Don't know why they are even considered echo fighters. Their whole gameplan is different. Ken wanting to get in your opponent a face and combo them, while Ryu wants to zone you out and then push you away when you get close
In Ken's tralier they said he was really only an echo fighter because original he was a clone of ryu. Since the alpha series ken plays nothing like Ryu
...Because they still have nearly the same attack animations with the same general functions. They just have different properties & effects with them. They should've gone the Street Fighter 5 route & made Ken WAY more different.
They don’t only have different movesets either, they play totally different too. Ryu is a hardcore zoner, almost purely defensive when played optimally. Ken is a mix between bait and punish and rushdown, moreso the former
Like 30 seconds for both. Daisy's hurtbox is shorter but wider, Richer down B does aura damage (kills red Pikmin) but Simon's does fire (sets off explosives). That's it.
I would have said, “because they didn’t want to include a unique 2nd character from a third-party series”, but then Sephiroth happened Really makes Shadow’s exclusion THAT much more strange
JC Manalili I still think that’s why because Ken was the “original echo” so Sakurai thought it’d be weird to call him a semi clone. Sephiroth was released/planned for Smash years later.
It’s just kinda weird that they prioritized Castlevania and Final Fantasy before, you know, Sonic and Mega Man (literally the series with the two most requested non-Nintendo characters for Smash)
Fun fact, Ryu has gone through development He was kind of an impatient ass hole in the Alpha games, solely focused on his personal growth. He mellowed out as time went on
@@yoshinpixels9924 finally! People going "Ryu is bland lol! xd" Never actually paid attention to the Alpha games. Before, all he ever cared about was winning that's why he let the SnH loose after losing to Sagat, recently, his goal is just to fight the best since that way he can learn even from winning or losing.
Ken: "Hey Ryu, can I have the last slice of that pizza?" Ryu: "Sure y-wait a minute. Oh ha-ha. Nice try. You almost get me there." Ken: "What are you talking about?" Ryu: "...Oh, never mind." Ken: "Can I have the pizza?" Ryu: "Sure you can. AW DANG IT!!"
The reason why they're considered echo fighters is because of their history. Ken started off as a copy of Ryu, so it ends up making sense in the end on why they made them so similar and different at the same time
@@whatnamelol1835 By that logic, Luigi should be an echo fighter then but he clearly isn't listed as one. Just because they were clones at the beginning doesn't mean they should be considered 1 now.
@@whatnamelol1835 I'm sorry to be blunt but if you think Ken has stayed the same since the beginning then you clearly don't know anything about Street Fighter. Ken has seen a lot of changes and improvements over the years and at this point he's very different to play than Ryu is despite both being a shoto. At this point the only 3 moves both have are Shoryuken, Hurricane Kick, and Hadoken which even those are presented and function very differently. Ken shouldn't be an echo in Smash, simple as.
The only reason they are echo fighters is because they are both Shotos. And it also references the fact that Ken is the most iconic fighting game clone (tied with Sub-Zero). Also a little tip to get a perspective on the characters: - Ryu is for Keep-Away and KO power. Focusing in Hadoukens and small combos that push away the opponent. - Ken: Focuses on pure rushdown and pressure. KO’ing only during combos.
I feel Ryu and Ken are better examples of what an Echo Fighter *should* be, beyond just "almost exactly the same but with a different costume", like Richter, Dark Samus, and Daisy. For example, what I'd like from a Proto Man echo of Mega Man: Passive shield (like Link's), recoil on Proto Buster shots (like Pichu), and some of Mega Man's custom specials from Smash 4 (Shadow blade, Ice Slasher, Danger Wrap, Tornado Hold).
Well, there are no true echo fighters. Dark Samus has a different hitbox because of the levitation animation that Samus doesn't have. Peach and Daisy have different poses so they have different hitboxes as well. And Richters Down Special has Aura unlike Simon's which is just a normal flame, and is the same no matter how much damage he takes. Edit: Someone reminded me of tipper for Marth and Lucina. Thx for that.
@@Ahahashir And how often do those minor differences come into play? Not often. They might as well not be there in the first place. Those guys are just glorified skins.
@@eattheboard1684 It kinda does matter IF and WHEN since that's the only thing differentiating them. If you're not fighting Link (Holy Water properties effects the Remote Bomb) or Olimar (properties effect Steve the Red Pikmin), there's literally no difference between the Belmonts. And the very minute hurtbox differences between the Princesses isn't relevant enough to warrant picking one over the other, something I can even say about the Pits despite only really having 2 major differences. If it's not happening often enough to warrant being there, then there's no reason for it to have been there in the first place.
@@sp4de_btd899 Yes but see that's the point. They have differences, albeit small ones. many people ask "what's the difference?" And I think a video at least confirms how similar they are
It’s interesting seeing the smash community interpret street fighter characters and mechanics. Ryu has more health, Ken has always been faster. He specializes in the shoryu and ryu gets the fireball super. (I was surprised that ken got a shakunetsu in sfv) Ken’s overhead is a kick, ryu has his can opener. The bottom line is ryu and ken have such a good move set you could put them in any fighting game and they will do well. Having street fighter fundamentals in your game ensures you’ll be pretty well prepared for almost any other fighter.
@@kirolex1919 technically Ken was with Chun li but left her for Fame, the thing not the person, Chun li has a thing for Ryu but Ryu is too focused on training
It's nice to finally watch one of these because I actually was very curious about what their differences were. I knew about one difference in regards to a certain move that had KO power with Ryu but not with Ken, but I didn't know what the other differences were besides the final smashes.
Really good video, I didn't know all of these differences. Personally I think Ken edges out Ryu in this game because of the amount of combos and mixups he is able to do along with his shuryuken being an really good kill option. I've definitely noticed how different their hadokens are as Ryu's are way better imo because of speed changes and power. I guess it depends on your fighting style preference but I just feel like Ken has a lot more options because of his speed and because his moves don't have such launch back whereas with Ryu you aren't going to be able to get more than two or three combos out of it. Both have AWESOME shield pressure though.
Nah Isabelle has different smash attacks and special moves. The only thing related to villager is their final smash and Aerials which makes her a semi or pseudo clone.
It would be cool to get a comparison for Mario and Luigi with their various differences. I know Luigi has changed a lot since the first Smash Bros, but it would be neat to see how far he has changed in Smash Ultimate know that he still shares some moves with his brother albeit with different properties.
The funny thing is, these two, while having similar special moves, have been different like this since Street Fighter 2 Turbo. Only SF1 and SF2WW had these two play the exact same with no differences.
I am glad I watched this video. Honestly seems like it could be the first one to watch if your just learning the basics on every move for either character. I’m just not understanding which of them is the better one.
Everytime i play him in Ultimate, my sm4sh ryu main's soul cries. Not everything was better back then, i like what they buffed in Ultimate like tatsu and the ability to special cancel with almost all of his moves but aw maaaan i miss walling with back air
@@XaaviieerH That would be Luigi, but that was only in 64. Even then, he had his differences like a fireball unaffected by gravity and that sweetspot Super Jump Punch as well as the classic Luigi Dash Attack.
I think the first hit is the activation hit box, so the person can’t airdodge out during the animation. The attack itself does 3, but has 4 on the combo meter. Ken’s is the same (look at the combo meter during the final smash section for ken)
The main difference for me is that I'm good with ken and garbage with ryu. Also ken is way cooler. Jokes aside I'm really happy with how different Ken and Ryu are from each other. They made them seem like way different fighters but still having the same basic moves with minor tweaks, and they're both really fun to play no matter your skill with them in my opinion.
It’s interesting going over these individually on paper Ryu just seems better, but in execution Ken tends to be the preferred of the two for competitive play
Esams latest video puts Ryu above Ken, normally it's the other way around. He says because having better range tools is not to be underestimated, and having another KO option (tatsu) is very good. I suppose Ken has crescent kick into f/d-smash but it's a lot more difficult to pull off because the percent has to be within a narrow range and they have to be near ledge. In that way it's similar to fast falling up air into f-smash with Terry, and given his multitude of KO option it's basically never ever used. Which should say something about the skill level difference needed. It's also worth mentioning Kens' shield break attack is half circle into holding A, while Ryus' is just f-tilt lmao. If you have an interest in the fighting characters I'd recommend starting with Terry, then Ryu and then Ken.
Also some additional notes as someone who plays both at a high level, Ryu’s up air is just as good as comboing as kens, both shoryukens are just as strong, Kens might even be slightly stronger if the opponent doesn’t DI properly (speaking from experiance). Kens roundhouse despite being the same move as Ryus roundhouse (strong far hab) has a more disjointed hit box and an invincible leg making it better. Also kens nair doesn’t have less landing lag than ryu’s they both have 5 frames of landing lag, but additionally, Ryu’s nair is -1/-2 on shield while kens is -2. Kens nair is a better combo tool but ryu’s but ryu is slightly safer on shield. Also not as notable, but when comboing our of down smash, ken can cancel combo into shoryuken easier than ryu. People can also fall out of kens shoryuken as a result of it being a multi hit. That’s all i can add off the top of my head, will edit more if i find more to add.
@@hollisjohns1513 yeah! I was messing with Ken in training mode and thought to myself what if his final smash works the same way as in his original games. And low and behold it works!
