The Greeks were always the businessmen and negotiators. This trait of theirs, their ability to “make a deal”, would be one of the huge reasons why the eastern Roman (Greek speaking) empire lasted 1000 years after Rome fell. The Greeks had more tact than the Romans.
@@obiologo The macedonians were not greeks. They were on the border three point of Illyria, Thracia/Peonia and Hellas, these people were a mix. The greeks, in the documents that have survived to us, made a difference between them and greeks.
True, but cleopatra wasn’t this bratty and flighty. This is actually one of the few scenes that I agree with when it comes to her in this series. This is scene very much cleopatra
Cut the fucking racial arguments out of it, and let the fucking facts come into play. Cleopatra came from the Ptolemaic bloodline. Before Megas Alexandros conquered Egypt, the Nubians and Ethiopians held political dynasties in Egypt of their own. But Cleopatra was not African black. It's not racism, it's fact. Case closed.
^ truth. I wish a black producer would make their own movie and films about black culture, like Spike Lee did with malcolm X. That was a masterpiece, and there should be more like it.
Wandrative the ancient Egyptians were not Caucasian. They were Hamitic. They were the sons of Ham. Hamitic and Semitic civilizations have mixed though.
And for some reason you are saying that 'Hamites' aren't Caucasian? There are three Caucasian phylogenic branches: Indoeuropean (aka outdated term Aryan/Japethic), Semitic, and Afroasiatic (aka outdated term Hamitic). The Egyptians are Caucasian in every way.
Her dress, her gait, her manner of speech ... all are laid with purpose and deliberation. And to those who call Cleopatra "a bitch"... show some respect to a monarch of a great kingdom like Egypt. People often forget that Egypt was the breadbasket of Rome and without Egypt, Rome could not sustain herself.
I don't see how what Cleo did to keep her throne, was any worse than anything Antony or Caesar did to keep power? So what that they were married men? Both men also had a reputation for sleeping around, which was acceptable and even encouraged in Roman men. Cleopatra had no husband she was cheating on; both men were her only known sexual partners, and she was loyal to both, and her union with both kept Egypt independent that much longer.
@Gregory Smith Agree with you about Claudius. He possibly used his cerebral palsy and stuttering to his advantage so his enemies underestimated him and probably survived longer as a result.
@Gregory Smith My favourite Roman emperor is Augustus as he was more consistent and intelligent than the ones that followed after him, excluding Claudius of course. He ruled for nearly 50 years, quite an accomplishment for a Roman leader. I think he's very underrated, especially his abilities as a political strategist. It's a curious twist of history that nowadays people tend to remember Caligula & Nero more for all their antics, insanity and ineptitude.
@Gregory Smith That's funny, the joke about Pannonia, considering what a vast area of land it was back then. Now it's about 8 different countries Austria, Hungary among them. Augustus only killed one of Mark Anthony's children. Marcus Antonius Antyllus was executed, perhaps due to personal quarrel... Who knows. Think Mark Anthony had 8 offspring in total. Augustus spared his three nephews and nieces that Anthony had with Octavia, Augustus's elder sister. He killed Caesarion (alleged son of Julius Caesar) because according to Roman protocol, he was a threat. It's a curious thing, after over 2000 years of Judeo-Christian monotheistic values, the rituals of Pagan Rome may appear barbaric and even sociopathic to us now. Yet they were Polytheists and followed very different ethics which many fail to comprehend due to monotheistic religious dogma. I've always found Pagan Rome to be far more fascinating and multi faceted than Christian Rome. I often wonder what ancient Romans would make of our modern culture and customs. What would Roman soldiers and generals make of some of our modern leaders, like Trump?! If he can even be called a leader that is. With his juvenile tantrums, lack of military strategy and experience on the battlefield he certainly wouldn't have earned the trust of seasoned Roman soldiers. Propaganda is a curious thing... In these surreal times we live in, the 1999 movie, The Matrix comes to mind. When Morpheus presents Nero with a choice : *"Will you choose the red pill or the blue pill?" The RED Pill is the path of Philosophy and Reasoning and Critical Thinking and Science and testing. The BLUE Pill is that of simple and uncritical belief and emotional decision making.* The question is even more more valid since the US 2020 elections! Except, post election - the colours are inverse..
Mark Antony is definitely my favourite character in Rome, he is so sexy, brave, funny and womanizer.. This scene is one of my favourite scenes especially when she slapped him and when he told her ''your son will eat shit and die before I make him legal'' James Purefoy should have an Emmy or this role but who appreciates this kind of actors , Emmys are so rediculous.
Michael deAntonio Then you must have a big family;) Actually so called the Julio-Claudian dynasty was formed by the descents of Livia, Octavia, and Antony. Antony had 8 legitimate children. The eldest Antonia Prima reigned in Cappadocia, her descents in Tracia, Armenia, Crimea, his and Cleopatra descents (3 children) reigned for years in what we call now Turkey and Caucassus. Antonia Minor -Younger was the mother of Emperor Claudius. Antonia Maior and minor became the grand and great mothers of Nero, Messalina, Caligulla. Although elder son called Antyllus was executed, the younger Jullus Antonius had many descents and spoiled a lot of Octavian’s blood having an affair with Octavian’s only daughter, Julia. Anyway, It seems that despite Octavian fuonded the Empire, it was ruled by Antony's descents. What an ironic twist of history;)
I love the foreshadowing of Antony's comments on his disdain for ships. Yet it was a naval battle which sealed his ultimate defeat. Or his comment on the strangeness of an Egyptian queen marrying a Roman consul when that same thing happened with him and Cleopatra.
One nice touch I just noticed: At 3:42, I like the way she turns away from him, but she moves her shoulders first while keeping her face in his direction. It's different from most people, I think, who turn their heads first first and then their shoulders, or their heads and shoulders simultaneously. The way she does it looks a little flirtatious (picture how it would look from Antony's point of view). She even moves in a little closer before leaving.
When Cleo met Anthony, who treated her as a whore, it was clear to her that she can turn him round little finger. When she met Octavian, who treated her very politely, she knew instantly that all was lost...
Meat Ball true she is of Greek descent but.....that blood line is over a thousand years old. You mean to tell me her family picked up no tan in a thousand years?
They resided in the north of Egypt as did many Greek citizens in the time. They were tanned in the way that Mediterranean races are, the temperature and climate of northern Egypt is not significantly different to Greece, however it may still be slighter hotter than the Macedonian region of Greece to the north.
Meat Ball All this skin colour argument isn't about evidence. Afrocentrists believe Cleopatra and all egyptians to be Sub-saharan african despite all the archeological evidence. They are *obsessed with their skin colour and troubled by their own lack of history.* You can show them all the evidence you want, they will still refuse it. Arguing with them is a waste of time.
In terms of appearance, I don't think I've ever seen a more faithful representation of what the real Cleopatra looked like than in this very scene. Young, caucasian, auburn hair, long nose, pretty but not conventionally beautiful. Granted, the information we have on her looks is scarce but what we do have seems to paint her in this image.
Agreed. I’ve noticed lately African Americans now trying to claim Cleopatra was black as they are. They’ve done the same with Nefertiti and anyone else in history they feel like claiming. But she wouldn’t have been black at all... more like Italian in appearance. With fair skin.
@@becsocsci621 there was a few Nubian or kush pharaohs in Ancient Egypt. I disagree with their revisions of history, but it is obvious that Macedonian Egypt was greek
@@becsocsci621 Greek, not Italian. And there is some evidence to suggest that Ancient Egyptians were undoubtedly darker skinned. However, they weren't black. Ancient Egyptian art makes a clear distinction in skin color between themselves and actual black peoples such as the Nubians, Kushites and people of Punt. I suspect Ancient Egyptians would have looked fairly similar to Egyptian people today, or similar to some modern day Somalis and many North Africans. Brown, not black.
@@becsocsci621 Egyptians up to and including Ramises III were almost certainly black. The period after around 1,700 BCE brought invasions from lighter skinned races to Egypt. Skin colour really wasn't a 'thing' to the Mediterranean races during this period. That obsession seems to be a very modern thing.
“Your son will eat shit and die before I make him legal” The delivery of that line… Jesus. Barely restrained lust drooling past gritted teeth. James Purefoy was born to play that character.
This classic HBO series Rome centered around two characters Lucius Vorenus and Titus Pullo, who were real-life historical soldiers in Caesar's army while in Gaul whose very names are in his writings. Throughout the series their misadventures involve them both unwittingly or inadvertently in the historical events that shaped Rome to ultimately to what it was destined to become an empire.
Going through withdrawal pains after watching this masterpiece of a series. Now that GoT is in its last year, I wish they would revive this series, such a long history to cover that deserves more respect than just 2 seasons. Bring back as much of the original cast as possible. They were pure magic together.
This is an absolutely brilliant scene: a confrontation between the most powerful woman in the world and the most powerful man. He, an over-sexed, guff Roman general and she a sophisticated Egyptian Queen from an ancient dynasty. I love Cleopatra's voice, soft and methodical, assured and firm. She's completely unflappable and retains her regal dignity throughout the intense encounter.
@@miram.s.3602 The point is that she came from an ancient kingdom and although her dynasty itself may not have been as long as others, she inherited all of the glory of royalty from her predecessors, just like the Tudors, Stuarts or present day Windsors who inherited a thousand years of tradition from their predecessors.
She was the last scion of the empire created by conquests of Alexander and his undefeated army. With her death Hellenic period is considered to be over, because it was the last "Greek" kingdom surviving. Ancient Greeks contribution to development of western civilization is obvious, so there is definetely something symbolic when their last kingdom finally ends up fully under Roman domination. At least that's how I liked to see it, though obviously things in real life are more blurred than what history books make it to be. It's not like Middle Ages magically began at 476 and everybody suddenly turned into feudal knights.
@@legrandboche712 I live by the old adage, "better late than never!" LOL. BTW, I was going to wait eleven years to answer you, but decided to answer sooner this time around!
@@jordana.6874 Love her, but for one she didn't really look like her, and I'm pretty sure Cleopatra didn't wore gold lame fabric. Not only that but despite the majority of hints towards her Hellenic heritage, her costumes in the movie are way too Egyptian(if that makes any sence ) .
I'm Black (biracial, actually) and even I'm offended by some of the things you are saying. Seriously...you give people of color an even worse reputation than what we already have. Enough is enough. And no, Cleopatra VII Thea Philopator was NOT Black, sub-Saharan descent. She was Greek of Macedonian descent. Her very name is Greek, literally translating to "Her Father's Greatest Blessing." She was a Ptolemy who were very xenophobic and did not believe in racial mixing.
Ptolemy Dynasty adapts the local tradition of marrying their offsprings to maintain the purity of the bloodline. So not so much xenophobia as against going out of the family. Cleopatra VII was technically married to her younger brothers (2 of them) while being a concubine to Caesar and Antony.
+Onyx Fire Not accepting someone because they are mixed? Sounds racist. There is no such thing as a pure anything anymore so we are all “mutts” including you.
Sadly, this type of discussion nearly always devolve into a "white vs Black" flame fest. No such thing as "races" and never were which makes all of us shades of brown.
Fabian Hale How is that racist, moron? For one, he stated himself he was biracial. Last time I checked, biracial is an admixture of both races. Not just one.
I love the design of this programme. Cleopatra's outfit for example - the Egyptian dress with the Roman/Greek hairstyle. Nice to see that they tried to make it authentic. :)
She was a descendant of one of Alexander the greats generals. She was from the Greek elite that ruled Egypt. She was very much European in her looks but she used her image differently in different cultures. When she was in Rome she would dress like a Roman to appeal to the Romans. When in Egypt she would dress like the goddess's people expected her to be..
Lol those questions Marc Antony is asking Cleopatra at the beginning...seems like he is trying to verify all the assumptions he has about her tastes when it comes to sex. And when he uses that paper to get some air at 1:22, he finds her smoking hot.
The circling around each other here is so well acted. I didn't realise that Cleopatra was played by the same actress who played the duplicious Lucy in Being Human.
Something I have noticed..... Anytime actors play Anthony and Cleopatra, the same ones actually get romantically involved with each other in real life 🤔
Interesting. Here in the comments some people argued about somebody complaining about her not being black whose original nonsense I'm unfortunately unable to find. That was TEN YEARS AGO!!! I had no idea we had this constructed culture war for so long now! What must've been a freak, rare fight under some random video have become the overwhelming, dominating discussion point in all of media, art and politics. I wonder if the subject is now finally on its way into oblivion after all this time. One may only hope.
Antony looks like a little child intellectually compared to Cleo, one of my favorite scenes. "Eat shit and die"? Really Anthony is that the best you could come up with? lol
2:48. "Promise me one, long, deep, soft, kiss forever" perfect line. I like to think here they are actually referencing Shakespeare more than the real history.
Actually the first lawyers were Roman patricians. In the times of the monarchy they were the only ones that had political influence, could be heard in a court and could know the law (up until the very early republic the law was very secretive and exclusive). So when a plebeian needed to complain or resolve some issue with the intervention of the law he needed the patronage of a patrician and he would be considered to be his "client" (That's when the term was coined). All of these things changed in the Republican era when the plebeians gained a lot of power and recognition by the law and could, in fact, represent other roman citizens in the courts as lawyers. Then the distinction between patricians and plebeians disappeared from the law. So no, the first lawyers were hardly slaves. They were the upper class/cast in Roman society.
Robert Sanford The Romans relied on the Greek slaves when it came to things like this, as well as education. The Romans were more military minded, unlike the philosophical Greeks.
@@johnarbuckle2619 Those weren't the 'first lawyers'. The Persians had already formulated the lawyer to agent of law system centuries prior to the patricians in Rome.
@@saeedvazirian The persians were not the first either, the Sumarians were and they have the first written language and legal documents discovered predating the persians by over a thousand years
