We have to choose a direction, accuracy or beauty. The McIntosh MC275 amp, www.stereophil... The Benchmark AHB2 amp, benchmarkmedia... Follow me on Twitter: / audiophiliacman
I was in the accuracy camp for a long time, and forced myself to suffer through many unpleasant listening sessions for the sake of listening to music as it was intended to be. As I got older I realized that was silly and I should just enjoy music how I like to hear it. So now I have a very musical system that’s probably not very accurate...but to my ears it’s wonderful to listen to.
Accurate....who wants to listen to accurate crap as it was recorded in the 50s? Nah, i think i'll sugar it up for just the way i like it. Life is short, but stupidophiles don't get it.
As an electronic engineer, I am very comfortable is taking lots of measurements and geeking out with a pretty complete lab in my home, to me it is fun and relating results to circuit topographies. I like test gear far more than hi-fi gear although there are some technically beautiful designs and layouts I can appreciate. Test gear, for design beauty, trumps hi-fi any day, where usually layout is more influenced by how it impresses visually than electronically. But all that said, it is a different pastime than music. I was also a recording engineer for decades and had a large well known multi-room studio and actually creating the music event had zero interest in accuracy and only the experience. A control room sounds very different than a living room. We were interested inconsistency, not accuracy and we had to master different versions for the different storage/reproduction systems. LPs pressings got a different tweaking in mastering than RR or cassette or CD. The expected listening environment influenced the mastering so none of the versions was the same experience as the final mix before mastering for the medium. So what was more accurate? It did not matter, why bother when the experience and reaction/perception was all that mattered. Until there are standardized listening environments and conditions even talking about accuracy makes little sense. After listening for 30 minutes alone in a room are you smiling? What is your impression of work if in a social environment? It might be very different than if heard the same material for the first time while alone or in a car versus a home or with earphones. What seems strange to me is how much emphasis is placed on equipment when the amps and speakers make less difference than many other variables. It is human nature in consumer society to assume the easiest variable is the one focused on. There are great debates over amps but any difference an amp can make is swamped by the much bigger difference in moving the speakers a foot or the carpet, room shape and materials but that is too hard to think about so replacing multi-kilo buck amps or DAC. It is not just hi-fi where people always attack the easiest influence even if it is a very very minor contributor. I am a photographer also and get asked daily what camera to buy. I see fans of the hobby/profession constantly upgrade but what they stress and assume to be worth the $10,000 upgrade in the camera body and a couple lenses is insignificant compared to the influence of slightly better control of lighting, composition or posing skills. Those latter are creative zero cost upgrades that really matter but are seldom worked on. In any controlled test, no one can tell then difference between a $500 camera and $10,000 camera but everyone can see the difference in minor differences in composition or use of light/shadow which is free. For me, the best sounding system I experienced was in a hallway with speakers mounted in the ceiling and some stereo receiver playing a bit too loud. The only element that made it different from all the others was meeting the unknown girl standing next to me, who later became my wife. Every aspect of our mood, environment, state of rest, concerns, etc has far more influence on our perception of an outside stimulus than any minor technical differences in amps or speakers. If one wants to be pleasantly surprised with music, be in a receptive mood and surroundings. That contribution the listener makes to their own perception is very great, more than what any amp designer could ever contribute. One well-known HiFi critic reviewed a recording I was involved with and he wrote extensively about imaging and sound stage and details that were firm in his mind. He even talked about the position of instruments in the room. I am sure he firmly believed it all but it was not a group at all, but single instruments recording individually over a 6 month period when musicians were free for a few hours. The project was done in three different studios, whichever was free at the time. But we all do that, create a visual and sonic visualization in our minds that is what we remember or from which we draw our assumptions and judgment. It is all just air pressure differences and our brains use some very limited input to create a whole visualized event in our brains. If you like a music experience, much of the positive attributes were right from within your own brain. When under a lot of stress or in a foul mood it is unlikely the exact same stimulating pressure gradients would have produced the same experience inside your imagination where it all resides. I find, however, that no system is worth more than the $10-30 ticket to a live performance so don't even have a hi-fi system at all just so my experience is with receptive ears and brain. Not being surround by music makes me more sensitive and receptive to it when I experience it being made live several times a week.
Been through that myself. A difference I'll note is that I record concerts and I can hear more detail after mixing/mastering than in the hall. That's with sound reinforcement and poor seating position though - an all acoustic gig where I can listen near the performers is another story.
I once went to a fellow audiophile's place (in Brooklyn!) to hear his system, accompanied by a fellow who reviews very expensive equipment. This audiophile was a fan of Audio Note UK, but couldn't actually afford to buy their stuff, so he built his own speakers and single-ended amps. It was the most euphonic system I ever heard. Every record sounded rich and plummy. As we were riding home on the subway, my companion described the system as dripping honey over everything.
I also didn't have the money to buy Audio note gear. But I did find a company in Canada that sold Audionote kits. They are reconised by Auduo note as these kits include audio note made capacitors. I bought a pre-amp kit that was a tubed power stage, tubed phono stage, and tubed line stage for about $2,000.00. This was a few years ago. I don't know if they are still around.
The first time I heard Klipshorns was at my local audio store. I fell in love! This store had many other high end speakers that were more “accurate “, but I always came back to the big Klipsh speakers.
After 30 years of screwing around and chasing the "high end" audio moving target of accuracy (BTW there really is no target), I now reside firmly in the beautiful sound camp. I got involved in all of this because of my love of music not the boxes.
Agree. One of the most beautiful experiences in my life was a live, un-amplified violin solo. I strive to recreate that in my living room which means accuracy. I only wish I could remember the piece of music he was playing - any suggestions on ones I should listen to?
As an active opera choir singer, I agree. Accuracy is beautifull. Though, some pre 70's music sounds best on inaccurate Grunding mono transistor radio.
The problem I have with "Beautiful" voicing is that everything sounds like it's dulled and muted. It's as if "beautiful" means omitting the truth. When I am listening to a symphonic piece, the percussion should have bite, impact and accuracy. I don't like to hear tuned tympani sound like a simple "boomph" like it has a towel over it. Cymbals should be crisp, not ever-so-dainty.
@@scottlowell493 Yes! I love a good transient accuracy, to be able to feel the "timbre" of the percussive sounds (like being there) as opposed to simply hearing their presence (if those words work to convey my meaning).
Reminds me of what my old art teacher once said: “If you care so much about painting something as realistic as possible, why don’t you just take a picture instead”
@@qwertmom I picked three of the best draftsman in the art world. They were very accurate in representing reality, but introduced drama, too. I have been a photographer, amateur, professional, and published, for over 80 years. I've also been an artist since about two years of age and also published and exhibited. Cartier-Bresson started in fine art and, since he travelled widely, began to use the Leica camera for ease of capture. You can't always ask famous personages to sit and pose while you sketch. I care for natural music, as I hear it live. I love life, breathing it. Less so, living it through another's eyes. Accuracy is honesty; the closest to truth. I don't feel comfortable with abstract expressionism nor progressive jazz where there is no beginning, middle or end and no melodic theme. I like music, like graphic art, to tell a story. Anyone with a musical instrument can go up and down the scale at random. Anyone can get up on a stepladder and dribble paint onto a canvas, but is it art? An exhibit in Manhattan was once favorably reviewed by a noted critic as "fresh" and "creative", etc and on and on. It turned out, the paintings were done by a chimpanzee. It's tough to define fine art, but some criteria must be applied. I respect the untrained's expression, but don't feel comfortable having to live with it, nor with a less than perfect speaker system, if I have a choice.
I love my Tekton Pendragons, which seem to be a happy medium between both accurate and beautiful. Once they really truly broke in an loosened up they just got better. They’re the perfect speaker for me, and I auditioned close to 20 pairs before going with them.
@Sam Denali Oh, yeah ya did! I’ve owned mine since February, and they really do keep amazing me too. The crossover Eric designed for em is genius. Try putting your ear up to each spkr as they’re playing, and you’ll realize they’re not doing what you’d expect at all. Very cool...
@@NickP333 , I just checked, mine shipped exactly 6 years ago, how time flies ;-) They got moved several times since but I always treasured them. Finally they found a place in a living room where they truly can shine with their sound and I am very grateful for that!
When I was younger I was more into detail, now I’m older I much prefer the romance over accuracy any day as it relaxes and yet engages me much more. It’s funny as I now live in Austria close to Vienna so go to the Musikverien quite a lot. The hall has a magical sound, very romantic and engaging rather than as I have experienced in recording studies very analytical. Years ago I made the mistake of thinking my music should sound exactly how they recorded it in the studio but in real life it’s really not like that, you forget about the details and focus more on the overall experience. Measurement wise my way gets beaten every time but I care not as I actually enjoy my music now rather than simply listen for details as I did before. I realise now going to these great venues that a violinist chair creaking is not what I went to the concert to listen to and thankfully, because the sonic is warmer I don’t hear that chair creak!
Exactly, i listen to rock music been to concerts guns and roses megadeath ect enjoyed them but not exactly want the squeaking drum pedal taking dominance in the background. Prefer if the drummer is really hitting those skins and guitarist is really strumming aggressively or gently and the emotion the singer is giving. We all into different stuff but have fun and enjoy what ever you into 👍✌️
I stand in the beauty camp. I have a dedicated listening room in my house, and when it's music time I like to jam out to 70's rock with a beer in hand.
gurdyman1 1 second ago I use vintage Electro-Voice 100 dB/ 1w/1m triaxial drivers in big homemade bass reflex enclosures I built, as well as 15" OB H-frame subs crossed at 35 Hz. Very big, dynamic and exciting, just the way I like it!
My taste falls somewhere in the middle. I have Paradyme Studio 60 V.5 and have all tube gear. So, reasonable amount of accuracy with the lush sound of Prima Luna preamp and power amp. Happiness in the middle. Oh, and dual subs for the extreme low end (klipsch Sub 12) that some recording have today. I listen to records mostly but also have a fair number of Cd's. That's all for me, happy listening to all!
I guess I'm totally on the euphonic side with the mentioned McIntosh MC 275 and Klipsch la Scala speakers. I have in the same system a more "accurate" amp and speakers, but seldom listen to them.
Hi Steve, I'm listening through my *40 year old JBL 4341 Studio Monitors* .🔈🎶🎶 Akriv with four amplifiers. I love it.... It's wonderfully dynamic and accurate too. I will continue to listen to them for the next 40 years. Greetings from Hamburg, Germany, Andre🤠😎
"...depending on the genre..." Exactly! That's the key. If you listen to only very well recorded, compression free, un-manipulated, untweaked music such as most of classical, as I do, then accuracy, very logically and appropriately is the goal of your audio gear.
@@peterk8978 Extremely wide dynamic range is one obvious characteristic of the vast majority of the classical recordings in my collection so I know it's not significantly compressed.
Yeah, I am not a fan of fake reverb added to many classical recordings unless it sounds natural. Many don't sound natural and I can tell when instruments are highlighted with spot microphones. Not my cup of tea.
@@vinylrules4838 Right, it's pretty obvious to my ears when certain aspects of a recording sound other than what I'm used to hearing at live events. Even studio recordings can still sound relatively lifelike and natural sounding if done right.
Fast, transient and rhythmic bass for me is a must. It makes your feet dance. As for mids and highs, that’s what makes the magic for me. I want accuracy in the low end, and beauty and magic everywhere else
Man, i’m from Brasil. Hi to Lithuanian fans, i’m a fan too, i think you give many, many great, and free advices. I’m learning from you. Thanks for sharing.
I'm listening to you right now through a pair of Dynaco A25's on bose 901 stands, powered by a NAD 3020. My main system is a McIntosh MC250, Klipsch Forte 1's and a diy tube pre-amp. I would say I love the warm euphonic sound. The look of the components is also a big deal to me, every piece of gear I own, to me, is piece of art and just looking at it warms me up before I even start to listen. The Forte's were definitely a step up in accuracy, detail and punch from my A25's and KLH Model 5's (very different speakers I know) but not enough to lose that full juicy sound I've really come to love. Now I did hunt down an old AudioControl 520 EQ (AHHH an EQ!!) to tame the mids of the Forte's down just a bit... haha
It seems I am on the same path as you. I'm just a little behind you now and hoping to eventually find the McIntosh and some nice Klipsch speakers. I just picked up a NAD 3020 and I also have the dynaco A25 speakers. I'll have to try pairing them up when I get settled into my new house. I have a ton of other stuff but was wondering what speakers to try with the new NAD.
You’re videos bring me back to reality Steve and I thank you for them. I love music but I think I may be a perfectionist and that is why I am an audiophile always seeking accuracy in reproduction of music. When I first became an audiophile I had difficulty appreciating music played over inferior equipment such as a simple radio or the car stereo. After several years of that I found I was enjoying listening to music in the car more than my hi end audio system as with it I was listening for the quality of the sound rather than simply enjoying the music. I wonder, could it be this is true of other audiophiles?
Yesterday I put on Miles Davis' My Funny Valentine cd. It sounded great on my humble Andrew Jones' Pioneer system, spacious, warm, and quiet like you could hear a pin drop in that recording. Then I put on Ry Cooder's Get Rhythm cd which I just picked up. Wow. I don't know how he got the sound on that record, much different from his others, but I never heard that cd before, almost metallic sounding like a classic chrome car from the 50's. You could almost call some of the slide guitar on it x-rated. Deep slide. I checked the liner notes. It said Direct Metal Mastering by Stephen Marcussen. Maybe that was it. Both sounded great but wildly different recordings. I have no idea about accuracy. But both sounded accurate re. the sound of the instruments. But it was the beautiful sound of both recordings that blew me away. They were both very well made. For me, accuracy and beauty maybe somewhat intertwined and not mutually exclusive.
"For me, accuracy and beauty maybe somewhat intertwined and not mutually exclusive." I was having difficulty determining where I stood on this somewhat philosophical issue. Then reading through the comments you nailed it, Mondo.
Since there are so many factors in both electronic recording and playback, accuracy can only be determined with reliability if we can compare original performance with no intermediary electronics to playback on a sound system - something very few of us can do. Thus, we determine for ourselves if playback seems lifelike to us, which will necessarily be subjective.
I'm impressed that you can find interesting topics day after day. How hard is it to shut all that mental noise off when you sit to listen to music? I have found myself happy with the music, whether it's on my iphone, in the car, bluetooth headphones at work or on my 90s era entry-level rig. When the music is sweet, I don't think about how realistic the timbre of the instrument or soundstage location of the drum kit is. I just find my groove. There's just something otherworldly about live music and I've never experienced that with hi-fi, so, I just enjoy the music. Having said that, I do enjoy hearing the audiophile recordings you have helped to produce. I've been re-listening to the Ultimate Demonstration Disc (vol. 1) lately, and it's great! So, thank you!
Steve this was the most epiphonic show yet for me. Cause I'm in the process of getting a totally new rig from scratch. Being out of it for 8 years & grew out of my old stuff. So today I made the decision that I want to lean towards euphonic route Being a musician. But still keeping my studio monitors to listen for reference on new albums but yes going towards an amp and speakers with some color for pleasure listening 👌 thank u Steve ur my favorite old /new school critic since I relate to ur ears the best knowing that u have studio experience, around my age and loads of experience. Keep up the good work 👏 👍
I prefer the most accurate, best, recordings I can find ( CD, flac, etc). Then I choose the euphonic end of the spectrum for speakers and electrics, to breathe life back into the digital media.
Lately I have delved into the portable world of audio gear: DAPS, DACs, AMPS, IEMs, Headphones...a world that demands more accuracy, IEMS and headphones isolate distractions, music very intimate, yet visceral depending on music. I moved to planars, and accuracy is visceral, clarity i proved, etc....but Steve...for ALL the accuracy of instrument separation, soundstage, dynamics....I added a portable tube amp the BA300s to my FiiO M11 (a simply outstanding DAP right out of the box) and planars....accuracy was still there, but musicality, less sterile, more live music was the result. Kinda fine balance between accuracy and euphonics, as u say, experiment, swap stuff around...until your gear can take your fav music to another level and sit back and just enjoy the music!
Good question. I'm a broken record on the subject (get it....broken record?? = lame I know) but it truly depends on the environment. EVERYTHING, with regards to choice in eq., should be relative to the specific environment. * My dedicated HT room, I actually have Klipsch RPM series in a 9.2 config because they truly are great for dynamics with movies (perfect maybe??) and are great for multichannel music listening. * For my home office desktop and my home office listening (L + R) which are separate seating areas), I want accuracy. For desktop, near-field, I've got some modded Minimus-7s I upgraded a few yrs back which sound great- you should try! In the adjacent seating area, I've got some ELACs & KEF bookshelf(s) which are stacked but separated by isoAcoustic pieces. * For the greatroom/listening area, I've got the beautiful, tall Legacy Focus towers which are multi-multi drivers 5-way (I believe) that are probably not "accurate" but push a ton of air and fill the large space with music energy. * In the same vein I suppose, I've got a truck with Focal separates in four locations w? Kenwood amps and head-unit, a Crossfire sub, and an Audiocontrol DSP/crossover & I actually call it accurate. * So....for nearfield environments I prefer "accurate" and for more open spaces, including a surround experience, I prefer "musical". My two cents.
I want a sound that entertains me and makes me feel like i'm living with it, like its a real life soundtrack in the background. I don't care if its not what the artist heard in the studio. when the music is coming through my speakers, its to entertain me, not the artist. So I'm all for tweeking sound and EQ's. I tried accuracy with lossless files and getting rid of any eq bias but the files took up too much space just started too sound bland and boring so thats why I always enjoy tweeking DSP and EQ settings when I get a new piece of equipment to listen on.
Of course, listening room acoustic treatment comes into play here as well. In my living room room which is surrounded by double pane insulated windows and doors floor to ceiling height on two sides plus a 30 foot tall natural stone fireplace on the one end plus cypress paneled walls and a cathedral ceiling of sheetrock the potential for acoustic mischief is high. However, there are plenty of rugs around and much sound anti-reflectance in the form of overstuffed furniture. All of the musical components rest on sorbothane feet. However the notoriously over-reflective glass windows and doors are all shaded with wood louvered blinds. The angles of the individual slats can be adjusted by hand. It is amazing what acoustic differences can be heard just by playing with these angles. Essentially, they acts as adjustable acoustic baffles and have been a real eye opener concerning room treatment.
I want beautiful sound, especially on crappy recordings, which are unlistenable on the accurate system. Mullard CV4003 NOS tubes in my pre-amp do it for me.
I have those same tubes in a CJ preamp and they sound so great with these new LRS speakers. Uncle Kevin does have some nice Mullards. The 12AX7 at 100 bucks each now 185 each and those are so sweet on the phono stage. Having said all this my "main system" is Bryston. The Rega TT and older CD makes the magic.
Beautiful non fatiguing sound. After listening to a brutally honest system for years that showed the limitations of the recorded material I opted for pleasant music I could listen to all day without getting tired. Accuracy is the difference between original performance or final mix and what we hear in the reproduction. We will never know what that sounded like in the studio or have the same equipment and room characteristics, so I go for what sounds good. A highly “accurate” system may uncover things not heard by sound engineers with their system. What are the measurable characteristics of an amp that make it accurate vs sonically pleasing? Some articles suggest our ears can detect very small amounts of harmonic distortion. Even vs odd harmonics of tube vs solid state? Square wave response? There is definitely a difference between amps, specifying that out would be an advancement in audio art vs words.
The better it sounds, the more I enjoy it. It’s the goosebumps that tell me it’s good enough. Never thought I’d say this but new cables cleaned up my sound. Couldn’t believe it myself.
When I got my first hifi setup earlier this year, there was an unexpected downside... turns out a lot of my favorite music are bad recordings! So I'm leaning towards components that will be a little more lenient. I'm thinking if getting a schiit loki too. For now, all those badly recorded cds will be played in my car where they still sound good.
Loki is a no-brainer. I use it in a $10k system to fix some poor recordings. I use it rarely, maybe only once or twice per month, but when it’s really needed it works really well and helps to enjoy the music more.
Big Dally C I have ripped all of my CDs and pretty near all of my vinyl to the hard drive in my HTPC. I use Foobar2000 as my music player (it's free). FB2k has a built-in graphical EQ and there's a number of plug-ins available, some free and some very reasonably priced, so you can manipulate the sound to your heart's content. Not trying to put you off Loki btw. I really like my Schiit DAC :-)
I like accuracy and good provenance in the source material. Knowing that it is not a mangled version of something that deserves and could be much better. For playback I am more leaning towards warmth and a big sound stage. Love your well formulated thoughts and simple videos. I have one question and one suggestion. How many shirts do you have? Could you make a video showing your apartment, audio gear and listening room?
As a recovering recording engineer, I'd go about 75% toward sounding good/euphonic. Accuracy, once you get beyond a two microphone "straight to stereo" recording, is a myth. It may be possible to replicate exactly the sonics that the original engineer created, but then you put on the next disc and it all goes away. Get stuff that sounds good and enjoy it.
I just love mr hawain shirt !! As a huge fan of Steve. Just love his daily shows. It’s more like someone having a nice talk with a great legend over a beer. Thanks for your contribution .. the best reviewer in the world along with legends like tyll Anderson.
Measurements of equipment will never replace how it makes you feel when you listen to the equipment (for home systems) Saying that a happy medium between an accurate representation and it sounding sweet is my preference just because theres to many variations on quality of the source material
Hi Steve, Nice to know that your favorite speaker today is the Klipsch Forte III. An expensive speaker but how does that compare to a similar priced Magnepan?
Growing up on British 80'sHiFi and HiFi-thinking, accuracy was always the shining star to follow; no tone controls, simplicity, small but "good"... Nowadays, I simply want to be moved by the music and its emotional content, and find that dynamics are much more important to me than "accuracy" in conveying the emotion; so give me euphonics any day, since accuracy is impossible anyway!
I've done audio engineering and studio servicing for 30+ years. I don't have golden ears, but I also don't have tin ears. I'm somewhere in the middle. As a tech I'm aware of some of the pitfalls with digital but-depth and sample-rate. I'm also aware that vinyl is EQ'd one way before pressing and the EQ'd the other way at the preamp, so a lot depends on the filter components. Tape has it's own distortions. I guess I lean more toward accurate because I want my mixes to sound good on as many different systems as possible. And don't forget that the listening space itself affects the sound. The best advice I ever got was to listen to as much of your favorite music on your monitors and try to make your mix sound like that. I appreciate your videos Steve. I just want to enjoy the music.
I like both! Being a technical person I tend to value a nice clean, precise sound with a large wide and deep soundstage where each instrument is well defined and easily located, however.. ... sometimes and with some recordings (..and also after a couple of good reds..) I can forget my 'high end' preconceptions and crave a 'fat and juicy' sound! That is why, I have two different systems that serve both purposes. A "wife" and a "mistress" I guess!
I was decidedly in the accuracy camp, for a time. I certainly want the sound to be balanced, but there came a point where I had spent sufficient time tweaking everything that it was time to get out of that rabbit hole and just enjoy what I had built instead of obsessing about every detail. I haven't spent a single second thinking about "accuracy" for over a year. My stuff sounds great to me and that's all I care about at this point.
I don’t care if it’s accurate as long as I like the sound. I really don’t understand audiophiles not liking tone controls as with various record things will need to be adjusted so “I” enjoy the music. I had a guy tell me my speakers weren’t good as they had too much bass. I have twin 10” woofers to put out bass!
When I was first building my speakers I was obsessed with getting accuracy. I was obsessed with ribbon and beryllium tweeters and ceramic midranges because they are supposed to give the fastest and most accurate response but now I've grown to somewhere in the middle ground. Natural and full but not overly warm, like Wilson Audio speakers. Maybe someday I will grow to an even warmer signature. I just haven't heard anything like that yet.
A decent recording..but with decent music. For audiophile recordings..Jazz at the Pawnshop is amazing. Even Dire Straits Brothers in arms or Love over gold.😊
The Proac Response D80 is an unlikely looking contender but I was very impressed with sound which was both highly rhythmic and euphonic. The speakers cast a golden glow over everything played through them.
Hi again. After reading the comments below it seems that accurate recordings can be beautiful if the recording studio does its job right. Ianmedium below reflected that at his live experience at the Musikverien in Vienna, the hall had a magical sound and was romantic and engaging, unlike his experiences in recording studios, which were analytical. It seems that analog will always be warmer than digital, with its harmonics and overtones, unless the digital format can possibly capture them through a much higher sampling rate. What we want is to capture every nuance of the music and to accurately reproduce it with all of its beauty, clarity and warmth as it as produced. Is it possible to have both?
Another brilliant topic, clarity, warmth, separation, timing, emotion but most importantly FUN. That's what I love don't like slow paced, clinical, to much bass, and systems which work best played loud. So beautiful or accurate hmm timing pace when the music stops it stops immediately and very snappy when the pace gets going I really enjoy that. Hence the most important thing I look into on digital formats is not hi-res but the clock how good is the clock on cd player, streamer, Dac ect next is the stuff I mentioned above how much of the system produces warmth, separation, emotion, clarity and makes me not wanting to turn off the system. Keep reaching for the next album or enjoyed it so much just play the same album again.
Accuracy in what domain?? When people refer to accuracy, they are almost always talking about Frequency Response & Distortion. These happen to be the easiest to understand, and to measure. I believe that there are two other pillars of accuracy: Transient Response & Dynamics. These are both time domain characteristics that are difficult to understand, and more difficult to measure and represent as a simple number on a spec sheet. This has led to lots of speakers that are really flat, but have poor time domain response, and lack life & dynamics. Thank you Steve, for bringing awareness back to fun & dynamic sounding speakers!!
To be honest I don’t know yet. Don’t have enough experience. I have my system and am going on my journey of accuracy and good measurements for now. I want to see what I discover. If I don’t like it then that will be a revelation to me and I will go down another path. Its all part of the fun and journey.
Accurate v. Euphonic? I am a newbie exploring these things. After a few false starts, I have ended up with a headphone rig for accuracy and a separate system for euphonic. For accuracy, I enjoy streaming from a MacBook Air computer, through an Audio Quest Cinnamon USB cable, into a Cambridge Audio DACMagic 200, through Silver Streak cables into a McIntosh MHA 200 tube headphone amp, into Focal Clear MG headphones. The result is, in my opinion, very accurate and precise renditions of everything in the underlying music. For euphonies, I am streaming Apple Music (or 7.1 movies) through a McIntosh MX 123 processor, into a McIntosh MC8207 high-wattage home theatre amplifier, into Klipsch La Scala speakers, SVS 2000 sub-woofer, with appropriate cables. This creates a very satisfactory soundstage and a WOW factor that resembles "being there" and having the artists in my room with me. I may add a tube amp to run the La Scala's, but I am pretty satisfied with the system as is! Thanks for the thought-provoking video!
One would think that if a recording is accurate it would sound accurate on a accurate system. If a recording is beautiful it should sound beautiful on an accurate system. The recording sets the standard, a system can only match or underperform, not overperform the recording, I think.
I take my own High Resolution studio recordings and a few of my favorites. I don't buy for accuracy, I buy what sounds great and most convincing. There's no such thing as accurate recordings or accurate systems. Its all an illusion ... I listen for the best illusion - much the same as recording. If it sounds convincing, I've created a good illusion.
Steve, your videos have been most inspiring! Helping me a lot! Thank you so so much! Well, I consider my taste to be pointing to the warm/lush side, perhaps at "70", if we consider a scale where "50" is the neutral sound, "0" the analytical/lean/super- transparent sound, and "100" the warm- sugared-chocolat/fuzzy/warm sound. In short, less accuracy and more inviting, big punchy warm soundstage. Bye! Thanks again!
Everything but number one priority and what defines an audiophile imo is quality of sound and if the sound is what you are looking for. As mentioned in a previous comment of mine sound for me is like wine. The good wine is the wine you like. And therefore taste is number one priority just like sound in audio. When I buy a new item my number one priority is sound against looks, size, consumption and anything else that might come in mind. If my budget is 10 dollars then I will pick the gear that sounds the best to my ears. That’s why I strongly believe that you can be an audiophile no matter your budget. Between accuracy and beauty I will pick beauty because I can't "fall in love" with accuracy.....
I think an argument for accuracy is that it should be accurate across all types of music you can throw at it. Also, in this day where finding a brick an mortar shop that has all the speakers you want is getting harder, so accuracy is something you can compare online. With that said, for me, it all comes down to how it sounds to me. I had some Klipsch KG4's for the longest time and loved them. However, a lot of places - and most of the brick and mortar places around me laugh off Klipsch these days, but they absolutely kick butt - especially on rock and does give it that live sound. I have recently moved to Tekton Double Impacts (thanks partly to your review of their smaller brother), and feel they are very close to the Klipsch for that dynamic range and feel. However, I have heard but, do not know the statistics, that they are pretty accurate. What I do know is that I have thrown every type of music at them and they seem to sound great with everything. They have actually opened me up to new types of music because it just sounds so good. I've been saying for a long time, it is so hard to decide on just one set of speakers. I think certain speakers do things better than other and then sometimes even your mood comes into play. However, if you are like most of us, you need to decide on one pair - so I would lean towards the one that sounds best to you for your music over complete accuracy, but maybe the right answer is somewhere in between.
To me accuracy only has real use in a professional setting such as recording, mixing, monitoring etc. For most mere mortals I think the point of a listening experience is to enjoy the possibilities. Yes there are folks who want to hear the "music" accurately and good luck to them. The sweet spot to me is a speaker that elevates the music such that nothing is lost but it sounds sweet. I've usually used an equalizer between the signal source and the amp to get this done or when not possible use the eq presets in the home amp ... by now I'm guessing I've been outed as a non-audiophile ... LOL ... but I'm ok with that. Most of us don't want to hear things accurately in the raw. It's similar to watching TV, we've been conditioned to seeing big films in 24 fps which adds the magically cinematic motion blur ... essentially a distortion of the way we see the motion. That is what we have come to know as "Cinematic" ... if we see the same films at 30 fps or worse 60fps we would likely say that they looked cheap, unprofessional and not appreciate them as much ... but there are times where 30 fps and 60 fps are needed and appropriate. My two cents ... Cheers
Whenever I am tweaking my system Patricia Barber's "Companion" in 24 bit is a good "test." It is a live performance but very well recorded. Lot's of percussive dynamics, sung voice, and spoken word and electric organ and guitar with audience interaction and clapping at intervals. The clarity of word enunciation can be a giveaway as to "accuracy" - not just Barber's enunciation but also the audience's. Like most humans I have a good ear for the spoken or sung word. Audience "clapping" can sometimes be a good benchmark as to accuracy if the mics were picking it up accurately in the first place. The bass and percussionists especially on this recording are also a good indicator of whether or not tone is coming through with fidelity. Also, the music itself is just plain engrossing for me. I first listened to this recording in .wav format through my Sennheiser HD800 headphones to get the most clinical listen which clearly delineates everything. That then becomes my reference for total musical content without much coloration or flair, but it does tell me what the Forte 3's are adding or subtracting.
I am currently searching for my first audiophile system, so I go to alot of shops and listen to all kinds of systems. The most linear and accurate sounding, from what I uderstand, were the Kii Three. I purposefully also brought music where I know that it is not well recordes.The Kiis sounded fantastic with alot of digital stuff, with modern highend recordings and electronica. But with the older stuff, like 60ies singer songwriters or older metal, with everything that was not well recorded, the music sounded...well, bad recorded. I imagined myself sitting in my chair listening to that, and it was really not what I wanted. I need a system that sucks me in, not a system that repels me with bad recordings. So my search continues :-)
I EQ everything hehe, PLEASING sound is what I`m after, I feel like that`s what makes me an audiophile, accuracy will never truly be obtained without being present with the artists anyway, and in those cases you appreciate the experience as a whole, more than just the music and the sound, you get the ambiance, atmosphere, and in my preferred arenas, which are the intimate ones, you can get eyecontact, show your approval (or not hehe) et cetera, and when that`s the case, you can forgive less than perfect sound anyway. But at home or on the go, I change the sound to my liking, and I don`t feel like that is "disrespecting the artist" or anything like that, because the artists and sound technicians don`t know what gear I`ll be using, and there are many other factors than accuracy going into what gear I use, such as comfort, practicality, isolation, build quality, price.. And I know what I like, I like a V shaped sound most the time, unless I listen to classical, jazz or maybe something like rodrigo y gabriela, in THAT case, I want a neutral sound. Basically it depends, and I change on the fly according to what I listen to, because the purpose of music to ME, is to enjoy it ;)
I've been listening to Focal speakers now for several years and have not grown tired of them in the least. I still find them very musical with great staging. Of course they"re in a proper room. I've gone from vintage Luxman amps+preamps to a Luxman class A integrated that I enjoy very much. I feel that the Luxman warmth kind of balances the Focal's precision, which I've sometimes found tiring with A-B amps. So yeah, I'm on the «beautiful» side of things, but a fast amplifier gives my the accurate dynamics I like. Of course there's a paradox here: wouldn't be any fun if there wasn't.
I grew up with LPs, and can certainly respect them, but I am in the CD/digital camp, because of the reliability, convenience, and portability afforded by those formats. In terms of speakers, I'm a big Klipsch fan, so I fall on the side of excitement, dynamics, and feeling, I suppose. I've heard some "last word in accuracy" systems that were fairly sterile and boring. Live music isn't "accurate". It's room reflections and the settings of the microphones, the whims of the front of house tech and the diffraction of the people in front of you. Of course, it's worth it to minimize distortion and other artifacts where you can, but if you don't enjoy the listening experience, and don't get "that feeling" from the music, it's all for naught.
I have stopped thinking or worrying about sound qualities ever since I realised I was losing my hearing symmetrically to a degenerative auditory nerve condition. I now enjoy what I love and am more immersed in it than anytime before.
In no particular order : I enjoy the "clean" sound of digital music. The crispy but not ear piercing sound is for me. My dad prefers vinyl for basically the same reasons as you.I can appriciate the sou d of it, but i cant listen to it for long periods of time, It just feels like im missing something. I love a flat bass response from 120ish Hz down. I listen to more electronic, just anything with a good beat/groove and hearing every note at the same volume is very important to me. I love a nice big sound stage, some may interpret that as reverb but no, feeling like you are sitting right there in front of a band is amazing. He has a studio with multiple pairs of speakers and amplifiers and one of my favorites are custom built electrostats, basically converted to a metal frame, instead of a wooden original one. Its been a while since Ive listend to it, they are so inviting to listen to. In my room I have a Behringer NU1000 DSP amp and a pair of Golden Ear Three+ with powered bass drivers. My room has awful bass boosting at certain frequencies and having the DSP in the amp makes it so easy to tune it out. For the music I listen to its my favourite setup. It has the kick to shake the windows and do it well in control, while delivering a flat response from about 120hz right down to 30. I also love that they have radiators insead of a port design, I hate any sort of port noise and like I said before I listen to bass heavy music, there are oftet parts of the music where only the bass is playing and hearing that port noise is awful to me.
Great analogy...frozen pizza vs pizzeria pizza. I get it. I used to be all about the most accurate speakers, amplifier, whatever. Now I have "settled" for the system that sounds the best to me. I still try new pieces of equipment, but I end up staying with what sounds best to me. As usual, great video.
When my children were younger I had a couple of albums I also had cd's for. I sat up a blind test and they all preferred the albums to the cd's. I only have one thats into music as an adult. I bought a set of epos ES 14's at goodwill the other day and she has already claimed them. The rest of my kids just do the phone/mp3 thing. She got a turntable for Christmas (not from me!)
Nothing like a compression driver provably a reason why you love it! There are some trade-offs with a compression driver but the positives definitely outweigh the negatives!🤔😎 Can't blame you😉😁
i just know what i like when i hear it. i've always had a preference for mcintosh amps and proac, dynaudio, b&w and rogers speakers. just what i like. i've heard hundreds of systems over the years...they all sound amazing...some i just liked better. the two rigs i have setup right now are perfect for me, one is more on the cleaner/transparent side and the other on the musical/euphonic side. clean system is acurus preamp and amp, marantz cd player, b&w 805s. the euphonic system is warm, fat, musical...all those cliche words...i just like it...dual turntable, mcintosh integrated, proac studio 100 monitors with an m and k active sub.
I still play my Klipsch RF 5's great fun sounding speaker. I also love my Maggie 1.7, Sonus Faber Concerta, Klipsch Heresys, Kef Q. They are all very enjoyable sounding speakers. Some sound more accurate than others however that is the furthest thing from my mine when I listen to them. It's about enjoyment for me. I like bumps in the frequency!!!
At the risk of sounding prickly, I don't think I can accept the premise of the question. I don't see accuracy and euphony as opposites. I see them as two sides of the same coin (or urn). One cannot exist without the other. If music is beautiful when it is recorded, then an "accurate" system should represent it beautifully. No? Why should anyone think that a "cruelly revealing" system is accurate? It isn't. It's a system with coloration in the upper frequencies. But, okay, if you think little of accuracy, try inaccuracy. See if you like that. Maybe I've got a Bose Wave radio I'd like to sell you. Accuracy is like justice: You learn to appreciate it in its absence. And maybe accuracy, in the end, is just another word for euphony. Like Keats said, "Beauty is truth, truth Beauty. -- That is all / Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know."
Steve as an electric guitar player I've spent my entire life chasing warm and liquid sounding guitar tube amps. My hifi system is now a warm and liquid sounding tube amp. I don't want accurate, I want beautiful. Disclaimer: I am not an audiophile, I'm a music lover.
I'm firmly on the warm side, I'll have to check out those Klipsch models you mentioned. Most of my hi fi gear is over 30 years old or older, I began accumulating tube equipment years ago
There is a place where the two overlap, and that is the "sweet spot." What we're really talking about is the little grey area where they do overlap, and which way you prefer to lean in that grey area. That said, for me the purpose, the end goal, is to enjoy music, so I prefer a speaker that leans just a bit towards bringing out the best of the greatest variety of music.
I like to listen to individual instruments a lot, so accurate is generally how I answer these questions. I grew up with poor quality sound, I hear a lot of phone audio. I dug out the old pioneer surround sound system, with sub. Now I can enjoy good sound when I want to. My car system is more musical, bass heavy. I like both for different reasons. Some call accurate harsh, well, ever been on stage?
The problem with chasing accuracy is that you'll never get to 100%, NEVER. And in trying to get there you'll likely uncover way more unpleasantness than satisfying musical enjoyment. I learned a long time ago to put tone and spectral balance above detail and imaging. Once I did that, I finally started to enjoy my system.
Same thing can be asked about the performance of the music itself. Do you prefer something that's a note-for-note perfect rendition or a high-energy take with all musicians in-the-zone - despite a few flubs and slips?
I want my system to reproduce the music to be as close to how it was recorded in the studio, so I guess it is accuracy. Your point about vinyl vs cd, I have a large vinyl collection but things like pitch instability/variation on piano and some acoustic instruments bothers me compared to the accuracy on a cd, so accuracy wins again
Hard to obtain, depending on type of music and type of recording. The finished mix and master of a recording can sound very different to the sound in the studio, especially 80s recordings.
Oh man, Steve, i really engoy all your videos. I'm a studio guy, i listen on yamaha ns10m-studio for almost 15 years...far from perfect, far from neutral nor accurate but i just love to listen on them, it's sentimental ! One thing i know, if it sound good on Ns10 it will translate well everywhere. I have pair it with a PS Audio model 2, it's a little gem for not much money. Thank you to share your energy and your knowledge ! Nick from Canada.
I like to strike a balance between accuracy and euphonics. Total accuracy is less of an issue when listening to Jazz, Rock etc. or when amplified instruments are involved, but when listening to classical, too much warmth can become an issue as the texture/timbre of instruments risk sounding unrealistic.
I enjoy accuracy better than sweetened (euphonic). That goes for my recording and reproduction. I don't get much enjoyment from vinyl anymore. Those defects really stand out to me! I can't use a turntable at the levels I listen now anyway. And I sure don't miss the hassle of keeping those things clean. I've got a huge collection I should sell...
When I had money, I had a three-channel Bozak system: B4000 w/B302A center channel. McIntosh MC275, MC240, MC40, MX110, Dual TT w/Shure V15II. Goal was to emulate live, non-amplified, concert sound. Every new listener agreed that it sounded like being at a live concert.
