Audiophile Roundtable: AP, MOFI, RHINO, Blue Note with special guest Tom Port+Best sounding records! 

Great roundtable, thank you for making these (always learn something)!

Really enjoying these forums. And shared info. Keep them coming.👏

Great stream, special thanks to Tom Port. Not preaching but participating and sharing.

the "correct way" for an album to sound convo is interesting, but moreover reminds me of In Utero and Albini vs. everyone mix-wise. There's a situation where I think it's way more interesting to hear what others heard rather than being worried about right or wrong. That said, I'm just as interested in what the artists/engineers/etc. thought it should sound like. But I'm with Tom that there's no wrong, just preferred.

One of my favorites. A lot of good insight on this one.

Cool video as always. Mazzy; we’ve discussed this before, but AP did sell DSD downloads before.

Steve, great panel. Thanks for the discussion! Tom, nice to see you up there! Spot on as usual concerning sound. You are absolutely right about The Cars and Steely Dan best pressings 👍🏻 A few points if I may.. Would Mofi market DSD downloads? One thing to consider: What Mofi would be doing if they went that direction would not be handing over the actual 4XDSD file pre mastering. It would be the post AAA mastering through the Gain System. So the idea that they would be selling something that would be considered a flat digital transfer of the master would not occur. Personally, Im with Steve on this. I don't see it as an impossibility. Nor do I see it as threatening the physical product that they sell in SACD hybrid and vinyl form. However, I dont think it would be very successful. Acoustic Sounds tried this once before and it ran out of gas pretty much and they stopped. Just not sure there is a market for downloads. But they didnt know there was a market for One Steps either. And here we are. Right now though is the second hey day of vinyl. Just not sure it would work. What is the difference between Hi Rez downloads and what Mofi is doing? They are using analogue in the mastering chain through the Gain system. Now one may not like that they use 4XDSD as a transfer method but lets be clear that they are not simply mastering purely digital. The problem with Mofi is their mastering choices, not the transfering methodology. On reissues we want (Zeppelin, Sabbath..etc) 
Unfortunately I think one of the biggest hurdles (other than licensing) is thinking with modern equipment, mastering engineers that we can somehow replicate the sound of say an RL Led Zeppelin 2. Thats a difficult if not impossible task. Why? Different equipment, time has past since all the perfect wave came together to do such. Those folks are not around. Its just not going to occur. But we could get something close to the best pressings rather than what we get many times. Totally disagree with the idea that "artists know best" when it comes to how their records should sound. And my difference of opinion on this isnt even based upon the idea that every is subjective concerning what we like as far as sound quality. Remember at one time Jimmy Page and the band approved all the originals. Also, after 40 yrs and 600 blasting concerts, do you really want Jimmys ears on this? No. Sorry. No way do I want Brian May to make the final decision on Queen reissues. If he is so astute at knowing what a good record sounds like then why is that Queen boxset pretty much regarded as trash? Now I will agree that many times we "audiophile" to death rock records. Scooped mids are an absolute assault on the art of what is rock. Same with bloated bass. That, I will agree with. Great discussion guys!

Great chat, guys. Enjoyed this. -- Mike

Love the panel. Disagree about the Japanese pressings. Granted I have a few that are just “okay” I would say 95% of the other ones are phenomenal with almost a half “breath taking” and my gear is no slouch. Top of the line Rega gear with equally great Paradigm speakers plus great interconnects, power conditioner etc. etc. etc.

When talking about the Warner Brothers “Green / Olive” pressings y’all omitted to mention Tim’s great video “Olives Please”. Very nice video about the subject.

Black Sabbath's debut, sounds fantastic! Digitally sourced??? Label: Rhino Records (2) - RR1 1871, Warner Bros. Records - 1871 Format: Vinyl, LP, Album, Reissue, Remastered, 180g, Gatefold 2016

I love the Steven Wilson remix of Aqualung. My og sounds great, but well worn... I have the import ep of Tull's Solstice Bells, but I have to dig it out to see how it sounds before buying the Wilson Remix. I think it's a different song list, so I will probably get it anyway. I'm on a fixed income, so I buy cautiously.

You can't paint Japanese pressings with a broad brush. Some suck some are Ok and some are phenomenal.

Wow! Tom is spot on with his Stravinsky analogy! I cannot stand the versions of The Firebird where Stravinsky is conductor. I much prefer Dorati’s version, and even Bernatein’s. Excellent example to prove a good point, Mr. Port!

Glad I caught this and thanks for posting Steve. Even in cdn $, The Cars Rhino seems like a good price, and shipping is a realistic $16 US International, but they do charge gst. Should be interesting comparing this to my Cars cdn og and mofi...cheers ✌️

Mazzy, I just wanted to point out that the Analogue Production UHQR are being distributed. I was in a record shop in Vancouver and bought the two Steely Dan UHQRs. The owner told me the only reason they can get them is because they can't sell them at a fast enough pace on the web site. I even saw CSN MOFI one step on the wall. It's been a long time since I've seen an MOFI records in our local shops.

Haha, I love how consistent Mazzy is with his criticism of the ridiculous UHQR boxes. I own two UHQRs and stopped buying them because those boxes are so obnoxiously pointless - I mean, the record jacket doesn’t even properly fit inside it so they have to put padding in there to keep it from jostling around. It’s a giant box that takes up so much shelf space for zero reason; it’s not like there’s a nice hardcover book in there with the album or something. Just a complete waste of materials, shelf space and money. Shelf space is at SUCH a premium for so many people including myself that it just makes me grumble to look at the ones I own. In fact, I had to take the actual albums out of the boxes and just put those on my record shelves, with the outer box just sitting in my attic collecting dust. It’s just frustrating because UHQRs are so incredibly high quality - they’re truly special releases - yet those boxes sort of ruin it. I just can’t accept spending $125+ on something where I’m going to keep and appreciate half of it, and the other half just gets tossed in a dark attic. All you need is the nice, glossy Stoughton gatefold, which they already come in! That is “premium” enough! You don’t need the superfluous extra packaging that adds zero extra value beyond jacking up the price. I don’t understand why Chad doesn’t at least offer the *option* of buying the album on its own at a lesser price, and then offer the “deluxe” premium box experience to customers who want that, for a higher price.

THANK YOU !!!! At last someone else other than Mike at the InGroove agrees that ERC are a rip-off. Thanks lads, really interesting video

Love that shirt Steve!

Hi Steve, Great talk, l watch your team on line all the time, I would like to comment on your talk regarding Vinyl pressing from Japan as I have a huge collection around 2,000 LP's. all in EX condition from 50's 60's 70's and 80's, from Jazz to Pop/Rock, must say I think they are great sounding and at this moment have Dark Side Of The Moon playing ( stereo EMS-80324) outstanding sound. kind regards Brett from New Zealand, PS huge Beatles Fan.

Great selection of panelists. Good to have various options. 👍🏻

The best one yet! Tom Port is a great addition.

The first Cars album original sounds great, easy to find in good condition at nice prices. I have the Coltrane in the Atlantic Records Poetic Champions lp box Listening to Steve’s interview with Kevin Gray - I caved on the Coltrane and bought the new JC Rhino release

There is a third reason Mofi prefers DSD transfers. That being they can go track by track when necessary and correct the azimuth. Something that can't be done if cutting from an analog tape.

Could the muffled sound that one hears while playing a record potentially be due to a combination of factors like their stereo, turntable, and needle? This could indeed be the case unless a significant number of individuals report the same issue with sound quality.

The Rhino OBI looks similar to the VMP releases.

Great panel Steve! I did not hear about the Rhino HiFi series so I just ordered the two items and only 15.99 shipping to eastern Canada. It might take a month but eventually I will get them! I have purchased DSD files from ProStudioMasters in the past but FLAC player changed their software and dropped DSD playback capability! Cheers.

what are the links to these facebook groups you always mention? where nathan reviews and your other mofi groups?

Gotta reject Mazzy's opening comment(s) re: newly announced premium "Rhino High Fidelity Series" reissue efforts, though he also acknowledged the positives too. IMO, kinda conflating "premium". A) AAA vinyl, cut by KG, w/ NEW liner notes, pressed at a select plant, in a g-fold jkt IS "premium" any way you look at it in 2023. B) Obviously, these audiophile reissue series, from every (100%) vinyl house, are literally years in the making and no less "complicated dances" with all concerned so kudos to Rhino for making the decision & investment back in COVID times to enter the specialized & small-market "audiophile vinyl" market! C) $39US + S&H is an admirable kick-off $ price. D) We want as many music firms in the audiophile vinyl / VC world as we can get folks! Moreover, EVERY entry to market attempt in the AAA vinyl world and w/ transparency should be congratulated. E) A great lucky draw for ME but Rhino's artist/title selection, Cars & Coltrane, hits a "HR" for ME w/ their initial title choice. F) For all herein, let's NOT conflate certain "premium" reissues like UHQR, MFSL One Step, Craft Small Batch, ERC's, with the likes of the great BN CV & TP series, Acoustic Sounds, AP's, OJC, Craft, Speakers Corner, Impulse, etc. reissue series. It's a SIGNIFICANT and fantastic differential boys!! Lest we forget the VERY FEW players in the AAA vinyl market just < a decade ago!! Or worse, those hype stickers claiming the "mastered from tapes...." to the new and/or experienced vinyl buyer population. Or worse still, purposely lying about their products. Breathe in & welcome these new AAA players!!

Mazzy we have Music on Vinyl charging near $40 for a Digital to DMM LP so this Rhino seems reasonable to me. Also, Speakers Corner moved into this price range two years ago. The question is whether the condition of the master tape is pristine?

I like that motto "triple A from kevin gray " , can i use that?😊

The Cars first US pressing sounds absolutely amazing. Why ever would I buy the new one!

22:10 Acoustic Sounds had a SuperHiRez component they shut down due to poor sales. It could have been a marketing issue, but I can't see MoFI launching a successful downloads business capable of competing with HDTracks

The Kevin Gray Rhino Black Sabbath (Self Title) is amazing. It is basically just as good as the original 1970 pressing. I have em back to back. I can’t detect much different at all

$40 is too expensive for a 33rpm double-LP. I’m committed to not paying more than $25 maximum for a single-LP 33rpm. The Cars is available on SACD for $30, surely better SQ than any new vinyl remastering?

I think the album with the least amount of dead wax is Bless Its Pointed Little Head.

By the way, artists' "authority" can be pretty dicey. Brian May and Jimmy Page are 75 and 79 respectively and have played thousands of live concerts where the SPLs were deep into the ear damaging levels. One would expect them to make their recordings bright and compressed now. Only way they can even hear them

“The Cars” wasn’t mastered by Roy Thomas Baker. It was produced by him. It was mastered and cut at Sterling Sound by George Marino.

Wow!! Did Tom Port just pop-poo the Vertigo UK Black Sabbath? For the US versions?!? damn!

Moreover. The comment about the Japanese preferring US pressings over their own Japanese pressings is Absolutely NOT TRUE! My son has lived in Sapporo Japan for 12 years as an interpreter (he is also a fellow audiophile) the Japanese buy US pressings almost for the novelty of it. Just as we in the US may like to have a Canadian press or different country “variant”. My son claims in his estimation that AT LEAST 80% of the Japanese that he is in association with prefer their Japanese pressings overwhelmingly over other pressings.

Tom Port is full of it....

So many people thinking they know the inherent quality of cds and digital. The % of them whov've heard a cd played on something like the Ayon cd player or the Burmester player?.....ZERO %. There are no weak areas at all in sound quality if played back on equipment beyond their experience. You don't have to go up to the price point of my two examples to get sound quality that would give a multi thousand dollar turntable/cartridge combo trouble.

Another great chat guys. If you ever want to put these up on Vinyl Community Podcasts, let me know Steve! Have a great weekend ✌🏻

Poor take on the MoFi Cars self-titled. It sounds fantastic. Not surprised to hear that from him though.

Rhino......loved you since the 80's. Release better titles. Cars, Coltrane have been done.

Kevin gray being cloned haha. Good question tho, who is the next Kevin gray?

Can’t buy a thrill has always been a $10-$20 record tbh

For me, Tom saying that he thinks the original black label Can't Buy A Thrill is significantly better than the UHQR (a comparison I have done side by side with notes) makes me question either his perspective or his system. Either way, that's one verifiable comparison that I am just baffled by.

The Cars s/t first pressing is fantastic. This announcement was a snore. I disagree with the comments regarding the Zeppelin Classic cut. They are AAA and on my system - the few I have; s/t, III, IV, Presence, SRTS - all sound pretty darn great. And I picked them up years ago at a very nice price. I do agree with 45rpm ruining the listening experience of an LP. Especially with Steely Dan - you want to kick back and drift. Get an old scratchy OG or even the SACD or just skip the release completely.

Japanese record EQ audio is different due to the nature of Japan's culture and society. It's rude to disturb your neighbors and if your stereo has a ton of bass for sure the next apt suite is going to feel it. The low end was diminished and the mids and highs are boosted on their pressings to take those factors into account.

I don’t doubt that MoFi will entertain DSD downloads going forward.

Maz thinks we can get an RL Zep II for $150!? Those days are long gone.

Sharon wants more money than Iommi. Iommi wants more money than Geezer. Ward can’t be bothered.

The Cars S/T by MOFI was really disappointing, so I’m in to see if the OG or Nautilus can be beat.

Nathan's point about Brian May is not necessarily a bad one, as Tom Port is suggesting, which would would call 'illicit appeal to authority' and yet, they are still expert witnesses and what they say has some weight no matter what. As much as author's of music might record their own versions of a great song (Stravinsky, Burt Bacharach, Otis Redding) may not be as good as other versions (Dionne Warwick and RESPECT by Aretha Franklin in the latter examples) but do express what the original authors want to convey just the same.

Great idea to have Tom Port onboard.

I could be wrong...but I think Sterling was using Neumann VMS 80 lathes in the late 70s and early 80s which incorporated a 12 bit ADC/DAC for the preview. Which means The Cars Candy-O has a low res digital step in the mastering chain.

Sorry, but original UK Black Sabbath pressings are terrible?? That is some utter horse shit right there. They sound fantastic and are superior to the US pressings. And the original pressings were on Vertigo, not NEMS.

Analog all the way. Digital to me is very shallow. No depth. No mid-range or middle and honestly it just sounds like compressed computer music. I think all mo-fi is doing is pressing a CD into vinyl.

Michael 45 never met a FREE Promo record he didn’t like or “WOW” and “Amazing” I stopped watching his “reviews” months ago. ZERO Credibility!