Are We in the West Getting "Real Buddhism"? 

This better be the real deal! You got me starring at a fricken wall every day!

I married into a Shingon family way before I got into zen. My understanding of it was this: go to the temple and buy taiyaki at festivals; ring a bell 108 times to mark the new year; thrown 5-yen coins in a hopper; and keep a pic of dead grandparents in the corner where you leave gifts of whiskey for a bit before drinking them.

Good commentary. Just want to add here, that Buddhism as a tradition with its roots in high esoteric hindu philosophy, from which it ofc departed during the self/god debates. The debates continued within buddhist schools though, and then much in the manner of something vs nothing, or personal salvation vs salvation for all. The philosophical debate of something vs nothing got pretty settled when Nagarjuna entered the scene though, and established the concept of Shunyata / emptiness and the Madhyamaka school. Which, if you read or listen to Jay Garfield or Keiji Nishitani actually share a lot with modern western philosophy, relating to western thought on nothingness.

I heard a Buddhist scholar say that the Insight Meditation practiced in the west was originally championed by reformist monks in Burma and Thailand.

Christianity actually did start out extremely diverse with wildly differing beliefs, and if allowed to continue probably would be even more diverse than Buddhism. But early on the Roman Catholic church heavily suppressed any expressions of Christianity they didn't agree with and burned a lot of books they didn't include into their definitive New Testiment. Christianity isn't the way it is because of a lack of creativity or time or because of some sort of common unity, but a ruthless self-destructive regime. You can learn more from Bart D. Ehrman's works, they're very interesting insights on the accurate historical origins of Christianity.

Does it matter whether the raft that you sail on is the original raft or not, as long as it gets you to where you want to go?

Hey Brad, Im a huge fan and I've listened to all the audio books you have on Audible. I've been attempting to practice Zen Buddhism for a few years now and constantly find myself jumping in and out of the practice due to *place your excuse here* and constantly felt like doing research and finding information on the topic outside of your books and videos has been pretty sparce. Was wondering if you would start a series diving into the history of Dogen/Zen Buddhism and fully explaining concepts as a formal introduction for us RU-vid folk and the young generation.

Nothing is ever the same as it was. The non-permanence of everything doesn’t exclude Buddhism.

Like your style 👍 Clear as a mountain lake 📿

Would it be possible to post the audio of your videos on podcast platforms?

Yesterday(ok 3 weeks ago, I watched it yesterday) XTC, today Teenage Fan Club, Cramps a while back, great musical taste Mr.Warner.......oops forgot Dimentia 13....(hahaha). Love the musical intro's, can you tell? 😜👍😆

Hey Brad enjoyed the video. Question for you: have you ever heard that Dogen switched to Pureland before his passing or was this inaccurate? If it’s true I find it quite interesting he shifted from zen.

My wife's family are Jodo shinshu, and generally it seems to consist of chanting, occasional visits from the local priest and haka-maeri (grave visit/cleaning) at Obon. It seems fairly straightforward with not much to talk about. When I sat with a Rinzai group in Wakayama they just sat, did the minimum of ritual, and didn't philosophise or moralise much. Personally I like it like that, and though I like to read and study a lot of the key zen teachers. I like the simple, low key approach that the Japanese take, it was a relief rather than a shock if I'm honest since I didn't want to just repackage Christianity.

I think of it like this: humans are community builders, so when we come across something like religion we tend to use it as a structure to build a community around. So a lot of the time the people you tend to meet in religious circles are there for the community more than the religion and will have their own community rituals they participate in. I used to meet a lot of these people in country churches; tea and bikkies with Jan, intense philosophical conversations with the minister. There's ultimately nothing wrong with this, it's just how people work. Those of us who came to Buddhism via searching rather than being born into a buddhist community experience a kind of selection bias where the material we come into contact with is directed at seekers. I like the rituals too though; hold an incense stick and wave it around, put flowers on a shrine, say some mantras and use a mala. That stuff is very nice. I just need to accept that as a westerner, I'm not going to "get" a lot of the traditions because they tend to have been made by and for people who were born into communities that I was not and that's really fine.

Unfortunately, a lot of what we seem to get in the west these days is politics with a thin Buddhist veneer. Things are constantly changing, but it's not always an improvement.

To me Buddhism is a bit like Linux: got to have the prescribed "core" be it the Four Noble Truths, Eight Fold Path, etc or for Linux the Linux kernel and you can add on what works for you so long as it doesn't violate those prescribed "core" values." Zen is like Arch, Pureland is like Ubuntu and Vajrayāna is like Hot Dog Linux. All still Buddhism and Linux yet all very different. By the way what distro would've the Buddha used? Debian of course but Ananda would've had to install and update it. =) Buddhism and Linux work because they can adapt to needs of its members and users without compromising its core values. Years ago Dalai Lama said that Tibetian Buddhism was not for the US and that we would have to create our own. Personally I like the variations. I've belonged to a lay sangha loosely based on Zen in the US, a Vietnamese Pureland sangha both in the US and in Tp. Đà Nẵng, Việt Nam where I lived for a couple of years and Plum Village tradition sanghas in both the US and Đà Nẵng which were very different. I've also partaken in a couple of month-long retreats at Theravada monasteries in Thailand. Lastly a few month-long retreats at Plum Village Thailand and week-long retreats Blue Cliff in Pine Bush, NY. Variation is refreshing and a reminder that we are all unique beings with differing cultures. In the end whose's to say which Buddhism is the "true" Buddhism?

I just practice insight (from Argentina). Regards.

For me buddhism is a very simple thing: Its the practice of a technique different from yoga thar emphasizes "seeing clearly" or insight on top of samadhi. To me the main advancement of the buddha was to realize this, that jhana is necessary but not sufficient to provide realization and understanding about the true nature and roots of reality. Whats insight? Well zen people have a way of inducing it, theravadin people have another way, vajrayana another etc etc. Then you have the question of how you transfer the practice from the cushion to daily life and here again some sects have heavy ritualization in order to achieve this and behave nearly as a total institution, others rely on shock and confusion to help you "get it" so you never have time to adapt, etc. Then you have the questions what daily acts interfere with all the gains achieved in meditation and here we could quote the general code of conduct that underlies all major buddhist branches (with their differences) and lastly you have dhamma transmission or basically a tutoring from people further down the path so people less advanced can get help with the FAQ. All buddhisms that respect this, for me are legitimate forms of buddhism. What ill say is: i dont agree calling buddhist a practice that doesnt emphasize meditation practice as the cornerstone and above all else as this was the major advancement provided by buddha imho.

You got any more retreats coming up?

For what it's worth: The blogger David Chapman, whom I discovered you through, thinks Buddhism should more be thought of as a family of religions rather than one religion. He is an adherent of the Nyingma branch of Tibetan Buddhism and frankly finds his own religious practice, Thai Forest Tradition Theravada and Soka Gakkai as different from each other as Judaism, Christianity and Islam are. The latter three share the Old Testament, but would deny they are different branches of the same religion.

Are We in the West Getting "Real Buddhism"? No, because Brad Warner. 🤣

Buddhism (like its practioners) take the shape of the room that it inhabits This is an aspect of the quality of tathata

Whats going on in Buddhism right now is similar to what happened during the protestant reformation in the 1500s. The Catholic Church knew very well that its doctrine had strayed far from the authentic teachings of Christianity...but it counted on a ignorant public not being able to read Latin. Suddenly, Martin Luther appeared and translated the Bible into German so the common people could read it for themselves. In Dogen's time it was widely believed in China and Japan that the Avatamsaka Sutra was the first thing dictated by the founder of Buddhism. Now, with modern scholarship we know this is impossible and ridiculous...not a single professor of Buddhism at college level believes this. Its the quick and easy access to translations of original authentic scriptures that is revealing the layers of distortion built up in Buddhism over a long period of time. John R. McRae is a Professor of East Asian Buddhism and the author of 'Seeing Through Zen' an excellent example of how Zen is being exposed as a complex fabrication which has no basis in Mahayana Sutras...and even less with authentic Pali texts. There is a PDF version out there...an eye-opening read.

Much like martial arts schools in the US that have a dozen or more belts before you reach Black, there are some drive-thru Buddhist/new age groups out there. If you sit zazen properly, you're doing it. The rest is window dressing.

this is the topic of the koan “why did brad warner go to japan?”

I would assume that no we dont. I had a sensi who knew a lot, has been practicing a lot (40+ years) yet I just really could not ever get into it because of the Americanisms and attitudes, Ill go again later to try a new Zendo, but for now my interests are gone for Zen.

Love that live singing. I read all kinds of religious texts over the years and came to my own beliefs pretty organically. That's the only way to do it I think.

Ziggy is so adorable ❤

Most, the majority of Buddhism on the net or even at most temples around the US and the UK only express surface level teachings. There is a reason why you are only obtaining superficial Buddhism. Those who seek more will find it. Those who are content with little will alter their minds and enter the stream slowly. The Buddha is patient. To overwhelm the student risks them becoming frustrated and abandoning the Dharma all together. So less is more.. You'll never find higher levels of attainment from books..

Lord Buddha did leave a few clues,it is up to each person to interprete what he tought and test it out as he recommended.There is no self as such only an ego and persona which changes through life.

SONG REQUEST FOR BRAD: Disco Duck

Back in the 1990s all I could find was Tibetan Buddhism and could not for the life of me understand it. Years later finally I come across Theravada and suddenly its all clear. Its the culture of Tibet bound up in the practice and then add Western idealism and God and you have one hot mess. Same goes for Zen. The problem is Americans' nucleus is Capitalism so unless one 'gets' something, Buddhism doesn't make sense. So I went to the Thai Forest Tradition, yes Thai culture is a part of it - if you are in Thailand, however the culture doesn't affect the teachings if you are not in Thailand.

have you heard of i**aeli zen master and meditation teacher, nissim amon? wow, just wow, i'm speechless. i'd be interested how you relate to such phenomena..

How about those forest hermit Theravadans tho huh? Yeesh. I sure hope those guys aren't the ones who have it right.

Have you even read Dogen on the Lotus Sutra? Lol. Dogen & Zen are NOT "rational". Just because you choose to ignore Dogen when he delves into the "mystical" doesn't mean mystical doesn't exist in Zen.

Buddhism is not a monolith. Especially if you are coming off shrooms and Terence McKenna (I love him), you'll find Buddhist temples in Asia tame by comparison. I have been to Thailand and visited many temples as a tourist. I had a tourist experience, not a spiritual experience. What else would it be? I was there for a week. Even if I had spoken to monks, it would've been a tourist conversation.

Nothing is fixed.

Bradism

It is a good question. Theravada Abhidhamma Pitaka contains the core teachings in Buddhism. Thank you.

As far as historical records shows buddhism was a shramana (ascetic) tradition which had more to do with monkhood and involved lots of rules and regulations on how to live in that setting. But after death of buddha itself its followers started changing it so no one is following real buddhism. Buddhism is simple,go into regions away from human settlements for calm surroundings and start enquiry of your mind and avoid any temptation like intoxicants money and women. But these simple things are hardest to do that's why buddhism declined so rapidly.

Rinpoche is a reincarnated master.

Can't say I agree that Gnosticism can claim as much a place as "Original Christianity". I think it's highly unlikely that the historical Jesus would teach ideas like that.