Are Ken and Ryu in Smash Ultimate SECRET High Tiers? (ft. Little Z, Marss, ESAM & WaDi)

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Ken and Ryu have always been, well, weird in Smash Ultimate. No one really knows for sure whether they’re good or not. Vendetta, a shoto main, recently made a case for the characters by placing 7th at a massive tournament. We got some of our PROS to review his sets.
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Super Smash Bros. Ultimate on the Nintendo Switch brings together everyone’s favorite Nintendo characters such as Mario (Super Mario Bros.), Link (The Legend of Zelda), Samus (Metroid), and Pikachu (Pokemon) in one of the most popular fighting games ever made! The series is further set apart by including a selection of 3rd party video game characters from different franchises such as Persona’s Joker, Street Fighter’s Ryu, Final Fantasy VII’s Cloud and Sephiroth, and Sega’s Sonic The Hedgehog. Most recently the game has been updated to Version 13.0 where Kingdom Heart’s Sora has been added as DLC to the game!
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#LittleZ #Marss #ESAM #WaDi #Vendetta #SmashUltimate #Panda #PandaGlobal

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Опубликовано:

28 фев 2022

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Комментарии : 272

@rivalmjd8541 2 года назад

As someone who plays Street Fighter, KOF, Tekken, etc. and LOVES these characters so much, it makes me laugh so hard to see how much some Smash players hate them.

@Similarity_ 2 года назад

For me its mainly the downtilt spam combined with auto turn around. I just hate not being able to mix up what side of them im landing on because they just have to spam the a button no matter which side im on. Cant roll behind either

@uroy8371 2 года назад

@@Similarity_ yep and they have special cancel instead of having to follow the di, is just spam inputs. But without autoturn around I'll be fine, and respected a little more.

@kayden2119 2 года назад

smash players hate literally every character so its inevitable. Also little z is a content farmer who just complains and mars just kinda makes his stream personality off of sarcastic comments but he at least has the skill to back it up.

@andreazhab 2 года назад

Honestly, the only one that shouldn’t be allowed to have the kit he has is Kazuya. Having a ToD character is never fun in a fighting game.

@Similarity_ 2 года назад

@@kayden2119 i dont hate specific characters i just hate specific game mechanics certain characters have like super armour and auto turn around.

@Sponsie1000 2 года назад

Vendetta might've only killed with upB, but light was using upsmash for about 98% of his kills so it applied to both of them l felt

@fupalover 2 года назад

Yeah fox relies more on his upsmash then Ken does on his upB

@colemcewan5769 2 года назад

@@fupalover what did you just say?

@lyrics2challenged 2 года назад

WaDi was complaining about Ken auto turn while Fox was just doing U tilt into itself lol..both characters rely on the same shi for setups into kills. People see shotos and forget basically every character has setups for their kills/lack multiple ways of killing.

@mitchellemery8455 2 года назад

@@lyrics2challenged That isn't auto turn. It's a Shoryuken input, plus the oposite direction. To repeat: That shoryuken that turns around isn't auto turn around. It's skill and practice.

@smashdriven1640 2 года назад

How the heck did Little Z and Wadi make like the exact same comment about how he should lose two stocks for getting shine spiked in Ultimate?

@Salone_FD 2 года назад

Ryu and Ken Kara Canceling into your girl’s dms:

@gj4312 2 года назад

"Wow that killed him" "What a shine" Wadi: "abididibabwa"

@LuigiLonLon 2 года назад

Seeing Marss seethe against Shotos gives me huge amusement

@anukakuruppuarachchi7092 2 года назад

Little Z describing how hard it is to play normal fighting games is hilarious

@Sillylilgrill 2 года назад

People who play normal fighting games are gigachads

@Clarkbardoone 2 года назад

@@Sillylilgrill I appreciate the compliment

@Sillylilgrill 2 года назад

@@Clarkbardoone np

@rivalmjd8541 2 года назад

@@Sillylilgrill Why thank you sir

@Sillylilgrill 2 года назад

@@rivalmjd8541 no problem :3

@_Gemkas_ 2 года назад

The editor go harddddd. Great job on all the smooth transitions between 4 players, nor easy. Great job and much love to the editor!!!

@tgmt20z 2 года назад

I'm mad about the clear anti-air shoryus on light fairing from ledge getting called random. absolutely seething!!!!

@MannyForReal 2 года назад

Same, even in vendetta's stream you see him talk about using it as an anti air more and how he doesn't do them at random.

@SleepyFawn 2 года назад

I think they mostly just mean that he didn't combo into it, it's a raw up-B xD

@wahrudo 2 года назад

yes they are, and im tired of pretending theyre not

@Sancnea 2 года назад

Why were you pretending they weren't?

@wahrudo 2 года назад

@@Sancnea it's a joker reference

@Sancnea 2 года назад

@@wahrudo Ah! Makes sense.

@maxwalton7044 2 года назад

@@Sancnea Smash players hate when any praise is given to FGC kharacters.

@Sancnea 2 года назад

@@maxwalton7044 What makes you think so? I've seen nothing but people getting hyped up when Kazuya is on screen. People were going wild when Vendetta was pulling off these crazy upsets too.

@gethorge 2 года назад

You can very obviously tell that Wadi and Little Z know very little about Ken and Ryu. "How can you die to a shine?" well Kens recovery is actual cheeks in terms of mix ups. Little Z making fun saying he only killed with shoryuken even though it's like one of the best confirms in his kit, like wtf he's playing the character correctly??

@Tetrafirez 2 года назад

while you may be right... imagine being mad about it lol

@ajlecs7932 2 года назад

@@Tetrafirez kinda hard not to be mildly annoyed if you play the characters

@Tetrafirez 2 года назад

@@ajlecs7932 there's getting mildly annoyed but realizing this isn't a serious analysis video and keeping your negativity out of the comments, and then there's what this guy did

@crooker23 2 года назад

Love that every time but 1 they called out a random shoryu it was a whiff punish lol

@jellybean5929 2 года назад

Esam gave us Vens backstory like he’s a street fighter character

@TheFatHyena 2 года назад

"I hate when Kens and Ryus just throw out random shoryus" What else they supposed to do? Up smash??

@ajlecs7932 2 года назад

that’s what i’m saying bruh it’s literally the same thing as other characters throwing out smash attacks 😂

@maxwalton7044 2 года назад

Those Shoryus didn’t look random. They were well timed and placed punishment. He F-smashes to mix up his opponent’s expectations.

@TheFatHyena 2 года назад

@@maxwalton7044 well I didn't need to hear that lol, tell that to Marss

@maxwalton7044 2 года назад

@@TheFatHyena I figured.

@rivalmjd8541 2 года назад

The move is good, what do you expect. Ken in Street Fighter V is honestly no different.

@rycalamo2684 2 года назад

Everyone giving the match a proper analysis: Wadi: 8:59

@scracked6980 2 года назад

im happy ryu is getting recognition as well! i genuinely think he is high tier, but maybe its biasing because ive been a ryu main for years, lol

@Sillylilgrill 2 года назад

ryu pog

@ajlecs7932 2 года назад

as a ryu and ken main as well i also think they’re high tier but not top tier

@a_person172 2 года назад

I think Ryu are Top tier. Broken moves and crazy combos. No one plays him because he’s been buried under the dirt that is Kazuya, Terry, and Ken

@ryubayani1729 2 года назад

@@a_person172 you're right but his recovery is exploitable, so he stays at high tier only.

@lyrics2challenged 2 года назад

Where do you all get high tier from? To me he's mid lol, just does well beating people up when he can get in close. I wouldn't put him above high/top of midtier personally.

@thomascunningham7164 2 года назад

Once again the editor picking all of those juicy Sonic adventure 2 battle tracks and I am all here for it!

@jjbathemeextensions8866 Год назад

Timestamps?

@genesisosuna 2 года назад

I'm surprised they didn't ask if they are top tiers lol

@gj4312 2 года назад

Secret high tiers? High tier at the minimum

@onlinewhy 2 года назад

As someone who started smash with melee, its so weird to hear someone say "ken combo" and not see Marth on the screen.

@rivalmjd8541 2 года назад

And now look what they did to my boy Marth lol

@justaguy4829 2 года назад

Yes they are

@lopezssb9608 2 года назад

Ken is already a high tier character

@kandys9 2 года назад

been saying this since they made him functional

@Patukah1879 2 года назад

i think Terry, Ryu, and ken are high tier and kazuya is honestly top tier. shoto's are busted

@neptune7160 2 года назад

@@Patukah1879 kazuya is the worst, he's the slowest and least consistent. But yes, the others are solid high tiers

@kailitheoz 2 года назад

I have been waiting for Vendetta to hit it big and I'm so glad his time finally came

@gabrielchee8470 2 года назад

6:30 insert SF Ken shoryuken flowchart meme here

@brendanmohareful 2 года назад

I think dying from shine in Ultimate should cost two stocks, personally.

@PuertoRicanAsian 2 года назад

2:07 Little Z, that's not the international mashing gesture. That's uh... something else.

@ScottzillaRaidsAgain Год назад

ESAM is the only person out of all of them that knows what he's talking about when it comes to how vendetta plays.

@Jjjr- 2 года назад

I love how nasb music just started randomly playing

@wolfdragox5563 2 года назад

I thought Ken at least was considered a high tier

@lokks2130 2 года назад

Yes. Ken in particular might be a lot better than I thought, I don't think he's top tier or anything but he's definitely really good. The fact that Kazuya and Terry are still better than him is also legitimately scary.

@smugaladdin8372 2 года назад

Terry for sure but idk about Kazuya. I guess Kazuya is theoretically better than all of them if you play perfectly but in reality that isn't going to happen. 20XX fox vibes imo, and I'm a huge fan of the fgc characters, always root for them. Just my opinion tho so I could very easily be proven wrong.

@heyhi7415 2 года назад

Kazuya kinda bad tbh

@nathanielhertsel4453 2 года назад

Every Evaluation Video ESAM: Fun nerdy stuff and usually knows the matchup Marss: “I could do that, he just did it wrong” Little Z: Complains about anything :3 WaDi: “I wonder how hard Ken’s feet are…” I love this

@professionalretard2547 2 года назад

15:15 I just got an add right there and the first words of the add were "bad habits"

@Sabrefrix 2 года назад

I know I said this before, but diggin the increase in SA2 ost in these vids. The J Senoue guitar be doing me some kinda way

@jeffreysherman8224 2 года назад

I'm enjoying all this Sonic music in the background.

@films54321 2 года назад

I'm surprised it's even a question that they're high tier

@MrHockeyboy2000 2 года назад

these are the best vids on the channel IMO keep it up yall

@OneMindReezy 2 года назад

I just realized u can’t spell Shoryuken without Ryu and Ken

@nathanielhertsel4453 2 года назад

Just like Street Fighter, the shoto’s biggest dmg are in their close combos, that being when they’re right next to you. To fight one, you have to play their game and learn some footsies, because you’re not gonna win just running in hoping to win more interactions. The worst thing to be against a shoto is in disadvantage while directly next to them. That’s when the 30-50% combos come out

@theofmino6180 2 года назад

I remember watching Esam vs Vendetta at a SWT qualifiers thingy, his Ryu destroyed Pika in one game

@crusadrian5010 2 года назад

12:30 WaDi's pause & laugh is golden.

@shinygiratina7743 2 года назад

Everyone else other than Little Z just chilling Little Z: STOP KILLING WITH UP-B

@Blakeadam52 2 года назад

Light was like, man, theres no trip guard in this game!?

@epicgaming6564 2 года назад

Imagine if Ryu had Ken's shoryu and run speed. Absolutely top tier.

@wonderful_whiscash9534 2 года назад

That’s just Ken

@stereng 2 года назад

@@wonderful_whiscash9534 Ken and Ryu are actually quite different, so no it wouldn't be just Ken.

@wonderful_whiscash9534 2 года назад

@@stereng I was mostly joking but tbh that fusion would still be worse than Ken since kens side b is better, the only good thing about Ryu is the command input neutral b and i guess the final smash

@10cesc4. 2 года назад

Can we talk about the drip he’s sporting too? VenDrip. For next Panda video: Panda forces panda team to play shotos.

@alexlovehall7796 2 года назад

As a fighting game player who mains Ryu and Ken in everything this is showing me that these two are viable in Smash. I might have to pick this game up agsin

@robertrecchia3037 2 года назад

High tier? I've gotten auto turn down tilt shoyuken'd too many times to not realize they're a hidden top tier and nobody can change my mind.

@rosestrohm7986 2 года назад

Just dont get caught by it

@masonshabam 2 года назад

Maybe play around it

@Patukah1879 2 года назад

@@masonshabam thats a lot easier said than done sadly

@echo1279 2 года назад

Has anybody else noticed that shoryuken is spelled with Ryu and Ken right next to each other

@speedylinguine 2 года назад

30 seconds in and Wadi already has the bars

@Zorua3 2 года назад

They’re high tier, but it’s not a secret.

@emeraldgiss 2 года назад

Even thought Ryu and Ken are not DLC it still feels like DLC. (Ryu was dlc in smash 4)

@Tojux_ 2 года назад

I don’t think it’s very secret

@chelsmac3922 2 года назад

Little z practiced the pronunciation of the shotos moves before watching this

@DoctorNovakaine 2 года назад

Little Z: "I don't know these characters and I don't play these characters, but by GOD I will flex that I can speak a little Japanese by saying the actual move names just because."

@anthonyfernandez7553 2 года назад

ESAM'S wadi impression is getting better lmao

@ruipratz429 2 года назад

that ryu buff made him viable again its crazy how better he is

@lokks2130 2 года назад

He's actually a genuine problem now, it's insane lol

@ajlecs7932 2 года назад

he was already viable

@SPZ-gv2on 2 года назад

He was viable already, just a solid high tier pick now.

@trapwxrldprxductixns9239 2 года назад

I wish vendetta had showcased his pocket kazuya

@fudzi5971 2 года назад

Wadi's set and against vendetta was the best commentated set in this whole tourney

@Glad8tor21 2 года назад

I understand the idea of disliking the auto turnaround, but at the same time, so many characters in this game attack in MULTIPLE DIRECTIONS. Not only that, they attack multiple times in multiple directions! That is worse than auto turnaround because most of the time those attacks in multiple directions are aerials. Those attacks should also be called auto aim attacks as well.

@Sponsie1000 2 года назад

yeah okay you could argue that an attack that hits both sides at once (like fox downSmash or WiiFitTrainer ftilt etcc) act similar to auto-turnaround because they get to hit you regardless of which side they are facing, but the difference is that with auto-turnaround ALL your moves become able to hit in both directions, where other characters are quite limited in attacks that go both ways. Auto-turnaround also lets you turn around mid-mash, like when they're mashing down-tilt, whereas other character's attacks that hit both ways usually arent that spammable :]

@Glad8tor21 2 года назад

@@Sponsie1000Firstly, you cannot argue that all of the FGC character's attacks are auto attacks. That is simply not true. That argument is invalid just by saying that. However, for the sake of making this interesting, it is to my understanding you are speaking about the Jabs, Up-Tilts and Down-tilts that are the spammable auto aim moves. Correct me if I am wrong please. Now those moves are mostly spammable with their very limited range. The weakness in those moves is their limited range. In comparison, NAIRS that attack in every direction have more range and are significantly more spammable than any of the relevant auto aim moves from the FGC characters. Mostly because you can approach and escape with these NAIRs! Those moves cover significantly more options than say an Up-Tilt or Down-Tilt.

@Sponsie1000 2 года назад

@@Glad8tor21 okay l agree that me saying that Every one of their moves auto-attack is an exaggeration,, since they dont turn around in the air those moves require aim. Thanks for inferring that l meant their tilts/normals yea hmm, well wouldnt it be fair in this comparison to consider the range of an turnaround-attack the sum of doing the move left and right? So for downtilt for instance, that would be a hitbox from a leg to the left all the way to a leg to the right. idk if you think thats a fair way to compare them, but since they can automatically turn around they effectively cover both sides of them at the same time, so to truly see/compare them as auto-aim moves l think it's fair game. As for the comments you make about nairs, l dont know if l agree with that, could you think of some examples? l was thinking moves like Luigi-Nair and diddy's Nair, but idk if l would call those moves spammable since they last 40~50 frames in total (plus starting/ending a jump l suppose), whereas ryu/ken's downtilt take only 14 frames in total. You could literally do 3 downtilts before diddy kong can do a second nair, so in frames their tilts are quite more spammable. You bring up that other character's auto-aim moves have more general utility, which l guess is true in some senses since you can move around more while doing an aerial than during a tilt, but since ryu/ken's moves are so much shorter they don't have to stay put for as long,, if you look at the ~45 frame-window characters need for their all-around-nair, ryu/ken can d-tilt, move around for 15 frames, d-tilt again, or do something else other than d-tilt again,, my point is they can do way more in the same time-period other characters need to finish their move, and they can use that time to cover whatever option they want with any of their moves. Shouldnt that count for something?

@lokks2130 2 года назад

You mean the spinning nair things like Palu and Byleth? Cuz autoturn around is cringe but imo those are just as bad, I'm in agreement lol.

@mitchellemery8455 2 года назад

It's not auto turn, its a tech you have to learn when you play shoto's at top teir. You do the regular input, plus opposite direction. you actually see Vendetta do this by accident as Ryu against Roy at 20:05.

@haggis_insanis5713 2 года назад

I have been waiting for this video

@burnpisces7733 2 года назад

Marss out here complaining about Ume-Shoryu’s

@DANCERcow 2 года назад

I love how this question only is considered when an unlikely character makes top 8! lmao edit:

@Sancnea 2 года назад

Vendetta didn't win the tournament though?

@DANCERcow 2 года назад

What did he place?

@Sancnea 2 года назад

@@DANCERcow 7th

@DANCERcow 2 года назад

@@Sancnea fine hahahaha Happy Now? 🤣

@Sancnea 2 года назад

@@DANCERcow ?

@Xenowolf8 2 года назад

This might sound like a random idea for a video, but can we have the Pandas play Mario Party sometimes?

@tetrakarn5975 2 года назад

Secretly? I thought people already thought they were high tier

@raulperez9258 2 года назад

i like how both little z and wadi said the ken player should just SD another stock for getting shine spiked

@Imstillhangintherethankgod 2 года назад

I gotta say: Hatless Terry has some sauce

@camerondean5087 2 года назад

Considering how often people ask if they are high tear I’m gonna go ahead and say yes they are high tear

@casey_alexander 2 года назад

Vendetta looking like EX flowchart ken

@marin9412 2 года назад

… weren’t they already considered high tier?

@Patukah1879 2 года назад

i thought they were too

@Contrary22 2 года назад

Objectively. Lol. Nobody ever said "Shotos Mid" without purely trolling. "Pre buff Ken doesn't count because wtf was that? You didn't pretest the game before you released it Sakurai and friends?"

@nilehowell5382 2 года назад

where is the wadi "ring the bell" maybe i missed it on this one lol

@flinch6707 2 года назад

These reactions perfectly encapsulte what makes the general FGC get annoyed by Smash players. Not that I have any room to speak, though, I play traditional fighters as well as Smash.

@Rayalz 2 года назад

What is the page Esam uses for the frames and hitbox?

@TaLlFrEaK7593 2 года назад

Ultimate Frame Data 🤷🏼‍♂️

@yusuf8938 2 года назад

14:37 How is reacting to a jump off the ledge, and anti airing an aerial, a "random shoryu" ?

@nimcie8377 2 года назад

Smash players love to hate on anything they’re not good at

@ryandean5962 2 года назад

What website was ESAM on? When he was looking at ken active frames?

@DeadArizen 2 года назад

Ultimate frame data is the site my G - it’s op and has every character

@ryandean5962 2 года назад

@@DeadArizen good looks

@nikel3561 2 года назад

the shotos decent just hard to play

@fishwoz17 2 года назад

“Hard to play” they have auto turn around

@nikel3561 2 года назад

@@fishwoz17 inputs my friend, inputs

@sevaplotnichenko51 2 года назад

@@fishwoz17 inputs+hard to approach with them

@Patukah1879 2 года назад

they aren't hard to play honestly, people over exaggerate how hard they are to play, the inputs can be learnt in a few hours in training mode and their playstyle is pretty simple. Just wait for the opponent to throw out a move then get a combo off of it every time.

@nimcie8377 2 года назад

@@fishwoz17 I’m sure you must be insane with them then?

@crazydwarfhalo Год назад

Love WaDi. Main reason I watch Panda. Never change my man.

@MatthewDelmar 2 года назад

“I hate when Ken plays just run-up random shoryu” Imagine how the SF players who’ve been dealing with online Kens since SFIV feel lol

@awesomeking9915 2 года назад

Me want panda guys vs my amiibos

@aguchamp7766 2 года назад

I hope this doesn't come off as dismissive of Vendetta, but Fox is one of Ken's better matchups. Fox HAS to challenge Ken's shield with unsafe landing aerials, which is what Ken wants out of any matchup.

@lokks2130 2 года назад

He doesn't really have to challenge his shield with aerials, and even when he does he's usually safe most of the time. Fox just needs to utilize his movement surgically in this mu and it isn't terrible. Probably even.

@afternoonz1126 Год назад

Light demolishes most people even playing bad mus though

@LeeZilla2013 2 года назад

Watching Vendetta play Ken makes me want to play Street Fighter 3 3rd Strike

@Nekotaku_TV 2 года назад

What? Secretly? They obviously are...

@ttv.De_Sgusting 2 года назад

Ken is overlooked

@Sanic_Hegehog 2 года назад

Before the video begins, let me have you know that as a shoto main it's my time to shine!

@THGnat 2 года назад

Do a video on jejajeja a raw kirby

@lazypaladin 2 года назад

How many goats do I have to sacrifice to have Wadi's Voice?! Also Vendetta is your mom's favourite smash player, all the fighting shoto characters 👌 love to see it.

@donaldcheezits438 Год назад

Man literally shimmied fox

@MungusGamer5000 2 года назад

Music at 17:55?

@jadenstewart8295 2 года назад

Esam's almost better at saying "Ring the bell!" than Wadi is lol

@OneMindReezy 2 года назад

Ha 😐

@christophervalles8322 2 года назад

I cringed every time little z talked about shoryu kills and then watched Light flick the c stick up

@fupalover 2 года назад

Vendetta adapted to Goblins mashing and Goblin kept mashing.

@nunoarmond3973 2 года назад

Not really a secret they're high tier lmfao

@retrored 2 года назад

As someone who plays anime fighters, 21:10 is pretty funny to me

@damienlee4992 2 года назад

That donkey kick moment was very nice ryu fireballs will always be better then ken in any fighting games even smash.

@namelessdragon330 2 года назад

how have they not done a Ridley episode yet? Creepooba's been tearing ass, Mezcaul just beat Glutonny for beebus' sake

@emmettshaw967 2 года назад

Not even gonna mention Ikan

@vitoroliveira8658 2 года назад

Could you guys make a vídeo where Esam, Marss and Wadi react to heeew's "insert smash bros game" is broken?, i would love to see they reaction on how janky smash games were before ultimate.