No breakthrough in printing technology, but a nice demonstration of how to perforate paper in a hacker's way. All info and build instruction on my pages: homofaciens.de/technics-machines-plasma-printer_en.htm FAQ: Why sharp tungsten electrodes won't help improving the print quality: The print dot is "punched" in a fraction of a second while the plasma is forming. That is ruled by the jungle of paper fibers and Air molecules that offers various paths from one electrode to the other. Plasma "printing" is different from plasma welding or cutting, where the burning of plasma for seconds or even minutes matters, not the formation of the plasma with the pilot arc. Why you can't guide or focus the arc with magnets: For the same reasons as above - you might be able to rule a flowing current (=burning plasma) with magnetic fields, but nor the forming of the pilot arc. Yes bringing the electrodes closer improves print quality, but you cant set the dots too close to each other for two reasons: 1. the plasma arc will rather go through a nearby hole than forming a new one when the gap between two dots it too small 2. Too many holes will weaken and so vaporize the paper rather than printing on it
Thanks! I am currently working to make my London Taxi road legal here in Germany. When I purchased the cab, back in 2019 the idea was to bring it to maker fairs this year... ...hope to be on the road next year.
This is absolutely awesome, thank you so much for doing an English version of the video! I'm definitely going to build one and see how long the plasma can be sustained for cutting through thicker things... or maybe putting foil on the top of something non-conductive, to just leave a burn mark on the top...? Anyway, thank you for inspiring me (and others, I'm sure)!
I gotta commend you on posting both in English and in German, I probably wouldn't have found your channel otherwise. I hate watching through Americans doing projects and then I can't get the supplies through European suppliers. I guess tech is fairly easy to get ahold of online anyways but still, really appreciated. Also I really appreciate you teaching tech and spreading love for open source projects.
Way back in the 80's there was a cheap printer for the ZX spectrum - google "ZX Printer" you are so very close ..... brilliant project yet again - cheers.
Interesting concept! I would plan the movements such that you define a minimum distance between successive points for the first pass, then come back for another pass and so on. That would mean faster printing while closer points and less burning ..... Other interesting materials would be foam....
Thanks! The problem is that the plasma spark will rather go through a neighboring hole (print dot) than through a solid paper layer when you try to set them too close to each other.
Rewelacyjny projekt. Może warto byłoby użyć ostre elektrody jak do spawania TIG-iem, i poeksperymentować z różnymi rodzajami papierów. Nie mniej jednak - rewelacja :)
The Heidelberg GTO-DI offset printing press images the printing plates in a similar method. The new printing plates are metal and coated with a non conductive and ink resistive layer. The spark device has both contacts on the same side of the plate and the plates are imaged on the press removing the coating and exposing the ink receptive layer below, because of this the machine is always in perfect registration. After imaging the plates are wiped clean of any burned material. These machines were made for a few years prior to 1995.
that's pretty interesting. Im curious if a couple needle points would direct the arc better like sharp tungsten works on tig welders? maybe even very close together. The paper sure catches fire quickly.... could damp paper slow down the burning? maybe you invented the first printer that prints on wet paper
I'm almost 100% positive that a shorter spark gap would increase the precision of the spark, and sharpened high (temperature) tungsten electrodes wouldn't hurt either (a bit "exotic" though unless he happens to have some laying around)
I never said that a shorter gap and a more pointy electrode would have no effect in print quality improvement, but it's not that big thing. In contrast to plasma cutting where the flow of plasma has to be controlled, in plasma printing all the magic happens in the fraction of a second where the spark penetrates the paper and that's what is ruled by the random distribution of paper fibers or air molecules. Plasma cutters have to control the plasma flow, which is done mainly by the shape of the electrodes and the pressurized air.
You may get a more controlled arc using sharper electrodes. That's how TIG welding works. You sharpen the tungsten electrode to get a more defined arc. Shortening the arc should help with waver too.
You can increase your resolution by using sewing needles for both electrodes. You will also need to move the electrodes closer to each other thereby decreasing the amount initial current needed to make the arc and hence decreasing the amount of initial heat. Since this will need to be done, you will need to create two parallel feed rails for the paper. This will stabilize the paper from flexing up and down during the feeding process into the printer during prints. Nice little project but can be considered a fire hazard LOL. Thumbs up
Thinking about the accuracy. If you could put the electrodes inside small glass tubes then the open tubes ends could slide around the paper and restrict the arc and may also restrict available oxygen.
Not fast or the most efficient way to print, but for dark areas could it print one dot at the start of the line, then skip right to the end and print a dot, the skip back to the start and print a dot, etc. This should keep the paper cool enough to space the dots close together without burning big holes. Or maybe like old dot matrix printers where the print head would go over each line more then once, maybe have it space out the dots very far on the first pass, then fill in the gaps on the next pass, etc.
Thanks Doug! First time one of my machines is called "sexy" ;-)) Colors are ruled by what filament I have in stock without any design considerations. Even while working with an artist on this project, I am still just the technician behind ;-)
Really a nice project, you could try lowering the voltage to the point that it makes slight burn and no hole( or try thicker paper) , also i think you should try using needles for the spark they may produce better uniform sparks...😅
There is no "point of just burn before making a hole". The paper needs to get perforated to get a plasma arc. No breakdown voltage, no plasma, no black dot.
You should try tungsten wire for the tips, with that extremely fine needles can be created by pulling the tungsten apart (it is used that way in electron microscopy)
That would not be a big improvement, as answered multiple times in the comment section, but the pulling the wires apart to get a pointy tip is a neat trick!
Nifty design! I wonder if you would find a regular DC motor with the locating wheel/tape like a regular printer uses to be an advantage with something like this. Also, I would be interested in modifying the electrodes to be made of non-corroding sharp and thin needles.
Thanks! Its more the price tag than precision why those DC motors are used in common printers. Also mentioned in multiple other comments: Shape and electrode material are a minor issue for the random path the plasma takes. It's the irregular fibers of the paper that mainly causes this.
Nice, a FAX machine from the 2020's. You possibly could get a better resolution when using a sharp tig tungsten electrode. I like to see that in the next experiment.
I often told in the comments why the sharpness and material of the electrodes doesn't really matter. If you make a copy of that machine, I will send you a fax with a detailed answer ;-)
@@HomoFaciens Well, it really does matter. However my statement was wrong. Sharper electrodes in fact have a wider angle than blunt electrodes. From what I can read from different literature ideally the point should be around 120 deg. I really think this could work with more precise electrodes but also, since most high voltage stuff is based on charging capacitors, the timing of the spark should be more predictable or we should measure the spark to know when it has fired so we can move on to the next pixel. Still interesting though.
Great project. Yet another one that takes me right back to the eighties. I had a printer that plugged into my programmable calculator. It used aluminiumised paper to print on. It might be worthwhile changing the electrode with sewing needles or something similar on your plasma printer. Does the distance between the electrodes have any effect on the final print?
I guess it was a ZX printer mentioned in an earlier comment. The smaller the gap, the smaller the error from the desired X/Y coordinates on the paper. However, if both electrodes touch the surface, the paper feed gets stuck on the electrodes (would need to embed the electrodes in something like glass to avoid that).
You could try to put some kind of shield on the "print head" to reduce the amount of oxygen that can reach the paper. It would reduce the chance of it burst into flames. A simple hose with CO2 produced by reacting NaHCO3 with vinegar should work. The paper would carbonise by the heat but not catch fire.
Still there is the problem with the random path the plasma takes between the electrodes which reduces the resolution you can get. Maybe a mini plasma cutter (plasma torch) that burns the paper only on top would make things better. Blowing that kind of plasma arc on the paper surface with CO2 could be a thing. I'll keep that in mind - thanks!
@@HomoFaciens I agree. The only way I can think of for guide the arc is to confine it with narrow glass tubes. This way you can reduce the dispersion. But I don't know how much time you intend to spend on this printer. Normally, quality and simplicity go in opposite directions.
Yes, I had similar thoughts of placing both electrodes on one side of the paper and force the spark along the surface through a glass barrier. I will probably do some experimentation into that direction after making my filament extruder work (my current project)
Hello, I would like to attempt this project, could you give me more information? Especially on where you connected the large capacitor, suppression choke and resistor
Capacitors as close as possible to the motor supply voltage pins of the stepper controllers, the choke is in the wires of the 12V supply of the board and one end of the resistor is one electrode as can be seen in the video.
The print dots are formed by the initial "punch" of the arc that is forming in a fraction of a second. The plasma flow comes after that, so directing the plasma with a magnet comes too late to have an impact on the precision.
A Reddit user /u/Hutkikz suggested: "To get much better control of the arc. Any welder will tell you to use a tungsten welding electrode(cheap) sharpened to a point with the scratches from sharpening going parallel to the length of the electrode."
...and I told multiple times: "This printer sets the dots in a fraction of a second while the arc is formed, punching the paper, while welding means keeping the plasma burning for seconds/minutes. Even with the perfectly sharpened tungsten electrodes, that first pilot arc strikes randomly and the shape of the electrodes matters after that first strike. Plasma "printing" is totally different from plasma welding or plasma cutting."
awesome, file points on electrodes or maybe use tiny tubes filled to a point as electrodes and blow gas through them, i believe air can work but oxygen or hydrogen also work, a simple aquarium pump would be ample for this apllication.
As written in the FAQ section (top post), the arc forms in a fraction of a second, which makes this machine totally different from a plasma welder or cutter. Blowing air or oxygen on the surface will burn the whole printer ;-)
@@HomoFaciens well put, I guess I didn't think it through. does the spark/high voltage rf cause issues with the control signals of the driver boards or the output of the driver boards and the motor turnings, thank you for the enlightenment
I haven't used an oscilloscope to check that out. I guess it's the internal logic of the driver boards that gets confused by the non constant logic input voltage.
Haven't tried, yet but the problems would be the same. More uniform materials like plastics film could give better precision, but still nothing great, I guess.
@@HomoFaciens Yeah I was mainly thinking of keeping the burn to a minimum. I can imagine the charred parts are carbon and would only conduct more and better.
And for better resolution use Needle positive electrode on top side for better resolution . Positive because negative electrodes melts relative to positive And try to use fixed metallic base electrode instead of moving. May be it will improve result
As told a couple of times: A higher resolution won't work, because if the dots are too close to each other, the arc will rather go trough an existing, near by hole than punching a new one. Furthermore, any dot weakens the material, so you will vaporize the paper rather than creating a print.
@@HomoFaciens actually this is not good for paper but May be it can do something better like cutting , melting metallic powder for 3d printing layer by layer .
It would carbonize and so still create black dots, but yes, the paper won't catch fire. But there is another issue: When there is a hole (dot) in a distance of about 1mm, the plasma will take that path instead of punching another hole at the intended position.
@@HomoFaciens Damn. It would be awesome to have a printer-system that never runs out of ink like this and only requires electricity. Please keep developing it! I want one so bad!
Arrange both electrodes on the top side of the paper and turn the system into a tiny plasma torch might be a working solution around that. There are still options to improve the design. Stay tuned!
maybe you need a pilot arc to get better results....but this would just burn the paper..maybe you should work on the paper also. Just search for plasma pilot arc.
Pilot arc only makes sense for plasma a torch that would have both electrodes on one side of the paper. I am indeed thinking of doing something like that. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
I'm thinking how about the spray paint method? You cover the copper with spray paint and try to burn the paint with respect to the pcb design. Is it possible?
Considering that it is the short pule of forming an arc rather than a long burning plasma, you are right. I don't care about what it is named since I won't run into mass production ;-)
Anything with a possibility of creating a fire hazzard will never get approval. I like your thinking but not much needs to go wrong for a child to put a finger too close to the arc and it would cause health risks to anyone with a weak heart. I wonder if using a hot tip could carbonise the paper or other media to draw similar to a soldering iron on wood? Another thing to watch is any smoke or other particulars causing lung damage or even triggering smoke detectors, maybe add an exhaust that filters the air but that increased airflow could also feed potential fires.
@@HomoFaciens it will burn paper less making hole, or even you should try to cut with keeping less gap between 2 holes on little moist paper, just my thought 🤪
The problem is that if you try to "punch" another hole too close to an existing one, the plasma arc will rather go through the existing, near by hole instead of creating a new one.
@@HomoFaciens can you try bringing electrodes very close ? And you can try blocking those holes with some 3d printed material so that it will not go through the same hole. You can place to flats surfaces on either sides of the electrodes parallel to paper surface, and mounting those 3d printed surfaces to the same moving electrode's 3d printed part 😀 Did you understood? Please try, this may work. If you didn't understood I'm ready to explain more
i swear i built a cnc shittier than yours (the one with dc motor as stepper) with roller bearings and wooden mounts for the nema 17 and the threaded rod bearings. i found some random metal tubes in the trash dump and they were straigth enough to make linear rails, hahaha.
Skills can only grow by making a machine, no matter how horrible the first iteration will be. ...I can live with being responsible for your first try. ;-)
