Automakers Are Cheating Again! - The Carmudgeon Show w/ Jason Cammisa & Derek Tam-Scott - Ep 140 

There was no clap starting off the episode. If Derek does not clap, has this episode truly started?

I flick my highbeams constantly for people that dont have their car lights on and wow some/most people are so zoned out

As a dude that mainly rides at night ,the amount of newer cars running around without lights at night is shocking and dangerous. I don’t need any more help playing frogger irl.

Not unrelated question: what IS it about newer vehicles that allows no rear lights whatsoever while some sort of front illumination (just enough to fool the driver into believing their fronts are on). I started noticing this about four years ago but now I see it once every other day or so.

So many things to point out on this one, having been in the wholesale dealer world for a decade. Things like the "required" middle seat head restraint circa 2006 or 2007, but the 2017-ish Equinox and Silverado didn't have them (as examples). Then there are the required back-up cams, which I can assure you not all Chargers and Challengers had in that time window. Then there's the lack of a CHMSL on my parents 1987 Ford Ranger which probably lacks it because "it's not a passenger vehicle." So much slips by.... I like how many GM's (though not all) have the feature that when turning the headlights off, it springs automatically back to auto... that is most appreciated. As for the auto/DRL thing (like the Soul) I've noticed that as well. I work at a wholesale dealership, and it's amazing how many modern cars still don't have the DRL's come on in auto. I was also amused to see a late Canadian Tacoma without an "off" feature on the stalk-- it started at auto, and had parking lights and on. I also recall my dad's 2006 Corolla S would turn the lights on automatically if they weren't turned on. It would move maybe three feet and do it... again, something that should just be a thing. Regarding Hyphen and the "higher trim" amber rear signals, I think that's Ford. A number of Super Dutys we've had tend to have amber signals in higher trim, but plain reds in lower, but that's been changing in the newer years. A concern I have for modern European light clusters is simply the technology and maintenance. We have to depend on it to stay in working order, and lets be honest... people suck. Again, working in wholesale, I get to see modern vehicles with not even 4,000 miles having hissy fits or malfunctioning features. We had a 2020 Supra during Covid (obviously, new Supra with only 2,000 miles) where it was fine aside from an inoperable horn. Now just imagine the 80,000 mile Altima's and Sentra's we get coming through here for reconditioning. The radar cruise for a number of vehicles can be disabled simply by having a windshield put in that has the wrong thickness or lamination, and/or not being calibrated. A small bump to a Tacoma or Tundra rear bumper end can throw the entire blindspot monitoring through a loop. Poor front end alignment can send stability management out the window... and people won't (or can't) fix this stuff, and lose their precious nannies.

Owner of 2002 Honda Civic here: Its a combination of the lenses being so hazy that the low beam doesn't do anything so they switch to high beam all the time, and because of the new cars having two of saurons eyes attached to the front of their cars, the civic owners keep them on High to 'counter-act' the brightness of the others. Also something to note is the Age of the owners, the owners of these older Hondas are also old themselves, so their old shitty eyes require more light to see. But its an awful recipe since they wont know to replace their hazy headlights anyway. Another thing that's most irritating about them lowering the emissions value over time when testing is, that bigger vehicles(over a certain amount of lbs) are allowed to have more emissions. like how does that make sense? if its gas powered it should be all tested under the same regulation.

The reason for a lot of newer cars driving around with high beams on is automatic high beams being enabled by default and having terrible detection. It looks like newer Honda Civics have them. Mazda also has this problem on newer cars and I have seen this issue on a CX-30. Automatic high beams should not exist.

One issue with auto lighting that I find extremely dangerous, and I wish would be addressed - auto lighting never seems to turn on in the rain during the day. I wish they would mandate lights on when windscreen wipers are activated (except for screenwash).

Well I have to say I really enjoy listening to this podcast and agree wholeheartedly about the headlight issue. I've been ranting on this for years (does anyone really need an F-150 with a 24" liftkit to drive back and forth to work!!! with the headlights and light bar shining straight into my cabin!) but I have to take issue with Jason's rant on automatic trannies.. I would suggest you temper you stance just a bit to apply to the situations. I am and have been a car guy since I was in high school (won't tell you how long ago that was) and still enjoy driving " briskly" at times but I had polio in my left leg and an auto has made my life much easier. I currently drive a Corvette Grand Sport with an auto tranny and love it (the paddle shifters are sweet). Enough said. I would just suggest you not lump everybody into the same mix.

THANK GOD THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT THIS

I don't think modern Hondas are like this anymore but I have a possible explanation for why Honda drivers seem to have their high beams on often. In most cars I've driven: no dash light means your headlights are off (drls on) green double light symbol means your low beams are on blue single light symbol means your high beams are on In my '05 civic (RIP): blue single light symbol was very faint and means headlights are off (drls on). It was so faint that you couldn't see it during full sun. I think it was intentionally like "if you can see this you need to turn your lights on" no dash light means your low beams are on. I really liked this because you didn't have a bright green light coming from the dash while you were trying to see at night. green double light symbol means your high beams are on. It took me a while to get used to the more common system once I got a new car but even still I prefer the system in my old civic. I could see someone who is used to "green symbol means headlights" from many other cars accidentally turning on high beams thinking they have their low beams on.

I've ended up blocking my rear view mirror at night now, the Led light dazzling is just dangerous. Wing mirror shine is still awful, but it's better than having a collapsed sun shine directly into your soul. BTW, this is a problem in Europe.

This issue has made driving my Miata the past few years even more of an extreme sport than it already is. So so happy this came out. I had a strong feeling for a while that it was exactly the type of corporate arms race that it, surprise, is.

It was the new edge mustang. From 99-01 the base and gt were all red, and the cobra had amber turn signals

I drive in the UK and you can see the problem with US headlight design btw we get blinded every time a Tesla is driving the other way. The EU also has a rule that if there is a digital dash they have to have auto lights.

The amber turn signals on Porsche 911s were a giveaway that the car was gray market.

LOL - never thought Derek would name drop the Vacumatic fountain pen

No don't copy Europeans, those things don't work here either. I mean they probably do during sunshine on the French riviera, but the first instance of snow, slush, pitch black darkness or any other set of circumstances where you'd actually need to aid your eyesight you'll be blinded by a lazertronicmatic-HID-LED-mobile coming your way. Those systems always react that split-second late, so it's sort of worse than in the before-times when someone would forget to dip their lights. Now it's more sneaky - it's like a laserbeam running through your field of vision when you least expect. Hmh, was supposed to be a short comment, but Jason riled me up lol.

If automakers are following the letter of the law, then it isn't cheating. Unless there is another law that says they have to follow the spirit of the first law instead of the letter of it. And it IS possible to engineer a dark spot on the wall with just a single incandescent lamp. Simply change the reflector and/or lens design not to throw so much light at the desired spot.

How is it OK for Aston Martin to cheat on a exhaust sound test and not OK if some cheat on a headlight test!?

No truer words have been said on a podcast; has anyone else noticed that 2018+ Acuras have atrociously bright headlights?

I think people drive with high beams on when they have a headlight out (low beam)

You are doing the Lord’s work.

I think those dark spots are from the Three Body Problem. But these new lights are worse than an alien invasion.

Well, I'm sure we don't want to name names, but I'm gonna. Back in 2000 my buddy had a BMW that the lights took a few minutes to warm up and they were insanely bright. Same with Mercedes and same with Porsche. Since then, they don't seem as bright. I have an Audi, the last two had HIDs and they aren't insanely bright. What is bright is people using the wrong bulb in reflector headlamps and a lot of the new Japanese cars like the Acura and Mazdas. I don't find them bright overall, but they have their moments when they are driving towards you that it is almost like a capacitive flash.

Tiptronic 911 Turbos are definitely hitting the same note as the CVT WRX

Does Derek have all this random knowledge floating around in his head, or does he seriously do his research before each episode?

"I see the light!" . And now i'm fxcking blind.... 🦯🦮

One thing that I have noticed is that on top of headlights being overly bright, people with trucks lift them without adjust the headlights amplifying the issue even more.

Also DRLs, whether it's an LED strip or just the headlight a bit dimmer (like a current Corolla pre facelift), and they're so bright so the driver thinks the lights are on but I'm driving behind them and their rear lighs aren't on, but they have no clue

The worst thing about sharing a brake light and a turn signal is during an emergency stop, if the driver is smart enough to hit the hazard light button, they’re actually turning off 2/3 of their brake lights temporarily. It makes absolutely no sense.

I AM SO HAPPY. Finally we are addressing the single most INFURIATING thing about driving!

Thank you for bringing this up. Driving at night, especially in the rain, is terrifying now.

Glad I'm not the only one who thinks it's insane how bright headlights have gotten! The highbeams of older style headlights are even more dim than the "daytime running lights" of most new cars. Also I think they should mandate that the rear lights are always on because too many drivers hop in their dark grey cars when it's pouring rain and don't have their headlights on so you can barely see them through the mist.

As someone with astigmatism, driving in a Miata surrounded my Medal Model 3s with poorly aimed headlights (and seemingly high beams all the time) I agree with all of this. And the amount of cars that drive around at dusk with no lights on because their instrument cluster is fully illuminated is maddening. It seems as though the general is too stupid to be trusted to manage headlights, so mandate that they are always on when needed and if you want to be able to bypass that, then you should have to long press or confirm you're disabling your lights.

As a Canadian, I can surely say that, despite the mandatory auto headlights and non-illuminated dash while the lights are off, I still regularly see people (2-3 per day) driving without any lights on when it’s dark out. Truly frightening.

Also, who the HELL thought it was a good idea for super duty ford trucks to have FOUR LOW BEAMS

Thank you for not only having this important discussion but doing it in a well-educated and researched manner. It's why I enjoy this podcast so much. We need more journalists to bring this up and get the legislation changed ASAP.

As a Canadian on the west coast -- the amount of people I see driving around at night, in the rain, without lights is spooky. Completely oblivious to my incessant flashing, they continue driving, angry at me for flashing them, road rage follows in complete darkness. I have given up to altering others to their situation.

The CHMSL is definitely a life saver around these parts because so many cars seem to have both normal brake lights burnt out/inoperable, that often times the CHMSL is the only brake light working. ALSO. The Civics with the high beams! I feel so validated because I complain about this on a weekly bias. Thank you Jason.

"I wear my sunglasses at night. So I can, so I can. Keep track of the visions in my eyes."

Piechasode 😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮

I was born and raised in Thailand. Amber turn signals were just a normal thing. So I was surprised when I came to U.S. for the first time and saw that a lot of cars have red turn signals or even worse; a combined brake lights and turn signals.

DT-S .. "as long as you don't drive past the same donut shop".. sly.... 😂😂

Am I the only one that would rather have a 911 S/T than a GT3? 🤔 (Ok, I'll admit, the GT3 Touring is great as well)

Headlight Gate! Yessss! I live in Western WA where in addition to comatose vehicle operators, we are likely 2nd in line to CA for Tesla (and Subaru) operators per capita. I think its the Model Y that is particularly scorching, but difficult for my retinas to recover quickly enough to be sure, but definitely Tesla's in general. I've been triggered to insanity at times and as a result often fire up the high beams on my '07 Toyota truck every time I get blinded. 🤯 🤷🏻‍♂️ As for design, in my Toyota, if you leave the headlight switch in the on position, it turns the lights off after you kill the engine and open the door and turns them on automatically when you start the engine, functioning similarly to DRL. Howerver, not without the flaw of running down the battery should you kill the engine and NOT open the door while taking a nap at a rest stop. 😉😅 Been there. Like Jason, I've thrown in the towel on the unilluminated vehicles with dashboards a blazing. WTF. THANK YOU FOR DOING THIS EPISODE! I will be sharing this without reservation. 🙏🤗 God bless sometimes dumbass America. 🇺🇲

CVT WRX makes no sense, it should not even be a thing

As a euro (UK) driving around in a golf I don’t think matrix really works, I seem to get dazzled all the time! Minis BMWs and Teslas seem to be the worst culprits! With BMW can see the matrix trying to work sometimes I swear

Could the government force a recall on these unsafe lights. I wish it could happen.

Here in the Province of Ontario Daytime running lights have been mandatory since 1989.

I was a delivery driver for nearly 10 years. One time I repeatedly flashed a Fiat Cherokee to turn their lights on. They were traveling in my direction in front of me all through town. They never got the hint. I eventually got back to my restaurant and they followed me back to my store and FIGHT ME. Dead serious. “Stop flashing me! You got a problem?” He got all in my face and I just said dude your lights were off. “Oh… sorry” then he left with his tail between his legs.

When I bought an s2000 after years of not having a low car, I couldn’t drive the car at night. So many cars had these bright lights and I couldn’t see a thing every 3 blocks or on the highway. I had to invest in anti glare rear and side mirrors, polarised sunglasses, and tint the back window to limo tint just to survive at night. It wasn’t like this at all back in 2016

Hi. Guy from Canadia here. The law that went into order in 2021 you were referring to (the "Phantom Vehicle Law") specifies a vehicle has to have at least 1 of the 3 following characteristics : - Rear lights that illuminate automatically with DRL's (which are, as you correctly mentioned, mandatory over here); - Automatic lights for the front, sides and rear; - No dash lights when headlights are turned off. That being said, I am not aware of any passenger car sold in the Canadian market without automatic lights for the 2024 MY. EDIT : I almost forgot! This law is also applicable to motorcycles and semis.

I like the way my Saab 9-3 deals with auto headlights: there’s no way to turn them off. There’s 3 settings: auto, parking lights, and on. And it yells at you if you put the parking lights on when it wants the lights on (the car also has amber rear turn signals). Also, the new Chevy Colorado has its lights as a option in the touchscreen, which many people complain about. But it has auto headlights…I’ve never had a time where I’ve needed to touch my lights at all because it’s auto.

Let’s not forget the gm cars with their dumb reverse lights on when you are not in reverse

06 civic owner here. There’s no reason why these cars should have their high beams on. There’s a very obvious blue high beam indicator on if their high beams are on. They are simply ignoring it.

I agree this issue has become a major problem and needs intelligent regulatory attention. It is dangerous and I cannot stand driving at night anymore. Please look up “ALL LIGHTS MOD” if you want to be disappointed in humanity. Also, we need to educate “people” with truck suspension “leveling” kits about getting their headlights aimed. Personally, I suspect there are people in the US who wear getting brights flashed as a badge of honor. Looking at you Jeep owners.

these two are probably some of the very few ppl who can make a podcast about headlights and make it interesting.

5:45 😂The intensity of that answer sent me😂😂

Thank you!!!! As a truck driver who drives exclusively at night I can attest that everything discussed here NEEDS to be addressed. #headlightgate

the automatic hazards-during-heavy-breaking is an underrated point - my non-car friends are always amazed when I reach over and hit the hazards in a panic stop situation, much to my amusement. Having it be required would absolutely help reduce rear-end crashes

I’ve screamed at people to turn on their lights in traffic, several of them legit screamed back “no”

Completely agree with everything in this video. That said, and perhaps the rules are slightly different again here in the UK. But all modern "euro" spec cars are still fucking blinding as shit. Its probably not helped by the fact that everything is a 20ft tall SUV now so the headlights are naturally 5 stories up and I'm in an E90. But still, lights as a whole are too bright. And in practice I really don't think the laser blind spot whatever they want to call it tech where part of the beam dips for oncoming works. Plenty of times I've been on a motorway and oncoming cars look like shooting fucking stars because the middle barrier stops them from seeing me. Oh, you also get the dickheads with halogens who don't align them properly after a bulb change so the lights are facing all directions... Anyway, I'm off to fit some football stadium lights on my roof to flash back these assholes

This. All of this. I've been ranting about this for years. But i do have concerns about the costs of those miracle adaptive headlights. Get in fender bender and youre out $15k in lighting equipment.

Yet another topic that boils my blood. Thanks for getting me worked up today gentlemen. Greats discussion.

I’m so sorry for your family friend Jason. Glad they made it. A few years ago I was leaving my dark tree lined neighborhood on a rainy night, stopped at a stop sign looked both ways didn’t see anything. I started to clutch out and turn left, but I heard the tell tale noise of water on tires coming from the right so I slammed on my brakes, a black shadow whooshed by ahead inches ahead of me. A few moments later the headlights on their car came on and a flat black car appeared where there was nothing Be safe out there and remember to check your headlights are on.

A little random thing, my Golf Alltrack (with auto lights) turns the dash lights off when you turn the lights to “off” or “running” at night so if I can’t see anything inside the car, I can’t see outside either A new(ish) car with old school mentality. Including the stock halogen REFLECTORS (smh). I upgraded them now but yeah

Also all these euro cars that have amber turn signals but because they're sequential and US requires a certain amount of light on the very first Hz of light, so Audi or whoever just cans the amber sequential and just makes a red turn signal with the brake light with their sequential

My Buick LaCrosse (and presumably most GM products) with automatic headlights is constantly monitoring and if I have the headlights off while I'm driving and the car determines that I should need them, it shows a message that says "HEADLIGHTS SUGGESTED", it boggles me that this isn't a standard.

Lights should be heavily legislated. Brightness, placement of lights, and when and when they are not on. DRL = rear lights are on ALWAYS for ALL CARS. Why is that not a law? Black hole cars on highways at night is very dangerous. Also, super bright DRL should be illegal. Also also, turn signals or brake lights in the lower bumper of cars (looking at you Hyundai and KIA) is very dangerous too. People are getting into accidents due to negligence from the authorities on this issue.

I was connecting with my inner Jason driving on a Pittsburgh back road tonight no more than 20 minutes ago. Subaru Outback, CVT I'm sure, no lights and 10 under on in 35... As I approached, flashing my highbeams, trying to get some sort of response in the positive direction towards proper motoring, I noticed a perfectly square dent matching the size of the F350 I was in. The Ford oval was practically embossed in the sheet metal. Someone has been in my situation before and did what we all wanted to do.

DRLs on the front were mandated in Canada in 1989. It was not retroactive to older cars but it applies to cars bring imported so your VW friends might be porting US or Euro cars? Most of the Teslas with high beam on are Model 3 and Y (though most Teslas are now Model 3 and Y) so I figured the centre screen is responsible.

Speaking of Derek judging someone buy a turbo cabrio. Richard Hammond recently brought a Black interior/exterior Turbo S Cabriolet with Black stripe.... What in the world is this spec 😅

A year ago I got the chance to drive a family members 2022 Nissan leaf at night. As soon as I got in I found the light switch and thought I turned on the lights. Instead the DRLs we're bright enough that I thought they were the headlights. (I was driving a 2012 Chevrolet Volt with dim halogen lights at the time)

You need to watch Richard Hammond’s newer Drivetribe video on his new Porsche 992 Turbo S cabriolet with PDK. He’s about as real a car guy as you can find.

I have noticed at least with late model Fords that you will see a rapid illumination of brake lights under hard braking, so I believe that law has changed. And I’m fairly certain older cars drive around with their high beams on because their low beams failed and they’re too cheap/poor to replace them 😂

GM backup lights that turn on when car is unlocked. Makes vehicle appear to be in reverse, causing drivers to stop in the street and wait for the car to backup, but its not. There should be an immediate recall to disconnect the backup light from that convenience lighting circuit.

The '69 Dodge Polara had one of the first modern projector beam lamps - only one - as an optional extra, called the Super-Lite. It's astounding to see a full-size C-Body barge with a single headlamp from the future just chilling in the grille.

Been looking at auxiliary lights for my motorcycle. Seen lights advertised as brightest lights allowed by law. Just trying to make a triangle to help idiot motorist see the motorcycle better and get some extra light.

Trucks with the Carolina Squat and multiple LED light bars + crazy bright headlights are my favorite

I have a Kia Stinger GT and have had the headlight issue several times. One was after I left the dealership and later at night I thought everyone were being total assholes until the police pulled me over to ask why I had no lights on. The dealer had turned off the automatic lights and I did not notice as I was driving in an urban area with plenty of light. Absolutely an issue.

Wanted to give you some information regarding headlight gate (and thank you for helping call attention to this, couldn’t agree more with your statements). I’ve seen claims from Tesla owners that they’ve received their cars from Tesla with the headlights completely misaligned which I presume is a factor for the problem on those cars lights being so blinding. Even if they were aimed properly they’re to fucking bright though

Turbo S Cab is a better daily. And convertible. gt3 too stiff for everyday but is the better weekend sports car On another note, I've never seen a 991 and newer targa owner ever take the top down

I have been noticing for the past few years the high #s of late model cars [less than 6 years old] running down the freeways at night w/ no taillights. So many. And I can't figure out how they're doing this all the time w/o the CHP pulling them over to give them a fixit ticket...

As someone who commutes more than an hour to get home at night, I agree something has to be done about brightness, aim, and just plain getting people to turn them on. I don’t dare drive on a one lane highway at night unless I absolutely have to. All the oncoming traffic lights are too bright.

When I first got my 356 roadster with original 6v headlights my first thought was "damn I guess people had better night vision back in the 1960s" 😂

I Canada, It was retrofitted DRL or Add Fog lights that were permanently on when the car was on.

Being in the UK the headlight isn't an issue here, what irks me is DRL's which leads people to think their lights are on when they aren't

Oh wait, so it’s not me? I’m 20 and for the last year or so I’ve been seriously worried about my eyes because I kept being blinded by “low lights” 😅

My 2018 wrangler JL had no DRLs. This vehicle was the same grey as an overcast. I had to have the headlights on in the middle of the day because I felt invisible. I also programmed in the flashing brake lights. This episode speaks to me. It is 90% of my road rage these days.

Not having the ability to turn off automatic headlights when parked is maddening to me. When my wife and I go out we like to get food and sometimes eat in the car. We are always blinded by the people who park across from us because they can’t turn their headlights off! The only way to turn off the automatic headlights in a 2010 Toyota Corolla is to turn the car off, pull the handbrake up 1 click, and then restart the car. Only then do you have the ability to turn off the automatic headlights when the car is on and in park.

Bad regulation, bad design/engineering, bad enforcement. Worse are after market LED headlights without vertical cut off. Oh Jason. You found the sacrificial Kia.

I've been waiting for a lighting episode! New lights are absurd. Bright lights need to be projected (no reflector lenses), rear turn signals must be amber, always-on DRLs should include front and rear lighting or none at all, low beam should not be higher than a pedestrian's waist height, brake force display (a la BMW), and allow modern technologies (adaptive matrix). It would also be great if states would actually require headlight aim to be adjusted on safety inspections.

Try LEDGATE.

wait you mean regulation/laws held back advancements that would benefit everyone? shocking!

Watching this from Ukraine, I wish we have your problems

When is sreten gonna be in one of these. He’s in the states right now 🤔 Some guests would be cool. The show works without them so I’m a pig in shit either way 🤷‍♂️

I am a tow truck driver on the east coast and I work nights and this is 100% accurate. The statement about 2000s era Civics with high beams on is uncanny. My guess is that the lenses become cloudy more than other cars maybe but I get blinded multiple times a night. It is truly enfuriating and sometimes if there are no other cars Ill turn my work lights on to try to send a message.

fix the light truck loophole and limit the height of headlights too.

Hahaha I love Derek and his 80yr old mind 🥰🥰🥰 two pedals means AUTOMATIC!