Audiophile Roundtable The QUEST for the best sounding records Westman,Mazzy,Edgers,Port,Goss pbthal 

Yep. All the VC RU-vidrs rave about the Neil Young and Van Halen records, for example, that Bellman has done. Then, this guy comes in and says they don’t sound good. We need him to comb thru all the pressings from the past to find the needle in the haystack. Not just a particular pressing, but the handful of copies of that pressing that will be “next level” and take us to some sort of audio heaven? Seriously, if I bought into his schtick, I’d be so frustrated that I would abandon the hobby all together.

"The Vertigo black Sabbath sounds very dubby to us" 🥴

U can mail them to me. 😮

Good observation! Tom presents a VERY different perspective from the other forum guests, and one well worth looking into! It's certainly changed my perspective on analog audio in countless ways.

I stand corrected, the album was indeed recorded in England. Not sure how I got that wrong, but it probably has to do with the right domestic pressings sounding like they were sourced from the master, and the UK imports sounding like they weren't, George Peckham or no George Peckham. Most of his work is not just hard to beat, but impossible to beat. He did cut a very bad version of Badfinger's Straight Up for the UK market. I wrote about it: "We had an original British pressing in our shootout, unbeknownst to me as it was playing of course. And guess where it finished: dead last. The most thick, congested, crude, distorted, compressed sound of ALL the copies we played. We love the work of Porky, Pecko, et al. in general, but once again this is a case where a British Band recorded in England sounds best on domestic vinyl. (McCartney’s first album on Apple is the same way.)" As for the British pressing having superior sound, that has not been our experience. It is surely superior to most domestic copies of the album, which tend to be congested, distorted and dark. We played a few UK pressings over the years and none of them sounded good to us. There may be such a thing, but we have not heard it and remain as skeptical as ever. The only difference I can see in the track listings is that the domestic pressing has one extra track, Watching the Detectives. TP

It was one persons opinion. I personally disagree , but we don’t censor anyone’s opinion .

@@mazzysmusicthe guy didn’t say censor anything. He gave his opinion on Port’s (ridiculous) opinions.

@@Groover71 I agree that some of Port’s comments were over the top, ridiculous. Agree or not, that’s been his takes on most of these reissues for sone time now. But there have been other comments and messages that all of us should call Port out or delete his comments or remove the entire video. I disagree with that. Most of us enjoy most of the work that both CB and BG do. Not everything , but many of their record cuts. Every person presents their take, and the discussion goes where it goes.

I said I liked Chris Bellman. He did a good job on Brothers in Arms.

Thanks. I just love talking music. I only know what I know but it’s a lot more enjoyable than talking politics!

​@@geoffedgers9350You seem like a great dude who loves music. Don't drink the Kool-aid.

Thanks! I just like listening to records and want to find the best sounding ones I can. I have no allegiances other than to music. I also would love folks to not yell at each other so much!@@hurkamur1

Hopefully it warms up. Yes. This was a fun one. Thanks for tuning in.

I have the Nagoaka MP110 and I hate it w/ a passion. Worst cart I've ever owned.

I just played mine again and it sounds as good as I remember.

Next time. Will get one. I promise.

I really appreciate that. There is a lot to unpack in this one.

Thanks for watching. Music is so subjective. But this was a fun discussion.

If Robert Plant was sitting in Tom’s listening room he could decide what the best sounding version of Zeppelin 2 is. Reviewers have a job to promote their views and products in some cases. Mazzy is honest and fun to listen to! Keep up the great content Steve, appreciate it!

Yes. Was a lot of fun. Thank you.

Maybe Borden is the first AI channel in the vinyl community. Hmmmmmmm???

When he referred to the "black boxset" he's refering to the digital box from rhino in 2010 that had the faux lizard leather, not the AP 45s. However he has trashed AP and the 45s at other times which is crazy cuz they're awesome. He has a blog that rips up pretty much every single audiophile reissue from AP, Mofi, bellman, gray, grundman, etc

No. He trashed the MoFi and the black box. He hasn’t heard the AP 45.

Yes please

I have the 2013 OJC Quality Records Pressing and on my system it sounds very good! (2 tall multi-driver open baffle dipole line arrays with 13 drivers a side driven by an all tube Ayon Orion II, biamped with a Crown 2502 driving 2-15" dipole woofers)

I loaned that out to a friend / it’s our gold standard and we use it to test against others / so I don’t have stamper numbers. It’s a 1976 SML from Japan thought. Is it the best? It’s the best I’ve heard on my system.

Here’s to Rhino repressing Sabbath S/T next year. 🙏

LOL, true…. although, this is pretty in the weeds stuff.

Sorry, I respectfully disagree. You had a bunch of people on there with different experiences and opinions but speaking to each other with enthusiasm and passion. What are you looking for in an audio video cast?

@@geoffedgers9350 I watch a lot of these, and enjoy most of them, this one included, but I can see the OP’s point. Someone new to collecting might confuse some of the strong opinions on individual pressings as bagging on someone who might enjoy what they already have. I don’t feel that way, but I can see how others might. That’s all I was agreeing with.

Do we need to do that? Seems like too many already.

@@geoffedgers9350 clearly not this

Does shootouts almost on the daily. He gets loaned the high dollar pressings from all over the place. I'd put money down that he knows more than Tom port about hot pokers. Tom Port actually said the Sabbath Vertigos sound "dubby", and Bellman sucks. He's pounding his own Kool-Aid 😂

I probably have many By accident

Thank you Mazzy! For always being the voice of reason. If I had to worry that I’d never get the best listening copy, because I don’t have Tom Ports stereo and team of minions to sort through hundreds or thousands of copies: I would be frustrated out of my enjoyment of this hobby.

The knowledge base you get from spending over two decades doing multi-record shootouts of thousands of titles results not only in about as concrete of pressing knowledge such knowledge gets, it gives you about as good an ear for evaluating records as is humanly possible. Do your homework before making such comments!

I take it that sharing that knowledge in this forum is it’s purpose and value. And to have fun. „I know better but do not tell“ is selfish imo. Never mind, it‘s supporting diversity in the channel.

LOL that is my garage sale vintage system. I do not do the shootout files on that

@@pbthal AHA! So that is where the 'Dirty Patrick' comes from that I've been hearing... BTW, kudos on your MM stand! Microline all the way... 👍

Well, yes, except that when you a record and you hear a copy that’s just superior to what you’ve heard before, it’s really satisfying. (To me.) I had that experience with the remixed Replacements record Tim (new and reasonably priced) and the German Magical mystery tour (old and expensive)!

Ditto! I've had this experience so many times now I can't even count them. In many cases I've come to love a record that I never gave a lick abvout before I heard an outstanding pressing of it. D. Crosby's solo debut jumps to mind. Also a good example of a Bellman remaster that doesn't hold a candle to even an average early pressing, BTW.@@geoffedgers9350

Engineered doesn’t mean great music. Did it get a Grammy for the music ?

Lots to digest today. Was a fun one.

I have the OJC and the Single Origin Craft version. I find the Small Batch too brite,.enjoy the OJC more. But I’m sure it’s system dependent and taste.

Hey. I have a mono cart on my second table so I used that. Also… if that’s your favorite copy, that’s great. I just found another copy better.

On a low end table and arm any cart is going to sound worse than on a higher end model. My system is not low end and I have the luxury of being able to compare every single hardware change over the years via my needledrops

Patrick… of course, but a MC is less forgiving on a low end arm. Most low end arms don’t have the mass necessary to be compatible with a low compliance MC cartridge. I was not insinuating that your table is low end. I know it’s not. I am curious how you find a MM better performing than a MC, not knowing what MM cartridge you prefer or which MC cartridges you have tried. As I’m sure you are well aware, there are countless variables that are at play as well. Mazzy… I am curious how and why you have changed your opinion on the small batch vs. the ‘82 OJC. In your review video, you thought OJC was tipped up and the small batch was better in that regard. I get and respect people changing opinions (I do frequently) but I would like to know what precipitated your reassessment. Bottom line is things are never as black and white as often presented. I’m happy that we can all find happiness to suit our tastes and choices. If I wasn’t so happy with the small batch, I would be inclined to buy the R2R from The Tape Project. I’m curious, but not $500 curious. ✌️

@@worksbau I actually had a line about compliance in my "unedited" response :), I know you weren't saying my system was low end, hard to get "tone" in text