discussions that take place, and the words of Jesus "by the love they have for each other will the world know you are my disciples " will ring very loud. But it is good to see some discussion where we resist the fleshly temptation to win the argument at all costs. Last point...I can guarantee you that Christians in persecuted countries have little interest in this debate, just grateful for the mercy of God and depndant on each other for all things. This will never happen in the western free world until persecution happens in it's real sense. Then and only then will the body of Christ be truly unified, where doctrines such as this will be set aside for the good of His church
@craigsherman4480
@craigsherman4480 4 года назад
I hope in your search for discovering your soteriology, you pick up a copy of Why We’re Catholic or The Case For Catholicism by Trent Horn both are good books which will give you a good understanding of Catholic beliefs. If you really want to see what the Church teaches, pick up the Catechism. God Bless you in your journey.
@JMRabil675
@JMRabil675 2 года назад
So youre a calvinist? why even watch this video then? just go away
@brianmatthews4323
@brianmatthews4323 Год назад
One of the best pieces of advice I ever got concerning Bible doctrine was to never settle on a position that's based on just a few scriptures. My rule is that whatever I think a passage is saying must harmonize with all the rest of scripture. If it doesn't, I'm misunderstanding it and must rethink my conclusion.
@lmorter7867
@lmorter7867 5 лет назад
I can't stand when they use the corpse analogy. They need to listen to Jesus rather than Augustine or Calvin. He explains what being dead means in the story of the prodigal son. The Lazarus miracle is about our resurrection not salvation. They seem to be as dead as a corpse when it comes to using common sense.
@lmorter7867
@lmorter7867 5 лет назад
@@timffoster Yes. Anyone can come to their senses. They just have to humble themselves. The prodigal son was "dead" and he came to his senses in spite of being dead. His Father didn't drag him back. He humbled himself and went to the Father.
@lmorter7867
@lmorter7867 5 лет назад
@@timffoster Humility is a condition of the heart. The prodigal son came to his senses, which requires free will, and humbled himself. We are not programmed robots or dead corpses. If that were the case we can't be held responsible for our actions. Scripture is vividly clear that we are free to make choices. We don't give ourselves an epiphany we have them. It requires having an open heart.
@maryphipps-seward5995
@maryphipps-seward5995 5 лет назад
@@timffoster Yes. You choose when you've become sickened by the life you've created and are living......there is no happiness in living against God. It's called "rock bottom" and you can't give it to someone, it's a decision to come to on one's own.
@lmorter7867
@lmorter7867 5 лет назад
@@michaeljmccurdy9449 You are incorrect. I agree that there is no life apart from Christ. You are conflating eternal life awith physical life. I believe scripture is very clear that every person breathing has has been given physical life by God which includes the ability to think, reason and make willful decisions. These decisions result in actions that each person is solely responsible for (not predetermined to do) and can therefore be justly held accountable for what they do and judged by God rightly for it. When a person sins they are separated from the only source of eternal life - Isa 59:2. God in his mercy offers us another chance to be connected and it's only by grace through faith. Faith, by the way is not a work. You said - "God ordains all things yet we are responsible for our own belief." That is not a mystery it's an illogical contradiction. God can't contradict himself because he himself is the source of all logic - 1 John 5:6. You can't dispute this fact because the Word says that Jesus himself is the Logos - John 1:1. Therefore you were taught incorrect theology. Please reconsider using the mind and reasoning that God gave you when studying His Word rather than relying on other men. God bless.
@heptadicaddict6631
@heptadicaddict6631 5 лет назад
What’s pathetic about Calvinist is they think they are thinking for themselves but they are continuing a man made tradition whether they believe they are or not. It’s why they call themselves Calvinist. Even though they say they just use the name to represent an interpretation of scripture, it should be obvious to those of the truth its more like idol worship.
@jaygee2187
@jaygee2187 5 лет назад
timffoster I don’t call myself overweight, but that doesn’t influence the scale at all.
@Mark-oo3om
@Mark-oo3om 5 лет назад
@@jaygee2187 perfect!
@tess1544
@tess1544 5 лет назад
Jay Gee love you brother
@ViolinistJeff
@ViolinistJeff 4 года назад
"Maybe God made me for destruction." What a horrible thing to believe.
@nb7524
@nb7524 4 года назад
I could not agree more with your comment. I reluctantly say, there is NOTHING about that belief that shows God as all loving, merciful and gracious. Unfortunately, it can give false credence to Richard Dawkins' wrong opinion that our amazing God is a monster. Based on believing in that type of determinism, it could be argued that God made Dawkins that hateful and sacrilegious.
@kennethrawlinson9398
@kennethrawlinson9398 2 года назад
Has Derek ever read his bible! Oh my! What a twisted, perverted view on God's word. It's heartbreaking to see satan blind men. A form of Godliness but denying His power.
@nikao7751
@nikao7751 5 лет назад
Those guys at the end were just leaning on their own understanding and God commands us not to do that and that is just another nail in the coffin of a wicked view of God called Calvinism. They, Calvinist, are without excuses for misrepresenting God, Christ and should be very concerned about the scripture that says I never knew you
@robertrodrigues7319
@robertrodrigues7319 5 лет назад
Nikao you are exactly SPOT ON. The Calvinist in the video " if i go to hell.. so be it, i will have to deal with it".. it is just that God has not elected/chosen me to be saved, etc etc. NO! I f you go to hell you are there for all eternity, and you cannot deal with anything. What a horrible FALSE SOTERIOLOGY Calvinism has. The invitation is open to ALL see Isa 55. God bless.
@nikao7751
@nikao7751 5 лет назад
@@michaeljmccurdy9449 no it's really sad that you don't see or hear the harm Calvinism has done and is doing. You Calvinists suffer from the pride of saving face because it's more than clear that Christ died for all creation and you Calvinists shut up the door for people to be saved and for doing so I would and do question your salvation for doing such a wicked thing. Really who do think you are
@nikao7751
@nikao7751 5 лет назад
@@michaeljmccurdy9449 also after reading your other comment I now see that your problem is you do not lean on as Paul put it the whole counsel of God and from your response I see you are just repeating a man made doctrine
@johnq4061
@johnq4061 Год назад
@@nikao7751There are many calvinists who still want to present the gospel. But yeah the calvinists who shut the door and bash the unsaved i doubt those prideful pharisees are even saved.
@robertlulek1634
@robertlulek1634 5 лет назад
Why would Jesus marvel when people would come up to him and say expressions like never have I seen such faith in this man? Never have I seen this much faith in this woman? Etc.. is he playacting?? God gives all mankind the ability of choice.Mankind knows when they are doing evil mankind knows when they are lost. And yes we are spiritually dead when we are living and continuing and perpetual sin.but when that person or individual realizes his State and is powerless over that sin they are living and are a slave to that sin. And when that person cries out with their heart and soul to God for mercy. He hears!!!
@robertlulek1634
@robertlulek1634 5 лет назад
@@timffoster as far as your analogy of those in Africa that God put their remember God gave man free will. God put us in a perfect Paradise. When sin came unto man the order of things was backwards and ruined. God allows the natural process of sin to progress.God does not put anybody in a remote part of the country and close their eyes and ears you are wrong in that assumption. We do not serve an evil God. God allows the the process of free will. It does not stop that cannibal or person in Africa to cry down and say in their heart, I want to know who the real God is. As the Bible says God and the knowledge of God is in all mankind.even those people you are talking about in the remotest parts of Africa or wherever they know that there is a God.they know in their heart when they do evil that it is evil to kill and they know that it is not right because God gave them a god conscious all mankind.and so one of those who do not have the knowledge of Jesus Christ can fall down in their face and say God who are you reveal yourself to me. And I can guarantee you that a missionary will show to that village, or remote part of the world where he lives. And God will bring the Gospel of Jesus Christ and eternal life to that person.God is not the author of evil and you are misunderstanding scripture completely you need to listen more to Leighton flowers
@donovanwillis568
@donovanwillis568 5 лет назад
This is so sad, and full of deceptions brought about because of pride.
@defendingthefaith.7889
@defendingthefaith.7889 5 лет назад
Donovan Willis yes. Every Calvinist I meet is very prideful.
@andrewlineberger7544
@andrewlineberger7544 4 года назад
Calvinism = "When being better than everyone else ain't good enough "
@ShowCat1
@ShowCat1 4 года назад
@@defendingthefaith.7889 I hear you. It seems that the common denominator between all Calvinist (that I have known) is arrogance. I recently met a man and his wife at a dinner party. Later I asked if anyone else picked up on the feeling of superiority that seemed to be coming from the couple. Everyone nodded. One fellow spoke up and said "Their Calvinist." One more story: My brother's pastor (a Calvinist) spoke at our mother's funeral. The man was absolutely cavalier and used the opportunity to speak about his doctrine.
@jeffreyandrewwinters3719
@jeffreyandrewwinters3719 3 года назад
@@ShowCat1 So you think Non-Calvinist Christians are More Humble ?
@MichaelHernandez-lc2wb
@MichaelHernandez-lc2wb 5 лет назад
What a great example to show us the final "Consequences of Ideas" (i.e.Calvinism).
@davidquinn9476
@davidquinn9476 2 года назад
Amen.......it's human responsibility to choose Christ one reject Him.
@LEUNN_
@LEUNN_ 5 лет назад
How can this be coherent with "Jacob I loved, Esau I hated before they did anything good or bad"
@mikewiththebluecar
@mikewiththebluecar 4 года назад
That was said in reference to those whom God has called to take part in His covenant. In Romans 9 Paul is not talking about election to salvation. Notice the similarities in these verses in Romans 9. “As He says also in Hosea, "I WILL CALL THOSE WHO WERE NOT MY PEOPLE, ' MY PEOPLE,' AND HER WHO WAS NOT BELOVED, ' BELOVED.'" " AND IT SHALL BE THAT IN THE PLACE WHERE IT WAS SAID TO THEM, ' YOU ARE NOT MY PEOPLE,' THERE THEY SHALL BE CALLED SONS OF THE LIVING GOD." What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, even the righteousness which is by faith; but Israel, pursuing a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law. Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as though it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone,” ‭‭Romans‬ ‭9:25-26, 30-32‬ ‭NASB‬‬ “Just as it is written, " JACOB I LOVED, BUT ESAU I HATED." What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there? May it never be! For He says to Moses, "I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION." So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, " FOR THIS VERY PURPOSE I RAISED YOU UP, TO DEMONSTRATE MY POWER IN YOU, AND THAT MY NAME MIGHT BE PROCLAIMED THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE EARTH." So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.” ‭‭Romans‬ ‭9:13-18‬ ‭NASB‬‬ Notice the Gentiles were not perusing righteousness but they attained it by God’s gift of grace. God CALLED the Gentiles who were not His people not according to their will or how they ran but according to whom He has chosen to be merciful to. God also hardens the heart of whom He chooses which at first was the Gentiles but now it is the Jews who are hardened, hence the stumbling block He has set before them. This is also supported in Romans 11. “For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery-so that you will not be wise in your own estimation-that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in; and so all Israel will be saved; just as it is written, " THE DELIVERER WILL COME FROM ZION, HE WILL REMOVE UNGODLINESS FROM JACOB." " THIS IS MY COVENANT WITH THEM, WHEN I TAKE AWAY THEIR SINS." From the standpoint of the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but from the standpoint of God's choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers; for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. For just as you once were disobedient to God, but now have been shown mercy because of their disobedience, so these also now have been disobedient, that because of the mercy shown to you they also may now be shown mercy. For God has shut up all in disobedience so that He may show mercy to all.” ‭‭Romans‬ ‭11:25-32‬ ‭NASB‬‬ According to God’s plan He has shown mercy to the Gentiles and hardened the Jews so that they might become jealous and that He may shut up all in disobedience and show mercy to all. Romans 9 is not about election at all, it’s about God’s calling to one and rejection towards the other for a period of time to bring about the end result that all will come to Him and He will show mercy to all who come to Him.
@mizaelmendez3843
@mizaelmendez3843 3 года назад
@@mikewiththebluecar this is correct, and indeed, many people miss this point.
@jeffreyandrewwinters3719
@jeffreyandrewwinters3719 3 года назад
@@mizaelmendez3843 So what is the true Interpretation of Romans Chapter 9, are Nations and Not Individuals elected and predestined for Salvation, this is so confusing
@mizaelmendez3843
@mizaelmendez3843 3 года назад
@@jeffreyandrewwinters3719 read Mike’s comment again (the one I have agreed with here). He explained the true interpretation of Romans 9. If you are confused about whether nations or individuals are elected unto salvation-listen to me please-that is an unnecessary confusion. I’m not saying that what confuses you doesn’t matter! I’m just saying that this confusion you have laid before me (whether it is nations or individuals elected) is a false dichotomy. It is not either or, but both. How? You ask...alright...take this to heart : Nations = individuals and individuals = nations. Nations are not abstract entities that govern individuals, but nations are simply individuals who compose of those nations. A nation is only an entity with power because it consist of individuals who have power over other individuals. This is why I say that whether God elects nations or individuals to salvation is an unnecessary question, because it is based on a self-defeating premise: that nations are not individuals and individuals are not nations. If God has called America to repentance, He is not calling the American flag to repentance, or the American land to repentance; instead, He is calling all Americans to repentance. This is simplified by saying “God calls America to repentance.” Please let me know if I have been any use here, or if I’m being more confusing, lol.
@myraride9563
@myraride9563 3 года назад
@@jeffreyandrewwinters3719 God election is for corporate or individual service for God's redemtive purpose, like israelites or Moses, or David not election of individual for salvation.Think about Saul, the first king in Israel, God chose him to serve his purpose but later Saul was in rebellion so God cut him off and chose again another one David.
@heatherdowns4754
@heatherdowns4754 5 лет назад
My heart breaks for Derek and people like him. Your final question to Derek is beautiful.. and I pray that he and others see this video.. blessings!
@shilohandme3697
@shilohandme3697 5 лет назад
I love these shorter to the point video's. So well done. Thank you.
@BillyJack85
@BillyJack85 2 года назад
What a toxic interpretation of scripture to have. You would think that hearing an atheist speak like this and essentially blame their disbelief in Christ on your preaching would cause you to wince in pain and immediately abandon that belief and repent in shame? Do Calvinists even respond to arguments like this from nonbelievers? Or does their theology pretty much force them to concede to them? I can't imagine any Christian would feel comfortable in nodding along with an atheist who's blaming their unbelief on God. That almost kicks it up a notch from seeming like a misunderstanding on the part of Calvinists to intentional, outright evil.
@fathervader
@fathervader Год назад
Wow... even more evidence that Calvinism creates atheists. Derek's conclusions are absolutely heartbreaking...
@Dmlaney
@Dmlaney 5 лет назад
so you resonated so much with that view of Christianity that you stopped believing in Christianity which by the way is impossible in your view of Christianity... Calvinists are strange like that
@Dmlaney
@Dmlaney 5 лет назад
​@@timffoster uh no. You completely missed the point. Webb claimed to understand the Gospel which according to Calvinism is only possible if they are saved and have been regenerated. Webb also went apostate from Calvinism which goes against he "perseverance of the saints" doctrine according to Calvinism. Maybe you just dont understand Calvinism enough to see the contradiction.
@barbarahawkins7864
@barbarahawkins7864 5 лет назад
Wow! That long video at the end was heartbreaking to listen to!!🙏🏻
@PreciousMeddler
@PreciousMeddler 5 лет назад
This is great. Exactly the kind of content I've been looking for on this issue.
@The-End-is-coming
@The-End-is-coming 5 лет назад
So one can be a Calvinist and an atheist at the same time. Sort of makes sense since most atheists are determinists. Sad.
@The-End-is-coming
@The-End-is-coming 5 лет назад
@@timffoster Makes sense. Arminianism is just another brand of Calvinism after all.
@branch9422
@branch9422 5 лет назад
@@The-End-is-coming True.
@oracleoftroy
@oracleoftroy 4 года назад
I'm sure one can be an atheist and an Arminian, or an atheist and a traditionalist at the same time, in the sense of believing that those systems best represent what the Bible is saying, but not believing the Bible. But you can't really deny God and be a Calvinist, or any other sort of Christian.
@branch9422
@branch9422 4 года назад
@@oracleoftroy True. I think a better way to express this is: "A practical atheist." Because the man in the interview believes that there is a God. Good point.
@iags1205
@iags1205 5 лет назад
It is easy to say "God gave us all the ability to choose. But what about Muslims or buddhists who do not see the world like you do? What about those who Christ is not a reality in their hearts? No matter how much bible they read, Christ still does not resinate with their hearts.
@jenealeverett2269
@jenealeverett2269 5 лет назад
Personal choice
@robertvalentine4725
@robertvalentine4725 5 лет назад
Exactly it takes a miracle...thank u Jesus...
@briward1654
@briward1654 5 лет назад
A very important thing to keep in mind when dealing with the systematic of Calvinism and those that are promoting it. The system follows in the steps of John Calvin...who was a trained as a lawyer...REMEMBER this. He was very skilled at making Good things sound Bad and Bad things sound Good. He was very skillful in the use of language to hide and smuggle in error. Calvinism uses lots of "Marketing Lingo and Lawyer Speak" Always be on the look out for this... when it sounds like they have just attributed evil to God but then say but God is not the Author of evil...beware they have actually said wrong things about God. Another tactic is to cover up blatant contradictions by saying "well it is a mystery" we cannot comprehend the infinite mind of God... However, remember these contradictions only arise in Calvinism hence the need to appeal so much to "mystery" "paradox" and "tension". When they use these words beware a snake is hiding in the grass, these words cover up error and condition the listener not to examine too closely....
@oldchinyman859
@oldchinyman859 4 года назад
I have to say. This may be your best video yet.
@jubalgilbert7681
@jubalgilbert7681 4 года назад
Currently looking into theology more in depth currently and I was wondering how is it that a Calvinist view gives him an excuse? He is called to have faith yet he cannot which is not something that is obligated from God, just as God calls us to be perfect, also I’m confused on the no excuse issue on the basis of salvation, I don’t believe everyone hears the gospel yet people are still judged, I always interpreted the no excuse passage for acknowledgment of God
@2ndBirth
@2ndBirth 2 года назад
And then we also get the "Eternal Security" "OSAS" doctrine that stems from this way of thinking about God. Like we are just sinning robots, totally depraved, it's all God and if we seek to live a life of obedience, then that's trusting our own works. Man it gets bonkers. It completely removes our personal accountability.
@marktorres8114
@marktorres8114 Год назад
Nobody can come to me, unless the father that sent me draws them
@beeforeal5497
@beeforeal5497 5 лет назад
It's interesting that the belief in freewill is becoming a thing of the past, from Christians to atheists and everything in between. People won't have a problem accepting the controlling mark of the beast if they already don't believe they're in control of anything themselves in the first place.
@briward1654
@briward1654 5 лет назад
You are correct the Atheist scientific community agrees with Determinism... Like you say the mark of the beast will be accepted easily...especially as many in this camp have chosen to allegorize away most of the end times prophecies...so they don't even believe the end times / Revelation is about a real 7 year Tribulation they don't believe it is a literal time but all of that is just an insteresting story that you can take to mean anything you choose it to mean. There couldn't be a better time for the Anti-Christ to arrive on the scene why? Because many so called christians don't even believe there is going to be a literal Anti-Christ in the tribulation.
@DD-ld1xq
@DD-ld1xq Год назад
Nonsense and the last two years have proven this. It wasn't calvinists lining up to get the quackccine as though it was predetermined fate. The vatican cult and atheists on the other hand....
@beeforeal5497
@beeforeal5497 Год назад
@@DD-ld1xq - I won't take the jab either but I don't believe it's the mark of the beast. I think it's for population reduction and I believe it will work with the coming mark of the beast for those who aren't killed by it. I have no idea how many Calvinists have taken or not taken the jab.
@DD-ld1xq
@DD-ld1xq Год назад
@@beeforeal5497 There is no "mark of the beast". That is futurist heresy. The mark of the beast was meant for the Israelites during the time of John, 2000 years ago - not you.
@beeforeal5497
@beeforeal5497 Год назад
@@DD-ld1xq - Well, you can think whatever you want. Don't accept anything inside of you that will be mandatory to buy and sell though.
@sweethometreasures
@sweethometreasures Год назад
What scripture describes regeneration before faith?
@dedios03
@dedios03 3 года назад
Thas last part was so 😥😔 Precious Jesus ha e mercy on us!
@RRRerformed
@RRRerformed 3 года назад
You did prove that a Calvinist can ask a bad question. I think a better question is: "Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use?" R. 9:21 Just taking the basic nature of Paul's illustration here, we could conclude ten common things about a potter and clay. 1) The potter is not the clay and the clay is not the potter 2) The potter is not like to the clay and the clay is not like the potter 3) The potter has complete and ultimate agency over the clay 4) The clay has no agency. It is a passive object 5) The potter can make any decision desired regarding the clay 6) The potter is creating from the same lump. The thing that is determining use in this instance is not the nature or type of the clay 7) Two different vessels are created from this same lump 8) One vessel is made by the potter for honorable use 9) Another vessel is made by the potter for dishonorable use 10) The potter has the right to do this
@anappealtoheaven852
@anappealtoheaven852 Год назад
Tragic. How can they not realise that the miracle is Christ?!
@MarkRidlen
@MarkRidlen 4 года назад
I think the best answer to this idea that "I am not elect" as this young man claimed, is ironically in Romans 9. Paul starts off in verse 19 with a bad argument. 19 You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” Paul references 2-3 passages to refute this. The first is an exhortation against quarreling with God. It is clear that those who are making this rhetorical argument of "why have you made me like this?" as a cover up for sin against God. 20 But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” (This references Isaiah 29 and Isaiah 45) ----- 15 Woe to those who go to great depths to hide their plans from the Lord, who do their work in darkness and think, “Who sees us? Who will know?” 16 You turn things upside down, as if the potter were thought to be like the clay! Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, “You did not make me”? Can the pot say to the potter, “You know nothing”? ----- 9 “Woe to him who strives with him who formed him, a pot among earthen pots! Does the clay say to him who forms it, ‘What are you making?’ or ‘Your work has no handles’? 10 Woe to him who says to a father, ‘What are you begetting?’ or to a woman, ‘With what are you in labor?’” ----- 21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? (This probably references Jeremiah 18) ----- 5 Then the word of the Lord came to me. 6 He said, “Can I not do with you, Israel, as this potter does?” declares the Lord. “Like clay in the hand of the potter, so are you in my hand, Israel. 7 If at any time I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be uprooted, torn down and destroyed, 8 and if that nation I warned repents of its evil, then I will relent and not inflict on it the disaster I had planned. 9 And if at another time I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be built up and planted, 10 and if it does evil in my sight and does not obey me, then I will reconsider the good I had intended to do for it. 11 “Now therefore say to the people of Judah and those living in Jerusalem, ‘This is what the Lord says: Look! I am preparing a disaster for you and devising a plan against you. So turn from your evil ways, each one of you, and reform your ways and your actions.’ 12 But they will reply, ‘It’s no use. We will continue with our own plans; we will all follow the stubbornness of our evil hearts.’” ---- Paul is taking this analogy one step further in suggesting that he can separate the lump of clay and judge the unrepentant in Israel piecemeal and not the country as a whole.
@patrickhornick6151
@patrickhornick6151 5 лет назад
What are the biblical influential factors for someone to choose to obey the gospel?
@trevorkelly7192
@trevorkelly7192 Год назад
Our strength is not in us but in Christ.
@womanatthewell9603
@womanatthewell9603 2 года назад
Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don’t believe. They are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News. (2 Cor. 4:4) Instead of blaming Satan for deceiving people which he has done since the garden of Eden, they blame God. How unfortunate.
@kindlysubscribemychannelto6364
@kindlysubscribemychannelto6364 4 года назад
Any school or college students
@ryancduff
@ryancduff 5 лет назад
How can one be "crucified with Christ" (Galatians 2:20) when one is already dead like Lazarus in the grave (5:00), waiting for someone to come wake them up? This theology is so far from what scripture teaches. If you died with Christ (Romans 6) ... again if you're already dead, how can you die? Colossians 3:3- "For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God" ... how can you die so that your life is hidden with Christ, if you were already dead?
@branch9422
@branch9422 5 лет назад
Wow...that's a new one. I have heard a lot of arguments over the few years in coming out of Calvinism. That is the first time I have heard that one. Interesting. Nice. :)
@oracleoftroy
@oracleoftroy 4 года назад
All those statements are made by Paul. You can even look at Eph 2: 4-7 to see being dead in our sins being directly contrasted with being made alive with Christ. I don't think Paul changed his theology between Galatians, Ephesians, and Romans, so if your argument doesn't prove a contradiction between Paul's various statements, it is unclear why there would be a contradiction for the Calvinists parroting Paul. The only thing I can see to attack is using Lazarus as an illustration of someone who was dead and made alive by Christ. But that is an example of physical death and resurrection through Christ which aligns with Paul's analogy when talking about salvation. It isn't meant to do anything more that that.
@mylifeintheusa4720
@mylifeintheusa4720 2 года назад
How do you make yourself believe? What if someone wants to believe but just can't?
@Cool_Papa_Funk
@Cool_Papa_Funk Год назад
Pray for God to help you believe. Be persistent in that prayer. God loves you and wants to as his own!
@froyvm7868
@froyvm7868 Год назад
You used literally cero 00000.00 Scriptures to answer that question
@LindsayJackel
@LindsayJackel 3 года назад
How would a calvinist respond to their own question ("Why did you believe, but your friend did not?"), regarding the brass serpent on a stick (Numbers 21:6-9), and those who looked and those who did not? John 3:14-15 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in him may have eternal life. (ESV)
@rev.stephena.cakouros948
@rev.stephena.cakouros948 5 лет назад
"And as many as were ordained unto eternal life believed." Acts 13:48. I rest my case for Calvinism and I take my stand against Arminianism or Campbellite rationalism.
@Mark-oo3om
@Mark-oo3om 5 лет назад
c'mon Rev. 13:48 is just a statement about those who would believe opposed to those who wouldn't in v46. As many as were ordained as medical doctors graduated medical school. The reason this passage is significant is because this is the first recorded place that Paul preaches the Gospel to the Gentiles. Jews wouldn't have it, but Gentiles would.
@granthollandvideos
@granthollandvideos 5 лет назад
I really love these clips. I try to not get angry, but just think that they add to salvation by faith, by adding this "awakening of the elect apart from faith". But adding or taking away from the gospel of salvation by faith or my simple natural belief in Jesus, surely must be confronted as false. Faith is the cessation of work, not its foundation.
@granthollandvideos
@granthollandvideos 5 лет назад
@@matt_h_27 Personally, Yup, faith came as I heard the gospel from a preacher that was sent,.It being sufficient in its application to present a decision for Jesus. I believed and was regenerated. Salvation by grace through faith. Simple dimple, Just like the Bible says. But remember I don't see faith as you and WOF people, some type of spiritual or natural substance to be dropped in or added to the human nature. I had eternity in my heart, was convinced of sin righteousness and judgement as a moral being, separated from God by my sin. Not Adams, or God's decree, or an added nature from Satan. Just me believing the gospel, then Jesus saving me. I would say personally it may have been the most "natural' thing I have ever experienced, easier than accepting a peanut butter sandwich from a friend.
@granthollandvideos
@granthollandvideos 5 лет назад
Sorry just wanted to add, I do believe I was dead, or sinful as an unbeliever, not seeking and rebelling, death in my members because of the fall. But this I see as dead in Your sin or my sin. IE I would not have sought God had it not been for the law the prophet's, nature, instinct, the moral code on my heart, the gospel of Jesus, the word of the disciples. But I think those are enough to do what they were sent for. The gospel being God's invitation to me as a sinner,. Of necessity one would have to be a sinner to understand Jesus in flesh on a cross
@granthollandvideos
@granthollandvideos 5 лет назад
@@matt_h_27 WOF have a similar model of the Atonement as Luther, IE that Jesus became sin, as they think sin is a substance or flesh or nature, Jesus actually became a sinner on the cross. Calvin believed the same thing. It is very close to a horrid path, . This idea from WOF that we claim something for ourselves sets it, is also similar to the voluntary belief of a Calvanist to proclaim himself elect, minus a scripture. . Please hear me, seeing as he has no personal scripture to lean on as he has withdrawn from the ALL. So his faith is subjective,. It also is not objective in Jesus who dies for the world, but as you indicate above, subjective as to whether he is elect. Jesus and his work are simply nowhere to be seen. I need no such experience or feeling or worry. The Bible says Jesus died for all, and I am the all. The Holy Spirit I have simply gives the scripture. I have dozens of scriptures for assurance. I need no such feeling or subjective esoteric awakening apart from faith, this idea being added and so accursed. . And that would be too easy to duplicate, no feeling or experience surely can substitute for scripture. . Futher that the atonement or cross had only particular secret people on it, not a punishment for sin leads to a host of strange ideas not even part of Christians outer limits. They also say as Calvin that Jesus "paid my price so doeast see my sin;." The same delusion and misuse of the word, impute, leaves both groups free to sin inside God's blind spot. IE no voluntary forgiveness and salvation from God based on the work of the cross as Jesus took my punishment. Their and your idea of its a done deal just for me is opposite to salvation from him by grace at the moment of faith. Can you see the same delusion. Yet I find it a lot easier to admit that they will enter the Kingdom but how can one say God decrees evil, then remove faith from salvation and pretend your at the front of the Q. Grace through faith, no regeneration without faith.
@rlbisme2892
@rlbisme2892 5 лет назад
Grant Holland excellent points!
@granthollandvideos
@granthollandvideos 5 лет назад
@@matt_h_27 thanks for not replying. I do appreciate that. When the scripture is read properly, most to all Calvanistss will agree they misused it, but still can't seem to leave their position. I would stake my sallery on the fact that you know that Ephesians says in the original that we are dead in our sins, it's a personal use. You dead in your sins and your transgressions. Those which you walked by . IE Paul says they walked by their choice in these sins and transgressions. He goes out of his way to exclude Adam or a nature, or God causing sin in you. IE, this is a voluntary state. It is also a voluntary acceptance of the kingdom, then he puts you in light and does all those wonderful things. Just because he emphasises what God does here, doesn't exclude 1. 14 to 18, of how we accept, receive and believe first,. My dear friend, does Ephesians 2 mention this pre awakening awakening of an elect. You know it doesn't, you have pushed that in yourself. My dear friend if you do not receive the kingdom for ALL as part of the all, grace by faith without adding an awakening , you may not come in. God only accept voluntary service and does not drug his rational creation into submission..
@garyvelasquez187
@garyvelasquez187 2 года назад
How does this so called dead man know he's dead?
@wynandl.oberholzer1702
@wynandl.oberholzer1702 3 года назад
Using Lazarus is a dum illustration.... Lazarus was saved before he died.
@patrickholt4140
@patrickholt4140 2 года назад
I thought those guys were mocking Calvinism
@kevinjypiter6445
@kevinjypiter6445 10 месяцев назад
I thought the same until the very end. Heartbreaking
@Monomore
@Monomore Год назад
How would you explain being 'born again'? Is it a choice that we should/could make?
@Davepq100
@Davepq100 Год назад
Am I correct in assuming that the most impactful and harder to refute videos such as this one are the ones where there are the least reformed arguments posted in the comments section?
@mdbrown5499
@mdbrown5499 Год назад
Why did A respond and B didn't? A was more desperate and aware; B was less desperate and aware. A was definitely not a "better" person, and A definitely doesn't believe that they are. If anything, they are more uncomfortable with just how hopeless they are.
@mpalmer22
@mpalmer22 Год назад
I believed and my friend didn't because I better understood the good arguments for Christianity, I was just simply smarter then him, and when I get to heaven I can take pride in the fact that I used the gift God gave me in reasoning to choose him. However, I still exercise my freewill, and am open to other arguements for other religions, if I hear a better argument for another religion, then I am free to switch, or come back vice-versa.
@brucejane7395
@brucejane7395 Год назад
God never said Jacob I loved Esau I hated during their lifetime. Malachi 1:2,3 is where it is written. Romans 9 Paul talks about the promise of Jesus. Jesus was born of Jacob and not Esau. Not that God hates Esau. Unless on hates his mother and father he can not be my disciple. Same word hate. Jacob and Esau buried there father together. Edom moved into southern Israel and worshipped the God of Israel. Jesus came from Jacob. Herod and Judas would come from Edom. Not all Edomites were condemned.
@justgopherit3454
@justgopherit3454 5 лет назад
Thank you so much for your teachings Leighton. I have had so many questions over the last few years, and you have answered a great number of them.
@j.prt.979
@j.prt.979 6 месяцев назад
Honestly one of the stupidest questions I’ve ever seen. I mean, this isn’t even an argument. Does this even need to be addressed? Why did I accept the gospel but not my friend? Because I decided to and they did not. In fact, it’s more defeating for the Calvinist. At least it will make them think about the lack of justice in God condemning their friend arbitrarily and expose their false gospel.
@fromthepew5507
@fromthepew5507 4 года назад
So according to Derek, Calvinism is how God, (who doesn't exist) works to save man from hell. Poor guy his brain has been twisted. Derek is a living example of how dangerous and damning reformed theology can be. Matthew 23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves. My prayer for Derek is that he will be able to here the truth about God's love for all men.
@nathanprophet9393
@nathanprophet9393 2 года назад
Spiritual death isn't the same as physical death. While one still has breath, he can hear and respond to God's invitation however he wishes. All are born spirituality dead, but are not born physically dead.
@davidquinn9476
@davidquinn9476 2 года назад
Jesus said the one who comes to me I'll know Wise cast out. So it's simple why not just come to him and choose life.
@dawnboudmer1956
@dawnboudmer1956 2 года назад
Great vidéo in defense of the biblical truth.
@davspa6
@davspa6 5 лет назад
I think Flowers' wording is not correct. Calvinism does not claim to make someone "better" or "more able". It is not a new mental insight or ability that the regenerate receive, as he is implying. Rather it is a spiritual awakening. The person moves from not truly caring about things of God, being at best indifferent about Christ, to loving Christ, being enthralled by Him, and being grateful for His work on the cross. This does NOT come by intellectual insight or new understanding. It is NOT a mental issue at all. Flowers is completely wrong if this is what he means
@davspa6
@davspa6 5 лет назад
In reading the explanation above I assume Flowers is explaining that Calvinism claims that regeneration makes the heart more humble which allows the believer to then believe. Respectfully, this is not what Calvinists believe. The believing is not done by the person as you are implying. It just happens. It is not a 1-2-3 thing where first you get a humble heart, or first you get insight, second you believe. It just happens.
@davspa6
@davspa6 5 лет назад
What I meant to say was it is not a 1-2-3 thing where first you receive a new heart or a new insight or a new understanding, then second you choose to believe. It happens all at once. It is not an enabling by God to believe as you seem to me to be implying. I think part of the issue is that we as humans are finite creatures, and we're trying to describe something that's caused by an infinite being. That is very difficult. But we should not base our understanding of scripture, or spiritual matters in general, on how well we understand the textual terminology, the logical order of what we call events in salvation. God does not have to work that way. Logic is just a tool that lets us humans describe events in a serial fashion. But God is not constrained by human logic. He is the source of truth itself. So we make a mistake if we do that, if we force our understanding of spiritual events to be constrained by some human logic.
@allin4once
@allin4once 5 лет назад
These two guys sound like people in a paid infomercial. Very sad to see people so 'SELF-Blinded'.
@edsnyder2801
@edsnyder2801 Год назад
Ephesians 1:19 And what is the exceeding greatest of His Power, towards US who believe, according to the working of His Mighty Power.
@snackpup
@snackpup 2 года назад
the more i think about it the more i hate calvinism. because it takes away the normal person's choice to believe on Jesus to be saved of his own volition! and it perverts the Word of God for its purposes. God put his Word above all his name. so that is really really bad. and i know they have done it because i have seen it. and i also have done it
@robertcain3426
@robertcain3426 Год назад
Calvanism, from my understanding, does not teach that the one who believes is better than the one who doesn't. Quite the opposite. No one is better and it's God's grace through the giving of the Holy Spirit.
@primeobjective5469
@primeobjective5469 5 лет назад
Awesome. I made a video about this question of theirs a few months ago.
@quincysthillaire
@quincysthillaire Год назад
This should be send to any person that a Calvinist Friends.
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