Answers for Kris - Parents of Kris Kremers walk the same Pianista trail in search for answers 

Me too, its the bizarre circumstances which has left an ominous air hovering over these events, and the fact that we are no closer to solving the mystery today than we were back when this case was still fresh is a sad and at the same time terrifying thought.

Same here.. I've watched videos about so many cases before.. but this one really haunted me. The first time I heard about it was more than 1 year ago and I still come back every once in a while

Me too. This really affects me. It's like I can feel their pain. Poor girls suffered. I feel they were being chased and therefore didn't return to the way they came in. And the police didn't fingerprint everyone who handled evidence. It's as if they were trying to hide the truth.

Same for me... Seen and read about so many other crime cases or disappearance cases, but this one indeed keeps haunting you. I think the fact that we have so many clues and also those night photos and the phone data, makes it particularly haunting

@@scarletr.7753 What do you make of that photo of Kris in front of what looks to be a cave? Quite a haunting photo. Her hands are behind her, perhaps tied, and she is awkwardly bending over.

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I agree

I believe they were killed unfortunately and my heart goes out to their brave families .. the world still cares love from UK

Right 💞

Exactly!!!

Oh,.. Shit..

She offers Feliciano something that he does not want to accept. No.. no.. no.. no... Was it cash or food/drink?

I’ve always found in life the truth is not what we expect best let sleeping dogs lie ❤️🐾🐾

Oh shit . Upon watching this vedio, suddenly a thought came to my mind that feleciano knows everything......

​@@anniemay4547 or maybe just don't let sleeping dogs lie.

It is not unheard of, true. There are killers who go to the funerals of their victims. Killers who help the police as witnesses, acting the Good Samaritan. Or who show up as a cooperative local to help on search parties, indeed. All in a longing for control and a perverse enjoyment of other people's despair.

U r right

Feliciano part is so big in this mystery from the beginning to the end. The fact that bones, one boot from each victim and the DENIM shorts were staged after the reward was offered. Is it a coincidence that Feliciano found the boot with the foot inside...that his employee found and returned the pristine backpack?????

@dish dog 🤣

Castro yes that was insane that case!@

CUBI SMIC How are they going to get justice from country like Panama it's corrupt and they want to hush it all up they know what happened to those girls they where murdered

@@TheGhost-gx5vd That't the reason I already commented. This case should be raised on higher level investigation and forcing suspected persons to the limit. Ironically suspected person speak with parents..maybe they drink coffe together. Tragedy

I think that the parents really don’t want to know the truth. Lisanne Froon’s brother said so in a tv late night show. They are tired and want some peace. Any new pieces of information about the disappearance would be bad news anyway and they know it.

@@annem6714 Even if the parents don’t want to know the truth, there is still a potential murderer or even a group of them who could still lure and kill innocent tourists. How would you feel like if your own children would be going on a hike with such suspicious people? The truth must be revealed and this guide and his friends have to be punished for their terrible crimes, this case has to be solved, so that the spirits of those two girls can finally Rest In Peace. There is no excuse for not investigating further considering such a horrific crime

@@arminiuscherusci4410 Agree. I tried to explain what I understood from the interview with Martijn Froon and other interviews. I don’t believe that justice will ever happen on this case, and I think the parents of the girls think so as well. Panama is another world.

Do you mean the story of the German girl? I wrote about her case on my blog (koudekaas.blogspot.com/): "This is a very important case I believe: In the same region, a German tourist was kidnapped and raped by three local rescue members in 2017 Interesting detail: this German tourist had gotten lost in the jungle of the Panamanian province of Veraguas near the El Bermejo waterfall, roughly 140 kilometers east of Boquete, and the three locals who abused her were part of the rescue operation. And they were said to have been drinking heavily when out looking for her. When they found her, they hid her in one of the wooden sheds in the jungle and managed to keep her hidden there from the other searchers for three days. In which she was raped and abused... One of her attackers ended up in hospital due to the wounds she gave him while trying to defend herself with a broken rum bottle. If one of the three thugs hadn't been bleeding so heavily in the arm, belly and thigh that he was at risk of bleeding to death, she may never have lived to tell the tale. The others fled with him and rushed him to hospital to save his life (and indirectly hers I believe). Things may have ended very differently for this brave young woman otherwise. So not that unheard of eh? Same region, same jungle, near same scenario. And she was not found by the larger search teams. Just goes to show someone can actually disappear in such places, despite scores of people looking for her. And that a lone woman is never just safe, out there on her own. Makes you wonder if such type of gems also helped in the search actions for Kris and Lisanne.. And very recently an American tourist was found dead in a hostel in Boquete."

@@scarletr.7753 Oh my goodness that is so damn awful about the American lady, poor poor lass. I recently watched a documentary about the girls, it so sad that women still can’t walk around unhindered by creeps, their mothers should have brought them up better (bit of irony there). We’ve been fighting for equal rights for a couple of hundred years or more but you still need a male chaperone. The person who made the doc said that the travel agent bloke had rave reviews but they were all by mixed couples but a woman that was on her own left a scathing review about how he was always getting hold of her and followed her around, she also went on the same hike as the girls but he started to follow her so she said she didn’t need help and he said in a half joking way that he would cut her legs off if she tried to run away from him! Also, he was the one that found the shoe under a bush and found several other bits and pieces like the rolled up skin that was still in quite good condition. How would that work? Some bones are practically bleached white but skin that’s found even later is still in not bad nic. Both sets of parents must still be going thru hell, your baby is turning up in bits and all you get is politics from the politicians, scared that the very lucrative tourist industry will go down the Suwannee river. They wouldn’t need to cover up if they cleaned their act up. Funny about the taxi driver though isn’t it?

@@jenniferholden9397 So true. All those woke pronoun options are fine and dandy but at the end of the day, as a woman you have a much higher risk of becoming the victim of stalkers or getting killed on a date or stuff like that. Life isn't fair but as a woman you always need to be careful about where you go alone and who you meet alone, it's as simple as that. Yeh I read that review from a woman called Sophie. It got over 200 upvotes. But then again, he received very good reviews as well, so this bad one, although there are more than one, many people just cast it aside as nonsense I noticed. It beats me too how anyone would find a rolled up ball of skin on the ground in the jungle. Just as it beats me how hardly any media outlets or journalists have reported on this insane finding. It was hardly decomposed. I guess it doesn't fit with the accident narrative, so it is just selectively ignored. Or the pathologist and journalist who reported on it are demonized and ridiculed. That's how these things go...

@@scarletr.7753 Veraguas is 2 provinces over from Boquete. Could you give details of the dead tourist in the hostel?

@@scarletr.7753 what was her name????

Jovenes Holándesas Profesionales, fueron engañadas, secuestradas, y cúánto sufrieron por los asesinos, con sus fechorías atroces, con alevosía premeditado, sonrientes creen en el crimen perfecto que en realidad no existe. Por los pocos restos humanos de sus huesos blanqueados; es Biblíco no hay nada que no sea oculto, y no manifiesto; DIOS AMA LA JUSTICIA. SALMOS 11 : 7 Y Hará Justicia con todos. Dios quiera permitirlo, conforme sea su voluntad, misericordia, a los Padres, y todos conozcamos la verdad.

I agreed with you .

Absolutely - they were smart girls, they even suggested other tourists not to go into the woods without a guide.

I believe on the way back they met their kidnappers which first acted like "friends"forced their guidance upon them and then close to a parking place on they got more hostile and then forced them into a car maybe even pretending they will drive them back home and brought them to a remote place etc. It makes sense if you look at the time frame. By the time the first emergency call came they must have been close to where the trail started. After this their phones were taken. I believe its related to this gang group or related people to it. Also the taxi driver might have seen people before they started the hike when he dropped them who were waiting for them or he was there close and saw sth when he was waiting for other customers. Quite sad so always if you are a girl and also are attractive go in a group, with a guid dont go alone. Yes 99,9% of the time it might be fine but you dotn want to have the 0,1% just be safe.

I’m right there with you. Big love to the grieving families too from 🇺🇸

It makes me so fucking mad. I’m dutch to, they are from a town is used to visit a lot. I can’t imagine something like this happening to one of our own. What a sick world we live in.

We're these bones truelyz the girls both running for there's lives ! Bleached bones cooked boiled , actions does this ! These two s girls were beings hunteds ECT. No questions about it . Girls knew it tried getting aways as they were being chased & hunted downs.

This has happened before there's perhaps many times befores ECT.theres needs toos bes accountability justice for all's people now's specials teams for missings people's as it continues to goes missings in s community s around s the world's ECT. As these twos young girls we're gorgeous awesome amazing smart looking let's works as one people's get accountability justice for all's everyone's Thank you

Total eso paso

Thank you for translating this!

all the locals there are actually cannibals

Alejandro Cáceres So Gringo goes for everybody white? Not only for Americans?

@@froggylegspeople yes

L Coelho Thank you.

I know that closure is absolutely critical when it's somebody you care for. I would hate to leave this world knowing the despair my loved ones would feel for not understanding why and how my life is over. How can you truly say goodbye to someone you've loved your whole life when they vanish and months later all you get back from them is their shoe with their foot still in it, and some pelvic bone fragments and all they say is that they belong to daughter and she is dead

@@chodkowski01 Live does not end... You suddenly can have a concieus again on a planet. Time,matter and live exist and will never parrisch.

The real sadness is that whoever did this, if it was for misguided sex-murder, now the result is that one might have liked you and dated or married you- but now you have ruined your chance, and everymans' chance of loving these girls and maybe having a great life and family. Horrible. You kill the love object of your dreams-- now what do you have?? Nothing ,no smile ,no laugh -only evil nothing!

@@billlincolnmd9159 I hope for them it was mother nature, and not some sick idiots. There are some realy wired facts in the story that are just not fitting in normal behavemand of people and equipmand in those day's. How can for instance Feliciano blame the govermand not acting fast enough, while he takes his time from 09:30 to 17:00 to go to the police? He could have made a fricking round trip on the Pianista and back between those hours. Your so concerned about the girls that you enter a house for 30 min to look inside, but than take 7 hours and 30 min to go to a police station??? Now 2 (strong) witnesses say that they have seen the lady's go up the hill on the 1st. One of them saw even Feliciano on the 3th of April "pulling her shirt", what could mean he asks her, i'ff she has seen them on the 1st of April ( But her wired twist is the mentioning of the lady's stepping in the car. Where allong the track uphill was her position, because i have seen a car pritty far going up that track? Now there was there a red 4 x 4 and there where young gang members been seen, at or arround the track and i'ff they had phone contact with each other, the car could have bin driven more up the track to pick them up sooner.) Now that lady that spoke with Feliciano... She let Feliciano know at the 3th, that she has seen the girls go up the track. Now why does he say then to the parrents, that he saw NO trace of the girls, when he knew about the eye witnes already on the 3th of April? Did he ask more people and did he mention this to the police in the 3th, knowing these 2 where up to adventure, as he had a apointmand with them on the 2th?

@@chodkowski01 Crossing a road is not save as well, yet we do it almost every day.

Duping delight.

@@acb5245 yes!

What's even weirder is that he was in holiday-guide-mode, showing off the beauty of nature, as if they went there to book a trip...

​@rondale8722true. It is a red alert.

you are a good detective thats what i was thinking these people cannot be trusted come on

Good comment, and so true. We are attracted these days by flashy influencers, travel channels, travel programs. And traveling is wonderful. But you have to take into account the possibility that something, somewhere abroad, always can go wrong. And when you are stuck with a justice system like in Panama, which was either criminally incompetent or criminally corrupt, you finally realize that you are very far from home and from the infrastructures we got so used to. Remain watchful of your surroundings; enjoy meeting new people but don't be naive and take precautions. A friend of mine, female, backpacked all by herself throughout northern Africa and the Middle east, a decade or so ago. Not a single bad incident. But she took precautions, dressed like a boy, did not believe offers from people which seemed too good to be true or too unsafe. You can never cut out every risk, but when venturing out in a jungle or a vasy national park, it is always wise to bring the right equipment, a satellite phone, an emergency tracker and such. One has to be prepared for the worst, unfortunately.

I am 6 feet,180 pounds. I have hiked and camped in Haiti, Yucatan and the Everglades, mostly in my youth. I only carried a knife for protection . I was lucky. I would never do it again in my "wiser years." The times they have a'changed.

Ok Sherlock !!!!

All of your comment is false lol. There was no bleached bone lol. No deleted photo. Backpack was dirty, torn, wet with a snail inside. Cameras and phones were soaked and had to be carefully disassembled by experts to remove data.

@@sagnorm1863 Hello Panama touring agency

@@sagnorm1863 thats a str8 lie

@@sagnorm1863 No bleached bone and no deleted photo ????? How can u be so sure ???? Do u have any proof or reliable sources???

@@sagnorm1863 wrong..do you research pls

@MJ indeed hhhhh

If the police did their due diligence and investigated properly, he would of been aggressively interrogated, his home searched and flipped upside down, his family, friends and associates would of been interrogated fingerprinted and homes searched. It's amazing how the last person who sees them alive isn't even seen as a suspect? I'd almost want to bring a flame thrower to that police department and set the whole place on fire

Who?

@@vineethsandra4337 The very last person who saw the girls alive. The tourguide

@@jakenorthbriz may be he was know everything.. It case include any taxi driver?

@Lori Miller That creep keeps spitting as she speaks. The guy is involved

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Poor mum.

She copes better than I could. To have a beautiful innocent daughter die a horrible death like that would probably kill me on the spot. Nobody should ever have to go through that

same here

Também acho que foi isso, bela pesquisa

@@sansantos6005 Desconsidere a observação 2 que eu acabei de apagar. As fotos do cabelo de Kris foram tiradas na floresta, não foi tirada em nenhum cômodo escuro. 100% de certeza! Ficaram três observações, ao invés de quatro.

It is all speculation and looking for theoretical possibilities, but as to 1. Kris and Lisanne may have secretly tried to call by 16:39. Because they were afraid of the 3rd party being with them and not allowing them to return to the trailhead. It is also possible that a 3rd party made those mock calls. There was no GSM reception by then, wherever they were (according to the official call log info), so if a 3rd person knew this then they could also have allowed the girls to just try calling, knowing it would create a nice fake trail, matching their behaviour if they really had been 'lost'. - Don't forget that we have no evidence that it were Kris and Lisanne who freely used those phones. Strange fingerprints on those phones were never further analyzed or matched, and never was a voice message or a text message created, which would have for a fact proven that it were Kris and/or Lisanne who made those call attempts. It technically could have been anyone. 2. Yes this is very odd. I think that mostly everyone agrees that it seems very unnatural for two foreign young girls lost in a jungle OR kidnapped, not to try to call at night. Forget about 911 or 112; why did they not one time try to call their mum and dad? Or Myriam? Why was Myriams'whatsapp number looked up specifically on day 3 but never called? Indeed, it may very well be that they were accompanied by someone overnight, and that's why they didn't try to call all evening and night, during their first night out there. Very good theory, thank you for sharing!

@@scarletr.7753 Hello Scarlet! Before you answer me, I made a very similar reasoning to yours in another video about this case. In my opinion, not having any phone calls made from the girls' cell phones, to family members, friends or acquaintances, is definitive proof that the cell phones were taken from the girl's hands, along with all the belongings in the backpack. I believe the girls didn't make any of those phone calls. As for the night shots, it certainly wasn't the girls. Because two lost girls, I would never wait a whole week to make use of the camera and photograph the places, photograph themselves and so on. This was a double murder, not an accident or an attack by wild animals.

@@scarletr.7753 I have a similar theory, but with some other suggestions. It is very possible that they were being held captive but under the pretense that they weren't "really" being held captive: this is a common psychological strategy that a kidnapper can use while THEY are deciding what to do with their victims, because they might not have fully made up their minds to go through with the full crime. Thus, it's possible that they allowed the girls access to their phones to make emergency calls at certain, regular points of the day, perhaps suggesting to them that reception would be better at those times (knowing it wasn't), thus giving the girls a false sense of hope, and keeping them in a state of fear and uncertainty wherein they will be confused as to what's really happening to them so they might not be inclined to fight or attempt escape. Captive gaslighting, so to speak; the captor could make them believe that he is making an effort to have them picked up by emergency services or something, but that it will take a few days...etc. They could also have hidden their phones from the captor(s), and perhaps the reason they made emergency calls at certain times of day was when their captors may not have been present to keep watch over them. OR, their captors may have confiscated their phones but they were able to access them when the captors weren't present. If this was a haphazard, spontaneous crime that unfolded in stages, the criminals may not have been particularly vigilant about keeping track of everything to the detail. Additionally, if the criminals know they have enough power to bribe local authorities (bribing is the NORM in 3rd world countries) and are in a position of power in the community in general, they would have likely felt that they could act with impunity - typical behaviour of adolescent gang members, for instance. Young gang members aren't usually calculating psychopaths but rather driven by ego-driven sociopathic passions that are reinforced and exploited in groups wherein nobody is really thinking or planning anything thoroughly. I do think it's possible that they were both abused and then left for dead somewhere in the bush - the perpetrator(s) could have thought perhaps they were both dead already when they left them, if they were unconscious, and/or would have injured them so thoroughly that they knew they would die after being left in the jungle on the precipice of death. This could explain the photo activity on April 8th being the point at which they were left for dead, with Lisanne within an inch of her life making one last desperate cry for help. By this point she would have been incredibly disoriented, possibly suffering from head injuries, multiple injuries, in excruciating pain, laying beside her dead friend...with only the camera in reach. Although, I guess that wouldn't explain the SOS signs...so maybe she still have just enough mobility to make those too. I think maybe the most plausible though is that they were forced into the jungle by someone, abused, beaten etc. and then left for dead. Maybe from there they managed to run and hide - they would have had hours to do so, maybe even days, if the perpetrator returned to his "normal" life to do his business - enough time to luck out on a hiding place where the perpetrator wasn't able to track them. If they were hiding, they would have been way too terrified to make any noise or to take any photos for fear that the flash would give away their location. Also, if multiple people in the community were involved, they probably would have been terrified and distrustful of any local at that point, hence again, laying low in a state of paralysis of fear and injury rather than calling out for help. Depending on the timeline of events and when and how they ended up where they did on the 8th, using the flash at night directed towards the sky would have been a last ditch desperate effort to alert air traffic, also knowing probably that the locals would be sleeping and thus maybe they felt a fit "safer" at night to do that. What I can't understand too is the lack of personal messages or more attempts to contact family...I feel like there is so much more in this case to explore from a psychological standpoint, for instance: is there anything about the character of Lisanne or Kris that would suggest that they, individually, would not attempt to leave a message to family? It's just too implausible...or perhaps by the time one or the other may have liked to do so, they were too injured to form a sentence. Brain injury or something akin to it being very plausible, or inability to type. Psychologically, I can imagine that some people may not want to turn the camera on themselves in that scenerio - or they were unable to do that also. But perhaps they were JUST able to , barely, hold the camera in a mostly static position and press the button from an injured, reclined position. They could have also been going in and out of consciousness - I haven't seen that mentioned as an explanation - perhaps only just able to attempt 911 and nothing else. All in all, I do think Lisanne took the night photos. It makes a lot of sense to me, I can imagine myself in that situation doing the same thing to alert air traffic, to light up the SOS signal, and what not. A 3rd party doing it - that seems too far fetched and just doesn't make sense. You can feel the hopelessness in those shots - its incredibly palpable in my view. Someone who already knows they are not going to survive, on the precipice of death, trying one last time... But, why did they (LIsanne most likely) not try that again the following nights, when they did attempt during the day until the 11th to check reception, and call emergency...perhaps they were unconscious the following nights, or again, frozen in fear or injury and hopelessness. We have to understand that severe PTSD would have been at play in the behaviour here as well as food deprivation and injury. Likely by this point they would have been incredibly delirious, hallucinating, and semi-conscious. Or, someone else found them at this point (probably already passed away), and tried to get into the phone over the next days...but then that doesn't explain how they knew the PIN but not the other code to get into Kris's phone...again, only makes sense that it was Lisanne who made these attempts...perhaps at this point she was trying to use the phone to contact family, leave messages, but couldn't..and potentially had already given up on trying 911. Plus trying to preserve battery in the days before when they had more hope of survival could explain the lack of messages. It is still difficult to fathom but I think there could be multiple explanations for that outside of foul play scenerios. To close my statement, I will say that if anyone who watches this video cannot see the very obvious odd behaviour of the guide(s), then they don't have very keen awareness or empathic abilities. What I can't fathom is how Kris's parents wouldn't have felt suspicious of them...maybe they did, but didn't show it, out of fear and uncertainty. I did see a pretty strong indication of Kris's mom being very triggered and uncomfortable when guide F. took those snapshots near the end.

Henry Elizar Gonzales is a real psychopath. I think it was Henry Elizar Gonzales and Jorge Murgas (dead), who took the girls to the Caldera Springs, where they met Osman Velezuales (dead) and Heriberto Gonzales (dead). Jorge Rivera Miranda (dead) spotted the girls with Henry Elizar Gonzales and Jorge Murgas, at the pharmacy. A witness came forward and said, that Henry Gonzales (and Plineo Montenegro), were into organ harvesting. Henry and Jorge Murgas assaulted the girls. Raped them and kept them hostage. Then Henry Gonzales and Heriberto Gonzales went to see Edwin Aguirre and Vega Moises, at the Sabron restaurent (the dog blue). Edwin Aguirre wanted lungs for his client. They were supposed to take them to a clinic in Costa Rica with the help of Plineo Montenegro, but it went wrong. A physican related to Edwin Aguirre outside Boquete, took the lungs and more, at his clinic. They are involved with the Mafia and organ cartels. This wintess fleed to Costa Rica after giving her testimony to the Pitti. Feliciano Gonzales is covering up the crime for his son, who killed Jorge Murgas , Osman Velezuales, Jorge Rivera Miranda and Heriberto Gonzales = Los 5 gang. Only survivor is Henry Elizar Gonzales, leader of the LOS 5 gang.

@@alexursexner3000 if most of they died,they already receive what they needed case almost closd.

@@alexursexner3000 creepy

@@alexursexner3000 Y entonces por qué no se ha detenido a nadie y parado a esta mafia ? Será porque el gobierno panameño está involucrado ? Porque no encuentro otra explicación . Y que eso salga a la luz en los medios de comunicación . Que también están involucrados si no lo hacen . La pena y la rabia que da es que este mundo el que tiene más dinero es el que manda, todos los demás somos subordinados y se nos pueden quitar los órganos cuando haga falta . Que triste el sistema en que vivimos .

@@alexursexner3000 I think couple plain clothes dutch special forces should return favor and liberate lungs from them.this is owed to their citizens that are denied justice. Insult to injury

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stop smearing people

@@spleeeen4it jummi, the guide says '' I told you not to say anything '' That is, that is evidence that Feliciano KNOWS SOMETHING that he does not want the parents to know, I speak native Spanish, I am using a translator, the guide is the culprit, he knows what happened, do not forget that the remains (pelvis and foot with boot ) was found a few meters from a cabin of the guide Feliciano, the guide went to the house of the Dutch and entered to touch their belongings, probably to confuse the investigations, Feliciano has many cabins around the trail

@@spleeeen4it try translate '' Domingo, te dije que no le digas nada a ellos '' Domingo is a name in spanish, in addition to Sunday in English

Yes and if a person infiltrated the group someone will talk in private- it would take time to get to the truth.

It is solved. They got lost and died. There are just some details missing

​@@HobbyBowler Them being lost is more likely but its just on the bases that you are probably still far more likely to get lost in the jungle than getting murdered. Theres nothing that disproves foul play either so you might as well say they were murdered and there are just some details missing

@@HobbyBowler Don't be a fool, the "got lost and died by the river" explanation is a bunch of sh*t.

@@HobbyBowler Lost? You're kidding right.

@@HobbyBowler no not until all the bones are recovered

A suspicion is no evidence, and just because he likes girls, like most men, doesn't mean he is a killer. His reviews are all excellent,except for one girl's who remembered 2 years after the fact, that he showed a bit too much interest, in her opinion...that's strange too.

I got a creepy feeling when that tree was hacked. My God it was just a few whacks and it was apart. A strong Man could easily chop off a Girls ankle. Something happened. The Guy who was pushy, scared the Woman who reported that he had threatened to cut her legs off. Yeah maybe it took her a year but i can tell you when you're traumatized time can go by in a blur. A year after a harrowing experience isn't that long. I believe her.

@@lorimiller4301 that tour gide has done it before lots of European women has gone missing on the same trail the tour guide has lots of money he paid the police off to erase that one picture he said it him self he was infatuated with white European girls and he said he would chop the leg of

@@devonhaggar3007 well thats bullshit ...

I don't find that review to be trustworthy. Probably some trolling.

Nice catch .. FG , his son and PM r definitely involved

Ok, if that's true please explain how it is that the girls were able to make the emergency calls. And what numbskull killer leaves the phone and photo stuff in a backpack for the police to uncover. In order to have a logical theory all the pieces must fit cohesively, logically.

Listen you said everything I said. Case closed.. Matlock 🤔

@@unite4peace88 Because it could be that only one emergency call was made by the girls, the first one. The subsequent ones could have been made by a 3rd party knowing there was no service. Why plant evidence for the police? To mislead them into the lost scenario

​@@absmith4724 Phones, ok, so on day 8 the other girl, not Lisanne's phone gets locked based on too many attempts to access it. doesn't this ruin all the work the KILLER has put in the previous 8 days. 1st he's super smart, then suddenly does something very suspicious, and stupid for someone trying to perpetrate a lost girls coverup. Now he’s given the police, doubt that they got lost. So you're telling me the killer went to the jungle on multiple days to take photos of the night sky, using the flash at a time when really only a desperate person in distress would attempt to do such a thing. Just to throw off the police. Cmon guy.

I'm kinda obsessed all of a sudden

Same thing happenend to me too a while ago. Been checking out all the resources and material I can find on this case. It is crazy how some people still believe this is just a "lost in the jungle" scenario.

The same here I learned about this case this year don’t get me wrong it was really creepy and chilling but not only that I’m also A little obsessed with this case this case is one of those cases that draws you in it’s very interesting and I hope the truth come out about what really happened to the girls so justice can be served.

u have to always use a code between u a your girl..and never let her travel alone ...stay safe

I agree Feliciano looks to be the most likely suspect, though clearly he could not have done it on his own. My question is why hasn't he been arrested and charged? Is it, because the Panamanian authorities are dragging their heels for fear of the impact on tourism? The Dutch authorities really need to find some way of taking charge of the local investigation. Whilst it is left up to the Panamanian government it will probably never be solved.

oh really? don't talk rubbish

@@spleeeen4it clearly you know fuckall about this case.. go do some research and everything leads to the guide and even he himself gives off the vibe that he is responsible.. go jog on !

@christine cheeseman funny coincidence that isn't it ? Seem as they died when the investigation got ramped up.. still believe they were silenced by being killed

@@jakecross4628 it's too late. many years have passed. there are many deceased witnesses. it should have been decided earlier, in hot pursuit. now it will be difficult to do this.

Duping delight.

!!!!!!!!!

Definitely this tour guide involve in this case

💯

No, they were not murdered

@@Josh-mh3kl mr josh is this sarcasm or you really think they weren't murdered the tour guide killed them and the taxi driver the police covered it up for money they erased that photo

The Taxi Driver was found dead in a puddle one year later. They said he drown. He knew something.

@@lorimiller4301 it was the tour guide

@@Josh-mh3kl filiciano...

maybe because they did not

Exactly but people like to create false narratives and conspiracy’s and not let the girls rest. They got lost in one of the most inhospitable jungles in the world and is all they did to prepare was go on Google. 🤦‍♂️

No criminal leaves the smartphones for 10 days at his victims. And even if foul-play-theorists wanna say here "the emergency calls were false-flag-operations to make it look like they were lost" - doesnt make sense: the pin was entered correct for many days. The phone was used the first days in a manner lost people would use it (Lisanne looked up google maps, and the weather app at 2nd/3rd April) , and also the host family was looked up (which makes sense). The "get lost theory" only has one single weakness: very little information what happened to the girls between 5th april and 11th april. The "foul play theory" has dozends of weaknesses - which simply doesnt fit to a murderer-case. No murderer wants to hide his tracks by giving the investigators fully functional smartphones of his victims, and camera, which can be forensical examined for data. No murderer if he has the time and opportunity places the corpses at a place were indios easily could find it. No murderer makes over 100 photos in the middle of the night from one spot in the sky - for 4 hours (!) in the rain (for a cover-up-mission its good enough to make maybe 10-20 fotos in 5 minutes, thats it). Nothing of the foul-play-theory fits together. And a deleted image 509 proves nothing , just that people can fantasize everything into it how "big things were in that image" Its very likely due to bad handling of the data by the forensics. Because most pictures looked black in the night shots, they were probably not easy to distinguish from eachother, when they did the enhancing. They probably copy-pasted the pictures back and forth to the sd-card, and in that process they forgot to copy the image 509 back (espescially because it looked the same as image 510, etc ). They mishandled the nightshots in general (very bad enhancing of the pictures, also due to saving and replacing they accidentely deleted metadata , while the metadata of the pictures before 509, stayed intact (because those pictures didnt needed enhancement). People on the internet over-interpreting literally everything in this case. And its easy, because there is so little information what happend to the girls. For me, everything fits to lost-girls who died of starvations. Espescially the timeframe 1st april to 11th april, perfectly fits how long a human body with no food can survive (its really about 10-14 days at best). The clothing they had had no signs of blood or injuries. Also in the one photo of Kris in the nightshots, there is no sign of injury or blood. Because her hair is very clean (also a contradiction to a treatment by foul play) , its very likely, that the girls didnt hiked a lot after they got lost. That also supports the fact, that the first remains upstream which were found, was very near to El Mirador and to the location 508. They stayed where they were, for two reasons: they didnt wanted to get lost more in the jungle, and wanted to stay as close as possible to the last known position (the host family knew they wanted to go to El Mirador), and they didnt want to risk to lose fresh water supply by going deep in the jungle. Unfortunately that was a bad decision as we know now. But it makes sense why the girls thought they should stay at one place. A criminal also doesnt let the girls make a "SOS"-sign out of paper. And if he does it as false flag-action, he would photopraphed that sign much more clearly.

@@PygmalionFaciebat 'No criminal leaves the smartphones for 10 days at his victims. ' On this I agree. There IS no right or wrong argument with the phones and their logs - I do feel confident that the way they are used shows one person is handling them, not two, and the way the switch on's of the phones are so regular and scheduled shows to me neither are moving after tuesday, so I have no real doubt on these two points at least. The way the Samsung is used in the first two days suggests Lisanne is the one who has possession of the phones, I can't say why it is that the password is being entered by wednesday morning, or why the I-Phone is being upscaled to 3G, but that one switch-on that morning for this phone is all you get - the rest is all Samsung. Until next day that is when the Samsung has been exhausted and all there is is the I-Phone. So either you have Lisanne, or some third party. But then given the distances and what we know of the time needed to walk to the river just where are they by the end of tuesday afternoon? They can't be at the river. We know people do use the trail, yet no one reports a sight or trace of them. We hear suggestions you can lose the trail once past the meadows, but nothing about the use of either their phones or camera suggests they made it this far - it took them two and a half hours to get to the stream - two and a half hours to return means a rough 5pm timeframe for getting back to the Il Pianista, and from there arranging transport back to Boquete and home. The fact is we know so much more about what the terrain and trail behind the Mirador actually looks like, and we have firsthand video recreations of the walk to show us. What once seemed like mysterious and difficult forests and fading pathways isn't so unknowable anymore... and while I don't begrudge you feeling the two got themselves Lost, after the last two to three years has revealed so much new insight and research into the Pianista, and police files have revealed a wealth of new information and insight, I myself find much to be suspicious and curious about.

​@@davidmullen6011 Very good questions, and i agree with a lot of your points. Espescially with the points: That that area, the culebra-river, the pianista-trail, and the area past El Mirador, is not as mysterious, as it probably was in 2014 for most of the internet-folks. But that also means: For Lisanne and Kris, the area back then was quiet unknown - and not as well known, as we do now. As far i know, Lisanne knew very little about the Pianista trail. As far i researched, she simply researched it 1-2 days before ... and thats it. It was more like the information of an ad , she knew about the trail. She read, that the pianista-trail is considered as easy and quiet short (a 5 hour trip - back and forth). Thats why she thought that her google maps is more than enough for the hike. We know, that before she went into the taxi, she looked into google maps at around 10:30am (some sort of last checking, and probably also she wanted to know what she had to say to the taxi driver where she wants to be thrown out (the name of the El Pianista restaurant etc)... I dont know for sure, but it seems, that when she started the hike, she didnt even looked once into google maps. The second time she looked into google maps was already on El Mirador itself. For me, its a question, why she looked in google maps at El Mirador. Because on El Mirador there are literally only two paths: one way back... and one way further north. So it seems for me, that she didnt look into google maps for the purpose "how to find the way back". But on the other hand, i dont know for what she would look to go further. Google Maps in 2014 was not very good (Bing ist much better for that area). And i think even the satellite-photos of that area back then were very blurry. So i really dont know why she should look into it, because there was nothing really to see. I doubt that the meadows were a spot in google maps. Not even today the meadows are clearly shown on google maps (with 2022 satellite-material). My only explaination is (and thats not a strong estimation): that Lisanne knew from the internet the day before, that beyond El Mirador there are coffee-farms of the indigenous people. She had for sure no idea in which distance they are away. But she and Kris were very interested in the Panama-people in general, and i they were very fascinated by the thought to find those coffeefarms. Lisanne looked into google maps on El Mirador in the hopes, she could get some hint where it could be. She only knew: north (or northeast from El Mirador). Thats why i am very sure (and i agree with Feliciano on that) : Lisanne and Kris never reached the meadows, because if they had reached it, they would have made a lot of pictures there (because its really a nice place to take pictures). So for me, hints are often things like: what the girls DIDNT do. From the point of image 508 both girls had more than 2 hours to get to the meadows (while its only around 30 minutes hike from the 508 spot, to reach the meadows). So the fact, that a) in over 2 hours they didnt reached the meadows, and b) no pictures are taken, it means for me: they never reached the meadows. That also fits to Felicianos assumption. And it fits (maybe) to the google-map-usage at El Mirador. Because you have to turn to the west (from 508) to get to the meadows. But west means in the head of Lisanne "away from north... away from the coffeefarms" ... so after 508 i assume, Lisanne and Kris somehow found, or interpreted something as path to east or northeast. We know that area as you also said it much better today... i also read that a lot of dried small riverbeds can seem like trails. For me its very likely, they both went northeast a while,.. but found nothing (that also explains perfect, why between 508 and the first emergency calls they didnt made any pictures ... i am sure 509 was not shot at 1st april.. because when they made pictures from a spot they always made a bunch pictures at once, and not a single one "somewhere" .. they even made pictures with their smartphones together with the camera - so i strongly assume image 509 already belonged to the nightshots) and then after around 1 hour of finding nothing they thought "we call it a day and go back" , ... but when they tried to find their way back, they didnt find the track (probably because light conditions changed the appearence of the jungle.. sun was already much lower, casting bigger shadows, etc)... We have to keep in mind: they both had zero experience, and not even a compass (at least they didnt used it .. on Kris phone there is a compass-app - but she didnt knew that, or even if she knew: a lot of women, doesnt know how to navigate with a compass... espescially when they have zero expierence with hiking). In the second part of my answer i want to adress your good points about the phone usage of Lisanne and Kris (i have my thoughts about it - maybe its interesting for you).

Second Part of my answer (more into your thoughts about the phone usages): I dont think that Lisanne per se was in the posession of both phones. But it was Lisannes backpack, and its usual for women, not to carry their phones in a pocket of their jeans, but in a bag. In this case the backpack of Lisanne. That doesnt mean, Kris had to ask every time to get her phone. As we see in the photos previous to 508 : sometimes Kris carried the backpack, and sometimes Lisanne (mostly it was Lisanne though). But in general, i would say: Lisanne wasnt the one who "possesed the phones" ... It just happened, that Kris put her phone often into Lisannes backpack. For me, thats also the reason, why we clearly see: that Kris handled her phone total differently than Lisanne. Even on the first day! In general she seem to be the more cautious girl of both. She is the first who makes the emergency call on 1st april... and lets not forget: it takes Lisanne whole 12 minutes to get also convinced to make a emergency call! So it fits that Lisanne is the much more careless women of both. She is, as i said in my first part of my answer, who had the idea with El Pianista... She was the one, who looked into google maps on El Mirador, for a further hike obviously , and she was the one, who picked that hike, and planned it , because it was her backpack and she didnt bothered to fill it with a lot of supplies (two small water bottles, one pringles, and chewing gums... that was it - for the 5-6 hour hike on a terrain she didnt know, and without any experience or guide). That for me proves she was very careless - much more, than Kris. But Kris trusted Lisanne, i would say, and so she went along. But Kris still behaved her own way (meaning: she tried to be cautious) - and therefore in the days after 1st April, she really used her Iphone as rarely as possible. While Lisanne used her Samsung quiet careless. Sure she could (and probably had) her usage defendet by : "i need to look into the apps, etc .." ... We know that she looked into google maps on 3rd april, in the night, between 2:21am and 2:47am , and she also used the weather app (also something a criminal wouldnt prioritize if a criminal has the phone). I am not exactly sure, what you meant with "password entered wednesday morning" (3rd april). The pin of Lisannes phone was always entered correct. I am also not sure, wether you meant: that Kris phone somehow died or didnt died but always got a wrong pin, while Lisannes phone had its battery empty ? After wednesday Kris phone was often turned on, and with a correct pin. And even after wednesday (better we peak of numbers of April )- so even after 3rd April, she made at least two tries to call emergency (on 4th april). You said: we know that they werent at the river, because people use that trail (i think you mean the river at 508) . And yes, people use that trail. We also have the saying of Kris mom, that Kris never would leave the trail. Yes, maybe not the cautious Kris... but about Lisanne we dont have such a claim from Lisannes parents. And the river at 508 isnt only that long as in the photo. That river is at least one mile long. For a jungle thats long ..and the trail goes through the river, not along with the river (meaning the trail only crosses it a small spot... the people have no reason, to go along it). So the question, where they were at 2nd April is really hard to answer. I also agree with you, that the girls phone were powered on quiet on a reguraly base. Though i dont know how much that says about "they stayed at one place the whole time"... i assume that, but i wouldnt say: that we can conclude that from phone data alone. A lot of people see it as suspicious that the pin on Kris phone wasnt entered correct (or not at all) at 5th april and later. I dont see it as suspicious. Emergency calls you also can make with a phone which doesnt boots up. There was no reason to boot it up to drain even more battery (remember: Kris was always the more careful cautious one). And after Kris saw, that on 5th April her phone had only 30% battery, she went even more careful with her battery, and didnt boot up her phone from that day on). The phones are almost used at the same times of the day each day...espescially after 2nd April. They power it on at around 10am .. and again at around 2pm. I like to think (though i have very little prove of that) , that this indicates: a small hike to a higher point, to get a signal, and then getting back again to a point they know. After 6th april, that kind of behavior changes, and they doesnt do that anymore. Between 6th april and 11th april there are no effords to do anything with the phones. I interprete this as: they gave up (physically and mentally) to go each day to a point to hope for a signal with the phones. Thats why its plausible for me, that Lisanne tried a complete different approach: by signaling with the flashlight of the camera on 8th april - which as we know was in vain. The interesting fact about this is again: what the girls DIDNT do. Kris is clearly alive at that point - she was photographed from behind. And her iphone also had a flashlight, and her phone had enough battery at that point... but again: Lisanne was not able to convince her, to signal into the sky. More than that... it seems, that Kris absolutely didnt participate in that idea (meaning : it seems that Kris didnt helped at all, by flash-signaling with the camera). For me that indicates that she not only was much more careful (didnt wanted to waste battery of her phone) , but also had different opinions about what to do in that situation). While Lisanne (as we know her already with the Samsung phone) , wasted the whole camera battery on that night in 4 hours of flash-signaling , Kris seemingly just wanted to rest and sleep. And also the last usage of the phone (Kris phone) perfectly fits to Lisannes behavior... On the last day (11th april) , Kris phone was powered on for over a hour (!) , wasting the rest of the battery completely. Thats why i am quiet sure: that was not Kris who was using Kris phone on 11th April.. but it was Lisanne, because we know that behavior two times from Lisanne (how she handled her Samsung phone.. and how she handled the camera). Its always "betting everything on one card - one idea" ... While Kris seem to want to save ressources as good as possible, and wanted to be careful as possible. Thats why the El Pianista hike also was not Kris idea, but Lisannes idea. Thats why also to hike further than El Mirador, was not Kris idea, but Lisannes idea (as we can assume it by: Lisanne looking into google maps at El Mirador.. not Kris is looking into her google maps) . We can see two personalities - who had different approaches to deal with their situation. Because of the lack of experience and knowledge in both girls (and the lack of preperation with gears, food, etc) , both found the same destiny.

@@PygmalionFaciebat 'That for me proves she was very careless - much more, than Kris. But Kris trusted Lisanne, i would say, and so she went along. But Kris still behaved her own way (meaning: she tried to be cautious)' When I look at the characters of both women they are uniformly described by all who knew them as - Lisanne was the cautious one, quiet, always thinking, introverted, and very sensitive. Kris on the other hand was very extrovert, Impulsive, outspoken, and "a bit mad" according to her parents! You can see this playing out in those photographs that afternoon, with Kris always storming out in front, lisanne always a good twenty to thirty feet behind. By the time they reach the stream they are at a crossing point as they really do need to start back at this point in order to beat the sun setting - you don't set out on a walk this length, and in such an unknown area, without having your timeframe and plan worked out. These two didn't drive, so they would be very concious of bus and taxi requirements, they would need to know where there was a taxi and bus stop, they would need to know what their plan was for the day, and not for one minute am I a believer that they lost track of the time - they knew the time on the Mirador, and there is evidence of a further phone check between the two about fifteen minutes before they reached the stream. So they _were_ aware - And I am not even factoring in the supposed farm tour the two allegedly had agreed to the next morning for a very early get-up for an 8am appointment, *that* claim is a story in itself. This fixation people have, that the two walked and walked that afternoon until they lost themselves and lost all sense of time... it combines with the common assertion that by 6pm the two then came across a convenient shack to stay in for the night, though no one can quite explain where this shack was. They needed the shack in order to explain the 6pm switch-off, and make sense of the lack of any activity that night, but when you try to put yourself into that scenario it still doesn't make sense as you have to assume neither of these two very different personalities wanted to light up their phones and hope for a call to get out, or a contact to get in. Twelve hours in darkness and lost in a wilderness is an eternity, I wouldn't see either sleeping in this situation, so why is it they spend that long night in the dark and isolated, but switch on early next morning after sunrise and try then?!? The very first thing that struck me as strange about this disappearance was the phone logs showing that neither of the two switched their phones on after 6pm - this is a feature across the five days - because not for a minute could I imagine two girls (or anyone else) not switching on their phones out there in that context, in the pitch black, and being completely lost. You cannot make that make sense. When you factor in the April 8th photographs it adds to the strangeness as out of 90 photographs and two and a half hours shooting you have only ONE shot that even hints at the two being there that night - #580. A bizarre shot, it shows everything, and yet shows nothing. Is she alive? How do you spend two and a half hours firing your camera in darkness without capturing anything of yourselves? The whole point at hand here is - there is nothing after 2pm on that tuesday that categorically shows the two are still alive. Nothing. They don't get 'lost', that is just assumption, rather they both just vanish off the face of the earth. With not one trace to be found, until June... how fortuitous.

O te mata a ti

Something is wrong with this man, i have that feeling as well.

thats what i was wondering about all the time for Gods sake

💯

nah, there's photos of them on the trail. They're not photoshopped

Pero como explicas todas las fotos en el sendero el pianista, incluida la del mirador si no estuvieron ahi?

​@@jj-if6itMabey not

Yes! What i read was that a gang of (5) guys did this. Osman Valenzuela, Jose-Manuel Murgas, Henry Eliezer Conzalez, Efrain Manuel Rios Gonzales (bijnaam Adonis, the rapist and murderer en friend from Henry). He raped and murdered Nuris Esther Castrellón a 50 year old lady. In 2018 at a periode of 6 months 22 woman where raped and murdered there. The Panama city police did interrogate (the hard way?) these guys and not long after these guys are murdered. Just like the 34 year old taxi driver Leonardo Arturo Gonzalez who drop of Kris and Lisanne at the beginning of the trail. The leader of the gang was the son of the tourguide ‘F’. On the cell phone from one of the gang member was a picture (total 2) with two guys and two girls swimming at a place (Caldera area) near the trail. They say it is Kris and Lisanne on the photo’s. But you have to look well to see it. I think they are on the picture. Also Lee Zeltzer found some snuff pictures showed up at Darknet: two girls on the ground surrounded by a tribe and Kris her face beaten. Lee also died short after he finds out these pictures. (He knew to much??)

Too many Forsenic Files...

@@acb5245 you have a lot of information I havent heard before, like the name of the taxi driver. Can you tell us how you came to these conclusions?

​@@catlinferris5970 I cant remember where I read it. But I´ll look into it.

@@acb5245 just curious

Ikr! Isn't that super sketchy?

The answer is right in front of them.

Fucking weird indeed. Well... After thinking about this particular phrase... It seems that Feliciano and Domingo know something and don't want to share this with the cowboys coming soon after... I guess about this is the conversation about.

I know, I heard that too, “no les digas nada” I got chills

Whoever edited the Answers For Kris video *must* have the end of that sentence and who knows what else in their raw footage.

​@nickers7409 no where is that information said on any website blog or videos.

wrr

они заблудились. были ранены одна скончалась. вторая убежала еще дальше что бы не видеть труп подруги

ellos se perdieron. uno resultó herido y murió. el segundo corrió aún más para no ver el cadáver de un amigo

@dish dog mejor comentario👍

@dish dog good points. didn't realize he was home, but to the same point he would want you to think that. more i think about it, the more the girls got lost makes sense. or at the very least, got assaulted, and one was lost thus able to make calls.

@@TheAlien666 как возможно не сделать ни одной фотографии за неделю??

Yes. Thats the most reasonable theory. I believe the same

Yes!! Indeed, that seriously seems most likely.

That would explain them calling the authorities so early, both of them calling on their phones for multiple days, and them going off on a different direction, probably trying to avoid that original trail.

@@davidlenz9902 and all the evidence were placed in deference positions to mislead the investigation. Specially the night photos.

@@davidlenz9902 the 3rd party who has involved seems to have a good knowledge about the area. I wonder why the local investigators didnt want to go any further rather than coming up with a fairytale.

It was the smirks and the eyes cast down, the body language was very weird and I'm no professional but I pride myself on reading body language and they were uncomfortable but almost mockingly, like we know, we know, but we wont talk.

Yea that smirking at whatnot.

literally he couldnt stop smirking, why did they not find that weird?

@@daltonred7774 Cause they believed that he ( Felicano) was genuinely concerned about what happened to the girls. I'm sure they think different nowadays.

Felix is an old farter.. I don't think he has enough power to kill 2 girls! No I think he might go along with the idea as a culprit.. But Not as a killer..

Here is the problem with the "Feliciano did it theory' how in your opinion did he get access to the girls phones to call (112) on April 1, 2, and 3rd. Makes no sense. These girls were not attacked by Feliciano, I have a pretty good theory on what actually happened, but I'm going to keep that to myself.

Why is he not being investigated it's beyond me

@@troypowers9578 by whom? you don't know how things work over there.

@@unite4peace88 anybody with half an inkling of common sense knows that Feliciano did not kill them.

@@unite4peace88 If he´s the perpetrator, is your answer. What I read was that a gang of (6) guys did this. Osman Valenzuela, Jose-Manuel Murgas, Henry Eliezer Conzalez, Efrain Manuel Rios Gonzales (bijnaam Adonis, the rapist and murderer en friend from Henry). He raped and murdered Nuris Esther Castrellón a 50 year old lady. In 2018 at a periode of 6 months 22 woman where raped and murdered there. The Panama city police did interrogate (the hard way?) these guys and not long after these guys are murdered. Just like the 34 year old taxi driver Leonardo Arturo Gonzalez who drop of Kris and Lisanne at the beginning of the trail. The leader of the gang was the son of the tourguide ‘F’. On the cell phone from one of the gang member was a picture (total 2) with two guys and two girls swimming at a place (Caldera area) near the trail. They say it is Kris and Lisanne on the photo’s. But you have to look well to see it. I think they are on the picture. Also Lee Zeltzer found some snuff pictures showed up at Darknet: two girls on the ground surrounded by a tribe and Kris her face heavenly beaten. Lee also died short after he finds out these pictures. (He knew to much??)

Thank you ❤️

😍

Thank you Scarlet for working so very hard on this case that was mired in lies . Well done

@SALT AND PEPPER which two men standing on the rock behind is a falls? Could you explain?

Esse caso é muito bizarro, ate hoje não temos uma explicação, talvez nunca tenhamos, mas espero que a verdade apareça. Muito triste tudo isso. N consigo nem imaginar no que elas passaram, é completamente desesperador. Que estejam em paz 🖤

Infelizmente acho que estão desistindo

Tomara que Não desistam!

Sim, e pelos testigos que também morreram.

Olha, eu acho que a teoria de que elas se perderam e depois sofreram um acidente é a mais plausível. Elas caminharam até o topo, e depois prosseguiram imaginando que era fácil como a trilha El pianista, em determinado ponto, quando já estavam bem a frente, se perderam e não souberam mais como retornar. Eu vi também um vídeo em inglês em que uma mulher caminha pelas bandas de onde as meninas foram, e ela disse que é relativamente comum algumas pessoas acreditarem que seguindo sem parar nessa trilha, você acaba na cidade de boquete, quando isso nunca vai acontecer. Elas podem ter pensado isso e seguido em frente. Não há nada que indique uma terceira pessoa, diversas vezes elas tentam entrar em contato com a polícia (inclusive holandesa), e até acessam aplicativos dentro do telefone. Eu li na internet também que é relativamente comum pessoas morrerem perdidas na floresta e o corpo simplesmente desaparecer, ou aparecer pedaços a beira de riachos. De fato, não há nada que indique uma terceira pessoa. Se fosse um sequestrador, estuprador, ou qualquer outra coisa, jamais teriam recuperado o celular, a câmera, e até dinheiro dentro da mochila. Para mim isso é uma evidência bastante clara de que elas morreram sozinhas mesmo. O pé de uma das meninas que fora encontrado não há marcas de corte por serra ou dentes. O que acontece é que temos teorias da conspiração pra basicamente tudo huahua

WOW THIS COMMENT

Dude I know, and I see no one else saying how the photos at night could have just been taken by the criminals or even by him, just messing around with it before they died or such

There where 90 night time pictures. Let me count.

You just sent a shiver down my spine

@@KD--sj8eo I'll have you know that Felicano does infact speak Dutch,. But of course he's not going to let the parents of Kris know that.

That part stood out to me too. Aside from the fact that he and his friend look incredibly shift and can;t even make eye contact during the whole video, what possible reason does he have for taking a flash photo of two greiving parents in broad daylight? The smile on his face tells you everything. It actually makes me sick to my stomach knowing that her parents were stood right next to their daughters murderer while he laughed at them.

Duping delight.

That look was so careless and cold

And he shifted when he ate something standing in front of them. A real psycho.

Yeah he tends to show up everywhere, their apartment, search party, think he even found the bones. Of course he was never questioned ir checked for dna or fingerprints.

@@nedmerrill6228 He also tells the mafia boys when he is conducting a tour so that they stay out of the way. He is front of house for the mafia boys.

@@nedmerrill6228 Would you say they were taken to his house where he has a coffee plantation?

@@patrickcassidy8543 That would be my guess. They would also have lye there to use as fertilizer. Remember the one girls bones were bleached with lye.

he was linked to a lot of steps in this case, although may not have had anything to do with their direct disappearance? I wrote about it all in my blog series; koudekaas.blogspot.com/

@@scarletr.7753 I'm in the middle of reading your blogpost right now and it is by far the most detailed and thorough post I've read about online for this case.

@@Wierdgirl5834 Thank you. And apologies about its size

@@scarletr.7753 no need to apologize, it's good that you went through each and every single possibility!

@@Wierdgirl5834 Thank you! I did my best to cover what is currently known about this case

This is so heartbreaking evil and sad❤ i know Jesus gives them everything ❤ this evil stole. I pray for all in need ❤ 🙏

Then taking a flash picture of the parents WHILE they are filming him... After telling his team in Spanish not to tell the parents about..... (unclear what). It is bizarre for sure

I noticed that too, so suspicious...

If you listen carefully Feliciano said "Domingo te digo que no digas nada de las la muchachas or muchacha.

@@reflected616 Así es, eso dice: Domingo ,te digo que no le digas nada a ella...

@@alexandratabet9619 Sunday is the translation of Domingo, but domingo is also a name

He exposed himself, but I wonder why the video cuts out their?

It is so sad... Same thing happens every time someone goes missing abroad. Our Dutch authorities shake their heads and shrug their shoulders and hide behind 'Panama is leading', while leaving it to the poor parents to organize their own search operations, their own media appearances etc. or else nothing is done. Meanwhile the corrupt politicians in Panama (in this case) can do whatever they want to ruin the investigation and cover up what really happened.

All we can say is that he should have been checked out and officially ruled out. But that wasn't done by prosecutor Pitti. So we just don't know and everyone is innocent until proven differently.

@@scarletr.7753 Not innocent in my eyes.

@@Benji-jj2bg I have my suspicions and beliefs as well, but we have to stay fair because the prosecution f*cked this case up and didn't do what they should have done to properly investigate.

Hi david. Yes they stayed in Alto Boquete, which lies a bit further away from the town of Boquete and also from the trailhead. Kris and Lisanne were reported to have had breakfast in town before/around 10:00 and then they took a taxi. Strangely enough, the taxi driver who actually brought them to the Pianista around 10:30 has never been identified, nor did he come forward himself. Two other taxi drivers did (one said he picked them up around 13:30 on April first - he drowned a year later) and the other stated to police that he picked them up at 13:15 but on March 31st. Neither could be correct, according to the New Timeline. So that is strange and Boquete does not have that many taxi drivers that police couldn't interview each and everyone of them to find the right one. But they didn't. Yeh Lisanne downloaded google maps at 10:16, still at the restaurant where they had breakfast. Yes the taxi would have taken about 15 minutes and both taxi drivers who did come forward stuck to that time of 15 minutes. Yes I agree, I also think that especially Lisanne who consistently is described by everyone who knew her as prone to planning and making lists, that she would have been aware of the time of day and how much time they'd need to go back again. I just found two old interviews with Martijn/Lisanne's uncle and another with the parents of Kris. Some of it with interesting details. I will tgranslate them both and upload them over the course of the next days. Martijn mentions Casa Pedro in it and confirms again that they were working on the road there at the time. He saw so himself. And walking on towards the Pianista trail was not that easy he claims. At the time they still believed that the girls may have walked the Piedra de Lino ( a smaller loop walk halfways up the road toward the Pianista trail). I still keep the option open as well that they returned after photo 508 and met foul play on the way back. We now know from Matt/Imperfect Plan that 50% up the mountain on the Boquete side, the iPhone of Kris already lost GSM connection. So that significantly largens the area where they could have disappeared off the radar without their phones regaining GSM connection.

@@scarletr.7753 This conflict and clash between stories (the Taxi) is typical of the aftermath of their disappearance, but when I look at your summary there I did wonder for a moment whether it is possible they _did_ or didn't take a Taxi. Logically they must have, so that is what I will stick with. It hadn't registered with me that they dined at the resteraunt before beginning, that is a very interesting point to think on, as if anyone there had an interest in these two tourists it would have been easy to follow them I imagine. Any chancer or petty mugger might have a very good game given the route is largely limited and there is only one way to get to the top. Catching up to a potential victim would be a straight-forward business.... ------------------------ I find most people who drive a car don't understand what it is like not to have one. If you are a pedestrian, like Kris and Lisanne, you are limited and governed by your available transport options (Bus/Taxi) or whether somewhere is within your walking distance. When you have a car and drive though everything is 'five minutes away', whereas when you are with no car and don't drive then everything is... different. Your world is different. I understand this reality well, it is only in the last decade that I finally learned to drive, and it does change your perspective. Lisanne and Kris had been in Boquete only three days, they were exploring the town but we can see very well from that map Lisanne is studying at the cafe, and then the check with Googlemaps on the summit, that they really are very cautious, or lisanne at least is. The paper map was apparently in her backpack on this hike, but it is so simple and limited that like Google it would have been completely useless on the summit. This is telling us that they are walking in unknown and unfamiliar territory, I am sure they knew this. So their 'home' is Nine kilometres from the starting point of the trail, this is a significant detail. From what I have gathered the two friends did make a point of being home at Miriam's by tea-time, certainly sunset, and I am sure this was another element at play that afternoon as they were on the trail. While I can imagine they might wonder whether the other path on top of the Mirador led back to Boquete the fact is they don't know that it does. And they have no idea where this path would lead out to either. It is another important detail to bear in mind as it would be vital they knew this, how long was this path, and would it lead out to civilisation and an accessible public transport route...? The actual hike is challenging enough to walk, but when you have no car yourself you are inherantly governed by the worry over getting home, and _how_ you will get home. When you think these simple practical questions through it becomes extremely hard to believe the two friends walked off over the horizon as they are said to have, childishly hoping for the best, with no idea where this path led. And I don't believe they were this foolish and unaware.

@@davidmullen6011 a waiter in town who served them breakfast declared that he saw them getting into a taxi around 10:30 and said that one of the girls meantioned going up the mountain. Of course, when all the inconvenient witnesses were swiped out of the case, one has to wonder why this man's words should be believed automatically. Just because it seems to fit the prosecution's new timeline.

@@davidmullen6011 and then there is the language school staff member Marjolein, who told Kris and Lisanne during an introduction talk not to hike alone and that the Pianista does not loop and that hikers need to return onbce they reached the summit. Maybe that didn't all register with them on Sunday, but perhaps Lisanne did remember it. Normally someone would, you tend to visualize things when you havent seen such an unknown trail yet and are given new info then.

@@scarletr.7753 But bringing pets on a taxi is not allow in centroamérica. That's the part that I don't understand.

Learn english first and look into your own country which is in economical crisis for years.

Lmao

@@rumiexpresse9049 yeh but least it's civilised.

Cierto ni loca iría ahi ESE LUGAR NO ERA PARA ELLAS

Why they even went to that turd world country in the first place is the real mystery! Seems like they would have been safer in Afghanistan than there.

Ji, thanks for your kind words. Yes what I know is on my blog (koudekaas.blogspot.com/) and there have been other people who got lost on this trail, but only one other person has known to disappeared without a trace; Alex Humphrey from England, back in 2009. He went missing in the proximity of Boquete though and perhaps not on the Pianista trail. But as far as we know from Sinaproc, all other tourists and locals alike are normally found again, during search and rescue operations. This is an odd case in many respects.

@@scarletr.7753 hello ma'am scarlet if I'm not bothering you please answer my question is this Feliciano Gonzalez still alive as of this year 2022?

@@armadei4426 Yes he is.

@@scarletr.7753 ma'am scarlet thank you so much for your replied to my question so this wolf in sheep's clothing is still alive it's so shame full for the Panamanian government for not investigating this Diablo old man may God cursed this Diablo old man... God bless you ma'am Scarlet.

Los holandeses de la escuela de español en Alto Boquete, mi teori'a, que ellos esta'n conectados con la red de tra'fico de o'rgano que pasa por Costa Rica, frontera con Panama' y en componendas con otra gente de Boquete ofrecen trabajos engañosos y asi hacer llegar a la gente hasta Boquete prometie'ndole cualquier clase de trabajo y los llevan por tour en esas montañas y los desaparecen porque en ese lugar no existe seguridad de ninguna clase..nadie busca, nadie investiga..y todo e'l pueblo sabe quienes son los criminales, pero con miedo que los maten, no los denuncian...Todas las autoridades esta'n en la componenda

Haha sorry!!! It takes me a week as well to go through it for top ups or to see if I need to make corrections. But thanks anyway for reading it and for posting here, appreciate it

It's pretty obvious the guides know what happened. They (K & L) kept walking because they thought the translation on the website meant 'loop around' which they interpreted as 'the trail will loop back to Boqueta'.... not loop around as in turn around and go back.... Kept going and got lost.. villagers found bodies and buried them. Then when the huge money was put out, they returned some items. I feel sorry for the villagers for not getting the money TBH. Why didn't they??? I would be well annoyed about that. That reddit thread though, you know the one I mean, is pretty much what happened tbh. And no one can blame the villagers.

@@mavis1108 Hi, the translation in the website said 'loop around'? Do you have a source link for this or something else that confirms this? Was that what they would have found back in 2014 if they had googled the Pianista Trail, you think? The Lonely Planet guide (language school had that guide) mentioned "This pleasant day hike winds through dairy land and into humid cloud forest. You need to wade across a small river after 200m, but then it’s a steady, leisurely incline for 2km before you start to climb a steeper, narrow path. The path winds deep into the forest, though you can turn back at any time. To access the trailhead, take the first right fork out of Boquete (heading north) and cross over two bridges. Immediately before the third bridge, about 4km out of town, a track leads off to the left between a couple of buildings. Don't go alone and exercise caution as robberies have been reported here." -So, you can turn back at any time. Nothing there about a loop. They both spoke English, I doubt they needed to use a translation engine for an English text...

Great comment spot on

Yes but then how did these people who don't know anything about cell phones know how to definitively delete the 509 photo from the camera using a computer? even I, who use my iphone very well, didn't know it was possible to do this by using a computer. ....?....

Dear Officer, in my opinion, urgent and intense investigation by local police would lead to definitive and conclusive evidences. Unfortunately, this case is an example of indifference, tardiness and unprofessional actions from Boquete authorities and police to the locals, who contact with Kris and Lisanne. Particularly Feliciano was poorly interrogated...

How many cases did you solve in your 23 years..? I'd bet your pension and raise you mine that on your logic you never got a single conviction.

@@goonerash Well douchebag. You would lose and I couldn't live off your Baristas pension so go troll somewhere else.

@@goonerash I couldn't live off a baristas pension so go troll some where else.

@@CountryBoy1069 you're an internet super sleuth, I bow to your superiority. I will take my trollings to a lesser opponent.

I don't believe someone would have to threaten them, rather they meet them on the route and being charming and good natured he convinces them to let him lead them down the other side of the mountain for a little look.... or perhaps he even talked them into coming with him to visit his ranch which lies not far away over the other side. This is called Coercive control, where someone is controlling events but is doing so with the will of the other person, as that person is swept along by your personality and charm and lets you lead the way. All it is is a possibility I stress. But if this did happen, then at some point the two girls become aware of the fact they are being swept along into unknown areas and become very tense and nervous, leading perhaps to them finally starting to think about phoning for urgeen help. They are not being threatened here, but they are in increasingly alien and uncertain territory with this man and it is fast moving out of their control they sense....

oooo...good to point out! this guy has my stomach turning .Perhaps he got Kris and Lisanne ran into the woods to hide but they eventually found her?

@@davidmullen6011 You know...the parents never ask what was just over that fence they got to, did they? My first question was that once I saw how clearly, that was not a barren area. People live there, erected a fence and the trail is one way clear with no cliffs. Pretty easy to see for sure... I know the parents got the picture but they need to think deeper and I do hope they turn their attention to Feliciano!

@@blaqgirltherapy4982 It's definitely what happened. Trouble found them. They got loose. And unfortunately trouble eventually caught back up with them. This guide was involved. He was the last to see them, and the first to find their backpack when the reward came about. And he's acting shady as hell here. And tor extremely defensive when questioned

They have machetes

Hi, thanks. Yes I have seen his video, it is very good indeed. It's in my playlist here about the case and I also added his views on the bone fractures of Lisanne's foot n my blog series on this case: koudekaas.blogspot.com/

That's why I'm here

His video is great

You may mean this photo: 1.bp.blogspot.com/-4ZNnL7b7bS4/XfopR3mtrtI/AAAAAAAAA-A/_UMDUUmvVNIeG-wBodmD9hh79J740NUegCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/IMG_0541.jpeg Some see a hairy finger in it, others the jawline and neck of a person, maybe others see something else in it altogether..

Turn the picture sideways and hold your finger against it! fits perfectly!

@@vanilleorchidee6626 Too much hair though for a finger I think it's a jawline, from below it makes more sense to have some hair in the picture then

I see a finger with long hairs

The guide's behaviour is the one that stands out, his assistants are _very_ subdued and seem to have been told beforehand to keep quiet and do as they are told. Or else. The guide though, look at him on the summit at the 8.00 mark and he is twitching and jumping, and even has a camera in hand .pointed at... someone. What _is_ this behaviour? This is the man who, just six weeks (i believe) earlier, had discovered the remains, and concluded that the Bridge was clearly the source of an accident that claimed the two. And now here he is, with the solemn and grieving parents, and his behaviour here and on the meadow is almost bizarre. Where is the empathy, the dignity. Indeed call it simple respect. He loves being at the centre of attention, but watching him here there is absolutely _no_ empathy or consideration for the loss of these two parents. By contrast his assistants do seem to show due respect and solemnity, it could even be argued that they _know_ something perhaps.... but are not being allowed to express what they know.

I think your theory is a plausible one, thanks for adding a sensible perspective to this, so many people make wild baseless speculations and it's rather frustrating. It's essential to link the phone calls with what occurred, and add the photos to fill in the other questions. One quick point, have you noticed how AFTER, the summit, (that decision to carry on further) there is a change, not only in distance but in the expressions on Kris. In my opinion Lisanne was upset they were going so far off the original trail, this also explains why no other photos were taken after a certain point. She was upset, wanting to turn back, put her camera away, but Kris pressed on, even going off the path, Lisanne at a certain point didn't want to leave her friend behind, so she followed, at a certain point, I think Kris gets injured, and that's when the emergency call begin. This explains a lot of what happened and makes a logical connection between cell phone data, and photos, by the time Lisanne pulls that camera back out, she's only doing it to try to get her and her friend found, rescued. She was not only a beautiful girl, she was smart and brave. Both girls were, but I put this on Kris. I think she caused this. Sorry.

@@unite4peace88 que ridiculo no se que quiere decir ni aparecieron los cuerpos completo y le cabe dudas que fue un asesinato??

Agreed. Imperfect Plan went there on a foggy rainy day and wrote abou6t passers by: "Approximately 5-7 locals passed our camp each day, usually around 2:00PM." Other people/bloggers/hikers also always run into someone and often more than one person. This April 1st hike of these girls was done on a beautiful day with clear skies, sun and after a dry spell, so the trail wasn't even muddy as usual. Guide Plinio said he passed them by on the trail, but then withdrew his statement. It seems out of the question that they wouldn't have passed anyone. And yet, nobody came forward to declare that they had seen Kris and Lisanne in passing on the trail... Unbelievable.

Thank you, very well said.

at the end, I understood "Madre"