Today's 5 Most Innovative Cars - The Carmudgeon Show with Jason Cammisa & Derek Tam-Scott - Ep 128 

Jason, the American car that was a transportation paradigm shift sits in your driveway. The Chrysler minivan.

Well... TBH Subaru was 8 years before Audi with their 4WD in road cars. Also rally Quattro debuted half a year after Leone 4WD participated in Safari rally.

I'm amazed Jason didn't mention the Elise, innovation in chassis design for maximum weight saving, in a relatively affordable package that ended up being a major success for Lotus

I think the mini-van needs to be on the list. Caravan probably. Started a whole class that has been huge for families for decades.

I absolutely cannot believe that the NA Miata is not on this list. This has to be the first answer to this question as it brought an entire market segment (Japanese lightweight convertible) and brought back the idea of the British sports car while revolutionizing it to be used by the masses, everyday. If I had to pick another one, I think the R35 GTR could also fit on this list.

AMC Eagle. I believe it was the first mass-market AWD sedan/wagon (I would argue that it created the market segment, long before Subaru). Low price point. Motorsport pedigree (SCCA rally). It was an AWD crossover 20 years before it's time. It was completely unlike anything else at the time. No crazy new tech, but it brought AWD compact cars to the masses. Grand Cherokee "ZJ". in 1993, SUVs were typically based on pickup trucks, including the leaf spring suspension and ladder frame. The ZJ was the first with unibody construction, coil spring suspension, and 4-wheel antilock disk brakes. It was the first mass-market SUV with actual sporting pretense AND a comfortable ride. Its standard 6-cylinder was as powerful as most V8s of the time. The design was by Larry Shinoda, and Giorgetto Giugiaro had also consulted on it. It was "sporty", stylish, and upmarket at a time when other SUVs were utilitarian boxes.

Someone may have mentioned this. But in Europe we like to think of the MK1 Focus as a huge leap for a compact hatch. Democratised excellent ride quality and handling in a small hatch due to its control blade rear suspension, a cheaper version of the Mondeos setup. The car was as a result of Ford Europe being pretty hurt at the mk5 Escort's reception. It also has motorsport pedigree in the World Rally Championship.

35:12 Jason picking up that DTS accidentally said that an average of a Macan and Cayenne is a "Mayenne", which sounds like "moyenne" (average) in French, made my day.

Hey, Camry! First year of the generation. How ironic that the car I learned to drive in was the last year (2001) of the same generation.

DTS: - What is that called? Me: - It's called a bus.

1st Gen RX300

The same way that the LS400 changed the luxury car world, the NSX did the same thing to the sports car world. It proved you could have a fast and fun sports car that was also easy to live with and reliable. Ferrari and Lamborghini had to step their game up in the reliability and the “not catching the F on fire every week” game. 😊

MQB?

Who democratized airbags?

Mazda does have the skyactiv-x engine technology which is a high compression gdi engine with compression ignition like a diesel and is able to get very good efficiency and improved performance. So, in that sense Mazda is technically innovative, but we don't get this engine in the USA.

I think you were right that the BRZ/86 should be on the list because it stands out in today's market where everything else is overly complicated, overly heavy, overly expensive, etc. LS400 for sure belongs on the list. ...And if you're going to include Prius, go second gen, first gen was super ugly and nobody wanted it, second gen is where it started looking like something people would want to own aside from the MPG.

GTI!

VW Touareg MK1, the same SUV as the Cayenne but half the price.

Taurus SHO fastest sedan under 50k for a long time

The Prius actually does have a motorsports background! From 2012 to 2022 the Prius was campaigned by Japanese racing team apr in the Super GT series in the GT300 class (along other original GT300 cars as well as GT3-class cars). The Prius GTs were developed with Toyota's input, and Toyota SPECIFICALLY required that the hybrid system use road-going components, which made the car significantly heavier than the other hybrid GT300 car in 2012, the CR-Z, which had a purpose-built racing hybrid system (yes, the Honda CR-Z that Jake has). That one was withdrawn after 2015. There were two versions of the Prius campaigned: the first generation Prius apr GT (based on the Gen 3-4 Prius) from 2012 to 2019, and the second generation GR Sport Prius PHV (based on the Gen 4 Prius PHV Sport) from 2019 until 2022. The first generation Prius was mid-engined RWD (3.4L RV8KLM V8 engine, from Toyota customer prototype racing such as the Rebellion R-One) with a hybrid system derived from the road-going car's Hybrid Synergy Drive and mounted in the passenger seat. This version of the Prius was the most successful, winning 4 races in 56 entries and multiple podiums, and placing 2nd in the standings in 2016 and 3rd in 2015 and 2018. 2016 sees two Priuses fielded by apr with two separate systems: one car used lithium ion batteries, and the other used capacitors. The capacitor car was the one that achieved second in the standings. Interesting note: because of Japanese legislation lithium-ion batteries couldn't be legally exported, so for the early years of the Prius program when Super GT raced overseas (in Thailand and Malaysia), the Priuses had to run with the hybrid system disabled. The second generation Prius was front-engined, RWD. Super GT's rules changed this year stipulating that GT300 vehicles must have the engine in the same location as the production vehicle, which ruled out the previous mid-engined Prius GT. This version of the Prius uses the same hybrid system, but swaps the 3.4L V8 for a production-based 5.4L 2UR-GSE V8 engine located in the front. This second gen Prius was less successful because both apr and Toyota had very little experience trying to make a front-engined hybrid race car work (all but the very first hybrid race cars, a Lexus GS450h and a Toyota Supra, had been mid-engined). They scored one win in 2021, and the Prius was retired after 2022, replaced by a Lexus LC500h, which uses the same hybrid system.

Derek’s knowledge of cars and associations is absolutely amazing!

Please do an episode on Bosh at some point. So much innovation that gets credited to manufacturers seems to come from them.

In one of Gordon Murray’s T.33 debut interviews (can’t remember with who), the interviewer asked Gordon who he admired most of the modern carmakers. Gordon responded Mazda. If your a Mazda guy, chances are you’re also a car guy

I love how Jason raves about the startups totally ignoring the fact that 190E’s quality and durability cemented the reputation, which new companies still struggle with a lot.

The original Ford Taurus? I’m always hearing about what a big deal it was when it came out, with its aerodynamic shape and huge sales. It came out 2 years after the Mercedes

Not to pander to something we all you know both of you are fond of, but the MK7 Golf I think may be looked back upon like the the W201 190E. Hear me out: The Golf MK7 debuted as a 2013-2015 model year vehicle (depending on your market). The vehicle was a major step forward for materials, fit & finish quality, performance & safety/features in that class and price point. Just look at any competitor from that model year. Mainly plastic-fantastic, cheap & cheerful transportation. Here in North America, you had a wonderful standard 1.8TSI engine that punched WAY above its weight in terms of power, yet was actually incredibly efficient. Top-Notch passenger crash-safety. You had the availability of advanced driver assistance features, adaptive front lighting, panoramic moonroof, full leather sport seats, true premium audio, all of which were very rare features in this class & price point (Mazda being the only other to dabble in premium/small at that price, at least in North America). And nobody combined these all in one car, that also drove so well, at that price. The driving experience was/is so much more "Premium" than anything else in the class, and drove line an Audi, for $20K. I think this is a big part of how I relate these two vehicles. You had a vehicle that it was evident the money went into the platform, the same way it would for the big VW/Audi cars, but it was scaled down to a "masses" price & size (too bad Americans don't like wagons & hatches... I single-handedly blame you for why we can't have Golfs up here in Canada anymore haha). The interior, in addition to being beautifully crafted, was also ergonomically perfect. This was a pre-Diesel Gate car (development), and I do not think that we will ever see that level of attention to detail & investment in a really great small car from VW AG again. Look at any of their recent interiors, drivetrains, pricing, etc., and you can see that there has been a change. The fact that the MK7 Golf grew to spawn an entire generation of great sporty/enthusiast models above the regular models, and I think it has a great amount of importance in that realm as well. Not to mention the "bones" underpin a wildly vast amount of other corporate models (and the ENTIRETY of the current USA/CAN ICE lineup), and the impact stretches even further. The technical aspects & innovations of the car last to this day. I agree with the list you came up with in technicality, but I think the MK7 Golf should be on the list in a more spiritual sense.

What about the Mk7 Golf/GTI/R? It was made so well that it made Mercedes delay the W205 (the W201 successor) by a year. The Mk7 democratized a $50,000 car for half price, and that could make it a 190E successor in terms of build quality, ride and NVH in some ways… maybe also in terms of the MQB platform being so modular that a lot of other companies have adopted that method for platforms.

The Honda NSX has to be part of this. New market for Honda, kinda democratized the sports car, brought reliability and comfort to future cars, genuine world beating performance for its time.

One often overlooked yet extremely innovative car was the '82 Nissan Prairie, later sold as the Multi and Stanza Wagon in North America. This was the first car we would classify as a minivan, with dual sliding doors that latch to the chassis (with no physical B pillar) seating up to 8 passengers, having unibody construction, and using a front wheel drive transverse layout. Later models could be optioned with 4wd. The engines on offer weren't too innovative, with one coming with twin plug ignition to meet North American emissions standards. The rear suspension used a torsion bar to keep the load floor low, as designs for the initial design concept visualized a wide variety of applications for the Prairie, from emergency vehicles to cargo vans, airport shuttles to taxis. The design was heavily inspired by an Italian design concept, the Lancia Megagamma, designed by Giorgetto Giugiaro. That concept later went on to inspire Mitsubishi's Chariot, but was a major influence for Nissan's designers, as noted in (I can't remember what issue) Car Styling Quarterly. So if you want to talk a car that changed the automotive landscape, there you go. It was innovative, came after the 190e, inspired a generation of car designs, and has Italian design roots.

You were so close! Honda Insight is the first hybrid and the first high tech car for fuel efficiency. It’s a VW XL1 for the common man.

Closest new car in SIZE to the MB 190 I could find is the Nissan Versa...Shorter wheelbase, but 3" LONGER than the Benz. And about the same curb weight. The 190 was truly an amazing car for its time. Nobody packs as many of the MB qualities and virtues in this compact of a package today.

The originsl Mercedes A-Class. It opened up a new lower market sector for Mercedes, sold well and was highly (get it) innovative. It wasn't pretty, nor very sporty, but it started the premium high seating position segment in europe, that has been very popular (especially with seniors) ever since, even it has optics wise (!) shifted over to SUVs.

M.I.A.T.A. democratized sports cars

I'd like to offer the Mark IV Vw Golf. Technical innovations: DSG Gearbox, or CVT, 4speed automatic, 5 or 6 speed manual fully zinc coated body, 4Motion as well as a raft of interesting engines 1.8T 5valve, 1.9TDI Pumpe-Düse, FSI (Direct injection) R32, VR 5 etc. Luxurious Interior compared to basically everything in it's class at it's time, very safe with head airbags, esp as standard, ebv as well as msr, xenon headlights heated mirrors and windscreen washers, sat nav, climate control, a very complex safety steering rack, etc. It also got a large part of eastern europe on wheels especially the 1.9Tdi with it's high tuning potential, fuel economy and reliability. The 1.8T engine is still an important stepping stone for young people that are into modifying cars. It basically created the premium hatchback segment which is a very important market segment here in Europe. And finally it got Volkswagen back a reputation for making quality cars which was lost under Lopez ruthless cost cutting. I personally think it looks good and was very practical. The R32 also represents a nice parallel to the 2.3 16 and derivatives.

Nissan GTR: 1. Motorsport 2. Engineering and production like no other before (at this pricepoint) 3. Democratized faceripping hypercar performance at sportcar price. 4. Pivoted inthusiast car industry to 0-60 and skid pad Gs war.

Porsche Cayman? Mid engine for the masses ( of course Fiat X19 and Toyota MR2 did that too); racing involvement; slightly democratized Porsche by being cheaper than a 911; arguably the world's best sportscar when you consider the holistic amalgamation of price/handling/looks/build quality/holding its value/the strength of the PCA and the numerous Porsche themed events one can participate in (PCA local tours and events, Treffens, Parades, Werks, Rennsports Reunions...)

Chevy volt? Brought a new hybrid system and refinement to a some what inexpensive package. A 4 door sloped roof hatchback. Did anyone do that shape well before it? I’m guessing yes but ca not think of it.

R35 GTR - it was the first modern car that pushed crazy magazine numbers mainstream with technology while not providing much, if any, driving enjoyment. I believe the current state of the modern enthusiast cars can be directly traced to the R35.

How about the Honda Fit? A bit on the lower end for sure but it was pretty impressive in terms of build quality, chassis design, dynamics, and safety for something of that size

Renault Espace

❤ the Carmudgeon Podcast.

I was thinking the first generation of the Aluminum/Ecoboost F-150's. Those choices were pretty controversial at the time, but it brought "modern" features to one of the best selling vehicles in the world.

Why not the 986 Boxster? It brought a lot of what everyone loved about Porsche downmarket and kind of made its own segment.

It’s really the Model 3 in terms of “game changing”. Hurts to say as a petrol head getting priced out of the market. I’m increasingly interested in motorcycles. Bought a beginner bike last year and I’m obsessed.

My picks: Miata - it proved you can make affordable sports car and I believe that based on its success we were experiencing tons of affordable sports models coming from Japan and Europe in 90s/00s. Nissan Quashai - started small crossover class, democratized SUVs for ppl, and now thanks to its success - this type of car is most popular worldwide and some brands are making nothing but SUVs. Audi A2 or Smart - one is based on a technology of a flagship Audi A8, but had an interior like A4 from those times. It is a small car, thats feels like a premium car 2 sizes bigger. Small premium car idea. Smart is an example of a first micro car created from a scratch and around this idea, that was done by a huge brand. Proved that you can pack a lot into this space and still make it very very safe in case of an accidents. Many brands followed in europe with idea of making even smaller cars and in a future where cities will become more cramped - we gonna go back to the Smart idea of cars. Nissan GT-R - hyper car performance for a sports car money. Before tesla ppl were taking reaction videos from GT-Rs. Performance was mind-bending and nowadays most of a high performance cars is using same tricks: launch control + powerful turbocharged engine + a lot of technology to provide maximum of a traction in any moment.

Tesla model 3 is best choice on this list. You cannot escape it’s presence in even small towns in the south. You can’t argue with its performance either. As much as I don’t think it’s truly a luxury car it definitely blurs the line especially for the price. Not to mention it’s mechanical simplicity for easier ownership by the masses. The Porsche Cayenne is second only because of how massive the luxury SUV space is now for the price. You can be anybody and afford a Porsche now. It also opened the market for other luxury brands to throw their offerings into the ring at ridiculously low prices, especially on the used market. Even my parents drive a Audi SQ5 now and they’ve never owned a luxury product.

I think the fifth should be the Tesla Model S Plaid. Yes it is expensive, but it achieves acceleration that was thought to be nearly impossible at any price for a production vehicle.

Acura Legend belongs on the list. Honda Prelude had four wheel steering. Acura NSX made supercar technology and handling attainable for half the cost of a Ferrari. just a few suggestions. Dodge created a new class of vehicle with the Caravan.

I’m onto the “most 190E since the 190E” and before I hear the boys, my thoughts on cars that brought innovation to the marketplace and a new/luxury experience to a segment that didn’t have it/exist before…. Acura NSX Lexus LS400 Mk5 GTI/GLI Model S

The Tesla model 3 is the best answer but let me suggest these just for fun: C8 corvette: democratizing big power MR configuration GR Yaris: sufisticated AWD and a racy 3 cylinder to smaller car segment BMW i8: didn't make a splash but a uniquely designed hybrid sports car, won performance car of the year and world green car award

The closest I can think of is the E55 AMG, but not only are those cars also getting more expensive ($15k-$30k), they were V8s and never came in a Manual. You'll have to do a Manual Transmission swap.

2004 MK5 GTI，it basically kicked off the 2.0T direct injected, dual clutch, hatch’s of the world and at the same time offered the best interior quality, NVH, ride quality south of 28K.

Tesla Model 3/Y brought low-maintenance & performance goodness from Model S/Y down to regular-people price range accessibility. Miata brought Lotus Elise 1st Gen form-factor/dynamics/ethos to the masses (with better robustness & pricing). Model Y plus Miata/MX-5 = great "two car solution" for reasonable price points & excellent reliability / low maintenance.

In their heyday, Citroen and Lancia must have been the most innovative automobile manufacturers, not Mercedes - prove me wrong! ;) Nowadays, the only car that strikes me as truly innovative would have to be a Koenigsegg, probably the Regera. Maybe your fifth should be the new Ami? lol

Tesla 3, Toyota Prius, Mazda Miata, Dodge Caravan, Ford Explorer

Being designed as a response to a legislation change is very common BUT it almost always ends up being quoted as justification as to why the end result is so obviously bad.

It took them far longer than I'd thought they would to get to Prius. It's the enduring symbol of vehicle efficiency and paved the way to EVs even if Toyota themselves are lagging behind right now. Econoboxes weren't a new thing, but the Prius and the rest of Toyota's hybrids that followed remarkably changed how we view cars and also how manufacturers view cars. The egg-shaped aero SUVs and Teslas of today can trace their roots to the Insight and Prius. Coupling an electric motor to an ICE powertrain led to things like PHEVs, regenerative braking in passenger cars, and performance hybrids like the Corvette E-ray, all these hybrid exec sedans, the 2nd NSX, and even Formula 1.

Think the Ford Raptor F-150. Certainly brought a vehicle to a new demographic, changed the landscape. Suspension, motor, etc... Think that should have the 5th spot

Great show How about the VW Golf MKIV R32. Yes it was a special version but it shape what many hatchbacks and crossover are today. Really nice interior, good performance (VR6 3.2 and DCT) and the Haldex AWD system. It was cool looking and with sales number exceeding the demand VW planed Also the BMW E32 that changes Mercedes launch date of the W140. It was the first German car with a V12, first car with traction control, adaptive suspension, xenon ligths, parking sensors and high lines version were also crazy spec. Also it used ZF 5 speed transmission and it was big car that was sporty to drive.

I mean, the OG Chrysler Vans changed the landscape for a while

I'd argue the 5th should be the Ford Maverick. Affordable, unibody, re-making the baby truck segment, excellent engineering and features for the price, weird torque vectoring springs on the FWD models (same as the Fiesta ST).

GR Yaris/Corlla, innovative AWD system, built for motorsport but ended up not being able to compete in the motorsport it was developed for, moved the brand into a market it was not traditionally known for, made it's most direct competitor (arguably WRX/Sadly departed STI), expensive but extremely reasonable for what you get. I think the GR Yaris/Corolla deserves to at least be part of the competition.

Chrysler minivan, completely new vehicle type

What about VW Phaeton. It’s definitely not a mass market car, but it brought essentially a Bentley to a lower price bracket and is engineered to an incredibly high extreme. I’m just not sure if the price point disqualifies it.

I’m only a couple minutes in, but my vote for most 190E is likely the Model 3 Performance. Though I think a reiteration of the 3 with the innovations from the CyberTruck would be more accurate.

I feel like the Raptor belongs on this list. Brought about the whole Baja/ pre-running thing. Copied by everyone now. First real performance off-road truck. Incredibly popular. Has the performance history, winning Baja. 5-link suspension was new for trucks (pretty sure?).

I genuinely laughed out loud when Derek said that he actually done a case study on innovation risk taking regarding the Prius, Jason immediately knew he couldn't argue it 😂

How about smart car? Or maybe Toyota Yaris GR if you want something related to motorsports. The new Mini was also a car that transcended class (in the truest British sense)

Ford Raptor - Created the genre of an "extreme Off Road" trim level with associated re-engineering and equipment upgrades to take an existing platform (F150 and consequently EVERY SUV, truck and even most Subarus) upmarket and into a more desirable niche. Chevrolet Volt - Shaped the entire movement towards electrified automobiles by spurring battery tech engineering and the associated software and hardware needs required to make it feasible. Made the concept of "driving a giant battery around" and public charging socially acceptable and "mundane".

Volvo 850R - First side impact airbags. Passive rear wheel steering. Motorsports (BTCC). New market for sporty wagon in the US. Wheel arches are... .blockular.

1) original Ford Explorer 2) original Prius 3) GM super cruise 4) GM magRide 5) original Lexus LS 6) Tesla model S 7) Jaguar I-PACE - first luxury EV / Tesla competitor

My immediate thought was Lexus LS400. Possibly not the most technically original but its quality and refinement at a price nobody else could get near has to get some credit, and even more impressive in hindsight given how long lasting they are. The other one, which some will scoff at, is the original Mercedes A-Class. High profile boo-boo on launch aside it had true Mercedes innovation behind it. That sandwich platform design meant you could have big-car safety (as the engine hard point would slide underneath in a crash) and big car space (E-Class equivalent) in a platform shorter than a Ford Ka and affordable to average consumers. Doesn't have W201-style longevity but maybe Prius aside, we're yet to see whether Model 3s, Rivians, Cayennes etc will last as long as a 190E either...

Mk IV Golf/ Bora. Interior of an Audi. Overengineered. Origin of ISOFIX. Will probably stay on the roads far longer than its immediate successor. More expensive than rivals but sold extremely well. Timeless design.

I was screaming NSX the whole time, new market for honda, changed the sports car forever and had an innovative engine and chassis, it was the 190 of sports cars. Lexus is300 was a copy paste of the 190 formula 15 years later, it wasnt innovative but like the 190 it was a smaller s class or ls400 and brought that level of luxury to the masses. Mk7 Golf because it brought top level quality to the masses as well. All of these are also beautiful cars with a bit of motorsport history.

@JasonCammisa you have a show called revelations... Yet none of those got a mention as cars that broke ground technically or by what they offered... And surprised you didn't think of the Golf GTI or Peugeot 205 as bringing performance and practicality to the masses .... And following on from your Z car episode ..started the trend of a Swiss army knife car... All things to all people... Well at least those of average means

MX5 / Miata surely has to be on this list. Mazda reignited a very dead segment (open top affordable sports car) with a super affordable, highly desirable, good looking car and in turn, sold a bucket load over three decades. This segment before its arrival was synonymous with shocking reliability, compromised practicality, questionable building quality, very low volume sales etc etc. Mazda”s innovation was in creating a car which inverted all of those historical attributes and in the process created an icon, one which the masses have embraced and enjoyed since inception. In my view meets all your key criteria… Surely on the list no?

Sitting here screaming about the Chevy Volt as you argue Priuses (Prii?). Much like the Prius established the mild hybrid, the Volt proved the small battery EV with an engine onboard for charging and highway use was effective and led to almost every manufacturer now offering a PHEV in their lineup today.

If I bought a modern day 190E, it'd be a Giulia. The regular has similar aspirations, nice comfy 4 cylinder with more performance than expected, great ride handling characteristics, beats the segment in chassis rigidity and weight. Amazing little car, and the QF is gorgeous and has racing pedigree. Model 3 is trash compared.

The editing during the exchange about the Jeep Cherokee at 33:35 is perfect. I would argue that the second generation of Prius more than the 1st gen because it's just so iconic and doesn't just look like a Yaris with a battery pack.

Kind of a stretch, but the C8 Corvette certainly democratized an exotic format in the US market. Also the King Ranch F150 brought very high end interior, and relative car-like driving experience to farmers and construction contractors.

The ford raptor hits most boxes. Besides size. Suspension was revolutionary for a street legal truck. Every truck manufacturer has been playing catch up since it was released. Created the trophy truck for the streets market. And definitely democratized Baja trucks

To go with the death of the Rover episode idea you could make another about Holden(Ford Australia) my 5 Bugatti Veyron, Hyundai i30 N, LFA, Model 3 and the Honda N-Box but damn this question is hard

Small point: Mercedes had built a small version of a larger car before, and it was also a 190 sedan. I had a 1959 that was a compact version of the same-era 220 sedan. Nice little car, comfortable and well made, but rather stodgy. But nowhere on the stodgy scale compared to the diesel version.

Thought of another which truthfully does little in terms of advancement, but it forced other players in the segment to get the “shit” together. The R35 GT-R. Porsche literally revamped the 911 turbo, created a GT2 code named after the lap time, and refocused aspects of their GT program to beat that car. The transaxle AWD system was a first (not sure about that one), and when the car debuted it cost less than anything from Europe remotely fast enough to not immediately see the tail lights.

Cars that broke segment ground thru innovation: Original Taurus; Original Explorer; Tesla Model S; Honda Insight; Cadillac CTS-V

Mayyyybe first Renault Espace? Complete innovation in packaging and space menagement. Popularised minivans for 30 years

Not sure if it was mentioned but the R32 Nissan Skyline GT-R comes to mind. It had many innovations used in one place atessa/4wd/twin turbo torque split etc not all Nissan ideas but certainly brought together for the first time. It offered a level of performance that was almost absurd for the late 80s and it did it at a much more affordable price range than any of the European equivalents. And of course the motorsports side is unbelievable. It changed what people thought they could get in performance over night. R32 gtr

What about the RX? The Cayenne introduced the higher end segment, maybe a sportier variation of the segment, but didn’t the RX introduce the segment…

Prelude? First car with 4 wheel steering. Seems like the idea disappeared for a while but is making a comeback

Did Korean EVs democratize 800v charging architecture? Could count as technical innovation.

Interesting topic fellas. I had a few freshly good time watching you two being flung around by your spasmodic intellects. Right up to the cop-out driverless closer. I don't care, I think you guys are radical, plus I too make compromises. Lol

The mid engined c-8 Corvette, bringing the super/hyper car and the E-Rey’s front electric motor’s and torque vectoring to the masses at a reasonable price.

Cayenne call killed it, sat there shaking my head yes

Fiat panda series 1 with 4wd 1983. Lancia delta w/ 4wd (1986). Both after 1982 so they count. Both 4wd in small segments, packaging tech innovation, delta in rally, panda was the cheapest 4wd car in Europe during its entire time. Panda made a new segment completely.

Very surprised that they did not list R35 gtr. A super car for $90 that was comfortable enough to drive every day and awd. It changed everything. It made the LFA obsolete before it ever went on sale.

Tesla, literally, took from Mercedes. Their early year Model Ss borrowed switchgear from the W212 E-Class

Ok, I'm only a few minutes into the discussion and I don't know where you guys will land, so here's my opinion. The car that most closely matches the 190E's characteristics is the Genesis G70. Let's see where you two end up on this.

Volkswagen Golf mark 1 GTI. Brought hot hatch into masses

Nissan GTR. Democratising the supercar for non millionaires.

Men will literally do ANYTHING to avoid piech-isode