Are back scabbards a good idea? REPLY to Skallagrim, Wearing a Sword on Your Back Works, BUT... 

Posted this on Skal's video but I'll mention it here too. One thought about the possible origins of the back carry trope. A few years ago I was choreographing a fantasy short film wherein the main character needed to run, jump, clamber over rocks and trees, etc. extensively before drawing his sword. My original intention was to have the sword on his hip, but as you pointed out there was no way to do these stunts without holding the sword in place with one hand (it kept spilling out or getting in the way). Sprinting with one hand stuck to the hip just didn't play very well on camera though, because it always pulled focus to the sword when that wasn't supposed to be the point of the shot. So eventually we moved to a back scabbard, which tolerated the stunts much better. My thought is that maybe people think back scabbards are super cool because they see them in movies, but maybe they exist in movies simply because they are so practical IN A MOVIE CONTEXT. And if another context, like your fantasy adventure, has you sprinting, scrambling, and tumbling often, then it might be a practical way to carry a sword for you too.

I gotta say Shad, that opener actually make me LOL. Respect.

*Shad designs a custom back scabbard to make it more practical because he really enjoys the aesthetics and possible utilities.* *Skallagrim calls out back scabbard users as tryhards.* Shad: "Damn it."

I love how "beefs" in the arms and armour community are just polite discussions about ideals.

i can imagine Shad and Skall going on an adventure together and skall is like: "of course, he has that silly shabbard thing" while on the other hand, shad: "skall is adventuring with a little sword on his hip. typical." constantly mocking each other whenever they can about it

I've said it before... carrying a sword slung across your back could well have been done the same way soldiers would often carry rifles slung across theirs. That is, a way to carry an inconvenient thing so your hands can be free. Not a method of carrying it with the intention that it can be whipped into immediate in action the face of a sneak attack.

Ok, fine... you can have the title of King of the Nerds. I'll reserve Edgelord for myself, just in case. ;) Your back scabbard is smart and well made, but one thing that bothers me about it is that it's partially open. One of the functions that a scabbard fulfills is to protect the blade from the elements. This offers a lot more protection than nothing obviously but it can still easily allow moisture in, and much more than could enter through the gaps between the guard and the mouth of the scabbard. Water could pool in the bottom, although on the upside there is more air circulation which would help dry it out to some extent, I guess. Ah, I just got to the point in the video where you talked about that. The sword frog is a good point, that has the same advantages as simply sticking a scabbard through a belt or sash (easy to adjust position, can be taken off quickly to carry by hand). The only DRAWback (hurr hurr) is that you *have* to hold on to the scabbard while drawing the sword. Depending on the type of chair a back scabbard may be easier to sit down with, yes. At the same time I don't think it would be relevant in many situations. If you're in a tavern or some other public place chances are you're not even allowed to bring a big-ass sword in there (be it history or fantasy). In fact in such a confined space it would be useless anyway. You'd want to carry a shorter blade, which is easy to wear on the hip, sitting or not. If you're out travelling by yourself and want to sit down on a tree stump of whatever the side scabbard wouldn't get in the way, and you could take it off anyway to rest. I take it you're not a fan of the Naruto run? :D 18:43 You were kind of cutting your own backpack there, weren't you? Fair enough though, I suppose you can combine a backpack and a back scabbard if you really want to. 19:49 With this particular scabbard there is another problem that I wanted to bring up but couldn't really demonstrate because I don't have anything that can be set up this way. Which is, you're basically carrying a steering wheel on your back. If someone grabs the handle and the scabbard they get a lot of leverage and can use it to take you down. The other issue I'm seeing is that you can do very little to prevent the sword from being taken off your back. Just raising one arm the way you did would not deter a determined attacker/thief from using both hands to take it. I do think weapon retention is a serious problem. That's why duty holsters for pistols have locks that prevent someone else to access the weapon. A back scabbard may even attract shady individuals who are looking for easy targets. However, holster retention systems are operated on the hip, not behind your back... Trying to unhook something behind your back during an adrenaline rush... doubtful. 28:30 Depending on how you draw from the hip the armpit may be somewhat exposed, but much less so. Also, you now have the sword between yourself and the opponent. When it's on the back there is nothing in between. By the way, you ended up giving away bonus material from the Patreon-only cut. Naughty, naughty... :p You couldn't have known what would be in the final version though. 45:30 It looks like my rising cut when drawing connects while your blade is still facing backwards, which means arm = wrecked. To be fair though, I was using a much shorter sword that draws faster. For the final upload I actually added a section where I compared side to back draw and timed it. The difference was only about a quarter second, but it's enough to cut the arm before the sword is ready to attack when drawn from back. I think we can agree that the only truly convenient way to "carry" a sword is by having a summonable magic version that you can just materialize into your hand from a pocket dimension or whatever. :) And thanks for the response. Overall we mostly agree, it's just about the nitty-gritty details.

I’ll be honest: I go to these kinds of channels because of how wholesome and polite the RU-vidrs are with each other. I love that Skall, Metatron, Shad, and Matt are just chill nerds who don’t create needless drama.

So, after these two discussions about back scabbard vs side scabbard... why not both? The size of weapon that justifies the back scabbard is not a viable weapon in the kinds of spaces Skallagrim was criticizing the back scabbard for being bad in, while the size of weapon that justifies a side scabbard isn't as strong as the larger weapon with the space to shine. As far as I can tell, carrying a beefy sword in a back scabbard and a short sword or dagger in a side scabbard will cover you for all situations. In Urban environments, populated towns, claustrophobic city streets and the like, using a beefy sword wouldn't be viable at all. If you get attacked by some guy with a knife, you can't risk hitting civilians, or damaging your sword on a wall. As such, in those situations you would just strap the beefy sword to protect from thieves, and use your sidearm that's actually useful in those environments. Forests could go either way, depending on how dense the forest is and where you get attacked. In uninhabited roads and fields where you can easily spot thieves and use the beefy sword unhindered, you can loosen the straps on the beefy sword and use that as your primary weapon. Thanks to the range and power of that larger weapon, it can fend off assailants more easily than the smaller weapon, especially if it's 1v2 or more. This would be overkill for the average person, but I can see this combination being viable for mercenaries, wandering travellers, bodyguards, the kinds of people who don't always know where they're going to be in a few weeks. Having both the beefy sword in the back scabbard and the sidearm in the side scabbard will keep you covered in pretty much every situation you might need to be prepared for.

Oz, I'm glad you did the second theft attempt when Shad was busy talking, because my main criticism with the first attempts was that a thief wouldn't steal from someone standing in the middle of nowhere with nothing to do but be aware of their surroundings, a thief would steal from someone in a crowd whose mind is busy with something else!

I said this on the other video and I'm saying it here. The next Elder Scrolls needs to have Skall and Shad as rival blacksmiths with their shops on opposite sides of the street from each other and they're constantly throwing insults at each other and occasionally chase each other with weapons but at the end of the day they're in the tavern drinking together like brothers.

"We can't debate who's favorite color is right. It's green by the way" "No, it's red, Skallagrim!" THAT was the part I was waiting for. Knowing Shad and Skall's favorite colors and that Shad was TOTALLY going to bring that up once he got to it. You two are the reason I got into swords and melee weapons in general, that I recently began to expand to other types and picked up a three-section staff to add to my collection thus far. Also I have to agree with Skall, Green > Red.

Oz makes a good demonstration of the power of distraction when he captures the sword while Shad is distracted with talking to the camera. Oz also makes a compelling closing argument to the video. For the sake of completeness, he should have had a sword on each hip, a sword on the front, and a sword on the back to protect against attacks from all horizontal directions. For extra protection, he could wear a crotchard with a sword between his legs and a helmard with a sword on the top of his head.

One benefit of having two hands free when running is that you can hold things. Grab a heavy Plot Mcguffin and take off running with your sword on the side. That's a fairly common need for an Adventurer

I actually think that 40:10 thing that Oz did only adds to validity of Skall's point about stealing, since at that moment Shad had 0 awareness about it opposed to the tests at around 21:00 mark. So good job, Oz!

The flash can't beat the speed of shad replying to skall's vid

I love how you both can have this discussion without trying to shut down the others whole argument, but add to it and be open to each other.

You know, you unintentionally brought up an interesting point. The reason, there are so many back scabbards in fantasy is probably simply about presentation. If you do a close up shot of the face, the weapon will still be on screen.

That intro has me dying of laughter. You are in fact the cringier nerd king, but that’s a good thing.

Lol I love that Shad chose to use the type XVIIIb Longsword by Lockwood that he got FROM Skall for this response.

You have just been putting out videos left and right this week Shad. All I have to say is good job to you, Oz and Nathan.

Omg OZ that is brilliant! Why has noone ever thought of carrying on the front before.

bro, it's so good to see Shad having a blast as always making his vids, it's really joyful. The sneak attempt was hilarious

Wow that was quick.

40:28 Oz NEVER disappoints me. I knew he would try to do it off-script. The "casual" intimidation attitudes/poses deserve a separate video. I really would like to see OZ performing his own examples.😂😂

I think what we've learned out of this, and probably the most important part of the videos. Don't put a shorter sword on your back, back scabbards are for larger weapons. Also, yes, if you compare everything to those toothpicks skall carries with him as opposed to a longer blade, sure you can draw, swing, do whatever faster - to some extent.

I am an exercise physiologist and I try to insert some useful information in the comments when applicable. Couple things: not criticisms, but helpful information. Swinging with both arms is biomechanically beneficial. By not swinging your arms, you are affecting your balance in a way that will ultimately slow you down (part of the reason why you swing the opposite arm to the opposite leg). How much does this matter? Depends on the situation but if your balance is affected, other musculature has to work harder thus bringing on the onset of fatigue sooner. I genuinely believe the back scabbard would be more beneficial for adventurers who need to be able to escape a situation as fast as possible.

personally i like the idea of a back scabbard in a fantasy setting i've been brewing for a while. there's a "special forces" type group who primarily patrol and enforce a very wet swamp region, they carry a swordstaff as a primary weapon but also have a short machete like blade they wear across their back both for utility and if the combat gets too close for their staves.... why this particular combo? they can wade damn near up to their waste in water and not have to worry about their metal weapons getting submerged and the protective oil getting washed off.

As for rain and moisture getting in the scabbard, there's records of wooden scabbards swelling and trapping the sword, or for like 19th century steel scabbards, the blades rusting to the scabbards, freezing them in place

One point about the quick draw: While out in the open it's very useful, you don't want to use such a big sword in crowded places and indoors. Naturally you'd keep a far smaller weapon on your side if you can, which would work much better when you're limited in space. So, every issue in those environments only applies when it's your only ready to use weapon.

“Do you need to have your hands free” feels like a point lacking imagination. It’s not hard to think of circumstances where an adventurer needs to be carrying something with both hands but can’t just leave their sword behind. A ladder, a pole vault, treasure while being chased, a wounded comrade, a crossbow. All *sorts* of things in all *sorts* of circumstances. And then yes, just being able to move your arms when sprinting… say you’re being chased by a bulette, do you really want to have to hold your sword when running or do you want to book it in a heartbeat? Or hell, what if your left arm is injured and can’t hold the scabbard? Are you just gonna trip yourself up when trying to flee and die for it?

Gotta love the back and forth between Skallagrim and Shadiversity.

I've been reading the book series, last kingdom and one of the thing I remember most is Uther talking about how he wears his sword, serpent-breath, on his back because, in his own words, it's easier to pull out in mid fight and also combine it with a strike, since you can slam it down as you pull it up. While reading that I was thinking "lol, shad would have something to say to this guy"

Shad, you're Shabbard is amazing, just in case you need to hear that.... Maybe Skall should have one for his testing too? I think the exposure to the Elements would be one of the biggest issues for an adventurer, that and the fact that it's damn hard to caress your big Pommel if it's above your head.... And the next Witcher game better include a Shabbard instead of a regular one where the blade morphs in!

Dammit! 🤣 That intro alone reminds me, why I keep coming back to this channel! Never lose your humor Shad!

We need more Skall-Shad collabs! =)

It seems like this: Longer Swords/Great Swords, it's best on the back (With Shad's Scabbard design) Short Swords and Longswords, can be better on the hip, since the length of the blade isn't a problem. Length of the blade seems to be the deciding factor, as Skallagrim never used anything longer than an Arming Sword it seemed. As Shad points out in his video many times, length of the sword matters just as much.

to be fair the awareness test performed here has a flaw, shad is completely ready that someone is coming to take the sword even if not when, in a real world scenario you wouldnt Stand around waiting for someone to come grab your sword, and they would probably do it when you're occupied with some other activity that has your focus.

I can't believe that Shad didn't mention the most obvious reason for Shabbards. You can carry _at least_ one more sword, possibly two, if one isn't too long. In addition to two swords on each hip, that's _six swords,_ opening the possibility for hextuple wielding, if you have six arms, or an abundance of options, if you have only one or two arms, or even just fewer than six. Obviously, you'll need hands to go with those arms, and, also, you can hextuple wield while having _more_ than six arms, in which case the extra arms won't need hands. Clearly, if you have more or less than two hips or shoulders, that'll throw off the numbers.

If I were "an adventurer" and if I had a back scabbard, it would not be that hard to craft an efficient "greatsword cloak" for keeping dry. It would have an asymmertical design. what you would want is a single piece of cloth that would drape over the right shoulder, under the scabbard and hanging to the ground, drape across your front and over your left shoulder, then back across your back (over top of the scabbard), and then loop it back to the front side, passing between the sword and the neck, and fold over the body like a very large scarf that then drapes to the ground. I would need to do some tests to get the dimensions right, but I'm picturing something along the shape of a giant long sleeve shirt, with a very broad middle portion, and then thinner "arms" to represent the parts that drape over the front and back of the right arm. This *should* add up to strong protection from the elements, and fully cover the scabbard, but not interfere with its function. It might be best used with some sort of tabbard or "back skirt" to handle the slit running down the right shoulder though.

Running w/o arms: apparently running with the arms uses about 10% less energy than running with arms still. Not sure how that affects immobilizing a single arm, but even if it's 5%, surely that will make some difference.

🌸😹I cannot say that I did not see this coming and it shall be interesting to see your take and it is astonishing how swift your reply was.😹🌸

Just a minor comment on the Sword stealing test, you have the advantage of being aware that at some point it Oz will make the attempt. In day to day life, unless you're obscenely paranoid, you're not going to be as aware. If you're in a situation where you feel extra awareness is warranted and you devote the additional energy to being extra aware, then yes, it would be more difficult to steal. In a practical sense though, unless your sword is especially valuable, no thief worth their salt is going to target a hyper vigilant and jumpy adventurer, they'll find an easier mark like someone who is more lackadaisical, distracted or impaired in some way (Inebriated, upset, etc.). The hip scabbard has the advantage of being in a naturaly easier to observe location and a very practical and effective way to keep extra safe that doesn't impact its utility, you can just rest a hand on it. The same could be done with the back scabbard though that would get tiring for your arm and is naturally very conspicuous. [EDIT] 40:27 Yeah, like that.

As an adventurer, removing the sword in the scabbard, being able to run, having a huge sword, being able climb and wade, are bigger advantages, but having it stolen from behind, harder to be intimidating and trouble sitting is a much smaller problem since adventurers find themselves in chaotic, rapidly changing environments that are quiet and not full of other humans

With your improved design, I think I would definitely prefer a back scabbard if it is not exceeding expensive. Especially if I was a adventurer in a fantasy setting. Well done !

Now I kinda want Shad to analyze the validity of Oze's front Scabbard, lol. And how would you call it ?

"I like big swords and cannot lie" -Shad probably

The reason I made a (very bad) back scabbard was that my plastic practice longsword was (esp. when I was a kid) waaaay too long to have at my side- getting the tip high enough to walk meant putting the pommel in my armpit. The reason you want your hands free when running isn't speed, it's balance (and the fact that you'd have to slow down to get the same level of balance, esp. on difficult ground or when you're afraid of falling). Could I note that if somebody gets close enough to steal your sword that way, they definitely got close enough to jam a dagger into your neck. I'm not saying it's not a concern, it's just that if the area you're in is inhabited by people who steal stuff that way, you're going to need to have awareness no matter what type fo sword.

The head nod was terrifying

Wait I figured it out. Skall has a Patreon. He probably shows his patreon members the videos early, meaning Shad is a Patreon member of Skallagrim. Alternatively, Skall showed the vid to Shad first

I realize we have a video of a grown man in medieval cosplay explaining sword scabbards in front of a fake castle he built in his backyard... The King of Nerds, indeed. I bow to thee

Ok now that's extra weird. It's been months since I've needed to rewatch one of your old "wearing a sword on your back" videos for a book I'm trying to write, finally decide to do it today, and you just happen to release another one as I'm done, wtf ?

When a person is going to steal from you..does it really matter if it's on the back or not? If a person has it at their hip, the thief can just run by while grabbing the handle and draw it as they run. You're likely NOT stopping that if it's on the hip, at all.

"Ozz.. tistic... content..." Lol. Why do I get the feeling that he's not the one who thought of that.

Just because you can do something doesn’t mean you should, but that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t.

"I'm like a 100 times more cringe worthy than you" Skal: *starts unscrewing his pommel*

Upvoted just for the frog. Very cool idea, makes so much sense. Also, awesome mic! Based on the huge wind in the background.

One major advantage drawing from the hip has it that even before the sward fully out it is shielding your torso.

I hadn't considered back sheaths for my fantasy characters. As they're something like mage/ninjas/adventurers... it might make sense. Their instructor would likely say it's a matter of preference... and might be necessary if posing as a member of a guard unit with back sheaths. (by the way... is shabbard trademarked?)

All for the front scabbard personally

The biggest thing I got from this was that Shad likes big swords and Skal likes smaller swords

I like the look of the back scabbars aswell, but in a high stress situation, side scabbard is way more reliable in my opinion. The reaching to the back is just more awkward than going to the hip.

One of the things about hearing people sneaking up behind you on the grass… If you’re walking through a busy town or busy city street there’s probably enough background noise that you won’t hear somebody coming up behind you to swipe your sword off of you

The scratching of the back of the head, the sneezing into elbow or old yawning stretch all valid ways of intimidating your opponent whilst wearing a backscabbard.

I have a question. Could armor be a potential issue with the back scabbard, I’d imagine that if you are wearing some kinds of shoulder guards maybe even just bulky armor it could keep you from reaching back properly. I guess though an adventurer probably wouldn’t be wearing the much armor that would interfere with it.

I feel like every good point skallagrim makes mostly just applies to smaller swords and the main advantage of a Shabbard is carrying bigger swords.

Wearing the sword that Skallagrim gave you, nice touch!

I can see a great sword or war sword being carried on the back but being already drawn and carried in hand before battle. Otherwise I do agree with skall. The latch would slow your time down even more. Otherwise I do think a side sword or bastard sword would be better on the hip.

Front scabbard could actually work ... Oz might have stumbled upon an golden idea

Zoned out for a good bit of this, but that custom scabbard has the huge issue of being open to the air. Part of the function of a scabbard is to protect the sword from the elements.

Its so fun to hear two friends talk about something they are passionate about

ok. shabbard is definitely the go-to when adventuring because climbing and running and stuff like that.

I don't like to watch Skal's videos anyway, so getting the whole picture with just your video is excellent!

Question: isn't the point of a sidearm or arming sword, to have fast easy access for emergency and a war sword for when you know beforehand combat is imminent? It seems like Skallagrim is trying to put a sidearm into a back scabbard and Shad is trying to put a war sword into a side scabbard. Neither is meant for the other.

24:50 that applies to a lot of stuff, more so than just back scabbards. Anything attached to a backpack can be stolen as easily. Cut-purses could steal a sword at your waist as well. Not as successfully as they could steal coins, you notice slight changes to something as heavy as a sword on your body much more so than the few coins you'd be carrying, but the same principles would apply to a sword at your waist as a wallet in a breast pocket, at most. The only real difference would be size, making the getaway harder to accomplish without getting caught.

Now we just need Schola Gladiatoria, Metatron & Lindy Beige to round out the discussion

I think that the whole carrying the sword on your back thing started with the ninja craze of the 70's & 80's

I feel in terms of intimidation, Skal's got a point. Like sure, the handle sticking out of the shabbard is clearly visible. But it's not only about saying "I've got a weapon", it's also about "Notice how, right now, my hand is already on my weapon's handle/pommel?" It carries across the idea that not only do you have a weapon, you are currently considering using it.

You should get the company that made that sheath a copyright

i absolutely agree that comfort and preference would be an important factor.

Yo, the front scabbard + back scabbard is the answer to the dual wielding with a back scabbard! If that's your aesthetic

The amount of difficulty, wearing and drawing a longer blade on the side, is proportional to the wielders height. Since I have no idea about yours, I can't judge how hard it would be for a person of average height and thus arms length. The taller you are, the higher your belt will be situated as well.

The sword steeling is definitely a problem, in a busy town where people are naturally walking behind you makes the back scabbard more vulnerable to theft.

Here in Poland we wore side arms much lower, hanging from the belt, the length of those links was helpful on horseback, but also when sitting you could rest the tip on the floor vertically without detaching from the belt.

FYI, in the modern world, wandering around with any sword is a "fantasy scenario." In 99% of places it's legal to carry a firearm, and *illegal* to wear a sword of any type in public.

0:22 I want you and Skallagrim to duel for that title, *I must see action take place to claim thy crown.*

Did anyone else facepalm at “Oztistic content?” Nice one Oz!

Another way to draw the sword from the back is to have the scabbard hang loose from the back, and as you draw your sword up you pull the scabbard down.

lol nerd fights on youtube are so amusing, nice vid shad its nice to see a fellow aussie do vids, and talk about swords better then most. keep up the vids and nice work

There's only one solution to that issue: you and Skallagrim are going to have an ordeal duell.

For intimidation, you could keep a arming sword on the side for the knob stroke technique, then switch it up with the shaburd

At least Shad is becoming self aware. (And is being more humble like he used to before his book got published)

its so cute that he left oss being silly stealing the sword in the middle of shad explaining. funny

The ideal intimidating gesture with a backscabbard is crossing your arms, inhaling a bit deeper than usual to expand your chest and cause the sword to shift, and tilting your head slightly to further expose the pommel and guard

There are always tradeoffs - making back scabbard more secure against sword falling off or being stolen with a holding loop / strap, on the other hand makes drawing out process even longer (the second major issue pointed in @Skallagrim video). (Note that you would not have clip-on closing in medieval times, I think).

[41:19] "I don't mind rubbing this knob to ward you off" [47:14] "I like big swords" - Shad, 2022

For your custom back sheath you have brought up some good points. However for a regular basic back sheathe such as what skalligrim is using.He has some very valid points

The leather loop theft-protection will slow down your draw speed even more, though, and I feel like it might be quite the significant speed reduction, too.

Shad you actually draw faster than I do from the back as I am holding onto my Hammerhead and spinning my shaft forward to my chest only then getting a firm grasp of my weapon.

runners: theorycraft the perfect hand movement for running. Skall: just hold onto sword. just a lil joke