Are Vegetarians Healthier than Omnivores? A Soho Forum Debate 

After 8 years of being vegan, I got cancer. I cured myself being carnivore lipivore.

Farting is not bad rather it's an indication that the 55 Trillion Bacterial cells in Large Intestine and Small Intestine are feeding on the Fiber Rich Vegetables thus the Farting eventually when to do continue and Get Rid of Meat you will no longer have that farting issue. The only food for 55 Trillion Bacterial cells is Fibers which mainly available from Whole Food Plant Based diet.

Enjoy your 15 year shorter lifespan.

@@johndoe9362 Your stress over people eating meat or fatty meat is going short your life by 30 years, my family are all huge meat eater they usually die between 85-95 so what you said is irrelevant. Thank you for the wrong info, my DNA and family history just fact checked you. Note: Vegetables might be good for you, not for me neat making me feel like a million box, by the way my count are also perfect including my lipid panel. Thanks

@@amjedabdeljelil9038 I can see that English is not your primary language. Even if you're being honest about the dietary and longevity pattern of your family, that's not proof that consuming meat is advisable. Your family members would be the exception to the rule.

bcoleman71 I’m more concerned about the concentration of research within too few companies. The cost of FDA regs has wrecked competition and blocked market entry.

it's lays

Yes but he is not suggesting we should all take drugs. Hes saying we should use healthy food to prevent the needs for drugs by not getting disease in the first place. Nina on the other hand (the moron) is promoting a diet that is harmful to people, the animals and the planet. She is a truly disgusting person.

@@Smood47 that diet isn't harmful to people. I tried it for months and my cholesterol went down, my hdl cholesterol increased, my ldl cholesterol and triglycerides went down. My blood sugar dropped to normal, my blood pressure dropped to normal and my inflammation markers also went down. I did this over a period of months, had labs done at the beginning and end and every one of my blood markers got better. I don't get why people continue to criticize it when so many have done this successfully.

There is $60 billion/yr in federal research money for the industry. Many drugs wouldn't exist without it, including any antibiotic developed over the past 35-40 years.

Agree 100%! Ridiculous!!! Yes, pure oxygen is toxic, but where do you find pure oxygen in nature? It's not natural. But EVERY broccoli and spinach contain anti-nutrients. So if you eat broccoli and spinach and other vegetables are NECESSARILY poisoning themselves. This Dr. Katz is a clown!!!

Daniel Mamede do you have human data to show that these are an issue?

Hi@@ucchi9829 , I don't know what you meant by "human data", but there are numerous studies showing the negative impact of plants on human health. sites warn about the enormous problem of oxalates (e.g. veganhealth.org/oxalate). For more info, please take a look here lowoxalate.info/ and here jevohealth.com/journal/vol2/iss3/4/ For a general ideia about anti-nutrients (although this article is very superficial), see this one: www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/anti-nutrients/ This one is also a short read: www.healthline.com/nutrition/how-to-reduce-antinutrients#section6

because vegan breathe their toxic farts

Julia, You have no idea what you're talking about.

She is grounded and informed. Love her.

I agree with that 100%

Her book on FAT is unbelievable informative. I lent it to every friend I have!

Not remotely. She has no arguments, fallacious nonsense, and is at complete variance with the facts

Too bad she didn't...lookin hagged, Carny Baby!!

No study measures diet long term. It's all psuedoscience

At least there was a study, more than we can say for carnie, paleo and keto. More Kool-aid, Bubba?....

You do realize that the reason vegetarian studies are made is that many groups linked to either processed food, farming or pharmaceuticals fund them. And where do people who do these studies end up getting work in the future? Those same companies. You dont need to find evidence of hard corruption in academia, just soft corruption. Its the same as to why politicians vote for funding for big banks and companies and end up working for them@@ceeemm1901

Yeah the control group was given advice and wasn't monitored until 46 months later. So to call it a randomized clinical trail is absurd. It's basically a gloried epidemiological study.

Yes so the fact that he’s smugly talking about it falsely is very frustrating.

Earth worshippers? WTF, Fatso? So you're an Earth Hater then? Hahahaha.....too much saturated fat on the gray matter, Zeke.

Why are you saying "lady"? Katz is the one arguing for a vegan diet. That's zero meat, milk, eggs or any animal products.

this is why i follow the paleo diet of dr wahls

Yea but no, paleo diet isn't a paleo diet at all ... modernized and way off of what paleo really was. It's just another "too much meat diet" which creates cancer causing Tmao and IGF-1. Animal products today have antibiotics, growth hormones, and create bad gut biome in people. I will eat meat but at most a couple times a week. Nuts can replace meat, as can beans, sweet potatoes, Avocado. Plants first then the decadent stuff, like animal flesh as the last portion of the meal. It just keeps your insides clean and healthy that way.

@@thinkinoutloud.1 i eat plenty of meat, and grass fed organic meats, including the organ meats

@@thinkinoutloud.1 you seem to make the incorrect assumption that we disagree on the types of meat to eat. i eat animal that is raised how it was meant to eat.

Compared to what big guy?

Maybe because of a lack of food in Iran maybe do the same study in a more developed country

Dang really? What made you wanna start?

Epigenetics to the rescue

@@glacialimpala Hopefully that; not the wreck you.

@K. C.W As it applies to Trump's genetics, I might agree.

Our genetics were developed over the time humans have walked the planet. All these metabolic illnesses have only become a real problem over the last 60 years. It’s not genetics but changes in nutrition and pollution that are the probable problem. Lifestyle is the loaded gun and the trigger

@mike davidson I also wished you knew earlier. Your spelling and grammar might be easier to decipher.

David Katz based his arguments by assuming routine consumption of meats/eggs as omnivore diets. But yes, all papers quoted by the both the speakers, in all likelihood, didn't make that same assumption about vegetarian/omnivore diets.

You don't need to bring up "content" if it's not necessary in destroying the opposite side's perspectives. All you need is to point out flaws or fallacies.

he was explaining the burden of proving a negative. was that too hard for you to follow?

@@theserna Yeah complaining

Diandra gomez Explaining vs. Complaining. Words mean things. You can’t prove that God doesn’t exist for example. Pretty easy to follow but then again... I’m not a dumbass.

@@theserna yeah complaining

@@theserna Yup complaining . Just like you , ya dumbass

I am not at all interested in that.

www.statinnation.net/blog/2018/7/19/higher-cholesterol-builds-muscle

David Feldman, thanks for all that you do!

Awesome question... I think people don’t realize who you are !!! 😁 By the way, I got the best life insurance rate possible after using your cholesterol protocol!!! Thanks for all amazing work you do!

Dave Feldman I don’t know who you are and I understood why you asked it. Probably 1 of 2 intelligent questions asked. The one fanboy in the audience made me cringe.

This is a crucial point.

@@yuehhtewbb427 Katz is also boring as hell

Plant a tree sucker.

Vegans are intellectually dishonest and void of morals, so I'm glad he broke his promise, and showed the true nature of his ideology.

Vegans tactic 101, if you can't support your claim with proper science, then you got 2 choices.either lie or bring up ethics

@North American RU-vidr I totally agree. I believe our genetics determines our diet. I just resent people trying to tell me that a one-size-fits-all eating style is correct. If vegan, vegetarian, carnivore, fructarian--whatever works for someone, then that's what they need to do. BTW, I can't eat grains--they are, for me, very inflammatory. Leafy greens and other veg and berries are a big part of my diet. I grow my own, so I know what I am getting. Also, I don't think the government or food manufacturers have our best interests at heart. Or a lot of diet doctors either. They have a bottom line and it is green.

@North American RU-vidr "whole grains" You should do a little more research.

Mila Bulic Agreed, the same happened to me! Ali svaka vrsta dijete traži odricanja!

Avoiding grains and cheese stops candida

David Evans Thanks David, according to your information, I’ll search your statement and also skip cheese eating as much as possible...

What an ironic thing to say. Your queen got schooled. You, like her, can keep ignoring the mountain of evidence though.

Eric K yes we all age...lol. Funny that!!! I think she looks beautiful, I’m 52 - I wish I looked that good. I seriously thought she was in her late 30s.

Right on.

Look up Mimi Kirk

54? She looks much younger!

@@LuisAldamiz She is 54 for sure!

Don't trust what he says then, look at the randomized control trials and the meta analysis, study techniques that even that misguided woman deems as the most reliable. The study that he shows is not a portfolio of all his studies, it's not his. As for the conflict of interest, if David L. Katz takes money from the dairy industry for studies, So I don't think he is vegan.

@@joannot6706 I did, they are all flawed. Some of them consider weak endpoints like LDL levels, some have very weak design, others simply don't support his hypothesis. Point me to one that you find convincing. That's really all that Katz had to do here: present one convincing study that supports his hypothesis and win the debate. Instead he spent his time complaining about various things like the framing of the debate (rightfully in some ways, but he accepted it already!) until he didn't have time to do much else but flip through the slides.

@@joannot6706 Take the Lyon Diet Heart study for instance. Dr. Katz brings it up as an argument in favor of veganism didn't use a vegan diet for either group, the intervention group received some sort of Mediterranean diet which contains about 4x the meat that the AHA wants you to eat. By the way the experiment showed no difference in the LDL levels although mortality was significantly higher in the control group.

​@@r4ndomboy Well first, no, using just one study even a good one is not great, that's why meta analysis are the best, it's because it's many many things. which is better than 1 single one and him showing many meta analysis is great. And second, no you are lying, meta analysis are combining many many studies, they are not all flawed. And what do you mean weak end points like ldl levels? I genuinely don't understand.

@@joannot6706 You can't trust a meta-analysis unless you trust the underlying studies. Which meta-analysis did you find particularly convincing? Meta-analysis studies are very hard to pull off convincingly as they combine studies with very different designs. Unfortunately unless you dig deeply into all the references and understand everything well enough you can't make up your own mind on the topic - unless of course you carefully read what opposing sides have to say about things with an open mind. Are you familiar with Nina's work? If you read some of her posts or watch some of her lectures it might give you a better idea on where she's coming from rather than the short amount of time she had in this video. My other point was about the way in which the outcome of some studies is judged. Because of the prevailing opinion that LDL - the so-called "bad cholesterol" is a good marker for heart disease, it's often used to assert the outcome of a study instead of looking at actual heart disease. To be fair, it's not easy to look at heart disease but LDL is definitely not the way to do it. All cause mortality is generally my favorite metric as some interventions might for instance reduce cardiovascular events slightly but increase cancer rates. I really recommend this video on why nutritional science is so hard to anyone with an interest in the topic. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-xRAw7yeDO-c.html&t

when you fund a research you can prevent it from being published if its not to your liking, that why they fund it...

Um... $60 billion in annual federal research money, doesn't count?

Yeah, that multi billion dollar industry, Big Broccoli, is funding all the vegan propaganda studies.That's why everyone is turning up at the hospital from eating too much fruit and vegetables. If only the meat, dairy and egg industry could just get a few pennies together they could get the truth out about health......

Enjoy all of your diseases from what you're eating. You've earned it 👏

Strange when I increased my vegetables, fruits, grains I got sick, ( never was a candy soda drinker but loved fruit juice and smoothies) but when I cut all the fruit and grains as well as cut down to barely any vegetables my health improved drastically.

@@laymanlogic that's temporary...wait until you see what happens in the future.

@@laymanlogic medical professionals, citizens, scientists and the like who have been on KETO and Carnivore for over 15 years FEEL AMAZING and have never been healthier. There will always be naysayers....and then there are healthy happy people

@@robertcohen8554 your anger is caused by grains....pls take it elsewhere; your comments speaks volumes

😂 riiiight

was it mostly eating heavily processed vegan junk food - if so probably explains why. Refined sugar is vegan, too :p Always choose Whole Food.

Make sure the kind of veggies you eat have low oxalates.

It is the fat and the oils that you eat with the carbs that causes problems.

​@@VOLightPortalyou can eat refined sugar you just could not eat it in the presence of oils and fats, that is a recipe for disaster.

How so?

Of course you have a horse in this race since you admit you eat whatever you want whenever you want.. in other words,the very point tha Nina was trying to argue.

@@BillMcHalehow does her point that saturated fats aren’t bad for you mean she’s advocating for careless eating?

@@BillMcHaleher point was you have to eat meat not to eat whatever you want

@@danielaminnekhanova3432 No one has to eat meat, and find me certified nutritionists who make those claims? the current best evidence is okay with some meat (mostly poultry) and fish, but far and away a mostly plant centric diet.

Jeff H but that’s if you leave it to Nina to convince you. You’d need to check his background yourself and not rely on someone who clearly has an industry agenda, which by the way, she is being sponsored by the industry she represents.

@@BendeMark you obviously missed the part where she stated the complete opposite. Keep on making it up.

Is it possible the person that started it all, Ancel Keys, was conflicted. Either he was supporting Procter & Gamble who had invested a lot of money in seed oil (Crisco) or realized it would be political suicide to blame seed oil.

Ken Marriott either way someone has a lot to answer for. Look at the current debate around the next set of food guidelines.

@@BendeMark Katz wrote 2 shill reviews on HuffPo for a sci-fi novel that he himself had written under another name.

She's not an expert. Probably shouldn't take dietary advice from her. Especially with how little she knows.

Ucchi I beg your pardon? Did you listen to the debate? The expert was an embarrassment. He sounded I’ll prepared and foolish. She did a great job pointing out the various industries that line his pockets and are killing Americans. Have you checked the rates of obesity and diabetes in the US? Nina is an expert through thousands of studies done on the subject. She has spent thousands of hours looking for actual proof and didn’t find any supporting that would stand up under peer review..Your GP barely had 10 hours of nutrition education in school yet these people are the front line when we get sick from the Standard American Diets.. Check out videos from Dr. Jason Fung , Dr. Ken Berry .

@@MrSharkster59 Well I don't agree that she identified any industry as being an intermediary for deaths of Americans. Funny enough Nina has some undisclosed conflicts of interest thedietwars.com/nina-teicholz-misleads-readers-by-chronically-failing-to-disclose-how-her-work-is-financially-supported/?ReviveOldPost&ReviveOldPost . I have looked at obesity rates in the US and what might be some intermediaries. But, Kevin Bass again has another good article on this that helps elucidate what Nina does not: 1. thedietwars.com/added-sugar-intake-in-the-united-states-is-going-down-shown-using-all-four-available-relevant-datasets-usda-un-fao-nhanes-and-corporate-sales-data/?ReviveOldPost&ReviveOldPost 2. thedietwars.com/guidelines/ Nina is not an expert. She's not trained in Academia either. Not sure if you know what peer review means. Here is a critique of her entire book if interested: thescienceofnutrition.wordpress.com/2014/08/10/the-big-fat-surprise-a-critical-review-part-1/ Not sure what the point about Physicians is. Seems irrelevant. Fung and Berry are quacks IMO. Neither of them are scientists. Both are quacks in the field their in.

Enjoy your clogged arteries and heart disease among many others. Enjoy all of your meds too.

She was not a vegetarian or at least she doesn’t know what a vegetarian is. She said to Sanjay Gupta: “Actually I was a vegetarian, I ate stir fried veggies and chicken every day”. Great person to take dietary advice from ☺️

Yep, vegan is def one of them

Actually, it's a seriously STUPID comment. He seems to have a low opinion of Americans who largely follow the governments "food pyramid" which is largely invented by idiots like Katz.

@@martspeyers Hell yes!

True. One of them being severely lacking in B12 for example but called "healthy". RCT here and there but let's just think what we ate during most of human evolution before agriculture revolution. Yeah. Animals. because most plants we eat today simply did not exist. All plants we eat today are "human made" and didn't exist that way. Especially fruit was much more fibrous, less "meaty" and less sweet.

@@beginner1991 All animals are "human made", did you know that all American large scale commercial cows comes from the sperm of 2 cows? Just google: "Most U.S. Dairy Cows Are Descended From Just 2 Bulls. That's Not Good" And those animals are just as hybrid as any plants are, that in it self isn't an argument for it being good or bad, its a nature fallacy to claim the opposite. Its not lacking in B12 when a diet can be supplemented, just like the milk is supplemented with D vitamin, Iodine for the tits and salt and so on. Don't tell yourself that a non vegan diet isn't supplemented.

her facts were better? how many more scientific studies did he have to reference? did you even watch his portion?

@@theserna youre clueless.if you don't understand, at least don't try to be an a$$hole.typical vegan, ignorant narcissist

Except she doesnt. Shes a moron.

@@Smood47 wow what an argument

@@frek175 Yup, almost as awesome as the evidence that supported the claims made by this idiot Nina the uneducated fool Teicholz. Oh wait... she just appealed to mechanism and her intuition rather than actual research that silly Dr. Katz used. Yup Nina definitely made some great arguments indeed! FACEPALM.

If carnivore diet has worked for you well and vegan diet worked for vegans well. It's further proof that we humans are omnivores.

An omnivore consumes a variety of both. Yes, some humans do better on more plant-rich diet, while others thrive on a diet consisting more of animal foods. Additionally, there are those who do very well consuming a variety of both plant- and animal produce. NOT ONE DIET FOR ALL. Weston Price found that none of the diets of healthy, isolated people groups over the world was vegan or low fat. All included some forms of animal-&fermented foods.

Carnivore is essentially a huge elimination diet... the benefits could be the result of removing one or more other food from your diet that caused issue, does not prove that carnivore is best for you long term.

I agree with you 1000%! She was polished and poised for this debate, and he was a flipping wreck. I mean just look at his slides, that alone should tell someone he put little to no effort in preparing for this debate or taking it seriously. His crude behavior was bazaar and very unacademic.

Totally agree. He is a whiner and a bad loser from the beginning. He is doing this because he know what we know. That he is wrong and his position is weak from the beginning.

@@jbydlmdmIaw You're not smart.

@@puravida1159 You're not intelligent.

​​@@jbydlmdmIawagreed. His PowerPoint was like a high school presentation he did the night before. Also, when he sits down he's out of breath and drinks a ton of water. His weak, breathy voice with almost no inflection is a sign his restrictive diet is failing him too

☮️ Red Pill Vegan, Next! Here's to hoping you make a vid about this sh!twack of a debate

That sounds a bit douchy tbh

So who's funding Nina?

@@esch4920 meat dairy and egg industry

@@robertcohen8554 . Nina is self-funding. She has been doing this research for a couple of decades.

@@brucehutchinson9527 not self funding at all. She is a lapdog for the animal agriculture industry.

There is no evidence Nina took any money from the meat, dairy, or egg industry.

Not accounting for medications, medical history, ect is very misleading. So I don’t think that holds up.

LDL lowers in sick people

He's just sour he got BTFO by a journalist.

Vegans are blind followers of a RELIGION NOT SCIENCE! Humans became human by eating meats! There is absolutely no need for any carbohydrates in the human diet!

some Jewish men will not shake a woman's hand. I don't like to shake a man's hand.

@Sheri JK Katz is just an asinine follower of the vegan religion! No class and rude too!

@@thalesnemo2841 Sad. then we should pray for him

I think the point he made was that consumption of healthy forms of fruits and vegetables didn't go up, but not so healthy forms (refined grains, fried potatoes, ketchup, etc.) did. And he said there's been a slight decline in chronic disease associated with the trend to eat a bit less meat.

T Joe>> But he's wrong, and that's the real point. The consumption of fruits and vegetables has gone up in developed countries, and the consumption of animal products has gone down in the last 40 years. And that's due to the bogus "studies'' mostly done in the 1980s and 90s that painted fat and animal protein as dangerous. There has been a small decline in some chronic diseases and conditions, like heart disease, certain cancers and stroke, and an increase in others, like diabetes, auto-immune disorders such as MS, lupus and ALS, obesity and others. The reason for a decrease in heart disease and certain cancers can be laid directly at the feet of a sharp decrease in cigarette smoking. If you are saying that eating less meat or more plant foods is responsible for the decline in certain diseases and conditions, then that trend must also take the blame for the increase in the others that are skyrocketing, like diabetes and obesity. You can't have it both ways.

@@banishedfromthedwarfplanet530 Do you believe in epidemiology?

NamesChuck>> That's an odd question, isn't it? Epidemiology exists, so of course I believe in it. It's like asking someone if they believe in anthropology, or politics or religion. They all obviously exist, so who wouldn't believe in them? If there was a point to your question, you need to formulate it a bit better; otherwise it really doesn't mean anything.

@@banishedfromthedwarfplanet530 I should have been more clear. Do you believe that epidemiology works?

It's not possible. Even if you throw the cooking oil out of the equation, there is still fat in the vegetable. I tried so far:keto, carnivore, ominivore, pescatarian, vegan, vegan keto. The kind of diet that worked best for me was..... vegan diet. BUT, and this is a big but, you can't just get rid of fat altogether, it's not possible. Even gladiators, aka barley boys back in the Ancient Roman time ate a shit ton of fat, like olive oil.

Same here! I had all the issues you mention + PCOS during my 35 yrs of vegetarian life (home cooking, no processed food). Keto and 1 or 2 meals a day solved them all. I am 67 yer old. My GP cannot believe my lab results there are no meds in my house... .

You're simply uneducated.

😂

Well said!

M X, I'm completely comfortable concluding that you're uneducated.

So, citing study after study after study, dozens and dozens of studies which all point in the same general direction is an appeal to authority? Got it. No one with any understanding of the scientific method would make such a claim as Nina does (and which you have echoed), attempting to equate the enterprise of evidence & inquiry with an appeal to authority. They are polar opposite enterprises, and only someone blinded by emotion would fall for her ridiculous statement.

She has no arguments or evidence at all. She only wants to draw attention to herself.

how does he have to fight left handed?? what disadvantage is he at? he's totally wrong

Heather Austin, You have no idea what you're talking about. You really needed someone to tell you that.

Ignorant

Reason one is profit driven, real food is more expensive than flavoring industrial lubricants and calling it food, so there's a huge corporate push to get people to eat engineered "food", ie Beyond Meat. Reason two is ideological, the faith based belief that anthropogenic, catastrophic global warming will destroy life on earth and thus, it is a moral duty to reduce greenhouse gases including those generated by livestock. The politics of food isn't about food itself, but about money and fear.

Lies

I don’t think she was a vegetarian. She ate a low-fat diet, including fish and chicken. 🍗🍤

Arrogant douche who didnt address or apologize for name calling vs well mannered woman.

Yeah, I see lots of vegetarians excluding seed oils and doing just fine. I lean more towards animal-sourced foods, but I believe most people could be pretty healthy if they simply eliminated PUFAS and refined carbs.

Well said!

Well, that is true for modem medicine as well. Would you suggest dropping it for the same arguments? As for your second point about this diet might not be suitable for all, can you be more specific? Even if it's true for some people, the more important thing is the effect over the main bulk of the population.

Actually quite a few. One of the problems folks ran into when global health initiatives became a "fad" is that they'd go into tribes with little to no contact with modern civilizations, and they'd purify their water.... and then they'd all get B12 deficiencies because the only source of B12 in their diet was from water contaminated with animal feces. But that's a dumb argument: are we going to start saying "oh maybe your smartphone is why you're obese, we've only had smartphones for a decade or so".

Lies

They don't get their yearly "matanza" (pig slaughter) dose of adrenaline, I guess. *smirk*

Your face? idk

Because they have no facts and are grumpy from malnourishment

Vegans are similar to leftists. Soft brain that is easily manipulated and they will not change even when shown the truth. I tried vegan two years ago and it had it's benefits but left me very weak and non-productive. I tried Keto this year and now testing carnivore. It's amazing compared to my experience with vegan.

Lack of healthy fats for normal brain function, I'm not even joking!

His opponent kept going off topic...

He is making the point that observational studies are still important pieces of evidence because they lead to conclusions that can then be tested further for their mechanisms (ie the law of gravity came from observation) The second part is a quote from a fight scene in the famous cult classic movie “The Princess Bride”. If you have not watched this movie, I highly recommend it. He is summarily saying that he is debating at a small disadvantage because proving a negative is inherently impossible because no one can quantify when enough data is truly “enough” and even if he fails to convince people, well the absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. Though honestly I feel like they both presented copious amounts of data. Perhaps that’s why there are so many studies out there saying that both diets are good for you/better than the standard diet and “it depends on the person and simple sugar is always bad”.

No, you are just triggered after hearing all the facts! You only hear what you want to hear. Animal diet is not good for your health. It is the root cause of so many diseases. It is also bad for the environment.

I would talk with the lady cause she is smart and honest

You're not intellectually qualified to determine who won the debate. Hint: Dr. Katz won.

@@johndoe9362 You don't even know me.Have a good day.

@@arifsevimli4324 The word is "know," not "now." See? I'm educating you for free. Here's some more free advice... Nina is a complete joke. You clearly do not have a background in flagging pseudoscience, half-truths, chicanery, smoke and mirror arguments and outright lies. I do. I laughed at her throughout this debate. If you're taking Nina seriously, then you deserve to be laughed at, too.

Skeptics won, that's against the narrative needed. Plant based wins on this one and it'll stay around because it's the right narrative.

"Why isn't the climate change debate" *Because Trump solved it with green, cheap, safe, zero CO2 gen4 nuclear energy.*

@@simongold2739 my chemistry prof. And other politicians have been saying that for years (since the Obama admin.) John stosel even did a segment on it. Using Nuclear energy isn't anything new. If it's wasn't on his campaign then his advisors just told him what to do.

@@lightdark00 do you really not believe greenhouse gases contribute to climate change?

@@senortigre0489 Higher CO2 levels can lead to a greening of the earth. Higher methane levels might, but cows are to blame for that.

Before he started speaking I said to myself, if he doesn't defend himself it means he is a guilty of everything she said.

Addressing the elephant would be a bad idea, people will soon know that the elephant has a very complex digestive system (a large multi-chambers stomach) and up to 17 hours gestation period to handle those anti-metabolites in order to extract sufficient nutrient to sustain. Also elephant spent a lot of time eating. it will be hard for him to convince people that a plant based diet is good. I think elephant can be considered vegan 😓

She DID spank him!

He looks like someone who enjoys being spanked.

When you don’t have an argument, you resort to being crude.

exactly right! his evidence are bad humor and his own books!

Christian Bone Now I know why Trump won.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incontrovertible_evidence

So are you a gravity skeptic?

Yes, and no one wants the refined carbs and foods. That's the problem here both extremes said advocate to remove processed food that be carb or meat/fat. Instead of fighting a common enemy they fight each other and the processed junk food industry laugh on the side and make vegan foods and keto foods and shit food.

Incorrect. Cooking and soaking carbohydrates reduces their anti nutrient content

@@julia9557 That's if you're into cooking your food. I eat mostly raw foods in the form of fruits, veggies, and nuts. I do however, soak my nuts. Those dreaded "anti-nutrients"... I've been eating lots of raw foods for seven years now, so I must be immune to those so called anti-nutrients.

@@henryhenry2752 There's a wide range of anti-nutrients. Some of them will make it more difficult to absorb the nutrients in food, and then there's phytoestrogen in soy which acts the same way as estrogen, messes with thyroid function and may increase the risk of breast cancer. There are fewer anti-nutrients in soy if it's fermented (tempeh, miso, natto). Cooking plant food reduces the amount of anti-nutrients, but also reduces the nutrients too so it's a lose-lose scenario. In animal based food like meat, eggs, and dairy there are no anti-nutrients and it is much more bioavailable than plant food. "Soybeans, even processed ones, have anti-thyroid properties.6 The estrogenic isoflavones (particular plant pigments) in soy-genistein and daidzein-are much touted for their health benefits. What is unpublicized is that they are anti-thyroid agents. Individuals who consume soybean products habitually (the recommendation currently in vogue) may encounter long-range thyroid disturbances. Animal studies relate the isoflavones in soy to thyroid disorders, including goiter. Other studies relate soybean consumption not only to hypothyroidism, but also to low energy levels, poor mineral absorption, and infertility. 7" americannutritionassociation.org/newsletter/downside-soybean-consumption-0

What percentage of your plate is animal based?

@@vashlash6870 On average its prob. between 1/4 to 1/2, closer to 1/3 of my plate for most meals...

@@vashlash6870 Of course, that was a year ago. This is how my diet is now, more or less: 1.) Dark/Leafy Greens, Broccoli, Cauliflower, Brassicas/Cruciferous, Chenopod Veggies, Apiaceae/Asteraceae Salad Veggies, Fresh Herbs/Mint Family, Sauerkraut and Kimchi as well, etc. Also spices: About 5% of my daily calories, or around 100 cal. per day. I generally eat something from these veggies once or twice a day. Favorite veggies here are: 1.) Celery 2.) Carrots 3.) Lettuces/Endive 4.) Microgreens like Alfalfa Sprouts, Bean Sprouts, Clover Sprouts, etc. 5.) Bok Choy 6.) Collard Greens 7.) Watercress 8.) Cilantro 9.) Broccoli 10.) Cauliflower 11.) Kimchi 12.) Basil 13.) Thyme 14.) Marjoram 15.) Savory 16.) Chervil 17.) Mint 18.) Turmeric 19.) Cardamom 20.) Fennel 21.) Paprika 22.) Fenugreek 23.) Cumin 24.) Amchoor 25.) Wasabi (Horseradish) 2.) Other Vegetables: About 5% of my daily calories. (In a meal or two most days.) Favorites are: 1.) Zucchini 2.) Cucumber 3.) Onion 4.) Green Onion 5.) Garlic 6.) Mushrooms 7.) Potato (but I watch very closely how much I have of this stuff) 8.) Yellow Squash 9.) Green Beans 10.) Peas 3.) Fruits: About 15% of my daily calories, or around 300 calories per day. Favorites are: 1.) Raspberries 2.) Strawberries 3.) Pomegranate 4.) Cherries 5.) Blueberries 6.) Oranges 7.) Grapes 8.) Golden Kiwifruit 9.) Kiwiberries 10.) Tayberries 11.) Marionberries 12.) Mangosteen 13.) Passion Fruit 14.) Guava 15.) Lychee 16.) Thimbleberries 17.) Mango (its sugary, yeah, yeah...) 18.) Pineapple (also sugary) 19.) Nectarines 20.) FRESH Plums 4.) Nuts/Seeds: Around 25% of my daily calories, or about 500 calories. Favorites here are: 1.) Pistachios 2.) Peanuts 3.) Cashews 4.) Walnuts 5.) Sunflower Seeds 6.) Pumpkin Seeds 7.) Almonds 8.) Pine Nuts 5.) Beans: Not very often consumed, maybe chili a few times a month, prob. once or twice a month consumed outside of chili, also beans in burritos, etc., again, maybe a few times a month. So these guys don't show up in my diet on a regular basis, but I still eat them here and there. However, there is recently a chickpea snack food called Raita Boondi (fried chickpeas) that I have been snacking on a bit (Indian snack food). So that prob. increases my daily calories for beans there a bit... 6.) Grains: Same deal as beans. I prob. eat a BIT of corn, wheat and rice. More the non-gluten type stuff though. Combined with beans, esp. the Raita Boondi in more recent months, we're prob. looking like about 10% of my daily calories (for both grains and beans). 7.) Avocado, Olives, Extra Virgin Olive Oil First Cold Pressed from One Country of Origin: About 5% of my daily calories. 8.) Pasture Raised Eggs: 10% of my daily calories. Usually scrambled with e. v. olive oil, Him. sea salt, etc. in the morning. 9.) Wild Caught Fish/Seafood: More like beans/grains, I've been eating lower quantities of this stuff recently... This category can be lumped in with eggs right now prob. 10.) (Mostly) organic poultry: 10% of daily calories on average. Mostly chicken, little bit of turkey. 11.) Red Meats: 10% of daily calories on average. Recently, its mainly been pork sausage here (in colder months). Not bacon so much. Beef is more of an occasional sort of thing. Very little other meats. 12.) Sweets/Dark Chocolate/Ice Cream: 5% of daily calories on average. Will go for long stretches with not much of this stuff. I'm prob. going to switch from pork sausage back to more of a chicken/beef/salmon, etc. combo in the near future, its just that its a rather convenient protein for my current living situation. Its basically the most unhealthy food I prob. regularly eat right now, I mean, it could be worse. At least pork has a lot of nutrients and is tasty, etc. Eating more Indian food with all its spices, flavors, etc. might also be a good substitute for going back to eating beef more often at least... 🤔 Main thing is getting that salad in on a regular basis...

Their only anger is against the bull headed attitudes of carnivores who want to abuse animals.

Joe Schmoe Translation: Human nutrition and health is not the real issue for some people. FYI, animals in the wild don’t go to nursing homes when they get old or sick or lame. They starve or die of exposure or get eaten alive by predators.. You are free to eat as you please. But as we just saw you are on shaky ground if you claim vegan diets are healthier than diets that include animal products,so you must introduce half thought through ethical issues.

katz is a con man shill

Maybe we're angry because we're tired of hearing so many lies, like saturated fat is good for you, and watching people lose years off their lives as a result. This is basic stuff. Katz presents tons of the highest quality evidence. To respond only with "Science is imperfect and nobody in the audience can read these studies while sitting here" is not much of a reply. Where is the evidence overturning Katz thesis? Very little offered from Nina.

@Wo Long Nonsense.... That claim is by Dr. Ornish with just a handful of his patients . He also concurrently did other interventions with the same people... In reality, a low carb high fat diet has been shown to reverse diabetes... The single biggest risk factor for heart disease is diabetes...

I hate that kind of crap. It is not needed to discuss the soundness of the information.

@@MilwaukeeF40C However, such disclosures are imperative for determining the possible motivating factors for why figures lie and liars figure.

@@jeffersonianideal You will never get those disclosures when you really want them. By the time someone else blows the whistle you already know the information was wrong.

@@MilwaukeeF40C Much (but not all) of the medical community mandates such disclosures from physicians who deliver medical presentation material to audiences. Journalists are under no similar obligation to disclose potential conflicts of interest.

@@jeffersonianideal Disclosures are more symbolic than effective. Lazy ethics and diligence on the part of the audience.

lol

What is your claim here?

Reminds me of Nassim Taleb's claim that the successes of the Mediterranean diet are concentrated *around* the Mediterranean. He believes the fasting of the Greek Orthodox Calendar plays an underemphasized influence, backing up rule-of-thumb strategy of removing from habits rather than changing them to get different results at a more stable and manageable rate. "Via negativia."

@Allsy Inguy In my opinion nutrition as a field has the worst correlative research of practically any science. I agree with her statement that he just threw up studies without actually showing validity for most of them. I agree with his statement that the bar was set incredibly low for him because the resolution only required that he prove the existence of a volume of research that agrees with, but doesn't necessarily prove his point. His choice to parse the resolution clearly shows that he doesn't want to focus on having the better value system. He just wanted to win the debate. Though I feel he won the debate, he certainly didn't show that a vegan diet is better.

@@AhimsaWitch my claim is that he misrepresented the study during the Q&A portion of the debate.

That is great, good for you. I hear so many good things about keto, esp for inflammation. I tried the very very near vegan diet. I felt great at first, because I was coming off of of the SAD way of life. After a couple of years, my health went down hill - tingly hands, thinning hair, bad nails, always cold feet and hands etc etc. I started slowly adding meat, eggs and the like, I feel wonderful. I know these are "studies of one" but if you have to take supplements with a way of eating ...well that should speak for itself. Just got numbers back yesterday - trigs 41 beat that vegans, all other markers better than my last check up - while vegan. Just don't eat junk, eat all real nothing in a package period! Good luck to all

Okay, this endless debate is getting ridiculous. What kind of foods do you eat exactly? Make the list of the kinds of foods you eat most commonly everyday. For example, what kind of vegetable(carrots, beans, rice(brown or white), what kind of green)? What kind of meat do you eat? Chicken? Beef? Pork?

The sample size is too small, if hardly any people in any given area are eating a whole food plant based diet, hardly anyone, if at all, will ever show up to a hospital because of the diet lolol pretty simple logic. Not to mention using the amount of people at a hospital who eat any type of diet is by far the biggest dipshit way of gauging the healthiness of a particular diet.

@@BigAssNigga311 how do you explain all the people with type 2 diabetes, who have limbs cut off, who are going blind, people with heart disease receiving stents and open heart surgery, stroke patients and people suffering from cancer, which buy the way is mostly food related? That's pretty much what makes up the population of those admitted to the hospital. It doesn't matter what the population size is of those eating a WFPB diet, you won't find them in the hospital. Period

Actually, you very well might. My mother shared a hospital room with an "organic vegan" not too long ago; the vegan lady was in hospital to have surgery for colon cancer. I guess all that organic high-fiber plant-based food with plenty of plant-based oils didn't prevent cancer. I remember that lady to be outright *shocked* at that fact. (She was super nice, and I wish her nothing but the very best.)

@@4pawsabicycle675 it takes many years for cancer tumors to show up. The cancer was most likely developing over decades. It would be interesting to know how long she was vegan. Being vegan doesn't mean you won't get cancer, but your chances are much lower. Organic Vegans can still consume vegan processed junk food. There is a big difference between a WFPB vegan and a regular vegan.

@@carolschwers6537 While it is *obviously* correct that many paths may lead to cancer and that many cancers take many years to develop and manifest, it is still a fact that long-term vegans *do* indeed suffer not only from cancer, but they may develop and manifest other diseases that require hospitalization. Veganism isn't the holy path to eternal health, even though many vegans actively and vehemently deny their eating habits contributing to health issues, if/when they develop the latter. Like that WFPB lady my mom shared her hospital room with. She was completely gobsmacked by the fact that she--of all people!--could have cancer. Of course, neither you nor I will ever know this specific long-term vegan's cancer cause, but discussing the causes of her condition wasn't the point. My point was (and is) simply to show that your fairly outrageous and unfounded claim that one "won't see WFPB people" in hospitals, and my single example is proof enough that that claim is dead wrong. I *have* seen WFPB people in hospitals, and not just that one person. A WFPB eating friend of mine died from pancreatic cancer, at a young age. Personally, I fail to see how a deficient diet that requires the supplementation of essential nutrients and that is low in the bioavailability of other essential nutrients could ever be conceived as "healthy" in the first place, and legions of long-term vegans with plenty of chronic WFPB diet-caused illnesses ranging from cancers to IBS to diabetes show that a WFPB diet isn't per se "healthy." If that's how you want to eat, go ahead. Far be it from me to try and convince you (or any vegan) otherwise. But please stick to verifiable evidence-based facts when you're making claims about alleged health benefits.

Wow. Really carnavor ? Or balanced diet with veggies,fruits,grains & meats? I my self tried to go Vegan for 9 months & got so damm skinny that my friends constantly ask if i was doing ok!!! just didn't work for me!! It's all about eating organic veggies,fruits & grains but i eat meat,eggs,fish. & poultry at least once a day & i feel incredible. im Almost 48. I also only eat in a 8 hour window 6 days a week.. 🙏👍✌

Hey that's cool would you post your before and after lab results of your glucose levels?

i kinda feel sad for the low carb folks, they can only rely on anecdotal evidence, cuz they have no real science to back up their diet. so sad.

The Dragon Forge Experience I was thinking the same thing. There’d be nothing on the pharmacy shelves? Great! I’m keto over 14 months, lost over 40 lbs (in first 5 months) back at the gym, and not on any medication whatsoever. 😎 Fuck pharmacies.

POST VEGANISM Then look at the Adventist health studies. But it’s funny how people with little to no evidence that omnivorism is healthy than vegetarianism criticise the evidence for vegetarianism instead of looking at their own lack of evidence.

@@FreedomPhilosophyTV LOL..studies from Seventh Day Adventists structured to support their religious beliefs that meat makes one masturbate and thus we all must eat grains so we won't wank ourselves to hell. Sorry pretty much everything that comes out of Loma Linda is nonsense. Here's a good critique: letthemeatmeat.com/post/672141096/survey-says-vegetarian-adventists-in-a-jolly-mood

"Now what would be a more meaningful study is where both the vegan and the omnivore diet were healthy whole food diets where both groups got the same level of support so that there was no performance or healthy user bias. So the only difference between the two groups would be whether or not, a person ate meat." www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27253526 Actually, the type of study that you describe above has been done. Here is one example that. In this study both of the groups did have a healthy diet: one being a diet from the Korean Diabetes Association and the other one being a vegan diet. Please note that the vegan group did not get extra diabetes education, health coaches, supplements, exercise regiment or any special treatment. And as you can see, the vegan diet had better glycemic control than the Korean Diabetes Association diet when measuring the hemoglobin A1c (a 3 month average of blood sugar control). The vegan group had a -0.5% reduction vs a -0.2% reduction in the diabetes diet group. The bigger the reduction in A1c=better diabetes sugar control. And when you take into account only participants with high compliance (ie. high adherence to the vegan diet and high adherence to the diabetic diet): the glycemic control was even better in the vegan group -0.9% vs -0.3% reductions in hemoglobin A1c.

@@REGENETARIANISMtry to argue this, mendelian randomization trials done on genes coding for low cholesterol have concluded that there was no heart disease in those individuals. Dietary cholesterol is linked to serum cholesterol too. Please don't promote taking feed out of poor countries to feed animals for selfish reason.

The problem with arguing with science deniers is they are idiots and will never wake up. If you eat WFPB you will NOT get heart disease. the number 1 killer of man!

Uh.. her arguments are weak and not backed by science.

Bianca Gadi, You have no idea what you're talking about.

YEAH, he just showed us a bunch of scientific articles and research findings.... oh wait...

@@theserna so did she. And we also have 250,000 years of human life and achievements directly correlated to the consumption of other animals.

@@scottmalleus4847 For years, we also enslaved, rape and killed....dose this make it ''A MUST DO'' for our actual present date?

@@kurogami5143 nobody said it is a must do bro are you okay

Can you give me a time stamp for that? Thanks.

@@Chronically_ChiII 23:50

@@CaryHawkins Yeah, he's an arrogant prick. Let's never forget he fawned over his own book that he wrote using a pseudonym LOL. You obviously get it, but for those reading who don't get it: it's possible to prove a negative within a limited domain. e.g. if you ask me to prove I don't have your lucky sock (unlimited domain), you can always object that I'm hiding it somewhere else when I show you it's not in one place. But if you ask me to prove I don't have your lucky sock stashed in my dresser (limited domain), all I have to do is pull out all the drawers and show you to prove it's not there.

so true

Wrong moron.

They eat seafood e.g fish or ossobuco or lasagne or risotto all non-vegan.

Not in the least are they vegan!

They are not. I watched a doctor go there and sit and speak with families, they eat fish very high pork and high fats with low carbs. And tons of olive oil.

@@RS-hj7ow this is not true. Depends where in itally and also when. The diet was a lot of fish and vegetables and fruits, verry litle meat. Don't talk if your an idiot..

@@TTR83 we do eat fish sparingly but never ever beef. Our landacape is not meant for ruminants. Sorry to dissapoint you. We are 90% veg.

What were the risk estimates in those epidemiological studies? Compare those numbers with the estimates in the epidemiological studies that link eating animal products with heart disease or cancer.

@@kegeshook1734 - It's pretty overwhelming as to the link between consumed LDL cholesterol and LDL in blood tests and LDL levels in blood tests and heart disease. The link is literally undeniable scientifically.

@@timothys9288 You say that the link between LDL levels in blood tests and heart disease is overwhelming? Ok then, let's see what you've got. Overwhelm me with your data.

@@kegeshook1734 - Well, let's start with Web MD - www.webmd.com/heart-disease/guide/heart-disease-lower-cholesterol-risk#1 Let's not forget that saturated fat also causes higher cholesterol and animal products ALWAYS contain saturated fat. And finally, the chart and study link that shows LDL cholesterol and incidence of and severity of atherosclerosis (heart disease) Simple chart for someone looking for an easy answer: www.onlinejacc.org/content/accj/70/24/2979/F1.large.jpg?width=800&height=600&carousel=1 The link to the actual study: www.onlinejacc.org/content/70/24/2979 This is the ONLY evidence necessary to conclude the cholesterol->heart disease link and until you have a study that directly contradicts this one (which isn't paid for by the animal agriculture industry), then you have your answer and it's scientifically clear.

@@timothys9288 I have little faith in Web MD. As for the study: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-sQsPn3sfSh4.html

Most of these studies have serious limitations, and the meta-analyses of shit studies equates to what? A massive pile of shit. The idea of a universally "perfect" diet doesn't even make sense, and we don't hold other aspects of health to this standard, so I don't know why nutritionists are so hung up on this. If you're already (truly) healthy, the benefits will become increasingly marginal anyway.

The reason why is because corporations that make food are paying for "studies" that muddy the waters. The vast majority of the studies you see in media articles are paid for by food corporations via advertising in the publications and the study was also paid for by the corporation. Like the egg studies defending eggs are all as phony as a $3 bill. Same with cholesterol studies paid for by the meat industries. And yes, there were high-carb companies paying for studies saying sugar was good. The best studies to look at are by organizations and universities that aren't paid for by industries. The World Health Organization has peer-reviewed and excluded the industry studies and have stated that meat is a carcinogen. That's real science that has no agenda by real doctors and medical professionals. Same thing with vegan diets reversing several types of diseases. Animal products are bad for you. Simple sugars are also bad for you. A balanced, whole-foods vegan diet with a simple B-12 supplement is the most healthy diet according to all of the unbiased medical literature I've reviewed.

If only your health was the only issue with omnivore diet, trust me - I wouldn't care. Even skipping all the cruelty and abuse towards animals there are dozen more arguments against it. Pollution and deforestation it causes and antibiotics resistance we're increasing every day and more are worth considering. Maybe you can find happiness in being altruistic. Lab grown meat will be common in 10 years and for now all you have to do is limit yourself to mock meats and nut cheeses that are closer and closer to real deal fay by day.

Your diet either sucked or you are a liar. I did plant-based with skepticism 8 years ago and haven't looked back. Trimmer, more energy, and more money in my wallet from grocery shopping. Stop with your pathetic cant.

No she didn't suggest that. She showed a graph that depicts lower meat consumption in America while all those metabolic diseases are increasing in frequency. *Whatever else may be the problem, meat certainly isn't it.*

@el-bo V No , idiot. Read meat and dairy are not being consumed more that they were. In fact they are consumed less. How moronic do you have to be to suggest that eggs meat and dairy are the problem? You know what has ? Seed oils and HFCS. Gee I wonder if what entered our food supply at the same time the chronic disease epidemic started might be the cause? Fructose and PUFA are not things you want much of in the human diet unless you think fatty liver, heart disease and cancer are a good idea. I also love the comments the problem is that the other food are added and they the "bad food" just was not cut out enough...LOL PUFA and refined carbs causes you to eat more.

@@yuehhtewbb427 >>"No she didn't suggest that.">She showed a graph that depicts lower meat consumption in America while all those metabolic diseases are increasing in frequency."

@Dr Grey Eating TO MUCH of everything can be a problem! Mixing it all, and using quality products and reducing all snacking and sugars is the way to go and is the way that the rest of the world does things!!

@@yuehhtewbb427 Some meats are lower, but some are higher, like chicken. For all meat products put together, consumption is now higher than ever. www.wri.org/blog/2018/01/2018-will-see-high-meat-consumption-us-american-diet-shifting

She looks great. And what people on earth eat a plant based diet?

@@rubygreta1 You should read the book the Blue Zones it talks about places like Okinawa, Japan with the highest longevity eating plant based diet

Julian Farquhar : She did fantastic . And considering she doesn't have a medical degree, she presented like she did!

Gary Toth She has a science journalist so that’s her thing

Awkward meet up right there. "He, remember when you called me an animal?" haha

public attacks? that's normal hes a vegan🙄