You guys make this stuff fun. I'm an atheist so I don't plan on going to church very often but if churches could figure out how to make it fun they would be growing rather than shrinking.
For those who are curious, McClellan derives from the Scottish Gaelic "MacGillIathain", which comes from "mac" son of, "gille" boy, "iathain" of John, so it means "Son of John's Boy" or "John's Son's Son" or just "Johnson" in English
Seriously though, I got into an argument with someone a while back where they didn't seem to understand what a cognate was nor why calling him 'Jesus' or not doesn't matter for anything. It was one of the most bizarre conversations I've ever had. And I spend my time online talking mostly about religion and politics. That's how unusual it was. That aside, I don't think the apostles existed for the most part. They're all presented as stock characters. I think there was a Peter and a James, the ones Paul writes about, but I don't think the gospel writers knew anything about them except for what was in Paul's letters. So all of the apostles became literary characters whether they were real or not and we can only reasonably argue for two of them. The multiple Thomases, Marys etc. seems like it was a result of christian groups combining their traditions, which goes a long way towards explaining why it's so confusing. A Mary became multiple Marys and as the gospels developed their roles and the stories about them were adapted and so they changed both from group to group and across time from book to book.
I love walking my students through translation and transliterations of biblical names. They usually can’t get enough of it because it’s just so crazy. James and Jesus are also the two I usually do to explain this concept.
@@Ken_Scaletta Yeah, it's pretty odd. But, it's all about figuring out how people used to say that "b" sound in Late Latin. It's really weird for our modern English ears, but "b"s and "m"s just sort of go together in a lot of Latin words and in most English versions of those words we have gotten rid of the "b" sound, tomb (tomba), bomb (bombus), plumb (plumba). I'm sure there are a bunch of others that I can't think of right now. Another one of these fun pronunciations that makes a ton of sense once you hear it is the etymology of Zeus. In various Ancient Greek dialects the zeta (Z) sound was more of a "dz" sound. And you can see this in old forms of Zeus, like the Boeotian form, which is spelled with a delta (D) instead of a zeta. This is where the terms Dios, Deus, and other forms of the word "God" come from. My favorite Yakov derivations that Dan didn't mention: Seamus, Hamish, Coby, Sandy (male name), and the noun "yokel." That's just so good. I love language!
@@JonathanMartin884 I studied Classical languages in college and tutored Koine but love Latin. I only wish my school had offered Hebrew but they didn't.
@@Ken_Scaletta Ah! Very cool! I have an MA in Ancient History, and I now teach history and humanities to first and second year undergrads, mostly. I always tell my students that they are lucky I don't make them read texts in the original languages. lol But they really enjoy some of these etymological jaunts through history.
I think "the Twelve" is a later theological construction, not historical, which is why there is no consistent list of names and why we get doubling and tripling of certain names.
Exactly. I find it extremely unlikely that a cult leader would require exactly 12 followers to symbolize the 12 tribes of Israel and that these same followers also proclaimed to have visions of him after his death. It seems a lot more likely that the number of followers was fluid both before and after Jesus' death, and the number 12 was just symbolic
it's like the nine realms in norse mythology the realms are never named and theres no consensus on which ones form the nine, but nine was a number with cultural significance
Another possibility for the use of the name Peter instead of Simon is the use in ritual of a magical name. The gospels in the book of Acts constantly talk about all these magical miracles happening so it's not that surprising that they'd be doing magical stuff.
Serious-ish comment: maybe the original 12 included some women, but when the gospels were being written, the big 12 had to be all men. But the gospel writers forgot to send out a memo with the approved substitutes.
@@liquidityoforange440 well I wrote the song and had a lot of fun doing it. I did email data over dogma to let them know but got no reply, so I moved on. However since you ask, give me a few days and I'll slap some images on the song and upload it to RU-vid.
I been to Lollapalooza twice and now, aposlepalooza! All great but only one answered my questions. ❤ Also since I am Danielle, I call the zealot nickname! And yes Dr. Dan, false cognates are real....
Let's see Simon (Peter)?, Andrew,, John, Thomas, Matthew, James, another Simon (Judas), Grumpy, Happy, Sleepy, Doc, Sneezy & Dopey! How'd I do??? In my job I was a . . . Tax Collector. Don't hate me. Jesus' real name was, of course, Frank. (Francis to his Mum).
I have heard from a classical philologist who specializes in medical and mystery religion texts from the ancient to late classical era that the name Mary was used as a title for any myrrh bearing woman, roughly equivalent to cult pharmacists.
There were four Steven's in my grade including me and all the other one's were just called by their last name, I was my full name for some reason. I suspect it was just I was in trouble more often, but I never really figured it out.
20:13 in Portuguese sometimes the greek philippos is Felipe or Filipe, Felipe is way more common, mine is Filipe and not a single soul get it right in the first try lmao😂
As an anarchist, I disagree entirely with the notion that only those with credentials have anything valid to say about topics like etymology. Anyone with sufficient motivation can obtain all the same knowledge as someone with a credential. The ivory tower has enough obvious flaws and academic fraud scandals to justify the same level of skepticism.
The claim that Tomas was a twin comes from the acts of Tomas. Interesting read if you want to be completely freaked out. The word Dumas means twin, and his real name was Yudas (Yehudas) Dumas. He was one of a least two discipkes named "Judas". There is a assyrian name from which Joshua is derived though I lost its source. Joshua was a person who was probably invented by the deuteronomist in order to connect the 'history' with the myths about moses, and some vague historical figures name (akkadian) was slighly althered to make it a theophoric for Yahu. I use Yeshu_ when speaking about attempts to reconstruct the historic Jesus. I use Jesus either when refering to the mystical Jesus of later mystics like Paul. Jesus Christ I also use it to describe a Jesus from any of the text which cannot be attested. For example the Jesus in John who turns water into wine is essentially a knock-off of Dionysus (Yes I know that Dionysus was not at a wedding turning water into wine). But the point of that story was to inform greeks that Jesus could do what their mystery cult god could do, and better. Ihsous (h is that freaky n that is used in greek that is a vareint e as opposed to epsilon) is the greek stand alone name. When the named is titled its Ihsou Xristos. The "s" ending is a convention. Thus we can be pretty certain that the Aramaic is Yeshu. In the Q text I might use Jesus or Yeshu, so for example the "sword of the tongue" speech toward the end of the gospel. Did Yeshu_ actually say this? James. Im sorry Dan, but the etmology of James from Yacov is so fucked up its nonsense, particularly sense Jacob is used in the english bible. Its unintelligible. More or less James is used for vanity reasons to gain the support of an English king. When speaking of Yeshu_'s brother who is a historic figure I am going to use Yacov the Pious for the following reason. 1. We have historical attribution (Josephus). Paul identifies him and the two are consistent. 2. Righteous and Just are value judgements about behavior in particular religions, whereas when we speak of non judeochristian religions we use the word pious to describe this.
Richard Carrier explained the Apostle business. Before and during the time of Paul, anyone who had a vision of Jesus was an Apostle. During the time of historicization, they turned into 12 men who were with the historical figure of Jesus. Before the historical interpretation, anyone who had a vision of Christ was an Apostle.
I think that the use of names from mythology as mystery cult titles is worth exploring in regards to the name of Jesus. Ιήσους is equivalent to Ιάσιος iirc, a healer hero from ancient Greek mythology; the isopheny value of 888, the association of the number 8 with the aion, the constant references throughout the gospels to the aion, and the utilization of the eight-spoke wheel cryptogram by early Christians strongly attest to the cult significance of the Greek name Ιήσους throughout early Christianity. It is likely imo that nobody called Jesus by the Aramaic name we associate with the Greek name, but rather that he fulfilled the mystery role so thoroughly that his real name was forgotten and replaced with his cult titles. Recall that according to the Gospel of Matthew that Zoroastrian mystagogues paid his parents to apply the frankincense and myrrh from his infancy -- he was likely trained for the role of performing the mystery operation.
9 месяцев назад
Thomas as the twin of Jesus appears among other places in the Acts of Thomas, where Jesus sells him as a slave to get him to India. I think Ehrman discusses this and other Thomas-as-Jesus's-twin traditions in Lost Christianities.
46:45, cynically, I can see some people wanting to lessen Junia's apostleship by saying that "as a couple, they were apostles, but really she's an apostles wife". Personally I love any evidence of early Christian egalitarianism.
Yeah these terms are often conflated but don't mean the same thing. Paul was an apostle. Peter was (apparently) both. Beyond that things are really fuzzy. I'm also surprised that Dan didn't make this correction earlier in the video, though he kind of makes the distinction near the end
Seems that there are two issues: 1. What do the texts call him? Iessous. So translations of the text should use that or a transliteration, e.g. Jesus. And 2: What would people have called him at the time, since he would have grown up speaking Aramaic, according to the his birthplace and culture in the text? So altho the text calls him by one name, we are justified in inferring that people called him Yeshu or something very close to that, assuming that was his name at the time as -a poisoned- opposed to a nickname given later. So either could be valid, depending on the context.
