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I'd be very curious to hear your thoughts on mo lei tau, a comedic style in Hong Kong--the movie Kung Fu Hustle is a great example. I think the comic timing is perfect, but my friends are divided on it.
I don't know if anyone else is in my same shoes, but I would be happy to donate via Patreon at a $1/month level. I wouldn't need anything in return, just a way to support. These videos are so very great, and I can tell that tons of hours go into them, and so first and foremost: thank you for your incredibly valuable and engaging insight that's helped me hone my writing craft no small amount. $3/month is very reasonable in return, but until my screenplay sells, it is unfortunately beyond my very tight budget.
''Is a great movie if you ignore the first two hours of it'' See, I liked that, it was natural, well timed , appeared orgnaically, was delivered in a deadpan way that fits the narrator's usual tone.
Thor: Love and Thunder is the MCU equivalent of Cars 2 or Planet Sheen. It was Marvel making two rookie mistakes. They gave the director no discipline and made the comic relief the main star. Korg is the textbook example of milking a joke. He immediately overstayed his welcome.
Always love a good vs. bad. One thing I appreciated here is that you mentioned that comic relief doesn't necessarily have to be a joke, it can be a lighthearted moment instead. I never thought of it that way!
Something I really appreciate about this series is the fact that, rather than just telling us what makes a show/movie good or what makes it bad, you also highlight bad elements of good movies/shows and good elements of otherwise not-great ones. I find this really helpful, it's a reminder that a story doesn't have to be PERFECT to be good. It just needs to make the most of what it is. And I love that approach - it makes writing good stories feel like a far more obtainable goal and it gives some much deserved appreciation to scenes/character/etc. that generally get overlooked due to the overall quality of the work they're a part of.
I think the Gordon scenes works because Gordon sometimes talks to himself making quick jokes. Like in Arkham Knight, when Batman disappears and Jim says “every damn time.” I just accepted it as part of his character over the years.
its a great video but yeah I agree the Gordon scene isn't bad. He's a good cop at heart and a family man so I don't think its out of character for him to say something like that outloud. Its also the intro to a fun, action packed scene so it almost works as a good way to shift the tone slightly. But I get Brandon's point as other movies will do the same thing but much worse. It's indicative of a larger problem when it comes to bad writing even if it isn't the best example of it. TDKR example is very valid though. It got a laugh in the theater but yeah Batman shouldn't be saying comedic one liners like that.
A very common rule I hear is that for non-comedy centric movies is that you should NEVER make the lead character of a movie/show the main comic relief at the same time, because you’ll have too many joke moments that get in the way of their serious scenes, hence why most comic relief characters are secondary characters. The major error often manifests itself in sequels/prequels. A few infamous examples of this include Mater taking over as lead character in “Cars 2” and Dr Ian Malcom Taking Over As Lead in “Jurassic Park: The Lost World.” Now if you want a rare good example done right… Saul Goodman in “Better Call Saul.” Because his usual BB-like comedy moments this time are only done when it’s appropriate in each episode, while everything else is focused to his tragedy and character development over the prequel series.
The main character usually sets the tone, so if you make a comic relief main character, you have a comedy whether you want it or not. Unless you're very careful with it.
I am the only person who genuinely likes Cars 2 and Kronk's new grove. I will forever personally think that serious plots with lighthearted protagonists are severely overhated.
Honestly I disagree. Some of my favourite protagonist are goofy af. But that could just be me, If I had to give the best example of a "comic relief protagonist" it would be my pfp aka Monkey D. Luffy.
Good comic relief = Gimli in the LOTR trilogy. Lines such as "don't tell the elf" or "that still only counts as one", blowing on the mist of the Dead, etc etc.
Other than those, Gimli has pretty terrible dumb moments where he comes off as too much of a buffoon. Luckily most of those belong to the extended cuts (eg. the drinking contest, facing the Dunharrow ghosts).
I hate what they did to Gimli with this comic relieve stuff. He's supposed to be a serious warrior on par with everyone else in the fellowship not a goon who chacks cheep jokes.
Terminator 2 knows what is and sticks to it but it also includes comedy and nuanced character moments amid the action. And it doesn’t stop the film cold when it shifts tone.
The worst comic relief, imo, is in the movie Bright. Will Smith's wisecracks fell flat each and every time, were never funny and made his character seem like a hateful bully. You could tell Smith wasn't into his character because his lines were delivered with no heart. This would have been such a good movie if they'd utilized Will Smith properly instead of trying to use him.
Hey thanks for requesting this video! It helped that you mentioned Jar Jar in your request--that gave me something to build around. Anyway, glad you enjoyed it! Best of luck with your writing
This is the second best explanation of comedy I've seen. But nothing tops Sideshow Cecil's audition to be Krusty's sidekick. The pie gag is only funny when the sap's got dignity!
Jack Sparrow can be a good example of good versus bad in both cases in the various points of the Pirates of the Caribbean movies, and also provides a compelling argument why the decision to make an initially comedic support character into a protagonist after the original story has run its course is usually a bad idea. Jack works at the start because outside of being generally roguishly charismatic and having some pointed humor in places, Jack is a good world-weary foil to Will Turner's good-intented yet naive understanding of the pirate world and his own heritage. His physical comedy starts off hilarious but grounded, in that it doesn't go off the rails and keeps to his nature as a trickster trying to staying just one step ahead of defeat. Jack, however, gets increasingly more and more insufferable once Jack waddles into Jar Jar territory with the scale of his antics becoming all the more goofier as the movies proceeds, and his lack of meaningful character development in the latter sequels when he's the protagonist, only makes it apparent that his humor can't carry a movie.
@@LendriMujina That's mostly because he's been labelled as a misogynist and bastard, so thus, everything he does, must inherently be bad. This is not true of course. You can be a total bastard and still be a good writer. But Whedon's best work is a bit back in time imho. Firefly was brilliant.
The soft 4th wall break reminds me of the Doctor Who episode 'The Feast of Steven', which is sadly missing. This is episode 7 in the 12 episode 'Dalek's Master Plan' serial. The broadcast of this episode lined up on Christmas day, so this episode takes a break from the tension that had been building up for the last 6 episodes and goes thematic around Christmas, even unto William Hartnell looking directly into the camera at the very end and saying "Merry Christmas to all the viewers at home".
The best bit of funeral humour that comes to my mind was in Seinfeld when George was at the funeral for his fiancee Susan who died from licking the invitation envelopes with the cheap glue. George, standing next to the casket, demonstrates what kind of character he is by asking out one of Susan's friends.
@@WriterBrandonMcNulty If I were writing him, I'd fix his voice, have his comedy come more from his contrasting values to Qui Gon, and hav3 the suspicious-Ness of him come from an inconsistent competence rather than an overly lacking competence.
When I saw Luke toss the lightsaber in theaters, one guy said, “Ha,” and everyone else was dead silent. We were too busy being gripped by a new sense of dread for the next two and a half hours
One of my favorite soft fourth wall breaks is in The Secret Life of Walter Mitty when [SPOILER] : : : : : Walter finds out where the missing picture is, and for the only time in the movie glances directly at the camera as if to say "You've GOT to be kidding me."
My main rule is that comic relief should not be a character. At most it could be part of a character, but preferably a shared role. And if it's the main character, you've got a comedy.
A tip I once heard for writing comic relief characters is to make it their secondary role. The person who gave me that tip gave Hades in Disney's Hercules as an example; he's the one who cracks the most jokes, but he's the villain _above_ that. Of course, the fact that the entire movie has a more comedic tone than most of Disney's films makes him fit in more there.
Luke tossing away the lightsaber reminds me of a scene in RWBY when Ruby loses her scythe, and when Jaune brings it back to her, she's reluctant to accept it. In a later scene, Yang and the others pick up the weapon that she dropped, try to hand it to her, and she jumps back letting it fall to the ground. The main differences here are 1, it wasn't played off as a joke, and 2, there was a lot of buildup over several episodes of her having PTSD and doubts about her role as a huntress, so the rejection of her weapon didn't come completely out of nowhere.
Loud talking characters who shout every line they speak. Loud talking is among the top ten most annoying sounds. This is why characters like B.E.N. from “Treasure Planet” is so disliked. He is loud in every scene he’s in, and has the problem of coming in when comic relief is not what’s needed. On the other hand, Mushu from “Mulan (1998)” works better. Yes he’s loud, but he was also quiet when the scene requires it. Like when he was comforting Mulan after the army learned she was a woman.
Two other great examples of comic relief: Sohka from Avatar the Last Airbender (the animated series) and Bolin from Legend of Korra. Both characters served as the comic relief; but grew into stronger characters as the shows progressed.
I'd love to see a video on how to use MacGuffins: what makes a good MacGuffin, how do you make it connect with your theme, how to avoid pitfalls. A good example to me is the Holy Grail in Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade. A bad example would be anytime a character is reduced to little more than a MacGuffin. That's how America Chavez came across to me in Multiverse of Madness.
I hate it when comic relief scenes are done in serious moments like in the introduction scene of a serious, menacing villain. A bad example comes from How To Train Your Dragon 2. A little over the mid-point of the movie, we finally meet the main antagonist of the movie, Drago Bludvist. Previously in the movie, they did a lot of build-up for Drago. We get a flashback sequence of his backstory with Stoick - During a gathering of Viking chieftains to discuss the dragon situation, Drago proposed that he alone could control the dragons and keep the people safe if the chieftains followed him as their leader. The Vikings laughed at him and in rage Drago orders armored dragons under his control to burn down the hall. All the chieftains except Stoick die. We also learn about his plan to create a dragon army to conquer the world. So Drago has been setup to be a merciless villain and a threat to dragons and mankind. Now the other dragon riders - Astrid, Fishlegs, the Twins and Snotlout finally find Drago's lair but get caputred and brought to Drago. The initial part of his intro does portray him as a menacing villain with his ominous soundtrack, his physical appearence and how he is able to dominate a Monstrous Nightmare and we also get a lot of serious moments. But unfortunately, the other dragon riders crack some unfunny jokes and they bring down the seriousness of the scene. Now a good example comes from the sequel How To Train Your Dragon 3. The main antagonist is Grimmel the Grisly, a professional dragon hunter with the reputation as the night fury killer. Grimmel is introduced as a serious and threatening villain in his opening scenes and later at around the mid-point of the movie, the riders attack his base but fail and eventually retreat. However, one of the twins, Ruffnut is left behind. Grimmel takes her as prisoner but she becomes a non-stop annoying chatter box much to the frustration of Grimmel. Later Grimmel releases her so that he can follow her to the hideout of the dragon riders. The comic relief scene works because its meant to be a comic scene. We have seen Grimmel being serious before and seeing him getting annoyed and frustrated feels amusing. Only previously we had a tense action scene so it is time for the audience to relax with a good comic scene whereas for Drago's opening scene, it was supposed to be a menacing one without any comedy and also because previously only we have had light hearted moments with Hiccup, his mother and Toothless.
Another good example from a franchise adjacent to the one you’re referencing is that in the second How To Train Your Dragon book (How To Be a Pirate), Alvin the Poor but honest farmer, who is obviously a pirate pretending to be a good guy, starts off as a joke character and even after revealing himself as the villainous Alvin the Treacherous still cracks a joke about how his evil is society’s fault but then he starts to say things like “I’m rotten to the core and I like being rotten. The treasure has got me and I like being got” and manages to be evil as sin. And even though the early sequels also have one or two joke scenes with him, he quickly becomes much more of a serious threat to the point where, by the end, he’s the Voldemort of the How To Train Your Dragon universe and the books do a great job of it
@@matityaloran9157 Okay. I haven't read any of the books. I have watched the Netflix shows and it has the chaacter of Alvin the Treacherous but I kind of skipped some filler episodes and also focused on the plot-driven episodes.
Matrix Reloaded beginning when Neo fights the 3 agents. The movie starts with a scary tone, impending attack, scattered alliance, and even a visit from Mr. Smith. Then the new agents attack, and Neo, in a very robotic, true-to-character way, says, "Hmm, upgrades," making it clear they're no threat to him in a funny way.
The one I always found jarring is in Blood Diamond when Jennifer Connely takes a break and has a good laugh with the African kids doing some kind of sudden out of the blue photoshoot.
A bad example of comic relief is Luffy's Gear 5 transformation in One Piece. At one point in the story, Luffy acquires the powers to basically become a Loony Toon and defeat his enemies with toon logic. This impacts story moments that are supposed to have emotional tension. For example, Dr. Vegapunk (a character that had been hyped up as very important for hundreds of chapters at this point) dies right in front of Luffy. Luffy, in Gear 5, has bulging eyes and gives a loud "EEEEEHHHHHH?" This makes the audience both want to feel bad that Vegapunk is dead, but also laugh because of Luffy's antics. Pretty bad tonal problems.
Extraction 2. Third act. Tyler is escaping with his sister-in-law and young niece. Lots of shooting and fighting. The trio enter an elevator and as they begin the ride down Tyler winks at the little girl to calm her. A light and tender moment of relief that also reveals Tyler's character. One of my favorite scenes in the movie.
Bathos is an important concept, but you get it wrong. Bathos means "descent" in Greek and refers to a shift in tone from the grand or elevated to the mundane or trivial. The unexpected appearance of the mundane in a situation where we have been led to expect something lofty is what creates the comic effect.
The best single moment of comic relief in movie history is in Fellowship of the Ring, at the end of the council, when Elrond has just christened the main characters with his iconic "you shall be.. the Fellowship of the Ring" over Howard's Shore's swelling orchestral music... and then Pippin says "right... where are we going?" I cannot imagine the Jupiter-sized brass balls you would need to put a comedic line right at that moment, knowing that if it didn't land, millions of Tolkien fans would be out for your blood...
Hey, Brandon. I hope you get to see this. Can you make a video about Bad *MANIPULATIVE CHARACTERS* vs Good ones? I don't really understand what differentiates a good manipulative character from a bad one. The most recent example that comes to mind, to me, of a bad manipulative character, would the first Thor movie's Loki. I never understood any of his motivations and goals because they consistently kept changing. I'd love for you to expand on this topic, manipulative characters are fascinating when done right, but I don't know what constitutes a good one.
No way, I was thinking of that idea too. I really want a video like that. For me a bad manipulative villain can be Pitch Black from Rise of Guardians because the manipulations are like the typical "join me proposals" with over the top theatrics. A good example can be Rumpelstiltskin from Shrek Forever After where he targets Shrek's vulnerabilities and manipulates him into a signing the contract or a better example, Lord Shen who target's Po's vulnerabilities and despite being physically weaker than him, he is able to mentally break down Po and that makes him a unique multi-dimensional villain.
I do wonder in hindsight if there was a way to simplify and illustrate The Phantom Menace's worldbuilding. Kinda like how the Good Bad and the Ugly uses the civil war as dynamic backdrop. So instead of Jar Jar comic relief we couldve gotten more natural comic story relevant comic relief.
I thought there would be a mention that cautions against intentionally making annoying characters--like Jar Jar. There's never an upside. If you succeed, then you have an annoying character, and no one likes being annoyed. If you fail, your character will probably still be annoying and your audience will know you also can't write.
The makers of The Last Jedi just never understood that there's a difference between blowing your audience's minds and just straight up trolling the audience.
Upon seeing this more fleshed out explanation of what comic relief can be, a particular example comes to mind. Breaking Bad, as everyone knows, is loaded with comic relief, in all of its forms. I could think of countless examples but the one that popped in my head after thinking about the more subtle side of it, with a strong emphasis on the word "relief", is near the beginning of Ozymandias. I'll keep this somewhat vague and spoiler-free. It's the scene when Walt is on foot rolling the barrel through the desert, and that country song is playing, which culminates with him buying the old truck off of the native man. It's an absurd situation that's grounded in the events that came before it - which were the most cataclysmic of the story - and it adds levity in a dark circumstance, which is a signature of the show, all while not making it laugh-out-loud, over the top, unrealistic, or taking any emotion away from the weight of the episode's opening.
The thing about Jar Jar is that he's acting like a goof on purpose. I'm sad that they abandoned this plot because it would have had a really good payoff. Jar Jar is a force user, a sith, and his "luck" in battle is not luck at all. His promotions aren't meant to make any sense because he's using mind tricks. He's seemingly powerful enough to convince a room full of, what, thousands of senators who never agree on anything, to ALL INSTANTLY agree to abandon democracy. He's purposely trying to appear harmless and goofy. There's a great video on this that I can't link at the moment, but also watch him when he's in the background during Padme's scene where she seemingly doesn't want to go along with Quigon's plan, she says "I don't approve" and Jar Jar is in the background mouthing her words (a mind trick). Count Dookoo(sp) appears out of nowhere specifically because they abandoned the Jar Jar plot due to the backlash.
@@Imperials3nate I mean he's meant to be jarring in more ways than one, so I think so. Though I'm a little biased because I think an evil gungan sith lord would be kinda hot.
This was never a plot, it was fan theory to make jar jar more tolerable for older viewers. Jar jar was meant to be pure comic relief designed to sell merchandise.
I wish they had done that, how freaking awesome would it have been to get through this movie with this obnoxious character only to reveal it was Jar Jar all along!
I think It Chapter Two is a good example of a film filled with BAD comic relief. It's a shame, because it mostly intends to be very serious, scary and emotional, but yet it does humour in the worst way and moments. EDIT: Talking about character's jokes that are only for the audience, this film has a lot of that, but horror moments as well. I mean, horror moments that don't make sense inside the scene, but are only obviously designed for the people watching, feeling unreal.
One of the best weirdly comedic films ever is Withnail & I, which is weird considering how dismal its mood is; but after watching it you just want to keep quoting it, which is usually a sign they got something right.
Love the new video Brandon as always. I think with comedy just like real life has to be natural. My favorite movie of all the Casblanca is filled with humor moments but never does it take away from the tone of political unrest and tension between the characters. Each humor moment is within the character’s personality.
Everyone says Marvel has the worst comedy in modern day. My least favorite moment is in Shang Chi where Shang Chi is discussing his dark and violent past and the flight attendant asks him if wants snacks. If that’s not bad enough, she interrupts him three times with this terrible attempt at humor.
I'll give you an example of Marvel showing discipline and being rewarded. And here's the best part. It's a Sony movie. To be specific: Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse. Kingpin has shot and killed Uncle Aaron. Miles retreats to his dorm room and the rest of the Spider-Gang catch up to comfort and share their losses with him. Peter B Parker and Spider-Noir lost their respective Uncles. Gwen lost her best friend. Peni Parker lost her father. Spider-Ham lost his uncle and then adds "He was electrocuted...and he smelled so good". Don't remember that happening? Because it was in an early draft of the script. The writers found Ham's line hilarious, but agreed it steamrollered the pathos. So they replaced it with the brilliantly poignant line that being a superhero meant you couldn’t always save everyone. It paid off on the long run, because it showed that yes, even the funny talking pig in the Spider-Man costume had a personal tragedy. Sony had more restraint than Disney.
When something that maybe was funny once gets overused and becomes annoying: when in Avengers the Hulk grabs Loki and smashes him on the floor, they reused that over and over until it became very annoying
Jar Jar is the holy fool, jester, more of an archetype than comic relief. He exists to have the serious Jedi exercise tolerance. In my mind he exists to enflesh Qui Gon and Obi-Wan. Btw Star Wars humor is often horrible, Han in the first one: "One thing's for sure, we're all gonna be a lot thinner" groan
One of my favourite comic relief moments happens in Jurassic Park: Ian Malcom walks up to the Triceratops droppings and says "That's a big pile of shit..." Another small comic relief moment from that movie, that I think a lot of people missed, is where Nedry slips and falls down the hillside in the rain and there is a typical cartoon slip-and-fall whistle sound when it happens.
Yeah, if we had gotten that I think everybody would have forgiven him for making him unbelievably irritating in the first movie. It would have retroactively justified all the slapstick nonsense as Jar Jar using dark side powers in plain sight. It would have been a twist worthy of following 'Luke, I am your father.'
I do have a request. I love old movies like from classic and golden age. It would be cool maybe in some of your videos you use them as examples. Be a nice change of pace that’s just me though 🤷🏾♂️
For a bad example of comic relief, there's Martin Short's robot in uh, was it Treasure Planet or Atlantis? Bit of a Jar Jar character, really interrupts the atmosphere
Respectfully, I completely disagree with your Batman begins take. a lot of times when I'm by myself and see a nice car. I'm going to comment to myself about liking the car. If anything, it shows that commissioner Gordon is human like everyone else.
Same here. Or maybe it's because I relate to James Gordon the most in the trilogy. He's battling with the mob, ordinary criminals, and police corruption. And this vigilante shows up on his fancy car. I'd feel the same.
An episode in The Blacklist. Tom’s “brother” is about to be tortured for information. Instead he leaps out a window to his death. James Spader simply said, “Okay, then.”
Lost World: Jurassic Park. Both trailers are dangling over a cliff and Eddie climbs out to go rescue the others. Clock is ticking. Everyone dangling should be terrified but instead they each shout their fast food orders. Totally ruined the moment. Took me out of the story. Ecchh!!
Check out the movie Willow for good comic relief in an otherwise serious & violent movie. "Willow You Idiot!" Is one of my all time favorite lines, and is quoted often in my family.
I like Jak 3. SPOILER: Towards the end, Jak’s dad dies in his arms before he realizes that truth. It’s sad and infuriating when the antagonist Veger laughs at this tragedy. Daxter the comic relief doesn’t say anything until it is appropriate.
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In the otherwise perfect "Breakfast at Tiffany's", Mickey Rooney's "comic relief" is awful even if you discount the blatant racism of his caricature of a Japanese.
I love, love, love Batman's "thinking out loud" moment from The Dark Knight Rises. 😁😁😁😁😁 I acknowledge that the host made excellent points. However, I still love the moment. Batman has been disappearing during conversations since the 90s animated series. Maybe even earlier. Seeing a character turn the table on him, wasn't just comedy for Christopher Nolan's trilogy. Instead, it was comedy for the entire modern mythology of Batman.
Worst comic relief? The latest BBC Dracula, hands down. It has other problems, but the comic reliefs just choke the whole story. It gets in the way of horror, drama, and Dracula comes off as an unthreatening, even harmless, jibber jabber. Best comic reliefs? The original Halloween movie and the scene introducing Popeye Doyle in The French Connection. He looks ridiculous in his Santa Claus suit, then his weird questioning, but it's nevertheless a character defining moment: he does what he needs to get the job done. Oh and I'm not sure if it counts as comic relief, but The Death of Stalin mixes wonderfully tragedy and comedic. Same with A Clockwork Orange. Oh and Amadeus.
I thought Ragnarok was hilarious. Asgard being destroyed and them making a joke about it really nailed the tone of the movie. They already lived with the prophecy that Ragnarok is the end, plus they agreed that Asgard was not a place, but a people…so I didn’t see that part as not fitting the tone of the movie. Just my opinion 😂
Although i don't know comedy but Xavier Renegade Angel has better wordplay than Deadpool because there's a video named "You slumber a cumber" exist and it's Xavier whos facing himself in a battle of wits, the wordplay is almost endless and it's really funny.
I have a theory every Jar Jar Binks defendant on the planet was between the ages of 5 and 13 when Phantom Menace came out, and now the rest of us have to suffer their rose-tinted glasses forever because they're all middle-aged and online now, retconning one of the worst characters in history until the older generations die.
Great video - I would LOVE to hear your take on the first episode (or however many you have/will have seen by the time you decide to make it) I love ABSOLUTELY LOVE to hear your take on the show The Penguin - it is PHENOMENAL. But why??? Why is it so good? Why is the Penguin, this uncouth criminal, so sympathetic? It's SO SO good. Truly hope this comment gets back to you and truly hope you make a video about it, because honestly, it's too good not too, and you're too smart not to - this isnt any kind of goad, but seriously, you're too intelligent of a person, you're too knowledgeable about story structure and what makes stories good not to make a video about it. So looking forward to it!
i dunno abt others but i find the jokes in TDK and TDKR worked for me... also i dun agree with thor ragnorak.. the whole movie's tone is light so i think that comedic moment is on purpose to disrupt the seriousness of the moment where asgard is destroyed... it is also consistent with korg's personality... so i think it works...
