Automatic vs Manual Transmission - Can You Beat a DCT Gearbox in a Manual? 

Difference around a circuit between a RWD and FWD car with and without Limited Slip Differential would be cool! Maybe also comparing it with 2 different kind of skill level drivers.

it would be nice to see this test with some regular cars, not only high performance ones. Like a vw golf 7 1.4 tsi 150 manual vs dsg.

How about differences between various alignment settings? Would be nice to see more regular (but sporty-ish) cars for a change. There's quite a saturation of high performance car content and it can be quite passe tbh...

Test brake pads

To do properly it would need to be the same car or at least very close in stats, and I'm not sure such vehicle exists

Haha thank you!

yeah cuz otherwise it's really pointless comparing car to car.

I do things like add an extra 1 psi to the left wheels to allow for roundabouts and keep tyre wear even. On my van the engine sits over the right hand side so that side front is slightly more inflated. I adjust the rears all the time to account for loads and run higher pressures on long runs where there is little cornering. I can nudge 70mpg fully loaded and beat the official 0 - 60 time by 4 seconds with it half loaded. It's all about having the exact correct rpm at launch at knowing the optimum revs to change gear which isn't the redline. I would have added the 3KG in that test too, it's only right as the comparison was about the box not the car. I would have put the weight in the boot in a futile attempt to aid traction though. There's another test, how much weight in the boot is enough to aid performance in a RWD car and how much will hinder it both acceleration and handling wise. Back in the day when people were driving Capri's and Opel Manta's I'd hear talk of throwing bags of cement in the boot. I've thought about it in my E46 330CD as the traction control is an absolute waste of time.

like those 3 kg made difference... still a pointless decision

lol because 3 KGs matters. You need approx 20 lbs of sprung weight and 1/lb of unsprung weight to notice a difference.

For laptime I know of two direct comparisons. Motor trend and Randy Pobst took a Camaro ZL1 6MT and 10AT around big willow. The difference was 0.32 seconds in favor of the manual. Later they tested a PDK and Manual 991.2 GT3 the PDK was 0.2 seconds faster. Overall there is a small difference from a pro but personally I find the Automatic car allows me more brain power to concentrate on the chassis. However whichever you are more comfortable with will probably be faster for you.

@@memememine1 That's what I'm talking about - I've seen numbers here and there that manuals may be a lot closer to automatics over an actual course than they are in a straight 0-60 launch, but as far as I can tell there have been no detailed tests exploring that.

@@ARCNA442 I think the reason is because it's driver dependent. Driving on a track is so dependent on driver confidence that the performance advantage the automatic might give you might be negated if the driver is uncomfortable with the way it shifts. Personally I find it incredibly unsettling in a manual on track when I am smoothly squeezing the accelrator out of a corner, smoothly unwinding the steering and I realize I'm going to run out of revs. I hate the feeling of having to upshift with significant cornering load. However for other drivers used to manuals I could see it can feel incredibly unsettling to have the automatic gearbox gear ratio change, engine brake increase, and have no ability to control the clutch.

except there are aftermarket tweaks to the manual from the clutch to the flywheel and then the shift lever and even the gears with expensive conversion kits for those with money, so that minor advantage goes even further to a manual on a track, it also depends on the track and how many corners as manuals can downshift quicker so tracks with more corners give a further advantage to manual.

@@kemalkeza6795 manuals cannot downshift faster. Sure you can skip gears but any modern automatic can go from it's highest to it's lowest ratio faster than you can press the clutch in.

Good to know, thanks!

@@tyrereviews... and the curb weights are shockingly high, my main gripe with these cars...

@@onehorsepower how heavy

onehorsepower yep - 1650+kg for a performance car is rubbish! It reduces chassis responsiveness.

@@tylercouture216 1:44 1683kg fullt tank without driver for DCT

It's high on the list. It should be done before the summer is out :)

Literally the first 10 seconds stating.. no to the whole tire thing Haha

Thanks so much!

All very good points :) Modern / well programmed DCT boxes can do some of those, like 4 and 7, but manual is just more fun

1. DCT's slip the clutch a low speed similar to how you would a manual 2. DCT's kick down extremely fast (faster than any human could) so you are in the power band as it's programmed to do that.. 3. I can shift to neutral on the move in my DCT Golf R 4. I can quickly flip the gears up using the paddle much in the same way 5. Good point 6. See point 4 7. Many cars with DCT can hold the gear and allow you to hit the limiter (But not all) Manuals are much more fun and you are definitely more involved in driving, but DCT's have come a long way in the past couple of years.

Also some cars have a dedicated drift mode.

Why would you make such a long list and be wrong about almost every single point ? Your life must suck being that ignorant.

@@norcofoxxx Sounds like DCT has improved a lot since I last tried it. I think I should go and test drive a Golf GTI. Do you still need to service it every 30K miles?

This comes up a lot, I'd like to give it ago!

Premium fuel Vs standard in both power gains or fuel economy

Brake pads in general. OE vs aftermarket

Would love to see a review on brake pad brands ( road use, track race versions + a road / sheet performance pad version ? ) like EBC versus OEM etc.

The point of premium fuel is to avoid engine knocking and cleaning the system, nothing else

Thank you! 👍

Trying my best!

Awesome, thank you!

Awesome, thank you!

I have a VW Golf with the DCT. It's very convenient in heavy traffic and way better than the conventional automatic... but not as fun as a manual !!

Fouad LAHLOUH funnily enough I’ve got a Golf R manual as a daily and totally agree. The DSG box changes the car, for me it detracts from the involvement

Most people in HK think it’s crazy to drive a manual daily but it’s so much fun I must keep driving manual until my left leg becomes cripple 😆 hope there will be hand clutch for road cars by then

wcytim you could switch to a bike yknow :D also people that say a dct is just as smooth as a manual while getting kicked in the back with every geae shift

@@Ginbaubabe I've been driving for forty years and have owned fifteen cars,all of them manual. Drove a Aston DB9 paddle didn't like it,but it was a old model and the change was slow.I like to heel and toe,so manual cars for me. I bought a manual M2 and it took me some time to find one!

Our pleasure!

Geeks gotta geek :)

@@tyrereviews geeks gotta physique

Solid logic

DCT is a good for a track car if there are no cooling issues. I like the fact that DCT makes it impossible to mis-shift and break something.

@@helixworld which makes it boring also. Same goes if the car drives itself ;)

@@onehorsepower Boring yet less of a headache. With a manual, most people always have a heartbreak after a launch. Ah...the clutch!

All very fair points

Couldn't agree more, if we compared a manual with a conventional torque converter auto definitely manual will win but if we compare it with modern dual clutch auto then human error can't match the robotic precision

Nearly always true, except for American sport/supercars like corvettes camaros vipers etc, they set nurburgring records in manuals but also need very very skilled drivers

Sequential manuals are usually the fastest - similar shift speed with lower weight. Even this test shows an average manual - it doesn't like to be rushed and that rev hang slows you down a bit. Personally I couldn't care less which is faster. Auto's are nicer daily drivers, manuals are better for engagement. A good manual is better than an average auto and vice versa. For instance this manual isn't as fast as the dct but this dct isn't as good as the manual for slow manouvering and so on.

@@user-hc5si5tw5p wasn't the Camaro ZL1 record set with the auto?

I have a big brake kit for the M3 so hopefully it'll answer some questions :)

Whether you drive an automatic or a manual, you're still performing "real driving". Enough with that auto bad, manual good bullshit.

I would rather have Automatic Transmission, Semi-Automatic Transmission, CVT Transmission, and DCT Transmission.

@@pathmaker2337 No, it's driving with the car selecting the gear for you! (-:

@@LRM12o8 I don't think you've driven a DCT in your life.

He’d break it!

Awesome! Thank you!

The fact it was low grip really helped the clutch, after all there's no wear when the rears are spinning ;)

@@tyrereviews 🤣🤣🤣

Same. I love the DCT. I had a Miata before the M2 and the manual trans in the M2 felt really weird and "spongy", if that makes sense. DCT was just the better choice imo.

Great point!

Glad you liked it!

Great point!

You don't need to be a gear change wizard who never fluffs a change. Anybody can be quick off the lights with a DCT. Manual is more fun though - you need to think more, read the road more. You need to be awake! It's more engaging.

Glad you liked it!

Glad you enjoyed it

I thought dct is not automatic

Except u drive automatic

@@questy4tw Imagine taking an automatic seriously

Thank you!

So why bother how they want to drive their car?

By this logic, people who don't manually crank their engine with crank handles aren't real drivers.

@@briank10101 The shit femanuals come out with gets more and more frantic, desperate and weird the less manuals are produced. I almost feel sorry for them. I'd imagine you had the same shit from the last of the horse holdouts as the numbers dropped to about 1.75% opting for a horse over a car (where the manual vs DCT/automatic numbers are now): "But my horse is more engaging..."

Thanks!

Totally agree

do you buy car to not get bored? or to drive you from point A to point B?

@@charlesa1234 I chose cars that aren't boring. Autotragics are always boring.

@@charlesa1234 If I want a car to drive from point A to B I would drive an auto🤮 than a manual. Manual is an elite transmission, and nobody get bored with that.

You'll be sad to know some of it is fake sound :(

My last car was a 330d f30 manual my current one is the same car but with dct, the automatic (1st one I've owned) is so much more fun than any manual I've owned especially when some dreamer (usually in an audi) tries to beat me off the lights😂

Nice :)

235i sounds nicer too.

haha not my gearbox so perhaps I'll skip that one!

For timing anything, auto wins easily. Manuals are great for fun, although honestly most really fast cars aren't that much fun anyway in isolation, they're just for showing off (not that I'm against doing that).

@@ApothecaryTerry it just depends, not every manual transmission can shift fast. In all just depends on the driver and the skill of shiftin.

Unless you're a Formula One driver, you're probably not gonna get better times without AWD, automatic gearbox and electronic helpers. But where's the fun in that? Do you race to see what the sophisticated systems of your car are capable of, or to see what *you as a driver* are capable of?

Thanks for the idea!

Thanks!

haha as soon as gyms reopen I'll b there!

If I had a hand that moved as fast as the dct I would stay single forever!

One for another video :)

Will be quicker, just. But wipe the floor? Nah. And the manual driver will be enjoying the car more.

Michael haha, give me driving pleasure over Willy waving any day. So many people put bragging numbers at the bar at the top of their list of important things about their car. Drivers put driving pleasure and connection with the experience at the top. Two different demographics.

@@Audidude It will wipe the floor with manual. Every gear change is slower plus missed gear changes plus in wrong gear at wrong time. Even if you you do not make any mistakes the longer the circuit the faster DCT will be - it is simple maths with everything else absolutely identical in ideal world testing conditions. With manual box you will always make mistakes with gear changes - DCT doesn't . If you know your DCT you can drive even faster than in auto mode using paddles.

For an amateur, thea, but for a pro, fifth gear tested it an it was 0.1,0.2 sec slower.

Thanks 👍

Thanks!

Nah. Not quite. I had the ZF8 in my m235i and then DCT in my M2. ZF8 probably the finest and quickest TC auto I ever used and somewhat comparable on upshifts on actual speed. Even then, it didnt compare to DCT downshifts and overall responsiveness. ZF8 often gave some really weird and rough shifts in manual mode while DCT is much more consistent.

@@MrAchilles113 I did say 'almost all' DCT's. Which is true. The BMW DCT's are particularly good, and the Porsche PDK is amazing, but and I am basing my opinion on experience of driving lots of modern cars (I work in the motor trade), and the ZF8 is a better gearbox than most DCT's from almost any other volume manufacturer. I'm talking none-premium manufacturers specifically. I stand by my comment.

@@DjNikGnashers and i agree with you too. ZF8 with bmw tune especially (it was terrible in c7 vette for instance) was easily one of the best and closest to DCT I've experienced. Apparently the newest one in the m5 abs soon to launch m3 are even better. That said, I'm disappointed the m4/m3 didn't stick with dct. Bmw's was excellent and suited those cars better

I appreciate that!

Who cares about .2 of a second when you can have the total control on your car thanks to the manual?

@@pierrecolombo4654 you have total control of your car when you use shift pedals with the DTC. Personally I have had about 80 % of my cars manuals but would never go back to manual again, especially DTC is fun. Don't know about the 8-speed torque converters, which come with the G80 M3

Good idea. I actually have a test coming soon with the RainSport 5 in which should be good!

I've driven the N55 a fair bit and it doesn't feel as punchy, I'd be surprised if it matched the S55

You must have tiny rims

Granted my body fat is a little on the high side right now, my arm circumference matches my cars wheel diameter. The cars a little older, but so am I.

Yeah. really stands out when wearing a tight small t-shirt.

Great suggestion! There's actually a lot of sound data on www.tyrereviews.com for UHP tyres too, might be worth checking out

Totally!

Working on it :)

Well, then I am sorry for the racing drivers, because they just "ride". (Most of the modern race cars have automatic transmission, like F1, LMP1, WRC etc) And my point is: It is not the 70's.

Wow!

Tomasz Paluch perfect reasoning to this argument! Also, you have two dads and a boyfriend if you choose a manual.

@@DStabs720 What's more manly than two men together :D

Agreed

I disagree, I prefer a manual on the street specifically because it makes me pay attention to and is far more fun than an auto. As for lap times-if you aren't a professional-(which no one is)-having fun is probably your priority. A lot of manuals come with auto rev matching as well, So buy a manual and have more fun.

A collegue of mine drives ambulances in his spare time, he became a friend of automatic gearboxes. quote: "when you are already struggeling to drive the high center of gravity thing you want both your hands on the steering wheel." As for myself: while i have 2 auto cars, it's less because of me wanting these gearboxes but that they both weren't even sold with a manual. After owning 6 different cars with auto gearboxes, and having driven a few others as company cars i find that, as with any programmed softwarecontrolled thing, auto gearboxes have "glitches": They might be rare, but over the years you get some. Sometimes they won't kick down.(for 5-10 seconds and then suddenly when you aren't expecting it anymore...) Somtimes they engage a gear rough and you don't know why. Sometimes they stay in a gear way longer than you want. Or if you take the praised ZF 8 speed in a last gen VW Touareg we have in the company, that in a few speeds just can't decide which gear to use and constantly changes up-down-up-down... Not that humans always shift the way they should. But then i can blame my own, and it's kind of more predictable when it happens. I don't like DCTs in traffic much, because most of them are not that smooth off the stop and only few of them are "wet" cluthcpacks. The dry ones, in lots of Stop and go, heat up and wear out quicker. A torque converter auto in traffic is fine with me. But then again it depends on the programming done to it. *cough VW Touareg *cough). I don't go on racetracks, so i don't care for tenths of seconds. Driving on twisty mountain roads sometimes i wish my "fun car" would have a manual.

Glad you like them!