Bad leaders of the Church…

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*Almost all leaders (clergy) in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are unpaid and work normal jobs.*
This episode is TOUGH. First and foremost, we want to emphasize that we abhor inappropriate conduct from ANY leader in the Church, regardless of position in the Church. As Justin says in this episode, if you’ve ever been sexually or physically abused by a leader (or anyone, for that matter), don’t be afraid to speak up! Such leaders should not be in positions of leadership.
While there are extreme cases of misconduct, there are also cases of leaders making comments that are offensive or inappropriate. Such comments may draw us away from the Church and the feelings are REAL! Justin and Taylor share their experiences in being hurt by different comments from Church leaders and what they felt, how they acted, and what it means for them moving forward.
We are so sad when anyone is offended by church leaders, by us, or by anyone in the Church. We hope that such things can be discussed and resolved!
One of our favorite quotes comes from President Uchtdorf, who says, “And, to be perfectly frank, there have been times when members or leaders in the Church have simply made mistakes. There may have been things said or done that were not in harmony with our values, principles, or doctrine. I suppose the Church would be perfect only if it were run by perfect beings. God is perfect, and His doctrine is pure. But He works through us-His imperfect children-and imperfect people make mistakes. In the title page of the Book of Mormon, we read, “And now, if there are faults they are the mistakes of men; wherefore, condemn not the things of God, that ye may be found spotless at the judgment-seat of Christ.” This is the way it has always been and will be until the perfect day when Christ Himself reigns personally upon the earth. It is unfortunate that some have stumbled because of mistakes made by men. But in spite of this, the eternal truth of the restored gospel found in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is not tarnished, diminished, or destroyed.”
What did you learn from the stories that Justin and Taylor shared? Let us know in the comments below!!
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Опубликовано:

3 авг 2020

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Комментарии : 173

@Nofxthepirate 4 года назад

If the stake president was the one who canceled the meeting, why wasn't it his job to inform the mission president? Seems to me like the stake president was the one who dropped the ball. Good job for persevering either way!

@amandadangerfieldpiano 4 года назад

And the misison president said "I could have been with my wife," but couldn't she have come along with him anyway? Since it was cancelled they would have had the two hours of driving to be together.

@JustinWintch 4 года назад

Thank you! haha, I know its no big deal and was so long ago, but its good to feel like it wasn't our fault haha

@juliesteimle3867 4 года назад

On my mission we used to say, "You know the Church is true because if it wasn't the missionaries would have screwed it up."

@thekolobsociety 4 года назад

That’s a variation of a J. Golden Kimball quote.

@mintbrownieangelfish-6114 4 года назад

Hahaha! Good thing to note when I go on my mission

@ThomasJDavis 3 года назад

People can genuinely believe and even convince other people of something that's false.

@christopherrandallnicholson 3 года назад

Look at Thomas completely missing the point of the quote, not to mention its very obvious tongue-in-cheek nature.

@christopherrandallnicholson 3 года назад

Honestly I think the apostles would have beat them to it.

@rh8528 4 года назад

Never judge a church by the people in it

@ddfstar7588 4 года назад

Eh I mean i think exceptions to this. What if 90 percent of the people are crazy and extremist. Or have crazy beliefs.

@scottb4509 4 года назад

@@ddfstar7588 I'd say you should judge an organization by what it believes, comparing its' beliefs to those of Christ, but not judge the organization by the mistakes of the people... especially when those mistakes are not in line with what the organization purports to believe.

@scottb4509 4 года назад

@Soph I would say that we should never judge the validity of the gospel, by the inability of its' followers to follow it properly. Not even the apostles were perfect and yet Christ called them and gave them the keys of Heaven to act in His name. and established His own church through those imperfect people. therefore it is not good to completely separate ourselves from religion because the gospel is personified and comes to life within the context of religious practices. we cannot reject the need and command and example of an established religion and all the necessary authorities granted to the one true religion of Christ, and the practices of fellow shipping and meeting together often to partake of the emblems of the body and blood of our Lord, and all the good that comes from it; we cannot reject those things and still claim to be a good followers of the fullness of the gospel. If Christ disagreed with the formation of a collection of imperfect people meeting together to learn of Him, He wouldn't have created His own religion. there are three levels of belief, an embrace of spirituality, an embrace of covenant making, and an embrace of unity. you just need to take that next step from spirituality to making and keeping covenants with the Lord, in His true and complete religion.

@marcelsandino5483 2 года назад

This is far too soft

@wolfgang7037 4 года назад

Thanks for posting this! I think this is one of the biggest factors in why people leave the church. We put on a face that our church is perfect and true and all this stuff but when real life hits we loose faith and leave. I think separating the gosple which is by god and the church culture which is made by humans is something we as LDS people need to do more.

@GanetUK 4 года назад

Saying you can go to a different ward is ok in Utah but not everywhere, i'm in the UK and we have it easier than a lot of other places but my Branch is still 50 minutes drive away from my house.

@michiganabigail 4 года назад

Yeah, my ward in Michigan was 30 minutes away. But the other ward was 40 minutes away in the opposite direction, so not too much longer! But I was in primary and young women’s when I was there, so I still couldn’t really go to the other ward... It’s much easier in Utah!

@SaintsUnscripted 4 года назад

Mark Cubitt Such a good point! We definitely failed to consider wards in all areas of the world. Thanks for bringing this up.

@rksnote9635 4 года назад

The more you open up the more we trust you. Great job Saints unscripted!

@messymusings1812 4 года назад

Thank you, as always, for your episodes. However at the same time please remember the words from President Nelson in the Women's session of General Conference, October 2019... "It grieves me to think that any of you have felt marginalized or have not been believed by a priesthood leader... I feel deep sorrow that any of you have felt sidelined, disrespected, or misjudged. Such offenses have no place in the kingdom of God." I have felt marginalized, sidelined, and disrespected by a church leader too many times - so simply do what is needed for my own self care (which at this point is to avoid this person, the pandemic has been great for that!). My personal relationship with God and Jesus Christ is the most important priority - and no calling ever lasts forever - eventually this person will be released.

@binmyrtmind 4 года назад

I hope we can all help one another as brothers and sisters in Christ and give each other help. I think we can all relate some experiences and Im glad Im older and moved past getting offended. I'm the first to be right by someones side if needed. If i can help or talk let me help.

@jonimagalhaes2294 4 года назад

I'm so glad for I've had met you guys. Your way to express, Justin, touch deeply in my heart and make me more strong. I fight against depression, and anxiosity, I'm "alone" at the church but, here, in this channel, I could found other people who think like me and make me feel more loved and confortable about my relationship with the gospel. Thank you so much !

@WilliamBrown-ds8nn 4 года назад

I got a question about conversation around 6:42 if a leader does something wrong in the past or continues to do something wrong why does the spirit guide higher leaders to put them in leadership positions if they are unworthy?

@binmyrtmind 4 года назад

Mankind is not perfect, bummer isn't it? I always just tell myself I hope I can be a better person myself and don't worry about minor things. But, if it is serious and you know firsthand of a big problem, and not just someone's dislike of a person, then it is your duty to try and seek help.

@YannSuire 4 года назад

Maybe it is to perfect them ... or perfect people around them ?

@mintbrownieangelfish-6114 4 года назад

I think God doesn't have every little thing planned out. If a person is called to a position, they can: A, make the most of it and try their hardest to be what is required of the position; B, not take it seriously; or C, do anything in between. That's up to the person. If they commit sin against a member under their care, they will be punished for it in the afterlife, and most likely released if the stake president learns of it. God is perfect and gives people positions that will help them grow if they try to do them well, but some people don't fully take him up on that opportunity.

@anthonyrippa686 3 года назад

That's the big misnomer. That every decision at every level is based on revelation. It's not. God rarely intervenes in human affairs, including the running and management of the church. He leaves it to fallible people to get on with, based on reason, inspiration maybe, what they think might work.

@binmyrtmind 3 года назад

anthony rippa yes and its such a ridiculous thing to think God is going to intervene in daily decisions etc. Agency is just that......choosing for yourselves and acting upon your choices even when we may want otherwise.

@user-gs7lv2ng1m 4 года назад

I’m gay and anytime I hear the church talk about their “acceptance” when they really don’t it makes me sad. It shows me that church leaders just don’t understand. It’s not fair to keep some church standards the same and modify others.

@jordanhenry9501 4 года назад

My heart hurts for you. You truly are loved and God made you perfectly. It is hard to understand why some things can change and others don’t. I know it seems so cliche, but I would encourage you to pray consistently about this and talk with a trusted church official about your frustration. Don’t hold in your frustration because that just gives satan a foothold and opportunity to attack you.

@seans5289 4 года назад

Any group that makes you feel unwanted should be replaced. Perhaps, after the pandemic cools down, you could benefit from some secular groups-LBGT alliances especially.

@Judy-es3ih 4 года назад

Find people that are accepting...wheather in the church or out. Thats what I decided to do. There are 2 great commandments from Lord. 1. Love God. 2nd love other AS yourself...which is equality. Jesus taught equality all the time. Its hard to know there are people that accept, but there are. Break free from internalized homophobia.

@jimmybarr8023 3 года назад

I support you and jesus loves no matter what.

@seans5289 3 года назад

Jimmy Barr: If the scriptures denounce homosexuality, and you don’t, is one or the other wrong?

@nostoppingit7827 3 года назад

Your mom is a hero! Thank goodness for people like her. So glad she was strong enough to stand her ground and do the right thing despite the cost, what a blessing she must have been to that girl.

@KevlarX2 4 года назад

What I have seen over the years with regard to leaders and members is the most bad blood seems to occur over money. I don't know how many times I've seen people leave the church because they wanted the bishop to bail them out of financial problems, and the bishop gave them other options. They seem to think that the church should always bail them out, and most of the time these are exactly the people who never pay tithing, or do service work.

@michiganabigail 4 года назад

7_4_ Double Down are you confessing to stealing money?

@anichols2760 3 года назад

Great vid. Hey, bad experiences with church leaders happen. I had a bad experience with a young bishop. The guy did not impress me with his self righteousness. But I tried to love and respect him. In one setting I related to the bishop that I had a traumatic experience being falsely accused in my youth of stealing $100 from another boy at school. Lets come back to that in a minute. Now, we had a neighbor who was receiving hurtful notes on his door. Our bishop stood up in church and spoke about it. I could tell the bishop was upset about this. Weeks or months later the bishop sent out members of the bishopric to my home to ask if I had left notes on the neighbors door. So clearly the bishop was investigating to try and resolve the issue with the neighbor. I was astonished that the bishop didn't have faith in me and questioned my integrity. A few weeks or month later I was standing next to the bishop and told him how I felt bad for this neighbor and the bishop responded in an accusatory tone asking me "why? Did you do it?" I responded that I did not do it and that I would never do that and I was deeply hurt by the accusation and without words that the bishop forgot or didn't care that I had trauma about being falsely accused. I have since witnessed weaknesses in other leaders but my testimony is based on the spiritual confirmations I had and not on whether or not my leaders are infallible. They aren't. They are human. They can say petty things, manipulate others, judge others, etc. They can even commit serious sin. But the Lord expects us to be one. And if we aren't one we are not his. So, we can definitely support our leaders. It can be hard sometimes.

@rachelrasmussen1101 3 года назад

Looking back at historical leadership (like Joseph Smith) is so complicated. The Brett Kavanagh confirmation in 2017 was hugely eye opening to me, and a great way to show my kids the problems with trying to extract fact from the testimonies against Joseph Smith. On one hand, for anyone watching Kavanagh story unfold, there was massive and obvious problems with the story, with the motive, with the timing, and the dozen more exaggerated and obviously unreliable testimonials that came as copycats. Yet, the last three years show a media intent on the narrative that a sexist 2017 government put a rapist on the Supreme Court. We have had almost two centuries of narratives piling up from people "investigating" Joseph Smith. If I hadn't lived through the Kavanagh hearing myself, and only had the post-Kavanaugh narrative to read, I would be really confused and, if I was fair, would be prone to assuming Kavanagh was probably a little innocent and a little guilty- just because where there is this much smoke, there must be at least a little fire. But watching the Kavanagh stuff in real time, I now know why Joseph Smith had followers perfectly confident in his innocence. Doesn't mean he's perfect. Kavanagh admitted to being a problematic drinker. Joseph Smith admitted a lot of things too. But I know what a smear campaign looks like. I know what an agenda looks like. And I think it's safe to believe Joseph Smith was a good leader.

@TheLastDispensation 4 года назад

@Justin . . Thank you for saying that we don't need to base our complete happiness in faulty human leaders . . Our Faith is in Jesus Christ and we will be blessed when we are obedient to our Church leaders even when they are wrong . . That doesn't mean they are allowed to be evil to us though . .

@andreafaldon5026 4 года назад

I was told one time that when the Bishop calls I needed to answer my phone on the first ring. The crazy part is the Bishop wasn't the one that told me. It soured me toward the ward because I wasn't there long because I was moved from a ward I loved because the church moved the boundary lines.

@michiganabigail 4 года назад

If that’s a requirement, I don’t sustain anyone, I guess!

@andreafaldon5026 4 года назад

@@michiganabigail it's not a requirement it was someone just being high handed. I talked to the Bishop about it and he wanted to know so he could correct the situation but I decided to let it go.

@michiganabigail 4 года назад

@@andreafaldon5026 Wow, sorry about that! I don't like when people do stuff like that!

@ThomasJDavis 3 года назад

So basically, god puts these people in positions of authority in the church just so you can have a traumatic experience and rely on him for healing. K.

@universalATnT 4 года назад

*Potential trigger warning* I feel like the two of you genuinely believe in the good of the church and your message, but as someone who was raped by a church member on a mission trip and shunned/excommunicated by their whole congregation while their assailant was told that it "wasn't their fault, women are temptres" , I just can't get behind this. Hope your guy's church someday reflects the idealistic nature that we all wish it did.

@dbefishing2679 4 года назад

Did you get papers to transfer to a different ward, or seek higher priesthood holders like the stake president ?

@universalATnT 4 года назад

@@dbefishing2679 being young, I only confessed to my bishop as well as branch president later on. I did not receive transfer papers (not that I wanted to, given everything and how I had been treated), but thanks for your concern?

@zacklockhartmusic1832 4 года назад

That is really super terrible and I'm sorry about that. I've had a situation similar to that (although not on the same scale) and I know how hard it can be to feel shunned or untrusted... anyway hope you're doing ok now and just remember that God was never the one who shunned you, that was the actions of imperfect men and women. I know that's cliche, but really God does still love you.

@seans5289 4 года назад

It’s got to be hard to air something like this out. I’m glad you are persevering. There are secular support groups out there, if you need them.

@ddfstar7588 4 года назад

@@universalATnT did you report this to the police as well?

@TheLastDispensation 4 года назад

This is why our Prophet today is telling us that the only way we will be able to survive the last days is by staying in tune with the Holy Ghost . . and how do we do that? By daily praying to our Heavenly Father and reading the scriptures (our Standard Works) mainly the Book of Mormon . . also attending the Temple when it's open . .

@seans5289 4 года назад

The Last Dispensation: when are “the last days?”

@EMRAE_8 4 года назад

@@seans5289 Now. We are in the 7th seal now.

@seans5289 4 года назад

M Curley: So, do you expect the end of humanity this month? This year?

@EMRAE_8 4 года назад

@@seans5289 Nope. We're heading towards the millenium and humanity will still be here.

@seans5289 4 года назад

M Curley: Then what does it mean to “survive the last days?”

@carinawoodmansee9699 4 года назад

We have to remember the church is run by imperfect humans, not God's. Our local leaders are doing a service, spending time away from family and fun to plan lessons and attend meetings all without pay. Now of course we're going to run into a few bad Apples when you're a ward family of few hundred which is pretty much how it is in our own families. Healthy boundaries are very important as well as keeping unrealistic expectations in check. 👍😊

@GrandpappyJim 3 года назад

Great video. I was just released as bishop and really understand the things you are describing. Though I knew the power of the mantle I had, I also knew I was human and like every other human, i was always only a step away from falling. With the mantle came more pressure from satan. No matter who we are we need daily prayer and scripture to stop slipping on the slippery slope. That rod of iron is there for a reason. At one time I served in the stake mission presidency and was released but never told. Setting up for a missionary meeting in front of the whole group ready to deliver the agenda and the new president come in and informed me was a real blow. I put my stuff back in the box and walked out and sat in the foyer and allowed myself a 5 minute pity party. You're right, this is the Lords church and not a stake presidents. That can be hard to digest for sure, but I'd hate for the Lord to see me chicken out.

@ernestmarcucella6918 4 года назад

I have been taking lessons from Sister Missionaries and Sunday Jess answered it. I was being taught the Book of Mormon and there was the 2 Sisters and an other person that had to come with the Sisters. I was told so there was no sexual situation was going on. I said that is crazy when I am learning about God and Jesus. I figured that doing something wrong why learning about God and Jesus that God would strike the person unfit for the Church of Jesus Christ. Thank you for the video.

@ernestmarcucella6918 4 года назад

Didn't Joseph Smith life have him marrying women who was 14 16 years of age.? So if Joseph Smith did that how can he be put on a pedestal.??

@michiganabigail 4 года назад

Ernest Marcucella I’m not going to teach some stranger about Jesus Christ effectively if I’m worried about whether or not he’s going to attack me. The other person would allow me to relax a little more. Even people who seem great can be really scary.

@_My_YouTube 4 года назад

@Ernest It's just general policy for all female missionaries not to be with a male alone in their house. Same for male missionaries teaching a single female. Other rules as a missionary include not holding a child on your lap or being separated from your companion (except in obvious cases like the bathroom). In addition to these rules helping to promote safety overall, unfortunately there are many who are all too eager to sue the Church in hopes to get a payout. These rules are in place to protect the individual, the missionaries, and the church from such instances.

@_My_YouTube 4 года назад

@@ernestmarcucella6918 There's a lot of nuance to that question, which I won't be able to adequately answer in this reply. I believe this channel actually addressed those concerns in a few of their past videos about polygamy. But the simple answer (at least to the age concern) is that 200 years ago, it was different times. Although less common, it was not unheard of for girls that age to get married.

@ernestmarcucella6918 4 года назад

@@_My_RU-vid I had lessons from 2 Sister Missionaries not 1.

@kelseyolsen6310 4 года назад

Thank you for this! I seriously needed to hear some things in this video. The biggest thing that's helped me threw similar situations is the scripture Jeremiah 17:5 Thus saith the Lord; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the Lord.

@thelatterdayarbiter 4 года назад

You don’t have to rely on people for your testimony in Christ. I would know because I’m a disabled outcast. It’s quite lonely

@michiganabigail 4 года назад

I feel much the same sometimes! I fell off a cliff and although I (fortunately) haven’t seen any negative problems with my ability to think, I have a limp and my hands don’t work very well. It’s hard, and I do feel like an outcast a lot, but I can still do so much. Let me know if you ever need to talk to someone! I’d like to talk to you again if you ever need it!

@JoshuaCairns 4 года назад

I don't want to dismiss serious things people went or are going through, but I've always looked at like I was a victim but now I'm a survivor and I can help other people survive and even help some avoid what I went through. When I was a kid divorce was still largely looked down on among all Christian communities, and my Mom was divorced with four kids and she wasn't "at-fault" in the ordeal. Leaders in the LDS community as well as other religious groups went to great extent to get rid of us and abused positions of authority (political, legal, educational, and enforcement) to a massive extent to go after my whole family. I didn't have any good opinions about any kind of Christian until I was an adult trying to find meaning in life and studying philosophy and religion. I was able to go on a mission for the LDS church and I saw a lot of missionaries that were either ignorant of the abuses around them in the church or they were just accepting of them as normal so they didn't speak up. I wouldn't stand for it and I put my foot down every time I saw it (racism, abuse of position for personal gain, etc, etc), sometimes I approached it more gently but oftentimes I wasn't afforded that option, which often meant shakeups in Ward leadership. I wasn't popular when I went into new areas, among the ward members and the missionaries - to say the least, but it needed to happen and I was willing to do it and was asked to do it by my mission president since I didn't back down. After my mission, I had an assignment to work with stake presidents, bishops, and branch presidents to setup singles wards and programs for the young single adults (YSA) because

@veronicajordan8282 4 года назад

All leaders are just people, even they are in those callings to learn. They are not above us. At any time they can be released and be called into nursery. Just as one of the Stake Presidents here in Western Australia was, along with his wife.

@warrensmith2902 3 года назад

Love the video. My mission was not the best two years of my life. It was hard, very hard, and I learned a lot of valuable lessons that have supported me well all of my life. In my mission I was known as a lazy Elder. By the end, I had one of the best records that no one knew about until I left. It taught me to obey my leaders, and trust in the Lord for his guidance, after all it was his church. And He approved my service. A few years ago my wife and I had the pleasure of serving with a Ordinance Worker who was attracted to men. He was a wonderful individual and we enjoyed serving with him and having breaks with him. Keep you eye on the prize folks, it's the Lord's Church and don't let anyone pry your fingers off that truth, no matter how hard they try to push your buttons.

@wwrk25 4 года назад

As my Branch Presidents 2ed Counselor... There were many Sundays that I wouldn't take Sacrament due to the president being a Jerk to me about my weight in the settings of Branch Counseling meeting earlier that morning.

@seans5289 4 года назад

What is the purpose of stake presidents praying for divine inspiration in choosing a bishop, if that bishop ends up being a child molester? What other reasons might cause god to dissuade then from choosing a possible leader?

@wwrk25 4 года назад

Great Question. Harder to answer in this format. I think the answer to the ,"Why questions ", have a lot to do with free agency with positive and also negative consequences that comes to be by using free agency. I have faith that we may gain a perfect understanding of how our human shortcomings impacted each other on a personal and eternal level and then we can know what it was like to be in the shoes of another when we feel the impact we made on the others life and eternity.

@KevlarX2 4 года назад

Christ chose Judas Iscariot as an Apostle knowing he would one day betray him. Jonah disobeyed the Lord and tried to run from his calling. Job a very righteous man had to suffer a lot. Even faithful members cannot control circumstances or what path those called may choose with their free agency.

@binmyrtmind 4 года назад

I wish people would also remember its not just the LDS church that bad events can take place. There are problems everywhere yet I never hear the news say "an Evangelist or Catholic etc. pastor did .........", but if its a Mormon you hear "a Mormon did.....".

@KevlarX2 4 года назад

@@binmyrtmind I hear a lot of stuff where I am about mostly Baptists, and some other Protestant faiths. There has been a number of youth pastors caught doing inappropriate things with kids. Abuse at church daycares. There's been some stealing, using the money to go to gambling trips to Mississippi casinos, that sort of thing. Of course you do hear about Catholic priests every now and then. I'm not saying there is anything systemic about any faith, just that it can happen anywhere; and I would point out it seems to happen more with non faith organizations than faith based ones.

@_My_YouTube 4 года назад

@@KevlarX2 Same. I have a southern baptist friend (married with kids) who was unfortunately groomed and taken advantage of by her baptist minister. It has taken her years of counseling to come to terms with what happened. Sadly, predators lurk in every corner of society.

@marthagodivala6726 4 года назад

that mission president sucked! from the story it didn't even sound like your fault at all

@JustinWintch 4 года назад

Thanks! He was awesome in so many ways, but that was the worst haha

@vitoriaoliveira5452 4 года назад

I had really difficults problems with my first young women president because she invented so much about me, was hard but now I totally understand why this things happen. If you are struggling because of a leader, remember that God only have imperfect people to do his work.

@ivancruz8981 4 года назад

Always enjoy watching your videos

@lilliec6083 4 года назад

Side note but I absolutely adore the basquiat shirt:)

@coolblubird 4 года назад

Thanks for this! This was one i really needed! (Also read the description, its just as good as the video!)

@wendyfoster5579 Год назад

Many of the detractors of the church like to say well if someone is in a position of leadership and they have or will do something wrong, then their leaders aren’t inspired. Well Christ knew that Judas would betray him but the laws of justice and mercy gave him that opportunity and he will face the consequences. As unfortunate as these situations are, they remind us we are all human and to focus on the Lord.

@UVJ_Scott 3 года назад

Most callings are actually a call to repentance, that process can take longer for some than for others.

@rh8528 4 года назад

So...what did j smith do........

@scottb4509 4 года назад

He mishandled funds, and lost money that the church members donated in an attempt to get land for the church. In his confusion about how to practice polygamy he made mistakes in doing it properly and the angel had to correct him. He agreed to let Martin Harris take the 116 pages of the manuscript of the Book of Mormon against the council of God, which resulted in them losing or someone stealing those pages. He had a bit of a temper and lost his ability to translate and feel the spirit from time to time. Etc.

@personofinterest8731 4 года назад

Amongst many other things, he pretended he knew how to translate the Egyptian funerary papers that were found on the mummies he bought. He and his scribes cut and pasted some of it, fiddled, changed, lied, plagiarized and made up names for the Book of Abraham. Oh my goodness, he wasn't a prophet but he sure knew how to scam. I was so disappointed to discover what he did behind his wife's back, I just had to leave. But he was a very interesting man!

@savannawoods4376 4 года назад

actually general authorities are paid. they get 80k-140k a year do your research before spreading info

@scottb4509 4 года назад

you are confusing getting a salary with getting their expenses paid for them. don't forget that most of the general authorities were well off before taking that position, and their retirements pay for much of their personal expenses. the church simply covers all their church related expenses. that's it.

@DannyAGray 4 года назад

You're right that general authorities receive a salary. Another point about their previous careers is that they probably would have been paid much more just relying on those careers. To many of not most of them, the switch can be a significant pay cut.

@coolbeans8878 4 года назад

Wait, where is this said?? I'd like to look into this

@DannyAGray 4 года назад

@@coolbeans8878 it was information leaked a couple years ago, and partially confirmed by the church. But it's not a bad thing as some might suggest.

@scottb4509 4 года назад

@@coolbeans8878 Church spokesman Eric Hawkins said "General authorities leave their careers when they are called into full-time church service. When they do so, they focus all of their time on serving the church and are given a living allowance. The living allowance is uniform for all general authorities [including First Presidency, Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, First and Second Quorums of the Seventy and Presiding Bishopric]." Some decline receiving this living allowance due to self made earning and retirement they receive from carears they eventually give up when called to serve in the church full time. Having your expenses paid for and your needs met so you can continue to serve the Lord is not the same thing as getting a salary.

@debfryer2437 3 года назад

Life is hard enough without those who are supposed to be on the same side being mean to you. Christ said we are to be one. The reason people criticize, hurt or abuse is because they have not accessed Heavenly Father’s perfect love for them personally. We can only live lovingly when we feel loved by God himself. Feeling loved by our Father helps us love others and be accepting of ourselves. So many people lack self worth due to not feeling closely connected to God in a very real way. We cannot put anyone on a pedestal. Only God is supposed to be the object of our worship. To do otherwise is trusting in the arm of flesh. Our daily doings must be for God and not for man; thus we cannot depend on the approval of others. If people don’t like us, it is because they don’t know who we are, they don’t know who they are and ultimately they don’t know God. If people truly know Him and feel His love, then all judging and criticism ceases. If someone disapproves of you or dislikes you, that has nothing to do with you. It has to do with what they are running through their minds about you and their limited ability to love. Let us remember that only those filled with that perfect love - charity - will live with our Father in the celestial kingdom. Thankfully we have earth life, the spirit world after death and the millennium to get it right. However the more able we are to love while still in mortality, the better off we’ll be. This life is the time to prepare to meet God.

@lindagracecox4265 4 года назад

I love your channel!!! As a convert it’s awesome!!! This time I think you got it wrong. I mean the abisive stuff was correct but when you’re offended, the answer is not to change wards. God gave us wards just like families, to forgive and love ourselves and each other.

@zionweaver 4 года назад

This is a fantastic and important conversation!!

@josephyork4175 3 года назад

When being told by the seminary president that I was not to be inside the stake building when my daughter was in seminary, I didn't know of what I was accused. Some knew but I was told to let it go. I was kept in the dark for about two years as things got worse. Our family went inactive to protect ourselves. Every visit seemed be a probe but not an invitation to return. We had hoped to return but a year later I had completed my research into the church. We can never return finally knowing why we were pushed out. Our family has nothing but utter contempt for the church.

@joshcornia1708 3 года назад

I'm sorry that you went through that traumatic experience. Just wanted to send some love your way.

@Constantin9va 4 года назад

What an amazing mom! ❤️😭

@nathansummers7059 3 года назад

Thank you for the video. I needed to hear this

@heaththompson3834 4 года назад

People need to understand that the people in the church are not perfect regardless of their title. Ya gotta roll with it. It will pass

@universalATnT 4 года назад

"Ya gotta roll with it" is a pretty difficult pill to swallow for abuse survivors and many others hurt by this kind of behavior in the church

@_My_YouTube 4 года назад

@@universalATnT I highly doubt Heath was referring to the extreme cases of abuse you speak of.

@universalATnT 4 года назад

@@_My_RU-vid I certainly understand where you're coming from and that this may not be either of you guys' experience given the circumstance, but I still find it to be incredibly important when discussing videos and/or opinions related to church misconduct. Also, I'm curious as to what your definition of extreme is?

@_My_YouTube 4 года назад

@@universalATnT No worries. By extreme, I am referring to what the hosts talked about as being extreme - times when it's necessary to involve law enforcement or reach out to the proper authorities.

@heaththompson3834 4 года назад

Ok I think we're all on the same page. But to be clear. There is a huge difference between being a jerk and being abusive.