@@user-account-not-found Isnt willfull ignorance a form of dishonesty? isnt avoiding listening because you know you get schooled a form of dishonesty? Isnt faith itself a form of dishonesty? Creationism and i could argue theism is dependend on dishonesty in one way or another.
@@user-account-not-found Matt read the words directly from the book, word for word and the caller said "it doesn't say that" - even after he read the same words himself. If that's not being dishonest then idk what is.
@@thomasstuart6861 bullshit. There was nothing inspired about the bible, and revising it so it doesn't use harsh words anymore is covering up everything that is wrong with the book. Kidnapping is not slavery. And behind dishonest about it makes you dishonest too.
I think he was for real. I think that caller was a perfect example of most Christians that do not actually read their bible, or cannot comprehend what they read. He had never questioned anything good he was told about his bible and he could not fathom that the Bible is not the “good book” he has believed all his life
Yup, the biggest problem is that they hear their church leader say something to make it ok and they just go along with it. Rarely do they actually contemplate the issue at hand.
Can I just shout out Matt and this entire channel! I’ve been an atheist for the past 3 years. I was raised a Christian, and this channel helped me so much!!
@@stanstaniboy7655 You should try reading the bible sometime It says a lot of different things than what some folks will lie to you about what it says.
@@9432515 so what ? All that means is the Bible doesn’t condone kidnapping your slaves . It’s fine if you buy them or get them thru warfare . Do try again snowflake
That stealing line sounds like it's talking about stealing slaves. "If they are found in POSSESSION" So if you steal a slave from another slave owner, that's a sin. If you buy your slaves legally, that's fine. That's what i got anyway.
That's exactly what it's talking about. The definition of stealing is taking someone else's property without permission. The phrase "steal a man" is presupposing the man as property, in other words a slave.
It's generally understood to forbid all kidnapping. However, it only applies to israelite kidnappers; buying humans that were kidnapped by non-israelites is fine (leviticus 25)
@@9432515 Leviticus 25:44-45 Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property.
@@9432515 I am not, nor is Matt. You seem to fall into the same category as Kendall. It condemns kidnapping, while endorsing slavery. I'm sorry that you can't make your book mean something other than what it says. I can tell it's got your feelers all in a tizzy.
I’m a recent agnostic, and what cracks me up is that I became agnostic from the research I did when I was actually trying to be a better Christian apologist. Life is funny
@Black Sun Obelisk Here is the first one I came across when I saw your post. "Kay ... do you have a birth certificate? If you do, did you know that you are a slave????"
Caller: "I found a verse that says kidnapping is bad, therefore the bible is without slavery!" To paraphrase _Willy Wonka & the Chocolate Factory_ : "It's all there, black and white, clear as crystal! You lose! Good day, sir!"
I have a hard time with the dishonesty thing because in order to do that you have to have some amount of intelligence. There has been disingenuous people in the past and those are obvious. I can't remember his name but Mark sounds familiar whereby he would say " Are you going to let me fucking finish" all the time.
Dont appeal to the dictionary, thats actually a logical fallacy. Instead, when you read what the scriptures say in full context, you understand that its describing slavery and kidnapping in separate verses, and one is explicitly allowed and the other forbidden, as per the rules that supposedly come from a God. And if we actually think about it a bit, we can actually understand why PEOPLE laid out these rules given the culture they had at the time. Kidnapping people would of course be viewed as wrong and illegal, because the kidnapper hadnt bought the person from anyone, therefore it would be akin to stealing, and stealing was also considered to be wrong, because it was someone else's property that they worked for. Now, not all people were owned by someone of course, but if they allowed for kidnapping to be legal, then that would mean that a fellow Israelite could come to your house, take all your children, and do with them as they please, sell them as slaves, etc. So they would be making money from taking people's children, literally, and thats definitely a crime. When it comes to slavery however, it was considered to be legal and moral, because the slaves were people that had become property and were owned by someone through legal means, often by war and conquest, which involved "work" and was a dangerous profession to say the least. Therefore, slavery was legal, especially since a slave was something that can be bought and sold, virtually an infinite amount of times, or at least until the slave dies or is rendered "damaged" and no longer worth buying. This is why those 2 are separate things, and one is allowed while the other is prohibited in the Bible. And of course the moral aspect of those things hardly ever came into play. All thought behind it was in terms of pure economics and profit to be made from property owning citizens at the time, this is why kidnapping was illegal, they wouldnt want to lose their wealth/children to bandits and crooks.
Morpheas Yes I agree with you, but and it’s a big BUT, we now consider slavery totally abhorrent. A god, if people believe in such a deity, should be wise enough to know this. It would have been easy to add another commandment to the list, - thou shall not own people as a property. Easy but the fact that the bible doesn’t include this, shows no “higher” being was involved/exists.
@Black Sun Obelisk You’re a God botherer AND a sovereign citizen idiot too? 😂 Please don’t be a flat earther as well, you’d win the trifecta of stupid!
@@9432515 Slaves could be purchased, children born to slaves were property of the master, and prisoners could be taken as slaves. So no, you're talking shit again.
Matt literally read him the verses, word by word, and Kendall had the audacity to say "it doesn't say that" - and when Kendall read the same verses himself, he stopped himself short and tried to quick-think his way around it. 7:18 - 8:17 . Also, I love Jenna
@@tomjackson7755 I get that inclination too. He won't debate Matt, which tells me any argument in his videos are incredibly weak, so not worth even a peek myself. Perfect preview already in the comments.
@Black Sun Obelisk >>>WATCH THE VIDEOS I OFFER OR YOU WILL REGRET IT That’s called an attempt of “emotional manipulation”. It won’t work. And you should be ashamed for trying.
This whole conversation in a nutshell: "The Bible doesnt support slavery" *Matt reads a verse word for word which clearly shows the Bible supports slavery* "No it doesnt say that"
At 05:30 - Kendall: "Are you a Biblical Scholar?" - Matt: "Yes, Motherfucker! Way more than you are..." That's telling 'em, matt!!
4 года назад
Slavery is by far one of the most controversial topics and subjects in this book of garbage.. 😂😂. These stupid charlatans make all kinds of silly justifications and apologetics to explain away obvious slavery in the bible. One verse which clearly indicates that slavery wasn't condemned in the bible is Ephesians 6:5 :"Slaves, obey your human masters with fear and trembling, in the sincerity of your heart, as you would Christ" If someone really wanted you to be free from bondage of slavery, they won't be telling you to obey your masters. Obeying your masters means you are willing to remain subjugated and subservient, which doesn't help you in freeing yourself. Choosing death over perpetual longterm slavery is something any sane person would do. These people are just too stupid to even read their own bible. 😂 1 peter 2:18: "Slaves, in reverent fear of God submit yourselves to your masters, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh." Submiting even to harsh masters gives them more reason and freedom to matreat you and make you subservient to them. The book of bullshit obviously condones slavery. Lol Leviticus 25:44: "As for your male and female slaves whom you may have: you may buy male and female slaves from among the nations that are around you"... Yep u can BUY other humans The hot steaming book of bullshit condones buying and purchasing humanbeings like as if they are property, which is just like the literal transtlantic slave trade in the Americas. This is blattant slavery you Christfarts.
@@9432515 the "especially with" sort of proves the point: the implication of that is there are other motivations behind man stealing OTHER than selling them into slavery.
@@9432515 that's entirely incorrect, hebrews were allowed to by slaves from other people and they were theirs to keep forever. Leviticus 25: 44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.
... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ....why did he have a _paper bible_ anyway?! wasnt he calling a show that he KNEW was broadcast online? (the implication being that he has an internet connection and didnt need to pretend to rifle through pages )
The caller, Kendall, responded as we might expect: You see, we are telling a grown adult, that his "Santa Clause" in neither real, nor is he a good guy, as described in his own "Holy Books". . .. But they cry: "My Santa does exist! I know he exists!"
You can't thank a god that, according to you, atheists don't exist because if you're thanking him for anything, then you're admitting to his existence.
@@9432515 Slaves could be purchased, children born to slaves were property of the master, and prisoners could be taken as slaves. You want to try that again, shit eater?
The answer to your question depends on their mindset. If you value reason and logic, then yes, you won't stand a chance against Matt (or any good debater for that matter; an argument is sound and valid or it isn't, and that can be shown) with outragious claims. If, on the other hand, truth is a personal thing for you (although you're just parroting what you've been indoctrinated with), and you expect your opponent to be of the same mindset, you may well think there's a chance you win. All required is gaining the upper hand and "straightening out" the current opponent's mind.
Jenna, you made a great point by having the caller read the verse for himself; it was refreshing. I agree with you and look forward to the caller calling back someday to see how you debate him even more. Thank you. Matt, give your co-host a little more time and latitude to engage with the callers. Their prospective is as much appreciated. Thank you.
Kendell is just...I don't know what's wrong with his head, I seriously don't. Cognitive dissonance is a scary thing, seriously. He _literally_ read, word for word, that you can beat the slave as long as they don't die from it, and then just said 'it doesn't say you can beat them'. Just...how? It's unnerving how utterly religion can destroy a brain like this, to the point you can read 'the sky is blue' and then two _seconds_ later can come back with 'it doesn't say the sky is blue'.
Exodus 21:20 "If a man beats his male or female slaves with a rod and they die as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, for the slave is his property" The bible literally says you're allowed to beat your slaves within an inch of their life so long as they don't actually die, not only that, but it ends off with the statement "for the slave is his property" just in case it wasn't clear enough that it's specifically speaking of a human owning another human as property. The bible explicitly condones slavery, it's not even up for debate
that is a lie/ . all you atheist do is prove you do not know the bible. in atheism there is nothing wrong with harming your neighbor. the slave master was punished for harming his slaves. man you guys are pathetic.
@@johnny50424 *That* is a lie, in atheism you will be punished for harming your neighbor, it's called assault, and it will get you thrown in prison, you know what else isn't allowed in atheism? *OWNING ANOTHER HUMAN BEING.* You guys like to act as if you have the moral high ground, but the bible condones some pretty fucked up shit, shit that not only any atheist, but any member of the modern world that isn't a heartless sociopath would find absolutely disgusting
johnny 5 the slaver is not punished for harming the slave as long as the slave doesn’t die. He’s still harming the slave (the book doesn’t even specify that the slavery needs a reason, he can non-lethally beat them on a whim - how can that be moral??) It’s explicitly what the book says ...
@The Mandalorian I read it cover to cover. I would have an easier time believing that the Bible was inspired by the devil. Slavery is wrong, whether it's in the Bible or not
Matt, as an ER nurse, I applaud your position and what you have to say about the pandemic. It is all I can do to keep my tongue in my head with the "mask-holes". Stay well. See you here and on FB.
Wow he came out swinging! Lol exodus bla bla bla lol at least the guy had the balls to confront you on this topic. Most callers dodge this whole subject. Great video as always! Thanks Matt and Jenna props all day!
I love these believers who apparently have a special glossary, definition and interpretation section in their bibles that no one else has access to. Words don't mean what we think they do, believers know what the authors meant but everything is open to interpretation, but only THEIR interpretation. Amazing.
His criticism is that the bible condemns slavery as something commercial, 1 Timothy having a verse that brings up slave traders. Selling someone to another versus the laws in regards to passing slaves on to their family means that the only distinction is that slaves cannot be passed down to a non family member, because it's bad "protocol" The problem is that all that seems to conclude is that the Bible objects to selling people for the sake of money and not the "benevolent" slavery that so many apologists try to spin as just a fact of history instead of the abhorrent practice it was and still is.
The true horror of slavery is, the children of slaves are the property of the Master. By 1860, how many US Blacks were born slaves? And for how many generations back? The breeding and raising of Human Beings was a business, a money making industry.
I just wanted to scream "If you can do something without punishment, then it IS ALLOWED" maybe it doesn't say the exact words "You can beat your slaves" but it is the same damn thing!
When Matt asked the caller for his favourite version of the Bible, he said, "King James." However, when Matt asked him to read verbatim what Exodus 21:20-21 says, he quoted from the NIV, as did Matt. I don't think the caller was honest at all.
We really are a species of fools. I think he's completely real and goes through his life convinced he's got the truth and you are just confused. We're all doomed.
@Black Sun Obelisk No you have no clear evidence. If you did, why is just remaining on your playlist, the World Would Change. It hasn't. Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha.
Let's be clear on this kidnapping vs. slavery issue. If I go to a livestock auction and buy a cow, is that the same as me being a cattle rustler? No. That's what slaves were: chattel, like livestock. You couldn't kidnap or "steal" a man and make him your slave. But it was perfectly all right to buy a man from a slave trader. Then the buyer could justify it. "Hey, I didn't steal that guy! I bought him, and that's legal!" "But the guy who sold him to you probably stole him from someplace else." "Maybe. I don't know; I didn't ask. If he did, that's on him, not on me. I've got nothin' to do with that." It's how the rich have ALWAYS excused themselves and compartmentalized their actions.
@@9432515 you are dishonest to yourself and to others if you think the slaves in that time are all indebted servitude. They are objects owned by people.
If slavery in the Bible were nothing more than debt slavery then Leviticus 25:44-46 would not exclude Hebrews who could sell themselves into debt bondage.
This is the sound of desperation and denial. You can hear it in his voice. He wants so bad to believe the Good Book is actually good, and is not ready to accept that what he’s reading actually means what he knows intellectually it means
He seems to be looking for the literal phrase “you can beat slaves” written word for word in the Bible. I don’t think he would even accept “you may beat slaves” as the same point.
I don't understand what you mean! The Bible doesn't say that you can beat slaves. See, let me read it to you: "You can" Well, we have no idea what God was referring to here. Mysterious ways. If only our Fallen minds could comprehend God's wisdom, we could understand this verse. "beat slaves." Another mysterious verse! Except I know the Living God and I know He meant to put "You may not" in front of this verse. Typographical error. But still perfect, like all works of the Lord. See, nowhere in the Bible does it say you may beat slaves!
He just can’t bring himself to believe that something he cares about so deeply is less moral than he is. Because the fact he can’t except it proves that he knows it’s something horrific. So he needs to grass for straws so there isn’t a disconnect in his mind
Technically, the text says, "Punish those who are directly responsible for a servant's death", not "It's okay to beat slaves" but we all know what is being condoned. It almost sounds like "Don't get involved in how others treat servants!"
This is just sad. I just looked up Exodus 21 verse 16. It clearly says if you kidnapped somebody and try to sell them and are caught you are to be put to death. This isn't at all the same as slavery. Anybody who thinks that needs to go read it again. I have to say it is telling that even when it is read out to them the theist still dismisses scripture when it is inconvenient for them. Matt just read it out to you and gives the verses how about you go read the damn book before saying it doesn't say what it is.
@@9432515 Slaves could be purchased, children born to slaves were property of the master, and prisoners could be taken as slaves. You want to try that again, shit eater?
this guy is the poster child for for all the dishonest and confused callers that have been on this show throughout the years. lots of contenders, but i feel he really takes the throne. wow. reading the very words with his own mouth then immediately contradicting himself....
@FACE GALLON Um no. My comment states that there are people born into slavery, which basically destroys the callers argument. Don't understand how you get that I'm justifying slavery
@TickerTaallick just because someone is stating a fact doesn't mean that it's something they dean permissible. If I make a comment about fascism does that make me one? No, I'm giving info.
@Vidhya Dhara Speaking of the killing off of dissenting points of view, VOTE FOR YOUR LIFE. If drumf gets back in, we're all fucked. My OT rant for today VOTE BLUE!!!
@@9432515 Are you the caller himself?? Owning another human being (or beings) IS SLAVERY. What is referred to in Ex 21:16 is about stealing or kidnapping alone. There are specific verses in the Bible condoning the owning of people as property or slavery: Leviticus 25:44: "“‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them, you may buy slaves" This is a direct instruction on how to procure slaves and from where specifically. Leviticus 25:45: "You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property." Here it clear here that those slaves are NOT to be acquired as "bonded laborers", but acquired as PROPERTY. It even says that these slaves can be passed on as inheritance or inherited property to the slave owner's next generation in the very next verse. Leviticus 25:46: "You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly." These are clear instructions on procuring, owning, and passing as property to the next generations of humans. This is SLAVERY. Quote the specific verse where slavery or forced servitude is condemned in the Bible!
