Are 4 and 5 Cost Allies Worth It? | Chaps Chatting Champs | w/ 

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I'm a huge fan of the high-cost allies, partially because I like having a thematic team of heroes on the board, but also because I love playing a controlling game that doesn't use a lot of chump-blocking (chump-blocking is one of my least favorite things to do with an ally). There's also just something about having those big-name, high-powered allies on the board that I find wonderfully fun! One of the heroes you didn't mention, but that I have found is quite capable of building a board of high cost allies, is Scarlet Witch. Because she has access to Spiritual Meditation and because of her Alter Ego ability, she's able to quickly dig for double resources to play her high value cards (or to dig for high-cost allies when you have a hand of resources). In addition, her Chaos Magic gives you a "free" expensive card every deck-pass. I've played her on numerous occasions with Captain America, Giant-Man, Captain Marvel, and Black Panther as my go-to high-cost allies in leadership (I've mostly played her in an "all Avengers" sort of deck, with Avengers Tower, Avengers Mansion, Team Training and Mighty Avengers).

Nice! Great topic to bring attention to. I actually love 4+ cost allies, but they generally fall into one of three categories for me: exceptional, atrocious, or something you need to build your deck around. The latter two categories exclude a huge portion of them from most of the decks I make and play. There are a couple of borderline cards that could go either way, but they are few. A few cards that I love and that weren't mentioned are: Justice Spider-Man Peter Parker (who I think is criminally underrated and should arguably be in every 4-player deck ever), Goliath, Multiple Man, Iron Fist, Dazzler, Justice Venom(who provides just so much damage in solo Justice where you can keep the threat down easily), and Wolverine. Cards that I think are so badly valued they are not worth using outside of novelty decks/purely for the variety of using them: Lady Spider, Bombshell, Hercules, Havok, Vision, Charlie-27, Protector, Basic Venom, and more. There are niche cases for a couple of them, but they are veeery niche.. Then the niche ones you want to build around. Things like Yondu and Iron Man as mentioned, but also Scarlet Spider who you generally only want to play through Across the Spider-Verse, She-Hulk that you want to build up, and so on. And then you've got a few borderline ones like War Machine, Luke Cage, Martyr, and Jack Flag who are generally good value on paper but slow to pay off. I know me and Brandt have discussed Sentry before, and that was possibly the discussion mentioned, but Sentry generally doesn't make the cut for me. I've used him a good few times and he scores high in the fun factor, but he is a big risk. If one encounter card isn't a big deal, then you're already comfortably winning. If you're not already winning, if you're behind, it's a very bad deal to pay five effective resources AND get an extra encounter card. If that encounter card is a mild one, you've lucked out and won. But if it's Advance, a side scheme, an Expert card, a 6+ hp minion, etc etc~ It's just a huge gamble. There are a lot of bad outcomes. Now Sentry does a lot when in play, and if you get something small like a 3 hp minion, a minion attachment, the villain gets Tough card, or you take 2 damage? That's absolutely fine. But the other side of the coin is that you do lose the game from him. It's not always directly traceable, but if you spent those FIVE resources elsewhere (a whole hero hand) and had one less encounter card to put on something else, a lot of games could look very, very different. One of his biggest pros is that he fixes Aggression's supply and demand problem with threat removal, but he comes with huge risks that really do matter. From Nick to Professor X, to Psylocke to Spider-Man Miles Morales, there are a lot of cheaper options that can remove/prevent threat nowadays and we have more coming with Deadpool. In simpler terms, if we say the average encounter card takes 3 resources to deal with, such as Star-Lord's hero ability suggests, then Sentry could be argued to have an effective cost of 8. tl;dr: Sentry's value changes depending on the average difficulty of the encounter cards in your scenario, but is generally too risky to be worth using compared to better options. But is pretty okay with Star-Lord who can combo events and his helmet off the encounter card, boost his stats with Leader or Energy Spear, and cheat him in for cheap. This turned into a bit of an essay so I'll just end by saying that one of the big issues with 4+ cost cards in general, allies or anything, is that they do cost most of your hand for most heroes. Captain Marvel, Peter Parker, Star-Lord, Black Panther~ These are big exceptions with a much higher than average economy. For most heroes, in most decks, they are a massive investment. And in Marvel Champions, the game asks you to deal with multiple things per turn. If you are just putting one ally out, and then attacking or thwarting, you have spent your whole turn just doing that one little bit of damage or thwarting. And sure, a big card will usually pay off in the long term, but what if you lose while only halfway through their hp? Or what if, by playing She-Hulk, you ignored the 2-4 minions out at your table in 4-player? Or leave that side scheme out one more turn? And so on. A lot of encounter cards put little fires on the table that burn away at you every turn, and the slower you play, the more they burn you. It's the Symbiote Suit problem. Great benefits, feels amazing, but super risky and has to be played at the right time if at all. In general, I would say 4+ cost cards are generally equal in value to 0-3 cost cards (per resource spent) but often much slower tempo and less versatile. That is why most of the popular 4+ cost allies refund part of their cost, do multiple things, or punch above what their cost suggests. But they are fun and worth trying! (Just not Protector, please.) And I think that fun counts for a lot. P.S. Apparently I'm not done~ Voltron decks are super fun and I highly recommend them, loved Brandt talking about them here. Some of the best voltron decks nowadays (in my opinion) are X-Men related decks where you use X-Mansion and Game Time to maintain and get stupid value from a variety of different X-Men. Try the Wolverine ally in Cyclops, Adam Warlock, Spider-Woman or Star-Lord. Or slap Honorary X-Men on one of the classics - like Phoenix with Yondu and Psychic Kicker. If you can set that up, you're laughing! These go well in multiplayer where you plan your decks together - one person goes for more immediate value to cover the early game, one player then starts to set up a monster of an upgraded ally, and that ally can often completely carry the late game while the hero continues to do awesome stuff too! And on a very final note, there are fun ways to cheat in more expensive allies. Quinjet, Summoning Spell, Sneak Attack, and The Bifrost are all fun ways to use them! These decks can feel very unique and refreshing too since they're not conventional archetypes. They are limited by character or, in the case of Sneak Attack, not a popular archetype. ...Really fun episode! Looks like it got me invested! :D

Psylocke and Wolverine are my current favorites so far. They're both high impact the turn you play them and the benefit lasts over multiple turns. I used to like Sentry quite a bit but either of these two have just replaced that spot most of the time. Also I'm a big fan of Meditation for dropping them into the table early. Turn 1 Meditation +1 to drop Wolverine then Attack Training on him basically mows down the majority of minions that the encounter can throw at you and you can pretty much keep him alive for the rest of the game!

That’s sneeze edit was so clean, I thought he just glitched 😂

Great topic. I always would shy away high cost Allie’s when I play two handed, until recently. Iron Man ally, War Machine. I was playing Iron Man and Hawk-Eye two handed and the board got over run by about 5 minions and decided to put War Machine as I had 2 doodle resource cards and used his ability. He knocked off two tough status, took a minion out and damaged everyone else. Ended up being a turning point in the game. Another ally I would mention is Dum Dum Dugan. I would not generally play him, but my son used him along with field agents when we played and he exceeded my expectations. On the other end of the spectrum, low cost ally Kate Bishop. I generally do not go out of my way to get her, but the last time I played her, hooked a sky cycle to her, had more double resources and nothing to spend them on, she did 4 damage in one turn. Kept her out and she probably did over eight damage. Thanks again for the interesting videos.

Good Topic! I used to enjoy playing Luke Cage, keeping him alive indefinitely with healing teams. Of course there was nothing else back then. Then Iron Fist made Luke a bit redundant - he & Psylocke(?) are premium 4 cost allies I did not hear you mention. Giantman & Goliath can also be great though I have mostly played them with Cap M who can pay for everything more easily. I do like Sentry too and Duggan who for some reason has even bigger stats than the proper heroes. I did have to take him out of my Hawkeye SHIELD deck as he was too expensive while Cap M SHIELD played him trivially of course. I've done a chaotic "Voltron" deck like Brandt's with Adam Warlock and a random bunch of Guardian allies. You build up whoever you get hoping for one thwarter and one attacker. Mostly 3 cost allies but it featured Martyr who gives you quite a fun mini game of blocking and attacking. They are probably not really strong enough for hardcore play but it's still entertaining. I did piling on upgrades with Ironman & Ronin in Peter Parker with enough gear to build all three of them (Blackcat is no3) into monsters. It's really fun having the hero support the allies although I do like allies that do more than just chump, or draw cards, in general.

3:20 Winning Hand podcast

These are great! Thanks guys!

Interesting conversation. Going in I would have anecdotally thought I didn’t play the 4-5 cost a lot, but looking at the full ally list I actually do. It’s actually easier for me to pick the ones I DON’T tend to play: -War Machine -Thor -She Hulk -Bombshell -Havok -Falcon -Nova -Protector I feel confident most of these are playable if you build around but would perhaps be very niche. The rest of the 4 or 5 cost I either occasionally use, or use very frequently. But I also tend to play a build out strategy, taking my time, and that’s where the more expensive allies tend to shine. I suppose for rush strategies often high cost allies may not be worth the cost with a couple exceptions (Captain Marvel and Goliath come to mind). Side note - my favorite 4 cost ally is Ven#m; yes I know she’s a signature, but getting 5/5 stats is fun.

Iron Fist is pretty good in certain builds. He doesn’t work as well in a perfect defense build though, where you want to be defending.

Jack Flag. Worth it.

Great chat! I have trouble with expensive allies because I do tend to use ally abilities and then chump block. I tend to focus on playing events so allies compete with that. Maybe heroes relying on good stat lines have an easier time paying for expensive allies? Venom seems like a great fit since his cards are already great. He can augment his allies instead of his own cards.

Where do I find the winning move podcast that was mentioned? Couldn’t find it on Apple podcast.

Great video Josh. I have had a few months break from Marvel Champions as 10th ED Warhammer 40,000 came out and Games Workshop is my first love, but I'm back now (playing 40k and Champions alternatively) as my copy of NeXt Evolution is due in my house in the nest day or two. I personally do include 4 and 5 cost allies in my decks as I don't mind the cost as they are worth it. I always include 2 Power of for the aspect to help pay for them and like most players I include one each of the double resources in the hope of paying for these expensive allies more efficiently but in not I don't worry. If I want to play the expensive ally I will.

good stuff... and you will be happy to know that I won't disagree with most everything you guys talk about... so I won't need to explain why your wrong this time... good work..