14:24 These participants views align with mine on those series of questions regarding genetics vs social being main motivator in feelings for gay and trans.
14:40 Peter, Great question which should be used moe frequently in these S.E. exercises....... it could weed out the secret Wokeness residing deep within some people 👍 👍 👍
As a lifelong lefty it embarrasses me that people I assumed were highly intelligent could be so thoroughly taken in. This issue has opened my eyes in SO many ways. I better understand how bad things happened in the past.
This phenomena is actually far, far past what I thought would have been achievable. If you had told me 10 or 15 years ago that people could be propagandized into vehemently supporting their own childrens' sexual mutilation, I'd have said that's one thing that would never happen.
This activity might be better done individually. I really felt these participants were influenced by one another the longer they played and became more familiar with each other. There’s something innate in most humans to want to fit in if they sense some commonality. It was evident with these three.
Half of these people that support the breast chopping simultaneously believe the same children should not be allowed to go in a tanning bed or pierce their nose.
@haircutdeluxe If you are convinced gender dysforia is a real issue and the future of the child might depend on the right chichurgical treatment, then that is not an unsensible stance per se.
@@Mesamedusa treating a psychological condition with the cosmetic use of medical and surgical procedures which result in sterility and lifelong medical care is like treating a software problem with a hardware fix, which destroys both over time.
@@Gingerblaze And you might be surprised I tend to agree with that. And trans women probably don't belong in women sports etc. ... But... I have seen examples that seem to point to the opposite, I don't know if a general rule applies, this is a complicated debate and I am no medical expert. So I try to maintain an open mind and stay away from the moral highground. And certainly not be scornfull, as many are in the comments. If they understood something about the purpose of these kinds of interviews, they would take another attitude.
@@JagadguruSvamiVegananda I hate to admit it but it seems to me only the traditional conservatives can put this lunacy to a halt, because most liberals are too tolerant and splintered to give any meaningful opposition. Regression is far from ideal but I guess it is a little better than the "progress" the west had undergone in these past 5-10 years.
@@excalibro8365 Respected British anthropology professor, Dr. Edward Dutton, has demonstrated that “LEFTISM” is due to genetic mutations, caused by poor breeding strategies. 🤡 To put it simply, in recent decades, those persons who exhibit leftist traits such as egalitarianism, feminism, gynocentrism, socialism, multiculturalism, transvestism, homosexuality, perverse morality, and laziness, have been reproducing at rates far exceeding the previous norm, leading to an explosion of insane, narcissistic SOCIOPATHS in (mostly) Western societies.
@@excalibro8365, Respected British anthropology professor, Dr. Edward Dutton, has demonstrated that “LEFTISM” is due to genetic mutations caused by poor breeding strategies. 🤡 To put it simply, in recent decades, those persons who exhibit leftist traits such as egalitarianism, feminism, gynocentrism, socialism, multiculturalism, transvestism, homosexuality, perverse morality, and laziness, have been reproducing at rates far exceeding the previous norm, leading to an explosion of insane, narcissistic SOCIOPATHS in (mostly) Western societies.
No. The answer is NO. It's not up to anyone's parents to decide which parts of their body can be "removed". The level of abuse in this is incomprehensible.
I'd love the ask them, "If the parents decide that they've found the right 35 year old man to marry their 12 year old daughter to, and have sex with, is that okay?" He's rich and can give her a good life. Isn't it the parents' choice, after all? That's an insane and real practice in some places.
hmmm. cant work out if you agree that parents should be there to safeguard the kids - or if you agree that some parents can consent to removing breasts of kids 🤔🤣
@@Odesai1I'm assuming he means that it is morally wrong to mutilate children, no matter if the parents or child gives consent. In my personal opinion, now that we know that the vast majority of people with gender dysphoria as a child turn out to be gay or have autism, it is simply best no harm practice to not mutilate their body with irreversible damage.
In the trans debate, the taller lady said, 'Well people are gay' . . . What has that got to do with the Trans issue? People who are gay aren't requesting surgery to change themselves!
It's so frustrating that normal gay people are lumped in with this ideology. Genderism has nothing to do with sexuality. Being gay does not require any surgeries or cross sex hormones, name changes, controlling others language about you, forcing yourself into places you don't belong, denial of reality, it doesn't require any action at all. And it requires no validation/believing from others. Being gay just requires a person to exist and experience attraction exclusively to the same sex. And gay people won widespread tolerance in the West by assimilating and showing people that we just want to live normal lives and do normal things just like straight people. But the huge push of gender ideology and queer theory is all about pushing the boundaries and rejecting normalcy at all costs.
She wasn't saying it was the same thing! She was using it as an example of certain ways of thinking being innate, and that being innate, it is not a choice they have made. THAT was the point.
A penis is not a vital body part like a limb is. It's a silly comparison. I've been doing fine without my penis for the past two years, and I'm glad I had that cycoplean demon removed. Granted I'm 49 years old, so the situation is slightly different for me, but that doesn't necessarily mean my opinion is invalid. Hell, I would support intra-gestational bottom surgery (if it were even possible, and if the fetus' consent could hypothetically be given).
@@mmhmm9271If you want your penis gone as a 47 yr old man and am willing to pay for it, go for it. I don’t get what that has with tax payers/insurance paying for self-mutilation of children.
@@dafunkmonster tbh it reminds me of the anorexia/bulimia "craze" during the late 90s. All the girls are into it. Strange how it looks like social contagion. It doesn't even need a comorbidity.
@@dafunkmonsterdepression and anxiety alone do not cause bodily dissociation to the degree of wanting to have body parts removed. Borderline and antisocial personality disorders do though.
@@katieandnick4113 True, unless you get to a doctor and they tell you it's because you have dysphoria. All your mental issues can be explained by that and we have a miracle cure, just go spend and hour with the surgeon. It would take years to treat the underlying causes.
@@katieandnick4113the impression it gives off is "so you're depressed, have you tried cutting off your gentiles?" But more appropriately similar to lobotomies. They were controversial in their brief popularity, ppl didn't understand enough about the brain to clearly articulate why it could be bad, but never the less it became a fashionable practice with irreversible damage, that ppl knew they didn't know enough about.
What ever happened to learning to love your body, flaws and all? Learning to love yourself is a journey we all need to have. We all do not have money to create the ideal body we think we should have. I think it is typical as a young person to look at your own body and seeing flaws and imperfections and it is a seasoned mind to see those flaws and appreciate them.
You're ignorant. Mental disorders are treated different ways depending on the type of disorder it is. For some disorders, you cannot simply "choose to love your body." That's not going to make your brain not broken.
This is why I believe it’s so vital to not allow a trans diagnosis or treatment without specifically gender dysphoria. And no medicalisation ought to be granted to minors period, or indeed anyone who hasn’t undergone comprehensive therapy to uncover and address any trauma or mental health issue with could be the cause, with medicalisation only being offered as a last resort where all else has failed.
"Its not her right to stop them or encourage them" Ok so you want your children to raise themselves... i guess they should pick their own diet and their own bedtime too.
💯 adults refusing to adult, leaving kids to bring themselves up. Kids actually crave and thrive when they are given boundaries. When did adults stop knowing that?
Peter, when talking about trans, PLEASE DEFINE TRANS. Participants and viewers need to know that it ranges from people who say "i am trans" full stop, through to people who cut body parts off. They also need to know that none of these people have changed sex
Agreed, I would struggle to know where to stand on many of these questions about trans because the term is not being defined. E.g. What does it mean when you say trans can/should be fixed? I might say yes, I might say no depending on the meaning of the word “trans” as it is being used in that sentence. We need to know what we’re all talking about otherwise we just talk past each other.
@@Pneumanon I think it says everything that no one made the distinction between gender dysphoria, social contagion and Autogynephilia, when this question was asked. Any person well informed would have started the definition themselves, to explain their answer. If people don‘t know there are differences, what level of understanding will a mere definition bring them?
And the lack of clarity adds to the misinformation around the topic, thinking trans means "the good kind" or whatever and not the stats of how many opportunists there are, how many detransitioners etc
@@lynnm6413Well working toward a shared definition is likely to bring these different assumptions out into the discussion to be examined. I agree with you on the three distinctions you made- the underlying motivations behind transition change the implications of the discussion quite a lot.
This is a good demonstration of how people generally have what seem like reasonable stand points on issues that at surface level appear relatively innocuous, but are at an intricate level profoundly damaging to people and to society. For example, the personal testimony of trans widows (women who's husband's decided to take on a female persona and role in the relationship) and learning about the trauma they and the children of these men suffer, probably would have drastically altered their answers to that particular question. These are good people who've been somewhat persuaded that a person can be born into the wrong body, or genuinely operate as the opposite sex in some way. Unfortunately people who believe in absurdities can be lead to condoning or commiting atrocities. Such as chemically stunting healthy child development or removing the healthy breasts of a vulnerable teenage girls. Dark times indeed. I hope the exposure of corruption, mal practice, lies and criminality of WPATH makes a difference in our battle against this insanity.
Great point, I felt she often chose politeness and kindness and didn’t really have the big picture. I hope she leaves this session and begins to read bit more and maybe start watching a few talks from Helen Joyce.
That is an interesting take, I have considered myself pretty progressive for most of my adult life and still do. It seems like society has gone too far with these issues though. I think it is like a pendulum and we are at the brink of starting to go back the other way. The extremes at the other end are not something I am looking forward to either though.
@@dafunkmonster I tend to rarely go with the “strongly” answers as I know there is always a potential for me being wrong. I feel like if you get stuck in a rigid mindset of absolutes, you are less willing to listen to new data and evidence that contradicts your preconceived notions. This is just my take on it.
Similarly, if those advocating for children to have access to puberty blockers and surgery watched several testimonials from detransitioners. That material is gut wrenching and heartbreaking.
The very nature of the claim that you can be born in the “wrong body” implies the existence of some kind of soul. If you believe this, that is absolutely fine… but let’s not then claim that this is a conversation about biology and therefore it is a condition that demands a physical treatment to your current body. Your brain is part of your body. You cant be born with the “wrong brain” because that brain is made up of the same cells as the rest of your body. What people mean to say is that they feel body dismorphia or discomfort in their body. Im what other similar circumstances do we treat this by actually physically altering the body?
This new format is amazing! Trying to guess why a person holds a position OR providing a strong argument for anothers position unlocks an uncommonly used form of empathy.
I’ve watched several of these “street epistemology” videos, and (imho) it’s terrific. This way of approaching an issue takes most of the heat out of each individual’s opinions, which lets people actually *talk* to each other. Without rational dialogue, I’m not sure how minds can be changed. Well done.
I almost couldn‘t finish the video, I got so mad… what makes it worse, she seemed well adjusted, no blue hair or septum piercing…ye completely off her meds on that question!
Hey Peter 💙 I love this new style of clearly having your participants guess what others are thinking. And a big thanks to everyone who ever participated 🙌
Sadly the psychologists are afraid to speak up. Personally, I think if this contunues to go on, a psychologist should have to sign off on the child hormones and surgery for a patient under 25. The psych and surgeon should risk their license and possibly jail time if a detransitioning occurs in their patients lifetime. We'll see how confident they are then.
@@sully_n_dubs I am a rational left wing psychologist and i am against affirmation. A young mind is too easily molded and influenced. I try to help them getting used to their body they are born with. It takes many sessions to find the cause for their wish to transition. The human mind wants to go the easy way all the time. It saves energy. If the society around you affirms you in your believe to transition your mind automatically pushes you in this direction even more. Only a small percentage of my clients transition in the end. Most of them just discover that they are gay or lesbian. And some become crossdresser which is socially not accepted but harmless in comparison to a gender transition. And those who stll persist on beeing born in the wrong body i send to another colleague who helps them with their transition. And thats fine too. I don't judge them because they are really those who are born in the wrong body. But its a very very small percentage.
@@Marcus_Berger1701 That's encouraging. Just from what i have read, it just seems so cruel that a girl for instance that likes to rough it up with the boys is suggested with the current teaching in school and online that they could be born in the wrong body. That this is a normative condition. I see kids playing in the neighborhood and hope that they don't entertain this thinking. Maybe they are just a masculine girl (I grew up with some that played hockey with the boys and 20 years later were straight, beautiful, awesome people. Just not stereotypical. Then some that ended up lesbian, but same thing, just beautiful, awesome people. I can't imagine the torment that a kid would be put through, if led to believe that they could be born in the wrong body, as they are trying to figure out why they are different. I understand that these people do exist but it seems like the current teaching could be creating more people to consider this thinking. What is your opinion of Jamie Reed's testimony about what was happening in St. Louis and the countries of England and Sweden in how they are recently approached this practice?
@@inpugnaveritaas The point is that nobody is able to consent to that act. The desire to harm oneself, especially in such a brutal, irreversible way, is evidence that a person is not thinking rationally and not in their right mind. We don't gouge the eyes out of people who have a sick fascination with being blind. This is no different.
@@utah_koidragon7117 that’s not accurate. You don’t have the right to decide for other people. Even the decision as an adult don’t make the person change sex, but that is for the adult to live with the regret from their own act. Children, simply cannot consent to such intervention.
@@keycuz or a gipsy. They tend to do this. 4-5 kids by mid 20s, not uncommon. But that's not the point. The point is that raising 2 kids doesn't make you an adult.
Peter, I really appreciate how you stepped up you ethical questions. Now its time to use these more complex ones, on different demographics. Thanks a million again for doing this.
Of course. Thought stems from the brain, the brain apart of the body. It’s all one. If your thoughts are rejecting your body then it’s clearly an inability to love yourself and thus needs to be “fixed” to love themselves
I don’t think she actually has reasoned out why she holds e opinion she does, which is why she seems to be unsure and thinking things through on the fly.
Men do not have vaginas Women do not have penises Non binary is a complete joke Transitioning children is a profound child abuse. Lying about biology to children is against their human rights to an education. Coercive control of speech is not part of a democratic society Changes made for less than one percent by excluding the 99 percent is not inclusion. Rights provided cannot be made by rights removed.
I noticed that especially with the tall lady. It seems like she knows ponytail lady from before and just wants to disagree with any point she makes. I think that is a very interesting part of Epistemology. Who do we not want to be standing with in our opinions.
"They have" you mean humans. It doesn't matter left or right. Everyone is illogical unless they specifically work on getting rid of these human behaviors and actively work on building a proper framework. But 99% of people do not do this. I'd bet my whole life's savings you are the same.
I love the ‘guess what they wrote’ part of this conversation. It will help people understand each position and communicate. I don’t agree with transing kids, but I like the concept of opposite sides trying to make understand or see their perspective.
Yeah these ppl are CONSTANTLY applying double standard and double thinking... "I was born a boy but I think I am a girl"...perfectly fine, you clearly have a gendered soul inside that is incongruent with your physical body...go with it! "I am super-thin almost a skeleton, but I think I am obese"...OH NO, something must be wrong in your head, we need to apply immediate psychological therapy!
I literally gave the same example yesterday! So, they go to the psychologist and say “I feel fat” and the psychologist AFFIRMS them, then instead of exploring the issues they are given diet pills immediately, and asked if they want to be referred for surgery.
The structure of this debate is really cool and I appreciate it. Trying to think from the other person’s point of view-especially trying to come up with the best opposing argument to your own. Super awesome, takes next-level thinking rather than just talking at each other.
makes me laugh when some people in the past wanted to sabbotage the whole debate experiment from being able to take place like just openly discussing a subject was taboo in itself.
They're lying. "Trans" is a threat-narrative. "Go along with it, say what we demand you say, else be called a terrible person and possibly have your life destroyed." So people are lying because they are under threat. (And they are cowards.)
I was only a little surprised. But I felt it deserved an important follow up question. “ I would be comfortable with my 12 year old daughter in a shower stall/locker room with a trans identified intact male, or any male for that matter.“ Go! I also didn’t quite believe them. It felt not well thought out or honest. For example, I am pretty chill about nudity and swimming nude with males and females at a beach is no biggie for me. So one would think what’s the difference to be in a change room with men. But it is a very different dynamic and I would feel affronted to have men in a woman’s protected space. Absolutely never!
I think of it as not being in control of who you love vs having total control in how you present yourself. I don't judge someone for the former. I do for the latter.
@@williamsaling9648 I don't have issues with any of these persons individually (generally speaking), my main issue is governments lying about "sex change" and "gender". There should be no such thing as FAKE SEX government id. Federal and provincial vital statistics should NOT replace SEX with "gender". "gender" is no more than a faith, a religion, as as such, belongs alongside religious questions on forms (if religion is even present on government forms, where it generally isn't).
It makes me sad that many of those girls identifying as trans in their teens are actually gay and might otherwise know that if they weren’t groomed and encouraged to identify as trans.
@@dafunkmonsteror for anyone else to collude in your fantasy life. Gay men and lesbians just wanted to do their own thing, not force others to capitulate or face mob wrath imo
14-year-old: “hey mom can I get a face tattoo?” Mother: “absolutely not! “ 14 year old: “I think I might be a boy because I saw a TikTok video, can I get a double mastectomy? “ Mother: “of course you can you’re your own person“. This is generational madness.
All those thousands of poor teenagers living without modified bodies just ten years ago. We have made such medical strides haven't we. Welcome to the dark ages.
This video was very well done, and it was quite interesting to hear the contrasting viewpoints. I especially enjoyed when they had to guess why the other person had an opposing opinion. And appreciated that they remained civil. 😬
Really enjoying the subtle changes you made to the activity with the white boards when participants are on opposite sides of a claim. Seems to force the extremists to empathize more with the other participants. More thoughtful discussions and eases the tensions from earlier videos
I don't know if I'll ever understand how people think "being born in the wrong body" is a real thing. These are terribly vulnerable people, and we're affirming their delusions.
I dont understand how people can entertain any question on if a child can consent. It doesn't matter what it is is, under the age of 18 no you cannot. I dont even need to hear the full question, as soon as you say consent and under 18 in the same sentence, the answer will always be no.
This is fascinating. At no point was science mentioned, and what we know about the human brain, which isn't fully developed until the mid to late 20s. I wonder why people think their opinion supersedes what science has shown us. It leads me to believe that people don't know what science's function is. It's a humble practice at its root. Trust the scores of brain studies that reiterate it.
This is like saying 17 YO: 1. Can decide to have sex with someone in their 30's. 2. Drink/do drugs 3. Enter into a legal binding contract 4. Get married 5. Get a tattoo 6. Gamble. Think about it folks.
Thank you Peter for these street epistemology episodes. I miss the days of civil discussion in the long form. Cable news is unwatchable because it's like 7 year olds fight. These are articulate, thoughtful people put in a position where they can voice their opinions completely and without being shouted down.
@@DKREALFEELthat’s part of the problem. Many homosexual children are being told they are trans based upon their preferences/interests, and lots “know” being gay is “bad” so they lean into trans as it appears to offer a solution. The phrase being used is “Transing the gay away” and it’s horrific.
@@angelelida4680 ehh it’s all bad. We won’t find happiness in our sexuality. Straight, gay, trans, or otherwise. Sex is sex. We don’t need to identify with the type we like.
@@DKREALFEEL when it comes to the hyper-identification and creation of inflate subtypes just to gain a sense of belonging or to over-categorise what otherwise could just be organic, I completely agree. As I see it, there is only homosexual, heterosexual and bisexual and the rest are made up only as compensation for ever-expanding gender ideology and confusion. On that latter point, the continual artificial creation of new categories only increases division and separateness, and either pigeonholes people into categories they feel unable to escape from once advertised (causing inner tension and potentially distress relating to inner conflicts of belief and/or concerns of social reflection), or else they are fundamentally meaningless. None of this increases happiness, but is likely to increase stress and potentially worse. This said, homosexuality is empirically evidenced, and I’m very concerned that many people who are naturally homosexual are being caught up in the idea this is evidence for being trans. Ergo, instead of accepting themselves and finding their own path, they are being medically funnelled into irreversible medicalisation, resulting in actual gender dysphoria and life-long complications inc. mental health and social fallout. Compounding this, is the social implication that this feeds into the idea homosexuality is “wrong”, and the explanation for it is not diversity in sexual orientation, but a large proportion of people being “born into the wrong body”. Arguably this “transing the gay away” phenomena could be looked upon as a genocide or at least in practice the result is a sterilisation of the homosexual community, and those are serious concerns worth examining and if proven true, to be acknowledged and course-corrected.
I cant believe everyone strongly agreed that they would feel comfortable in a locker room with someone of the opposite sex. There wasnt even a specification that they were trans, just that they were intact. How would any woman be totally OK with some random straight guy in their changing room? That's absurd to me
These conversations are super interesting, and I love the questions about their place and people moving after being questioned and rethinking. I'm curious how held back some of these answers are because their faces are being show and they're worried about ramifications of their answers socially.
@@slimerone it’s odd how accepting it’s become. You shouldn’t have to think about whether or not a 12 year old can consent to changing their DNA essentially
It is wild that people, knowing the kind of insane things parents do and have done to their own children, would think that a parent can, in principle, consent to something like this in lieu of their child. People try to compare this to a parent allowing a life-saving heart surgery or something as if these are even in the same ethical universe. The only reason anyone thinks transgender surgeries are “life and death” is because of the looming (and systemically employed) threat of suicide. So the procedure is not a response to an imminent health problem (like a heart defect or tumour etc.), it’s a gambit against a potential future threat of suicide. In other words, the entire argument for minor gender surgeries is an emotional blackmail. It’s not medical.
the born trans thing was telling at least. i had a guy try to tell me it was determined in the womb due to hormones, i asked him if it was hormone exposure in the womb which was also responsible for post regret detransitions , i never got an answer
I didn’t make good decisions until I was about 30. I was very intentionally counter cultural due to some childhood trauma that I’ve now mostly healed from, and I now realize how unhealthy and misguided my decisions/intentions were. I’m VERY glad this cultural insistence of reassignment to young people was not around when I was a teen.
I love this content. While I don’t necessarily agree or disagree with their views. I really appreciate the respectful way they were questioned and got to examine and challenge their views.
Many 17 year olds have not even experienced the pleasure that a natural healthy fully intact body can bring. So let’s not let them chop bits off because of mental anxiety that is a normal part of adolescence.
Peter, is there a reason you never ask people to actually define what they mean or what they’re thinking of when you say “trans?” I feel like it was prudent to ask the one lady what her evidence base is for believing that trans is hardwired, and that would involve defining it.
Reconfiguring or removing body parts strikes me as an extreme form of make-believe. Surgeries may change appearance, sure enough, but cannot change what you are. Far better to be a feminine man, masculine woman, or any innate personality type one resonates with. Down with lopping off peckers and boobs, however, an adult may do so, if they can find a surgeon so bereft of integrity that they are willing to mutilate healthy body parts. C'est la vie.
So how do we go about this? I have sent email after email to my Conservative MP and to the appropriate Federal Ministers on various issues and all I got back is crickets. I am always respectful in my correspondence. I will be voting Conservative for the first time in my life but my MP has been silent too unless I directly mention my displeasure with PM Fancy Socks.
The question at ~19 min about the change rooms.... An additional question: Would you be comfortable for your minor child to be in a change room with an intact/ completed bottom surgery person? These people seem to be virtue signalling. It is highly unlikely that they would be actually comfortable in that situation, but are willing to force themselves to appear to be so as not to suffer social castigation.
@@donner101 it’s not an immutable characteristic. There is no isolated gene. It is a preference. I’m fine with someone having that preference, as long as they don’t impose on others that don’t share that preference.
01:40 The only way that someone could know that they're in the "wrong" body is if they had previous experience of another body in order to verify that they don't feel uncomfortable in every body. But you can't even change bodies. You can only make superficial changes.
I live with kids (elementary to college age). I sometimes think these people have never been around them if they think that they have the maturity to make life altering decisions.
Peter, you have to get their explanation for shocking/suprising answers! The two ladies who strongly agreed with being comfortable with intact males in the lockerroom was a WILD stance. It's adding nothing to our understanding of differing opinions without hearing their explanations for unique answers.
Doctors should do no harm. If I identify as someone with no arms and I have 2 healthy working arms no doctor should be allowed to remove my arms. Therapy should be the only option.
Terrifyingly, trans-ableism has now become a thing and people are requesting surgeries. I believe some may have been granted, as to say no undermines what’s said about trans surgeries.
In CA, a woman cannot get a tubal ligation regardless of how many kids she has before the age of 25. Can you imagine if you're 24 with four kids and done? Sorry!
I really enjoy this format of content, and I have respect for everyone who participated. I did find it rather surprising or even a little jarring that one of the participants said that age wasn't a factor for her on whether it was okay for them to get a double masectomy. Is she saying that if the question was "Can a four year old consent to a permanent sex change operation" her position wouldn't change? I don't see how it's possible for age to not be important in this.
Nina Hartley, a porn veteran, talked about the difference to the psyche of a young woman and the emotional damage she is exposed to if she enters porn at 18yo vs. 21yo. Those three years make an unfathomable difference to an individual with regards to life altering decisions regarding the rest of their lives.
