Omg I love this! Someone expresses their doubts, and Nick breaks out the microscope and the digital caliper to find the truth. Someone has clearly underestimated your level of geekage, my friend. Now all we have to do is take samples to a lab and test the coatings to verify that it's actually Teflon, Platinum, etc. ;-P Seriously though, great video as usual Nick. Your commitment and enthusiasm for the hobby, and just scientific geekiness in general, make all of this more fun for the rest of us.
Evan R Nick's doing his residency, so I assume he probably has some sort of science undergrad before med school. Never make claims you can't back up that a scientist can test because he or she will. :)
Dulse & Roe A physician is no scientist! I know that since I had to supervise medical students in their study internship (Chemistry) during my own PhD. Hahaha, lol, sorry... ;-D
Don Dan So a couple of issues here... 1. Since you have so clearly decided that Nick's testing has no scientific merits, can you offer some actual data? Seems to me as a "scientist" you expect us all to simply take your word for your statement. Where is your scientific evidence? 2. With a PhD in Chemistry, can you comment on if the coatings are different between the platinum and teflon models? So, in conclusion, you have offered no science to support your hypothesis that all these blades are the same. At this point your statements are conjecture at best. Expecting your background to be your supporting evidence is a weak argument.
I gotta give you credit buddy. Most guys would have just shrugged off a comment like the supposed Russian guy sent you. I mean it sounds legit. Yet you said OK lets see what the deal is and went the extra mile microscopically! Great work, you have a viewer for life. You're the real deal.
the guy who made the comment probably went no further than the stamping machine that punches out the blades. the sharpening and treatment process of each blade is different. you can tell blade 1 the voskhod was finely sharpened with what appeared to be a scandi or maybe a hollow grind edge (if a hollow grind is possible on an edge that small). the second blade, the lux had what appeared to be a European style edge, and the Swedish supersteel had a huge secondary bevel and had what appeared to be a convex edge. if I'm right on what I saw on those quick glances then the voskhod would offer a smoother cut but not last as long as the others. the lux, having it's grind would offer good performance and quick cutting. the super steel would here cut similar to the voskhod, but a had sharper feeling but the blade would last an extra shave or two compared to the others. I've only used a voskhod one time and that was in today's shave using my Rockwell 6S on setting 3. usually that plate gives me a dfs but today with a voskhod I was BBS. I'm just a simple preacher and fisherman who sharpens my own knives but that's my take on what I saw glancing at the magnifications. good video Nick!!!
Sting of Truth SoT: I must say the your comment made my day... in a positive way! "Simple Preacher and fisherman" definitely reminds me of the aphorism that the only thing wrong with the term "common sense" is that it is far too uncommon. Your analysis of the respective blade geometries definitely coincides with the evaluation begun by Dr. Nick, the orthopedic surgeon, whose scientific approach is to be lauded. As an inveterate fellow knife sharpener, for what it's worth, I agree with your analysis. Well done! Regards, Simple neurosurgeon and long range target shooter
HA HA HA HA LOL sorry........ somebody just got owned. The Voshkod and Rapira platinum were both very different for me. Which do you like out of the three? Voshkod for me.
Dan Lutter I had precisely the same result: Rockwell 6C, R-3, Stirling Sandalwood, Dr. Nick's technique start to finish. VOSKHOD objectively best smoothest/sharpest (combination) of the three .... Thee trials, all three blades, same independent variables... Now my "go to" blade for consistent BBS !!!!!
Lol it actually brought me back to when I was a CNC machinist. I had to use similar items to inspect my work. Specifically break cores and ball barring housings.
I had a similar experience with Lord and Shark blades. I bought a sample pack with ten different blades in it. I tried every blade with the Lord name and every blade with the Shark name. They all felt exactly the same to me. Not quite smooth but it got the job done. They all lasted about 3 shaves each to. Then I tried a Rapira Super Steel blade and instantly fell in love. The glide was amazing and I got zero irritation. I always get a little on my lower neck line but this time nothing! I didn't change my shaving soap or razor nothing!
I Like Voskhod and Rapira blades. And they are cheapest blades in Moscow Russia. I can buy pack of 5 for 10 rubles, 100 blades for 200 Rubles (1 USD equals ~67 Rubles, 100 blades ~ 3 Usd) And they perfoems well in different razors.
My grandfather worked at a Gillette blade line as a supervisor for a while in the 60s the 2 types of blades were the same just packaged in different colors.
When someone uses in one post "LOL" and "HAHAHA" and makes some sort of serious accusations that usually means that he/she is a troll... First of all it will cost more to produce three different types of packaging and to maintain three different brand names. I would suggest you Nick to ask Italian Barber about that issue. But anyway thanks for a great video and a mature way of dealing with immature comments.
Loved,loved,loved the video.I'm new to wet shaving and I am soaking up as many videos as I can.This was the first I've seen that went into this depth.Thank you.
Really loved this video. I work for a French fri factory. We make fries for all kinds of restaurants like mc. Donald's and Arby's. Although we make them for other companies all French fries are made to spec and recipes of that particular brand.
It's easy to accept that these blades come from the same manufacturer. It's laughable to think they are the exact same blade, especially if you've shaved with each of them a few times. Nick your video did a good job pointing out some of the differences. I think the person that posted that comment has never been in a factory and seen multiples lines with different tooling creating different products.
To me the only thing that matters is that I can get one shave from a Voskhod before they go dull and rough feeling on my face. Both the Rapiras last 3 or 4 days for me. I think the microscope was fairly definitive, but even if it were not, i will go with what my face feels, and don't care about anyone else's experience or knowledge. Shaving is specific to the individual, and this individual finds a difference. Thanks for the video.
In light of your micro pics and micrometer readings, I must concur with you - those blades come from different stock and are honed different. Thx and well done!
Excellent review Nick! One thing I found with all these blades is that the consistency can drift .Open one tuck and use them - get awesome shaves. Open a tuck from another batch and sometimes they give up a slightly less satisfying shave. I love all three of these though. I keep a couple of hundred of each locked away. I have to say though, for a day-to-day shave, I find it hard to go past the "Voshies". I prefer a Platinum Lux if I have a few days growth (the first pass under these conditions generally smooths the blade out a tad whilst remaining very sharp). Voskhods are pretty good in any of my razors and really a good match for my "Braveheart" Razor (which is pretty heavy and an aggressive razor for an "closed comb").
You hit the nail on the head. They may all be manufactured by the same company but differences during the grinding and sharpening of the blades as well as different coatings will all make a difference. I have tried all 3 of those blades and found them all slightly different. I did not really like any of them but the rapira swedish supersteel gave the best results. With my current razor set up the best blade I have found is the Gillette 7 o'clock super stainless (Russian made)
Maybe a more askew to this...I think I am understanding the difference between a sharp blade and a smooth blade in reference to type. Gillette 7 O'Clock is Sharp, I used it on my head last week and ripped it right open with a slight, very slight bad angle. The Gillette Nasce (sp) give me a nice smooth shave, not as sharp, but get's the job done. Where my MMMV, I use three blades a week so me, it's finding a balde that will keep the dome and face looking neat without getting carved up like a turkey. I hope this made sense!
Btw, a small suggestion would be to compare the Personna Lab Blue Blue Wrapped vs. White wrapped, to see if you noticed any differences upon looking closer. I've read someone that Personna replied to a question stating that they are indeed the same as the blue wrapped ones, but I thought it would be fun to compare them microscopically. I would do it but I've never had Blue wrapped Lab Blues.
Nick, thanks for the review. I think the author of the comment made a mistake. He referred to his experience in St. Petersburg where Gilette hosts its blade manufacturing, not Mostochlegmash. And Gilette, indeed, has different brands and labels targeting different markets: Gilette Ruby for Russia, Astra Platinum for mostly Europe, Gillette Platinum (blue cartons) for the Middle East and Arabic market, 7o'clock for America (?). In my experience, these blades work very similar and may be the same. On the contrary, Mostochlegmash is a Moscow manufacture and they have the same branding (Voskhod, Rapira, Ladas) for all markets.
My Mostochlegmash blades (Platinum Lux and Voskhod) all have slightly different honing on opposite edges, and I have had quite different experiences with Platinum Lux blades bought at different times from different vendors. My current hypothesis is that the differences people report between blades from that factory are real, but they are due more to batch variation than to any difference between product lines.
THANK YOU! I responded to said comment kind of in a blaze because I found it to be a HUGE statement to make. I wanted to debate on it with my own findings but I thought ...well doing that in another user's video comments wouldn't be the way to go about it. I was going to analyze the blades I have with a microscope myself. I've already looked at blades in a microscope before also and came to the same conclusion as you, but never tried with a whole "line" of blades from a single manufacturer to compare. Did not expect you take these measures. AMAZING video Nick! I might just do a B&B post of my own findings.
Nick awsome review! Like Always I bought a 100 pack voskhod blades from Ebay via Russia they also sent me 35 extra blades from there Rapira line all different. And I got to say that they are definitely not the same!! There good blades dont get me wrong but I do prefer voshkod over any of them. But Rapira Swedish supersteel I feel is close! Of course thats all subjective to my skin type!! Got to say voskhod has become my go to blade!! Still love personna thoe and Astra is out to much wax residues on actual blade and hot water, wax @ face dont go well!!!
The steal sheet used in the factory production are going to be different from batch to batch in terms of thickness composition and quality, and like manufacture of any products there is a tolerance through out the process. So by measuring the dimensions of few blades in one batch of each product line equals to none. However the honing method that you discover and everyone's experience including yours are actually more valuable input to consider. Even the manufacturer have to respect that. And if these are really manufactured with the same process, it's up to them to find out and worry about.
Bad ass video. I too saw those original comments and I got to thinking how that it might be plausible. Maybe at one time all the different brands were in fact the same blade in different wrappers, but as it stands today, I think you can put it to bed.
Great video, Nick. Thank you for going a step further in terms of clarifying the difference. I was one who contributed to the debate with Don Dan, stating oposite of what he said, since I have had the same experience with some blade as you have, and I have seen the difference of the edges under a microscope as well. A razor blade is not just a razor blade.
Great video, thanks for taking the time to do the objective comparison. It is definitely possible to tell the difference between the various blades, you are not going crazy. I still haven't found anything more comfortable than Voskhods.
This is so awesome. I'm a psychology graduate student, and although this was done on a small level, I love that you put your views aside and actually tested this with some sort of measurement. What better way to get at the answer? Good job!!
To me they are very different. I have tried Voskhods and Swedish Super Steels. Voskhods were okay on my skin. Whereas Swedish Super Steel glide like water down a window pane. Very smooth, very indeed. No irritation. Some of the best shaves I get.
The voskhods and the Rapira platinum lux are the same exact blades from the same factory. They even both have the uneven bevel on each side of the blade. The only difference is the coating used at the finishing stage. Voskhod is teflon coated while rapira is platinum. Remember folks that the smoothness of a blade comes mainly from what coating they have. I find voskhods to be much smoother than Rapira PL.
For me, the difference between "Rapira super stainless" and Voskhod is huge. In short, the Voskhod is the best razor blade I've used so far and the Rapira is the weakest I've used (I've tried Gillete platinum, Wilkisnon sword, Nacet, 7 o'clock, Feather, Astra blue, Bic, Muster, Rapira and Voskhod). I will explain: My beard is not that strong and my skin is sensitive. So, for me, for my beard and my facial skin, sharpness is not a priority, but the smoothness of the shave is. The Rapira started causing problems with the skin already after the second shave (I tried to shave for the fourth time and bitterly regretted it - I peeled off the skin and what it shaved - it shaved badly - it's a razor for 2 shaves, at most 3). And with Voskhod, I shaved 5 times and every time the shave was completely smooth and completely without skin irritation - when I apply the lotion after shaving - it doesn't sting at all!!! as if you applied lotion to your palms. So, these are definitely different razors blades, and not a little different, but a lot different. I use Merkur - Razor FUTUR 700, Adjustable Safety Razor, Proraso sapone de barba, Pinuad Clubman After Shave Lotion, Old Spice Original After Shave Lotion, and Nivea Men Sensitive After Shave Balm
Now that was cool and pretty muchs sums it up. The mircoscope does NOT lie. By the way Nick, I'm now over my learning curve with a straight razor and I also have a jeweler's loupe as well. They probably started with the same type of steel at different thicknesses in the beginning, but that changed once the manufacturing process was started. The results were and are completely different blades.
Or, it could be that they are produced by the same manufacturer, using the same process but on different production lines or at different times on the same line and the steel thicknesses are all within acceptable tolerances. The honing can easily be explained due to being honed by the same equipment at a different time. I do believe that many products are produced by the same manufacturer on the same production lines but privately labeled according to the customer order.
I would expect there to be a difference in the blade thickness and the performance of each blade due to the different coatings on the blades. it would be too costly to use a different gauge sheet for each blades manufacture , would make more sense to use the same stock for each blade and just add the coatings. different coatings would cause different variations in the blades thickness and the performance of the blade. they are all made in the same factory on the same machines I'm sure. you can google it , a lot of blades are manufactured in the same plants but have different labeling for different markets , the feather blades are a perfect example. for the longest time everyone thought there was a difference between the black and red box feather blades and the yellow box feather blades , when in reality they are they same blades just packaged for different markets .
Even if they were all ran on one line with the same stock, a different coating is a different product and will produce a different shave. Dan Don, I guess your intellect is blind if you can't see the different tooling marks left on the blades which plainly indicates they are not the same thing.
Craig Minor While I agree with you that different coatings might cause different thicknesses, under magnification the bevels look definitively different.
Thanks for this. i must admit I like the Voshkods very much. I am a new convert to DE blades so not tried the others yet (though i have some in a blade mix some kind soul sent me on a forum) so I will get around to trying them. I too bought a 100 pack of the Voshkods as got on so well with them. You are right, the first shave is very smooth but dull, the second, third and fourth great and then they seem to tail off. I wonder why these manufacturers need so many blade lines?
I'd like to see what these blades look like after 1, 2, 3 shaves - all things being equal. A bit tricky keeping the constant. Thanks for all your contributions.
I know from my own work sectioning brain tissue for my research that a 10 um difference is significant. Your finding is consistent with what I found, which is the narrower the blade is, the more smoothly it passes through the sample. You are right to mention the profile of the cutting edge (what you called the bevel) because the higher the profile is, the sharper the cutting edge. The blade with the lowest profile was the least sharp. I want agree with Don on his point that a physician, or in +nickshaves case a surgeon, is not a scientist. He is right, and thank God for that. I don't want my doctor to be a scientist. S/he needs to be able to bring science, humanities, arts, and common sense together and use what s/he knows along with his/her compassion and care for real people who really need his help. But, just because Nick is not a scientist does not mean he doesn't know what he's talking about. In this case it seems he clearly did. He did a great job.
Yeah they do indeed feel different with exact same lather and prep. It’s funny you find Supersteel dull. I find them the sharpest and smoothest- only the edge doesn’t last beyond 1 shave for me. The Voskhod’s feel harsh and unimpressive to me and the platinum lux somewhere between (but also unimpressive). Great vid. That’s some serious razor geekery. Respect.
Thank you for going above and beyond by using consumer available tools to make an objective observation. Of course, there is a biased impact with just about everything-including razor blades. However, for the using consumer, this doesn't make much difference when it comes to items that cost around 10 cents each. That could be different if bias made people buy identical blades that were $10 vs 10 cents. I guess that is where advertising comes in. We're not talking about judging the efficacy of a prescription med where any placebo effect would need to be removed from the equation. In the real world, it makes no difference if it is a bias that causes a person thinks one blade is better or if it is real. Great news, in this case, it does seem like there is a real difference that lines up with your subjective experiment. Nice video. To me it did seem like both the edge and the bevel were different on those blades.
Actually I think you are right Nick they are different. I remember having corrected you once abt. Pol-Silver they were Polish not Russian well - you were right saying they are made by P&G in St. Petersburg too - I was wrong. I learned this beeing few weeks ago in Poland. What I learned too is that when P&G bought local producer of DE blades they cetralized production later in St. Peterburg and took those machines avoiding local competition and that nobody can use them again in Poland. So maybe material and machines are different (what your video actually confirms) - even though facility is the same. Very interesting - thanks for this video. Regards from Germany Christoph
Based on my personal shave performance, all 3 blades are different. Voskhods are among my go-to blades, but I heard that the Rapira LUX were even better. IMO, Voskhods give a smooth, close and comfortable shave that neither of the Rapiras can. I can only get a decent shave with the LUX using a vintage Gillette slim Adjustable. None of the other vintage razors work - the Swedish Steel are an affront to my Swedish ancestry.
and your videos are awesome!i've started trying out de blades myself with my parker SR1 shavette..until now i've tried Dorco platinum st300,Voskhod,Astor Bic stainless,Rapira super stainless and Ladas...i have to also check Sputnik,Rapira swedish supersteel and Rapira platinum lux from my russian collection..so far Ladas are the blades to go for me;excellent cutting power,baby smooth with my sensitive skin even after 3 passes..! and nice durability(3 shaves are a viable option imo)..keep up the good work mate!nice scientific explanation there!
Most interesting shaving video I've ever seen. Thanks for this. I'm wondering ... the comment you read says he lived in and worked in St. Pete. But the Rapiras are made in Moscow, aren't they? The St. Pete plant that produces blades like the 7 O'Clock Blue and Yellow, the Gillete Platinums, and Rubies, and Silver Blues, and Astras and PermaSharp SUpers, and Super Iridiums, and a lot more does not produce the Rapiras (I think).. In fact that plant produces so many blades that it's almost inconceivable to me that there aren't many duplicates being sold under different brad names. Could you do a comparison like this on some of the blades coming out of that St, Pete plant?
brilliant video nick. for all your great reviews this is my fav. someone posts BS as fact and you whip the microscope out and disprove them. awesome stuff man.
So, now I wonder if the differences in the blades is due to variation in the manufacturing process. It might be that as hones wear, there are differences in the edge. It would be interesting to look at different lots within a single brand and variation within a lot. It seems likely to me that the manufacturer would not stop the production line to setup different hones. It makes sense that different brands would have different coatings. It wouldn't be hard for the manufacturer to take some blades and run them thru a different coating process.
Just got into the double edge razor scene few months back.. like I have heard from most it was to save money hahahahah.. I like the videos Nick..keep it up and thank you...U took it to the next level on this one great job.
I think you both might be right. I think he has seen coming all those blades coming out of the same factory and maybe even the same production line. Just for example near my home town is a company that makes steel and forms doors for cars and the crash protectors in them. They only have 2 production lines, but nonetheless they make doors for over 20 different car models. Now of course they all look different, but not only that. The actual steel composition and finishing processes and additives used in the finish are completely different between the cars they make those for. So I suppose the maker of these blades may as well use the same production line, set it up to produce Voskhod, shelf out a million blades, but that out for delivery and make another blade next week on the same line from different steel and with different coating.
From my point of view it can be easly the same entreprise, but probably the machine or matrices are not the same, so a difference is quite fast possible, i'm just tried out the LADAS (yellow) and they are excellent blades to. Same quality as Voskhod. Now i'm just starting the RAPIRA stainless. I 2-3 weeks i will give opinion about this three brands...
ill just say the rapira pl performed completely different to the voskhod, for me that is. my bottom lip has little raised bumps where the hair grows, not ingrown and not pimples. so it is very difficult to shave my lower lip without getting lots of nicks. rapira pl basically mauled my lower lip and my neck .voskhod didn't do a thing to my lower lip even after going over it several times. although it did nick 2 spots on my neck but those were my fault. i've only used the voskhod once so i cant say how the next shave will be but ill buy more for sure, just wish they were alittle sharper and gave a closer shave. i swear they feel only slightly sharper than a dorco blade.
Your measurements make actual physical sense. If you have thinner steel you can have a more abrupt blade edge as shown on the Voskhod. The Swedish Supersteel needs that long bezel because it's the thickest.
Nice findings. I remember reading that comment as well. This is the first time you've actually rebutted a comment to. Loved how you busted out the heavy guns. Micro scope and calipers. Wonder if the person will comment to this video and I hope he does haha. I wanna read his dispute to this as well. Not as a fight but a scientific reasoning.
I have only used the Rapira Swedish steel and the Rapira Platinum Lux. They are as different - for me - as night and day. Period. This is with the same soaps, brush, prep etc......
Hey, that was realy cool video. would you mind to do one that you show the blade of the other blades you have used so far, and for the future blade reviews. it really shows why the Voskhod is superior to the Rapiras
I tried the Swedish steel and it was sub-par. Now I am using Polsilver and it is okay, next I have Voskhod. I will try the Platinum after that. But in this video the Voskhod looks more promising.
I do not mind to do so, but you need to take in to a count that it would take a while. Free international shipping from ebay is about a month and I usually give my opinion after I have used some blades and not just 5, I went through about 30 Polsilvers and only after getting them in a regular use I feel comfortable saying what I think of them. Like I also like how Feather cuts, but I also get butchered a lot, and I can asses this after regular use. I think it is a better way since I got the Swedish steel after Busta recommended it and it was awful. Nick likes Derby (not the same as Personna) and for me it is awful. Any way, I will try but it will take some time.
Gluck Huckelson If I'm not mistaken, it appears to be a MM-200 LED MicroMax from Carson Optical, can't assure you it is, but it looks stunningly similar.
Hella late to the party, but alternatively you can snap the blades in half and zoom into the snapped part to look at the grains of the blade It'll be very different if they use different steel and tempering methods, but looking at the edge grind and thickness is not a bad way to see it
I like the Voskhod blades, but I was not impressed with the Rapira Swedish Supersteel. After rwo shave loaded into a Saiver razor (double DE) from Russia, I found them dull and “grabby”. The Rapira Platinum Lux were almost as good a performer as the Voskhod, but the blades from this Russian company that seem to suit me the beat are the Ladas blades. A fairly mild shave. I f I had to pick my two favorites they would be the Ladas and the Voskods. With the Saiver Double DE one pass would be fine for me in general; if I have a bit more time two passes on the neck area. On the weekend, when I have more time, two full passes gives an excellent shave. I generally use Arko soap from Turkey and rotate a couple of different boar brushes, my favorite being a Potuguese Semogue. Darn good budget shaves; all products very reasonably priced.
this was very interesting, im not sure its totally conclusive as having seen how razor blades are made in a factory its possible that different batches of the same brand could have different looking edges, point is , its how one feels about them rather than if they are exactly the same, if one looked at the same brand blades in different packs its possible you may find different looking edges,nice vid though well done!
Great review. Would be interesting to review these side by side using the Personna labs as a base line, as that is the blade by which I judge all others.
I agree with you the bevels on the blades looked different, this could be due to the different coatings also, having gained some experience honing straight razors I now know from experience the way an edge looks can change depending on the stone used to hone it. This does not mean the edge is any less sharp. I have used all the blades mentioned in this post they all work about the same for me , the rapira lux leads them but then again platinum coated blades not matter who makes them seem to excel for me over plain steel or Teflon coated blades. These blades are all made at the same factory just under different labels. It's kinda like the age old myth about personna so called blue labs and Israeli crystal personas or feather black and feather yellow blades , having used all of these also I can say from personal experience there is no difference for me whatsoever. I believe it has more to do with the coating on the blade . Different coatings would also be more durable .
