BACK-TO-BACK DYNO TEST: 6.4L Hemi Gets Intake, Headers, Camshaft!

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Ever wanted to see dyno data between intake, headers, and camshaft on a 6.4L Hemi, all back-to-back? Yeah, we did too! This video covers each of our Naturally Aspirated Staged Packages for 6.4L Hemi explained, installed & tuned, and put to the test back-to-back!
Follow along in the shop as we take this 2021 Dodge Challenger R/T Scat Pack from showroom stock, to Stage-1, Stage-2, and Stage-3, with results highlighted throughout. Below are the contents of each Package covered:
Stage-1
• JLT Performance Series-II air-intake system
• National Speed in-house ECU/PCM unlock (for 2015-2021 models)
• SmartAccess cable (for 2018-2021 models)
• Optional JLT Performance air-oil separator
• Optional MotoRad 180° thermostat
Stage-2
• All Stage-1 contents, plus:
• Stainless Works Stainless Power 1.875" primary ID long-tube headers
• OEM Mopar exhaust manifold gaskets
Stage-3
• All Stage-1 & Stage-2 contents, plus:
• COMP Cams Stage-2 HRT 273° camshaft
• COMP Cams phase limiter
• COMP Cams pushrods
• COMP Cams Beehive valve springs
• COMP Cams steel retainers
• COMP Cams locks
• COMP Cams spring seats
• COMP Cams valve seals
• NGK Spark Plugs LZTR6AIX-13 spark plugs
• OEM Mopar SRT Hellcat hydraulic valve lifters
• OEM Mopar SRT Hellcat engine oil pump
• OEM Mopar gaskets & seals
• OEM Mopar fasteners
• OEM Mopar coolant
• Mobil1 0W-40 synthetic engine oil
• Lucas Oil Zinc-Plus break-in oil additive
• Optional OEM Mopar SRT Hellcat 92mm throttle body
• Optional ported OEM intake manifold
We want to hear from you!
Contact Us: nationalspeedinc.com/contact
Phone: 833-628-7733
Connect with National Speed online:
Subscribe to our RU-vid channel: / nationalspeedinc
Visit our Website: nationalspeedinc.com
Like us on Facebook: / nationalspeed
Follow us on Instagram: / nationalspeed
Visit us at one of our shops: nationalspeedinc.com/locations
00:00 - Intro
00:48 - Stage Breakdown
02:15 - Baseline
02:42 - Stage 1 Install
03:40 - Stage 1 Dyno
04:23 - Stage 2 Install
05:12 - Stage 2 Dyno
05:49 - Stage 3 Install
06:42 - Stage 3 Dyno
07:47 - Outro

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Опубликовано:

25 июл 2024

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Комментарии : 201

@NoahBB 2 года назад

Really enjoy the well shot and thoroughly documented process.

@barrymoore3119 2 года назад

Outstanding video that lays out quite well the stages. I have a late model Scat Charger that I'm now thinking could use the Stage 1 and 2 treatment...

@Anthony-vq4tq 2 года назад

We need more videos like this

@jtc1964x Год назад

Great video! Just added a BGE block 6.4 to my 300C and it is great to see how the mods raise the power.

@bennydrives 2 года назад

Getting the stage 3 package on my 5.7 in December!

@jjcuff1 2 года назад

That’s awesome. I have a stage 1/2 without the headers and a TB. It seems headers are a small bump across all the mods. I like the stage 3 cam and tune

@Kyle-xt8ip 2 года назад

That's a really thorough cam package. I'm intrigued.

@NationalSpeedInc 2 года назад

Hey! For additional information, feel free to fill out our form on our website, a Performance Consultant will reach out to you. www.nationalspeedinc.com/contact

@392starsnstripes Год назад

Love it I'm excited, I will be taking my 392 charger to you guys 👍🏼💪🏽

@BigCoinNapkins 2 года назад

Yessir..got mine last week 🙋🏿🙋🏿🙋🏿

@docfischer7291 Год назад

I’m glad you guys stuck with one engine . Richard Holdner did a test with a 5.7 but then changes to it being a stroker engine . Not exactly apples to apples type “testing” .

@downsouthtv4616 2 года назад

Awesome video

@ScorpioFPS 9 месяцев назад

Great music choice of NIN

@scarface9617 Год назад

It'd really be nice, to do a base run of 0-60.. 1/8.. 1/4mile run.. (Before & After) ..Everything is Installed!

@tommiller8714 Год назад

Impressive results, specially in the midrange. Amazing how much you've "cleaned up" the transition [between long runner & short runner] with the stock OE intake plastic manifold. Wonder how an aftermarket aluminum manifold would perform? Question: I can see from the video that you offer a Stage 3 (camshaft) option; Do you offer upgraded Heads (example: Edelbrock heads)? And "drop-in" pistons/rods (forged) upgrade? Options for increased cr (N/A) or lower cr (boost application)? Thanks! Tom M. '21Challenger SP/WB, 8A.

@Spork40k 2 года назад

Love it!

@Clutched392 2 года назад

I’d like to see a stage 4 package with a larger throttle body and ported intake manifold

@Thurmanatr16 2 года назад

Great call out, that sounds like the perfect compliment to the already advertised packages!

@downsouthtv4616 2 года назад

I want to see that also.

@paulvo7955 2 года назад

7:35 he mentions adding the hellcat throttle body and a ported intake

@NationalSpeedInc 2 года назад

Good call! As inVolved Garage mentioned, we offer that as an option with this package. We'll publish a video on that next opportunity!

@downsouthtv4616 2 года назад

@@NationalSpeedInc you can use my scat pack as the test subject if needed 👀😂

@braydenwatts2968 11 месяцев назад

Might take my 22 scat widebody to you guys for this after my deployment 🤷‍♂️

@Shawnie_sama Год назад

I love these videos because they go into detail and steps with the stages and how much each makes power but i wish they’d do these on a 5.7 because so many people have those and they came out the factory pretty much choked up made to not perform like the 6.2 or 6.4

@ricky-sanchez Год назад

Imagine being 5' 7'" and looking at someone 6'2" or 6'4" and thinking "imma upgrade through dead lifts and pullups." No replacement for displacement.

@eatdatshoplifter4459 11 месяцев назад

@@ricky-sanchezlol the 5.7 block can actually handle boost unlike 6.1s or 6.4s. Real easy to get 700+ hp out of a 5.7 without tearing down the block.

@AirsoftHemi 2 года назад

Great video! I guess i must be Stage 3

@srt8rocketship241 2 года назад

Had the stage 2 Comp cam , springs , Hellcat lifters , Magnaflow cat back and a catch can in my 2012 srt-8. With just that , when you punch it , you better pay attention or you may end up in a ditch or around a light pole. Love it as it's very calm if you want it to be.

@gtojay9607 15 дней назад

How much power to the wheels did you make man? I just got mine done and I got 433 to the wheels..thought that was kinda low

@srt8rocketship241 15 дней назад

@@gtojay9607 I have to look at the sheet again , but maybe next seemed kinda low also , around 450 I think. The tuner told me that any different day you can have a different number. It feels good and just in sport mode it gets real loose and that makes it more fun to me. If I'm rolling at around 25 or 30 mph , that's when it really stands up. I'll look at that sheet again for you. Hell , there may be a better tune out there that could make a difference. Also , the tuner reprogrammed the trans for harder shifts. Made another big difference.

@killmonger_3927 2 года назад

Me watching from California like 🥺

@bigkarl24 9 месяцев назад

Leave the state

@Josealvarezofficial_ 6 месяцев назад

Frlz built my car so much now I can’t even drive the thing

@armandogonzalez7408 3 месяца назад

Same 😭😭😭

@scarface9617 Год назад

that ol'Challenger should run lil'Stout.. looks 'n sounds nice, too!

@dsm4959 2 года назад

Also, good informative video

@poneklr 2 года назад

The big gain in the midrange was due to tuning/smoothing out the transition from short runner to long runner.

@NationalSpeedInc 2 года назад

Bingo! It has a huge impact on the driving experience.

@donsonbr Год назад

would love to do it but would void the warranty...when the warranty is up I will do this !!

@chrish1215 Год назад

hope to see a heads change

@392_Tish Месяц назад

I did the math if anyone’s curious, stock it was making 429 baseline I think it said, but i did the measured factory powered: 485 Unlocked ecu, headers and jlt intake it goes from 485 to 592.27 hp, THATS if it reached peak on the Dyno, cammed it would possibly reach peak 673.38 hp, doesn’t sound true but adding all those power gain numbers up that’s what you get, with the correct tuning and stuff

@krieg-xiv8317 2 года назад

Man! What a fantastic video! About how much does this full setup run?

@NationalSpeedInc 2 года назад

Reach out to us and let us know a little bit more about your car! nationalspeedinc.com/contact/

@Torchninja 2 года назад

geez that is awesome. I'm in Arizona I think the transport would be more than stage three.It would be worth it though

@NationalSpeedInc 2 года назад

We'd love to get your set up! If you'd like to learn more, shoot us an email to sales@nationalspeedinc.com.

@EverydayWithBobby 2 года назад

Would you all add a supercharger from a Redeye challenger, on a R/T scat pack challenger for me? 😂 I know there’s more that would need to be done but just trying to find the best place to have it worked on…this video definitely convinced me. SUBSCRIBED!!!

@ricky-sanchez Год назад

track car, no warranty.

@chrisrodriguez5422 2 года назад

those are some good gains imagine with a 2 step or turbo dammmm i want to see a turbo with this setup

@moedigzz 2 года назад

"Imagine with a 2 step....." a "2 step" doesn't add power. It is simply a lower RPM limiter designed to aid in launching at the track.

@sreyes71687 2 года назад

Witchcraft... lol. Very informative and surprisingly calming vid. Just purchased a scat and going down the mod worm hole and found this. Keep up the great work all you perfectly normal techs.

@NationalSpeedInc 2 года назад

We're glad you liked it, Samuel! We'll keep it up.

@Highlander1432 Год назад

Yes so good to see NORMAL calm professionals working on these cars. Omg some of these guys on other channels are weirdos.

@ropace37 7 месяцев назад

As a fellow SP owner, I feel it’s only necessary to warn ya, That’s a very deep “wormhole”! 😂

@sebbonxxsebbon6824 Год назад

Does the air get better when actually driving? My 1985 Corvette picked up almost nothing on a dyno (unless the hood was closed) but had a real ram air set up that picked up at speed.

@THEHYp3man 2 года назад

Love it

@bossstrick Год назад

What would you make with your stage 3 on a 426 short block install?

@CharlieCarmichael 2 года назад

🔥🔥🔥

@userundefined01 9 месяцев назад

I noticed this Challenger has the hood with the heat extractor vents over the open box air filter. How do you keep water from getting on the filter when it rains or car wash?

@PaulCourville Год назад

I have three questions… 1. Where are you located? 2. How much do the three stages cost? 3. Are the stage kits available for a Durango SRT 392?

@ropace37 7 месяцев назад

What if I have a Shaker and would like to keep it without switching stock CAI. Any chance Stage 1 could involve everything but replacing stock CAI, then proceed to stage 2?

@1439of2000 Год назад

I like slipping the nine inch nails in the soundtrack.

@danfarge7447 2 года назад

How best t What is the best way to find out a price of the stage three package

@BEASTKILLER_22 5 месяцев назад

Surprised how little the longtubes added after the intake

@5abivt 2 года назад

The camshaft seems to be a little underwhelming in gains unless it was meant to be an extremely mild one. From stage 1-2 the gains were only 9 rwhp .. that’s also a little underwhelming for headers and high flow cats. Possible showing that the oem stuff is fairly decent flowing. The cam over stage 2 only picks up 26rwhp 😳. Again maybe just extremely mild and stock-like manners. I know if it were me it would be getting ported heads, hollow valves and a huge solid roller cam 😎

@NationalSpeedInc 2 года назад

The best dollar per horsepower mod is a supercharger :)

@delarosadevin 2 года назад

Hemis and A killer soundtrack ill take it. 😂

@NationalSpeedInc 2 года назад

Glad you're loving it!

@tunjitube17 2 года назад

How do you guys feel about magna flow exhaust

@392_frankie Год назад

I’m located in California and I want to get this done where are you guys located at

@MrRatFinkster Год назад

What is that dip in the stock curve attributable to?

@nate857 4 месяца назад

is it necessary to change your fuel pump if u have a big camshaft and long tube headers with an exhaust system on a 5.7 hemi

@AWWWMAN80 Год назад

Can I get all of that on my challenger scat pack. I want it all ALL OF IT 💯💯💯💯💯💯

@BewseyyPvPLivinLife 7 месяцев назад

Im so confused why the scat pack is 485hp stock and its only getting the same HP with a stage 3 setup???

@Fxzi904 3 месяца назад

Is there a reason yall use Mobil 1 over penzoil ? Just curious

@lilmarc3063 8 месяцев назад

Do you need to have high flow cats with long tubes ?

@CreativeDawnzz Год назад

What is the price breakdown for each stage?

@mustangspartan 11 месяцев назад

Do you have this for the 392 set jeeps ?

@noahrathgeb 2 года назад

You should overlay each stages dyno over the previous stage's so we can see the difference in stages under the curve. Looks like headers were worth 5-6 ft lbs and maybe 10whp at peak over stage 1's intake/tune

@mikew6135 2 года назад

Not sure why headers are such poor performers on our hemis. I'd like to see 2 1/8 in primaries with 3.5in collectors for my Hellcat. We.make.big block low end torque but have header choices used for.naturally aspirated motors. Not.surr why this is the norm. We also only rev these engines to mid 6k or 7k. Not enough rpm for huge power. We need TI intake valves, Manton rocker shafts Stanke collars and braces, probably roller rockers and 7500rpm limits. This would bring the 6.4 and 6.2 up to where it needs to be

@noahrathgeb 2 года назад

@@mikew6135 mostly because the stock headers are very well optimized and are high flow shorties. I think the longtubes are worth if you plan on adding a cam and/or motor work but for the cost I don’t think I’d do em until I did a cam at minimum. If you took the cats off you might see 5-10whp more but a lot of people wont do that anymore. Your hellcat should easily make power to 6600+ stock looking at a few dynos, everyone lets off so early at 6100ish with hp still going up on the curve. I haven’t seen any rocker arms made for our hemis except the Arrington ones and I don’t think they are being made anymore

@Ws6Ms 2 года назад

@@mikew6135 hp peak at 6k to 7k is enough to make big power

@connormcallum4032 6 месяцев назад

How long does an installation for the stage 3 package take?

@darkseid8899 2 месяца назад

How much does it cost for the stage 3 package? I have a 2019 Dodge Daytona scat pack. I just had the Corsa Extreme installed on my car. Where are you guys located?

@stevehartz4615 5 месяцев назад

How much dose 1,2,3, cost out the door?? I use Ames oil way better.

@Toxichemi345 Год назад

What was that stuff he put on gaskets

@the_hulk392 Год назад

"Not a bad way to spend 10 thousand dollars" D. Toretto

@edgarlobato2748 Год назад

How much is the cost for stage 3 ?

@phantomofficial2802 2 года назад

😍🔥

@waynes603 5 месяцев назад

how long did this whole build take?

@corruption1724 2 года назад

Best mods in my opinion are ported intake, throttle body, and cold air intake for the money. The others cost a lot more and see a lot more involvedfor the same 20hp gains

@travis4308 2 года назад

Umm the long tub headers, and cam alone smoke everything else on this list. You want to go faster in a car that already gets it it won’t be cheap. You sound like you think in terms of a Honda Civic and eBay. Do your self a fav and don’t buy a 45,000 dollar car yet till you get more knowledge and wisdom under your belt.

@CEOLISSS 2 года назад

@@travis4308 He's trying to say it's not worth paying 10k for a weak 20 hp increase and still get smoked by a honda lol.

@Highlander1432 Год назад

$10k ?! Buy a Procharger or Whipple kit Spend $1k for shop to install Use the tune included with the kit Put remaining $ into suspension Make 130 whp over stock no problem

@just_a5.7 Год назад

@@Highlander1432 on a 6.4? Lol hell no. A 5.7 yes

@Highlander1432 Год назад

@@just_a5.7 Really ? How much does a 6.4 make with a procharger kit with supplied tune

@ryaltayloe770 2 года назад

Wow

@bradyjanitorialbradyjanito9298 2 года назад

Nicely done!! Where are you located?

@NationalSpeedInc 2 года назад

Thanks for the words! We have locations in Wilmington, NC and Richmond, VA.

@jonathanvelasquez6897 2 года назад

i saw a video that said you need forged heads when adding a better camshaft is this true in this scenario or can you just add another camshaft just like that ???

@NationalSpeedInc 2 года назад

No aftermarket cylinder heads are required for a camshaft upgrade with these engines.

@devonheights3606 2 года назад

This is what I’m trying to accomplish with my grand Cherokee

@NationalSpeedInc 2 года назад

You'll love the performance!

@marvellousmarvin Год назад

Cool

@randallflowers3536 2 года назад

This is pretty legit. What does all of that run price wise?

@NationalSpeedInc 2 года назад

We appreciate the words, Randall! If you could, shoot us an email to sales@nationalspeedinc.com and we'll get you filled in. Thanks!

@williammchardy5157 2 года назад

What’s the cost for all 3 stages and the ported manifold with the 85mm throttle body?

@NationalSpeedInc 2 года назад

Thanks for the question, William! If you could, shoot us an email to sales@nationalspeedinc.com and we'll get you filled in. Thanks!

@johnnywhiteside3440 Год назад

I guess everyone drives with their hood open to gain max airflow?

@james10739 6 месяцев назад

Whats that dip in the original dyno pull it makes me not trust you not addressing it and then stating the power gains right there

@Im-sure 10 месяцев назад

I’m so jealous but I’ve only had my last call for 4 months…

@ITSANGEL. 2 года назад

This is exactly what I was looking for I am currently looking for this set up on my charger . About how much will this set up run me ?

@NationalSpeedInc 2 года назад

Nice! If you could, shoot us an email to sales@nationalspeedinc.com and we'll get you filled in. Thanks!

@dsm4959 2 года назад

Did you need to ReTune the Engine when the Larger Throttle Body was added ? (My Builder/Tuner is not local and out of state)

@turbotommyguns 2 года назад

Normally with every change in air flow, a retune is necessary

@NationalSpeedInc 2 года назад

Yep, as turbotommyguns mentioned, that would require a recalibration.

@calypojr Год назад

The price for all of that isnt worth only 58 hp gained... imo...but man it sounds great

@chuckmolson1603 Месяц назад

50hp missing from factory?

@creamthompson Год назад

How much

@392_leo_4life 2 года назад

Where is this shop I need to do all stage to my challenger scat pack 392 2020

@NationalSpeedInc 2 года назад

We'd be happy to make it happen! Shoot us an email to sales@nationalspeedinc.com. We have locations in Richmond, VA and Wilmington, NC

@JDB5824RG 2 года назад

Can you tell me what stage 3 costs installed complete.. thx

@NationalSpeedInc 2 года назад

We sure can! If you could, shoot us an email to sales@nationalspeedinc.com and we'll get you a quote. Thanks!

@GenderIsBinary80 Год назад

What's causing that dip in power and torque about half way through the run?

@danieljohn4603 Год назад

The intake runners have a valve that switches from short to long at that rpm. It can be tuned out

@itheasianboi5508 Год назад

I know nothing about tuning but what i know is that the car came with 485hp and in the vid I saw was 488hp? Someone pls tell me what I missed oit

@NationalSpeedInc Год назад

Great question. Power from the OEM manufacturer is measured on an engine dyno outside of the car, whereas most performance shops measure power on a chassis dyno. This tells us what the vehicle is making to the ground after turning everything. It is important as things like the transmission, rear end, tires, etc. make big differences in power numbers.

@alpha1towing570 2 года назад

Love it! Whats the price?

@NationalSpeedInc 2 года назад

Hey! The price varies a bit model year to model year. I encourage you to reach out to one of our Performance Consultants for a detailed quote! nationalspeedinc.com/contact/

@danfarge7447 2 года назад

What is the best way to find out a price of the stage three package

@NationalSpeedInc 2 года назад

Hey Dan! It varies depending on your specific vehicle. You can view all of our performance packages on our site here: nationalspeedinc.com/dodge-challenger-mopar-performance-modifications/ You can also fill out our contact form, and a Performance Consultant will reach out to you so you can build a custom quote! nationalspeedinc.com/contact/

@NJ_Scat_Hemi_Orange 2 года назад

Is an oil catch can really necessary? In your video you mention its optional. A lot of youtubers swear it's required.

@NationalSpeedInc 2 года назад

Good question! We view a supporting modification as required if its absence results in loss of core functionality. For example, properly matched valve springs to the camshaft are a required supporting component, as the absence of these would result in serious issues. While an air-oil separator is a highly recommended option, it is not required for core functionality of these packages.

@NJ_Scat_Hemi_Orange 2 года назад

@@NationalSpeedInc okay. Do you think and oil catch can is required for a stock engine bay?

@si-yt4ix 2 года назад

I would like to make my scat faster . What exactly I need to do

@NationalSpeedInc 2 года назад

Hey! Feel free to fill out our form on our website, a Performance Consultant will reach out to you. www.nationalspeedinc.com/contact

@MastaKeahi 2 года назад

Do you sell the stage one without the intake?

@NationalSpeedInc 2 года назад

Thanks for the question! The JLT Performance air-intake system is the main component of the Stage-1 package, but we can certainly do a tune-only with the options.

@ITSANGEL. 2 года назад

Where can I buy the stage 3 kit?

@NationalSpeedInc 2 года назад

Shoot us an email to sales@nationalspeedinc.com and we'll get you filled in! Thanks, Angel.

@NJ_Scat_Hemi_Orange 2 года назад

Has Dodge contacted you for Direct Connection opinions for the 6.4/392? Your stage packs seem reasonable and "safe".

@NationalSpeedInc 2 года назад

Not yet, but that is something we'd love to discuss with them!

@davidaz6392 2 года назад

Price for the stage 3 package 2021 charger scat pack

@NationalSpeedInc 2 года назад

Hey David! Feel free to fill out our form on our website, a Performance Consultant will reach out to you with details on options and pricing: www.nationalspeedinc.com/contact

@americanassassin001 2 года назад

Yeah but I'm 💯 sure you can do better than those numbers NA. Power Nation did a full rebuild.with parts just like you guys did sort of and engine dyno showed 574 NA HP so to figure that in RWHP take away.abou 35 to 40 hp.and those.are gonna relatively be your numbers. Yall need a dyno calibration test done

@NationalSpeedInc 2 года назад

Thank you for your input, however drivetrain loss is typically more than that. We have two identical dynos at our locations and they always read spot on with each other when we transfer vehicles to and from.

@mattycryptonaire 6 месяцев назад

Can I skip stage 1 and go straight into stage 3

@MOPARMUNOZ 5 месяцев назад

Every bump up in stage includes the previous stage. A stage 3 is just the stage 1 and 2 plus the cam package.

@ModernMuscleHead Год назад

I've got a 2013 392 with a 6 speed manual, what can I expect with this package?

@williamrose7184 Год назад

An automatic 8 speed to really show you what that car can do. Because the stick shift just can’t get it done.

@williamrose7818 11 месяцев назад

Wrong. The automatic smokes the manual son. Every time.

@handsomemoayer191 2 года назад

So do you offer this on a charger and what is the cost for stage 1, 2 and 3.

@mattholland5497 2 года назад

8 grand and what's left of your powertrain warranty

@handsomemoayer191 2 года назад

@@mattholland5497 i have a 2021 scat with 10,000 miles rn. But i got the 100,000 mile 6 year warranty

@NationalSpeedInc 2 года назад

We certainly do! If you could, send us an email to sales@nationalspeedinc.com and we'll give you individual quotes for each. Thanks!

@grad0n 2 года назад

What’s with the factory midrange dip?

@jhimmelberger5371 2 года назад

At about 4500-4800 RPM's the intake manifold which has active runners, switches from long runners to short runners. The power dip can be tuned out.

@NationalSpeedInc 2 года назад

Yep, as J Himmelberger mentioned, that's the intake manifold active runners in action.

@ricardomorales6200 2 года назад

How much that package cost the stage 3

@NationalSpeedInc 2 года назад

Thanks for the question, Ricardo! If you could, send us an email to sales@nationalspeedinc.com and we'll get you filled in on cost. Thanks a bunch!

@unclejun4328 2 года назад

I need the number please i have to send my car to get a stage 3 how much by the way?

@NationalSpeedInc 2 года назад

Hey CJ! Feel free to fill out our contact form on our website. A Performance Consultant would be glad to talk to you about options and pricing! www.nationalspeedinc.com/contact

@TruckDrivinMan1971 2 года назад

Where is your shop located?

@NationalSpeedInc 2 года назад

Allen, apologies for the late reply. We have shops in Richmond, VA, and Wilmington, NC with plans to open more soon.

@JBWHITEGT 2 года назад

Only 10 Hp gains with long tubes...I don't think the price for long tube headers is worth 10hp. The stock shorty headers seem pretty good from factory.