Are Bulgarian Cavaliers Better Than Paladins? 

Spanish vil are op Still waiting for their movie though from SotL

I didn't expect to see spanish villagers.

Antoine Guerrier It’s ok, no one expects the spanish inquisition.

yesn't ?

Oh no anything but supremacy

It's because of the update for balance SpiritOfTheLaw2020.01.01

Same man.

Song is a banger

I remember that the song is reserved for civ overviews

This guy gets it

That opening theme is the best

Definitely!

That's true, but can this civ beat Franks on daily basis? The Bulgarian cavalry must be on par with the Frank, because face it. Bulgaria beat the Franks three times! Three f***ing times! Once Omurtagus, once Kaloyan and once Ivan Assen II. They never defeated us! Never! Give us an early game bonus and make us beat them on daily basis!!!

@@spd-kv6sd omurtagus beat the franks with a river fleet, not with cavalry. Kaloyan won in a marsh, and lost a number of sieges, and never won a battle without cuman allies. (he did infact loose a number of sieges) Ivan Assen had Nicean allies, and when he lost them he sided with the Latins (franks), so i wouldn't say he beat the franks. infact both Kaloyan and Ivan gave large numbers of frankish knights passage through their lands when asked despite haveing an anotgonistic relationship with the Latin empire. implying they feared frankish knights.

yeah, the time when you dont want to invest heavily in melee upgrades. Just Cav upgrades.

I was going to post this as well. I dont use paladins anyway late game with bulgarians. It's easy to mass ip thr cheaper krepost and produce konnicks.

That's true, but Bulgarians also need an early game bonus. That's what makes them weak. If they're going to be a bit weaker in the final ages, they have to be stronger earlier. Furthermore, it fits historically better that they keep the Paladin. This is not a cavalry on par with the Franks, who Bulgarians beat in three wars!

@@spd-kv6sd Yea, thats stupid. Bulgarians biggest force was heavy armored horseman. Removing paladin doesn't make sence.

China dont get chemistry, 20Elephants fit on a boat, 21 archers dont.... its a game guys its not like that they are an archer civ or something... i think sergio is right

Yup.

I love how "Everyone Liked that" No joke, seriously. This is great. I love the AOE2 community.

Paladin upgrade is super expensive too. Not having to rely on it is a plus, really

@@jefffinkbonner9551 Yeah, you get an *almost* Paladin as a free gift instantly, and as I said for the rare cases when both sides survive to the very end AND still have lots of gold to burn through with maxed out cav you have an alternative.

@@jefffinkbonner9551 In addition to that you get the 33% bonus for other cavalry the civ can field.

y e s

Cool idea

Blacksmith Upgrades are always at max I guess. thats the first thing you should consider to get anyways.

Not to mention those can come in faster with Bulgarians and their allies

All castle upgrades in the late castle & early imp test. Full upgrades available in the late imp test, naturally.

@@SpiritOfTheLaw can you make a video about the new Teuton Paladines and how difficult they are to counter please 😌?

i think it works better if you use the whole stable rather than just three fourths of it.

That's right, but how do you get to them? Something must support the man-at-arms rush in Feudal or help them come to Castle faster.

@@spd-kv6sd Well, they're M@A are pretty strong. They're Scouts attack 33% faster too. Tower could be a nice trick because they're Tower Center cost half the stone. For me seems like a lot of choises just for feudal age.

@@GuilhermeMiranda89 their scouts are Not attacking faster in feudal age. They get it with stirrups in castle age

@@srbishkrst oh didn't remember that. Yeah, that is a big problem. This make m@a more important.

I just understood the name of the unit "plumed archer" now. Thanks. In norwegian that bufalo-hair hanging from the Norwegian guadsmen's hats are called "plym". It is probably from french or something, like everything else that has with war to do.

@@light_david7 The word 'plumed' is most likely an english latinism from the word 'pluma', which means 'feather'. As an spanish, it was pretty intuitive for me since we use the exact same word 'pluma' to refer to feathers.

@@eRic-hr3yl Yes. The hats of the Norwegian guardsmen used to have a rooster feather in them before (like 100+ years ago). The word in norwegian is used for describing that dangling thing in hats, whether it be a feather or hair from an animal.

@@eRic-hr3yl yeah, also "plume" in french

"Plummed archers"

you're absolutely spot on. A good cavalry civ should be one where their bonuses affect their Calvary & they need not rely on just one Major Paladin. In fact, what happens when golds run scarce? A good Calvary Civ should be one where their other "Calvary" can do without Gold-heavy calvary and still be using calvary bonuses to win other enemies. In such a case, that civs can be quite over-powered but they can definetly do with some nerfs to other parts like maybe siege/infantry/defenses to make it more balance or make it more reliant on allies other bonuses.

Yeah im for this

Teuton's lategame paladins are probably the strongest most of the time

@@sailoissaiko5242 True, but also the slowest. A good question would be how do you rank HP/Defense/Attack/Speed between all the Paladins. I'd still say Frank Paladins edge out the Teutons, but not by much. Lithuanians with +5 relics dominate though.

@@heresiarch. The frank paladin has 12 extra hp whereas the Teutons have 3 extra melee armor. That makes the Teuton much better in Melee and very slightly worse against ranged unit. Teuton palas are also more resistant to conversion at the cost of slightly lower speed. Overall I think the Teuton one is better in most situations.

*Lithuanian relic bonus caps out at a max of 4 now And Teuton paladins get +2 melee armor in imperial age not three But I agree, extra melee armor for a melee unit is most beneficial. But extra attack speed is an underrated bonus

True, but how many times did The Viper research it? If he plays a civ with Paladins, he almost always gets to that point.

With how cheap the Cav upgrade is and the fact they share upgrades with the Konnicks now you can field both in a game

EchelonFisher It’s true one can click an enemy unit to see what kind of attack/ armor/ hp upgrades it has. But one can’t do that with stirrups without taking some kind of fight and squinting to see if their guys are swinging their swords faster than yours are.

Rip and tear until it is done?

@@LumosX he's talking about cobra kai, so it ain't doomer you coomer

@@1Insurgency1 ok boomer

@@LumosX don't call me a boomer you zoomer

@@1Insurgency1 You asked for it when you called me a coomer, you gloomer!

What kind of castles are you talking about! Kreposts are better >:(

@@unimportantcommenter4356 touché

Fortunately for Bulgarians, massing their unique unit is easier than for any other civ because of the krepost. However, they can only produce the unit. Upgrade to elite and the important unique tech stirrups must be researched at a castle. Seems like the meta would be open Castle Age with knights and build a castle before a krepost in order to research stirrups. Then one can continue with knights into cavalier or make use of many kreposts to spam konniks while using the castle principally for tech upgrades

The problem is Bulgarians still have a relatively weak early game. Something must boost the man-at-arms rush in Feudal so that they can walk smoother through the ages. Free upgrades don't really help and FF into archers still can bust any infantry rush.

Assuming you don't get denied said relics. If you get denied all relics you're F'ed.

@@Tyshkevich As much as is everyone when the opponent has all relics.

I see it as a nerf. Why do you need Cavaliers, if you can have Konniks? You need a castle already for stirrups and can build Kreposts. Getting numbers up shouldnt be that much of an issue. Paladins usually are not worth it unless you are fighting against a lot of archers and in that case you dont have that option anymore.

@@ucallmeschnitzel there are times when I still have knights around before ive made a castle. Also stables can be made cheaper and quicker than a castle.

I agree, get out... just don't forget to take this thumbs up with you!

I hear that joke a lot but the thing is you don't pronounce (i)Konnik the same way as iconic. It's pronounced like KoN-Nik, the double n is not deaf it's really in there.

Booo

The Bulgarian Cavaliers aren't the future, because the future is... IIIIIIIIIKONNIK! (double pose)

@@NeonKnightOA Ah, I see you're a man of culture as well.

@STORM LORD Hong Kong.

Bulgarians drink rakyia. Take it from a Bulgarian :D Vodka is too northern.

@Dann98 Zelenin Rakia is too Western? Rakia is the most Balkan thing possible. Vodka is Russian/Polish stuff, foreign to our land. Anyway, if I go with alcohol it would be -> beer > wine -> rakia.

@Dann98 Zelenin They do, I have Croatian and Romanian friends. The Romanians call it Cuika (or something along those lines) - it's the same thing. The Croatian people also have something like that. South slavs are different from Northern or Western slavs. Russians and Ukrainians are much more different than Bulgarians or Serbs. For example: they don't have a culture of drinking wine. Wine is very important to the Balkans.

The total resource difference between Stirrups and Paladin is 10 more Cavalier, which defeats most same-resource Paladin setups from any civ. In this way, Stirrups Cavalier sounds better than Konnik in straight cavalry battles. The same resource savings between Stirrups and Paladin could also go into fully upgrading mounted and dismounted Konniks to make Konniks the more flexible unit vs. anti-cavalry while still evenly trading against generic Paladins in equal numbers. The new Stirrups make Knights vs. Konniks an either-or choice.

better dps doesn't mean its faster to kill. say a target unit has 50 hp and we have two attackers. one has 30 dps and attacks twice per second. the other has 10 dps but attacks once every 5 seconds. the lower dps unit kills the target faster. because it kills it right away in one hit (50 damage per hit every 5 seconds = 10dps) while the other takes the whole 2 seconds to kill it. just an extreme example so it's easier to visualize. my point is sometimes that 2 extra damage (which is relatively a lot more important after accounting for target armor, i might add) may result in less hits to kill. in low hp units that might be the difference between killing in 3 or 4 hits. and there goes all the speed advantage.

@@GraveUypo Of course I didn't mean to ignore armour or even neglect the situations where you kill with less hits. If we would do the whole formula will might have some cases coming in both ways. I just was remembering that the bonuses don't work in a straight way (your comment make this point in some, we have lots of things to consider). I always run Excel and tests over this type of things and I did in other RTSs as well like AoE3 or AoM. All games have particularities that need to be adressed to the simulation be real to the results in the game itself.

@@GraveUypo I would like to pick our exemple here once more. So our cavalier hits the 5th strike when the paladin hits the 4th. Because the 1st strike as no cooldown and by 3 paladin's hits the cavalier with 33% more attack speed has a "extra attack" so: 1+3 paladin = 1+4 cavalier. Nice, so the "extra attack" is not added straight ahead, you need to subtract the armor. Let's say we have one armor, so at the 4thpaladin hit the cavalier is hitting 11 more damage. What we are really gaining in this situation is that the cavalier is killing faster and going to the next target. You can put like 10 cavalier to kill 15 archers and 10 paladin to kill the same 15 archers and we could see the final result as "how much HP calaliers have left vs how much HP paladins have left", and we would be counting both the extra HP of the paladins and the faster killing of the cavaliers (which let the archers shoot less times). But as the cavalier is strong enought to survive agaist archers (what doesn't happen with the paladins) this extra damage will not drop off during the battle (or, in other way, will drop less because few cavaliers will die to arrows). Btw the whole point is just to test some "non frontal confrontation". Maybe just agaista random unit, or a unit that is countered by and one unit that counters the unit analysed in the video (this time the knight line). We can see the units in a much broader way than just puting them too smash their "equals".

Still could have had that with Paladin available and perhaps some paladins would still be able to defeat the Bulgarian. The problem is that there is a peak of a powerspike and instead of making the civ consistent, the change made it even more situational. The late game seems weaker and that must be offset by a bonus that helps m@a rush.

Same

Konnik, the Bulgarian Unique unit

It's new to the Definitive Edition of AoE2.

its pretty easy, just create triggers to allow the techs

Or you can simply select the full tech tree option.

It's an obvious yes since they have the best knights and cavaliers, no reason for the paladin to be different since its the same upgrade

@@papnpdprpep no because all techs removes all civ bonuses

It's surprisingly easy. You open the editor and select Bulgarians as civ, set post imp as starting age and you put down paladins (different upgrades of the same units are counted as different units in the editor) I guess they would win against everybody but lithuanians with 4 relics

Probably, but the lack of husbandry still doesn't help the knight rush and they still consistently lose to Lithuanian with 4 relics and Franks.

That will mean in this case Japanese shouldn't get Champion, because their infantry attacks 33% faster. And that's for free! Also look at this in the tech tree - Champion unavailable, Crossbowman unavailable, Paladin unavailable... Which strong unit is fully upgraded??? And if Huns get Paladin, Bulgarians should.

@@spd-kv6sd Japanese lost the champion ?! When XD ? (they had it in AoE 2 HD) Bulgarians doesn't have champions aswell by the way

@@gabrielclamens3151 i feel like you need to reread his comment it seems like you misunderstood everything.

@@MikeKing001 ah yes, sorry ^^; though Bulgarians should have Champions at least

@@gabrielclamens3151 It's more historically accurate that they get Paladin in case Huns get Paladin.