Yep. Hey, on another note; sorry if that's random; but i do a lil charity-project that uses up time but no money. It kinda converts time (we're talking about minutes, not hours) into 'good stuff', so to say. Interested in hearing more and deciding then? Of course, if i ever ask you for money and/or personal info, you should block me the very same Nanosecond. Ok?
@@proculusjulius7035 No Charity-Group affiliated; just a Project to help. Its not big, not supported by rich or powerful, nah, its none of that, it's just a 'Try to Help' of some random people i gathered.
My little sister died when I was 14 from a genetic disease and I was SO sick of everyone telling me it was in gods plan and I just had to trust him. She died 6 days after her 10th birthday, how is a child suffering before death in gods plan? It’s what eventually lead me to start questioning god in the first place because I was so angry at these people for telling me my little sisters traumatic death was needed for gods plan. Ugh
I feel your pain and it sucks. My little brother died and everytime I hear "everything happens for a reason" or other similar things along those lines I want to hit my head against a wall. The suffering that goes on in this world cant be justified with free will or gods plan. Eventually I too stopped believing in God and now I'd call myself an atheist
I'm sorry that happened to you, that's such a hard time in life to lose someone close to you. My brother passed at the age of 8 when I was 9 from complications from spina bifida. He was my half brother that was had out of wedlock because my dad cheated on my mom when she was heavily pregnant with me. He abandoned me when I was 2 and fawned over my brother. When my brother died, I didn't just lose a sibling, I lost my dad completely because I just stopped existing entirely. On top of it all, I had an abusive stepdad - it was really hard to reconcile a plan while I felt responsible for the people I cared for in my life getting taken away. Felt pretty worthless and like any higher power hated me. I hope time has helped ease your pain of loss, it's certainly been a struggle for me.
@Gek ⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻ i am utterly horrified by the knowlage that there are people in this universe with your worldview. the fact that you can so nonshalantly say "He created you. He can do anything he wants to you." is just fucking disqusting.
I had a hysterectomy at 14 which if I didn't have it when I did I would have died (I'm 21 now) but my Christian grandmother told me that it wasnt gods plan for me to have kids.. ok so god was just sitting bored one day and took a look at me and was like "well I need to see some action" and put me through pain for months before the doctors gave me an emergency hysterectomy? So.. god decided that I either die or get infertility... how so sweet of him 🙃
15:08 "God is letting you get beaten down so hard that you become broken and desperate so you will turn to him." How do these people not hear themselves!?
I remember when someone from my school committed suicide because of the stress in her life. The whole school was put on pause the day after she did it. I didn’t have a connection to her, but I felt a sadness when she was gone. No one at school said anything bad. We were all just in silence and we were there for each other. Years later my mom brought her death up and said she’s going to hell because she committed suicide. I lost it at that point. I told her stop because it was inappropriate. To this day the thing she said about the student who committed suicide just makes me angry whenever it pops up in my head and it pushed me further from Christianity.
"They always mean beautiful things like hummingbirds. I always reply by saying that I think of a little child in east Africa with a worm burrowing through his eyeball. The worm cannot live in any other way, except by burrowing through eyeballs. I find that hard to reconcile with the notion of a divine and benevolent creator." - Sir David Attenborough
@@jospinner1183 there's worse parasites still Ones meters long you have to slowly wind out the body and pray (pun intended) that it doesn't snap while you're doing that
Recently I've started trying to view Christianity as mythology, like Greek and Roman mythology; stories that were told to try to explain why things are the way that they are. The problem of evil fits into this thinking the easiest for me, like somebody couldn't rationalize why bad things happen, so they decided to make a story about how evil came into the world so that they could somewhat process an unanswerable question. This way of thinking doesn't explain everything for me, but it gives me a little bit of peace at night.
I’ve been thinking lately that most of these explanations maybe would’ve been much more convincing in the time that Christianity came around mostly because of how much shittier (and shorter) life was for most people back then and how extremely limited the knowledge about the world was compared to today. Like, if I was an illiterate peasant who lived 1000 years ago and heard these arguments (including the whole Adam and Eve stuff, how one must interpret Genesis is what broke my faith) maybe I’d have found them convincing on why there was so much bad stuff in the world. And same with hell as I suspect, like many others, that it originally came to be because of how little justice there was back then and how much more unfair things seemed because if your evil rich neighbor wasn’t punished in this life (while you suffered all the time for being good) then surely he would be in the next and probably it wasn’t until later that the idea started being used to keep people in line like it’s done in so many churches nowadays.
If we are going to talk about tales. My favorite Christian biblical story was the one with Peter and Jesus on the ocean. I saw the paintings first before I read the story, it’s very inspiring. And it has my favorite element which is water and friendship.
I always hated this concept, because I’ve been through trauma no one should go through. And my mom, a christian, says I went through it to help others going through the same. But then why are they going through it. We can all turn it into a good way to help others, but it doesn’t mean that anyone going through such a horrid thing is good. Makes my trauma feel like a joke to these people.
I find that there are a LOT of people who go through long periods of real trauma and pain. Yet this jesus has a single day of abuse and torture, dies and that is enough for god to "forgive sin" and "let the fairy tale followers" go to some imaginary place ? Seriously ? At least people encountering 10/10 pain with bone cancer for months while suffering chemo on top of that, should just get a "get out of hell" card just before they die. But no, the reality is they will just die and the suffering is just as random as the sh@t for everyone else.
I admit that was my mentality when I was buried in cognitive dissonance but as a Catholic another answer to that that I was given is that I should offer my sufferings so that God can release the souls of purgatory (which is basically almost the same as hell but it's not eternal). And that's why some people say the Catholic Church is a masochism club.
My mom said a similar thing to me. She meant well; I think in my mom's case, it was a narrative that helped her in a previous traumatic experience, so she thought it might help me too. But I was just like, what empty words. I don't want to suffer, and I don't want other people to suffer, either. To say the point of suffering is to help others in their suffering is actually an incredibly depressing outlook to me!
The Church of the Algorithm gives this video its blessing, and must it stay clear of the blasphemers from The First Algorithmic Temple (and the many people impersonating their members).
"God allowed this bad thing to happen so that you could grow as a person." I didn't need to grow. I needed to live. And that event made me lose interest in existing. Character development is only an excuse for artists and writers, not dietys.
Development isn't linear, if a god like that did exist and intended my life to become hell then he better expect the erosion of my will to live as well as my hatred towards him. If that god existed I would find no greater enemy than him.
It does help to see that even the worst tragedies can be overcome, and real healing can take place. My mom died in her early 50's and my dad was devastated as you might imagine. But even that didn't destroy him forever. He took care of my mom's cats for over a decade after her passing, and those cats LOVED him because he took such good care of them even though he's not a cat person. She would have been so happy at the good job he did because she loved those cats. Now he's in his 70's and I've been going to church with him for a little while. I see how much he still enjoys his life even though it didn't go quite the way he planned. I'm so glad he can still be happy and watch the Three Stooges and Gunsmoke, and enjoy his retirement, and eat gumbo, and play with his grandkids, instead of just staying depressed forever and ever. My mom wouldn't have wanted him to stay depressed.
Grow as a person in preparation for what? Why do people NEED to suffer horrific natural diseases and die? Why do they have to have their cells mutated, and those mutated cells replicate until they start causing the rest of the body to malfunction? What are those people being prepared for? Or are they just being disposed of? "Sorry, Gracie, but God only planned for you to be alive for 8 years. Your parents will still be here, though! And grieving you for the remaining 40 years of their existences."
I literally remember the pastor of my church when I was a kid, saying if a baby cries and doesn’t need anything (because you just magically know if the baby needs anything) then the baby is lying and you should flick it…. Yeah…. Even as an 8 year old I saw a HUGE problem with that
Babies, and even kids, cry because they need something. Even if it’s “just” affection, they need that just as much as food or being clean. Once kids have words, they can learn to identify wants and needs, but until they have that voice, all crying is valid and for a good reason.
Isn’t it funny how when bad things happen Christians are like, “trust god bro this is for good” then when things are good they’re like “be careful not to get too comfy cuz the devil is gonna pull you away from god”
I had a hysterectomy at 14 which if I didn't have it when I did I would have died (I'm 21 now) but my Christian grandmother told me that it wasnt gods plan for me to have kids.. ok so god was just sitting bored one day and took a look at me and was like "well I need to see some action" and put me through pain for months before the doctors gave me an emergency hysterectomy? So.. god decided that I either die or get infertility... how so sweet of him 🙃
This is something that change my whole mindset. When my nephew was born, I thought “this isn’t even my own child but I would do anything to protect them, so why wouldn’t God?” Why am I more ethical than God? Because he isn’t there
I think it says a lot about PragerU breed of conservatives. They believe babies expecting from their parents having their basic needs fulfiled is "narcissistic" for the same reasons why the poor asking for basic housing, healthcare and enough food to live is "lazy" Within conservative mindset if you lose at the capitalism game it's because you're lazy, not unlucky
Right. Imagine these people saying a puppy is sinful bc it wants its mom's milk, etc. They'd never say that. But human babies needing food, attention, etc, with no way to "use their words", is evidence of sin or greed?
So God gives an abuser the freedom to abuse but doesn't give an abuse victing the freedom to not be abused? So a bad person can decide to do evil. Ok. How does God stopping them from doing it robs the person from the free will? Especially when their victim CHOOSES to pray to God for protection. The bad person already made the decision and, if they're Christians, they know they'll probably go to hell for it. God's intervention changes nothing in this aera Or not. The abuser doesn't have to go to hell anyway. They can always beg for forgivness after causing harm. Beg God, not their victim of course That's a stupid system if you ask me
This one hits pretty close to home for me. O was kidnapped by my father when i was 4 and abused severely by his wife until i was 10. I was raised christian as a baby and I prayed and prayed for the first 5 years that i would be released from that situation or at least my family members might visit and grant me a slight respite from her wrath. I remember one time specifically I 'flipped god off' while I was crying in my room because the rain kept my grandma from driving down to visit. When I eventually was returned to my mom, I was returned to a christian home that went to church weekly and mentioned god casually as if he was a close family friend. But my faith was shaken. I knew deep down that no benevolent god would put me through what I went through, and that he was either false or evil. I tried for years after to feel the faith. Finally at 15 I had had enough and called it quits, and my grandma recommended that i read the book of Job. So I did, and boy was i pissed. I cant really go on about it because im so mad thinking about it again, but if you read all this, thanks for your time and you are wonderful.
@basebutter - I was also taken from my mother at 5 yrs old and lived with my grandparents until 9.5 then my father and his abusive wife until I was 18 and she orchestrated my father to kick me out. The entire time she psychologically, emotionally and physically abused me and also came between me and my father so he verbally abused me after her toxic influence and control on him took hold. Now I’m in my 30s trying to deconstruct and overcome cognitive dissonance and Stockholm syndrome from not only religious trauma because they were also very religious on my fathers side and like you, I heard god mentioned nonchalantly every day and Christian slurs were used a lot for fear and indoctrination. I’ve cut ties with that side of my family besides my aunt and my grandfather, although, they all played a part in keeping me in that house when they knew I was being abused. I hope you never have to pretend that any of that was okay and have strong boundaries for who’s not good in your life now.
@@tulip811 because I was less than 10 years old and hours away from any family I knew.. Also when one is the victim in any abusive situation, it becomes difficult to recognize the amount of power and personal agency you possess. I was a broken child, I barely spoke or looked people in the eye, running away was a power fantasy at best.
It's so weird that these people try to use the story of Job to unironically be like "See? Suffering is there so you'll be rewarded for your patience!" I mean, doesn't that story end with loads and loads of innocent people just dead JUST to screw Job over more, all people who had no part of the whole thing that got nothing out of any of this because they all just suffered and died? How is that fair for them? The only way you can take that story as a good thing is if you just purely follow Job and Job alone and you have just zero empathy at all for every other secondary and tertiary character in that world. Kind-of a screwed-up way to see things, isn't it? Sort-of teaches people to think "It's fine for people to suffer because I'LL get rewarded because I'M the hero of my own story."
Oh my god. I lost it when they insinuated that babies are evil. Have you ever seen a baby smile? Pure bliss and innocence. My blood is boiling right now.
@@CristianMartinez-hg6xu God can kill as many babies as he wants for the greater good, but when women do it it's _obviously_ fallen human nature I guess
That Zootopia joke was evil haha I loved it =] I can't believe God let his divine instruments be dunked on so hardcore. Pastor MacArthur got burned more harshly than anything Christian's have promised me Lucifer will torture me with in Hell. I heard a rumor that this roast forced the medical industry to add a new degree tier to the burn list.
@Gek ⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻ Thanks for the contribution. For me, choosing life means choosing to acknowledge that my personal relationship with the spiritual is more important and meaningful than anything anyone else or anything else could ever convince me of. I trust in myself and my relationship with the divine. I don't need to believe that Christ is the only way to feel the love of "God"; that love is everywhere, always. You cannot be separated from God's love, as love is the force that binds all, even the demonic. Plus, you have to separate yourself fromg God in order to truly reciprocate feelings of love, otherwise you have an unhealthy codependent relationship with inequitable exchange. To separate from God is to realize that you can't really ever be truly separate from the infinite expanse of the divine, but you also have the space to express your own individual will but no one can do that for you. You have to save yourself, not wait for others to do it for you. We all have our own paths, and maybe the story of "Lucifer" has a few more lessons to teach in regards to this exchange, perhaps.
I don't know if this fits with the discussion but I've been wanting to just get it of my chest for awhile. I was born with a neurological disorder called moebius syndrome that essentially causes facial paralysis and crossed eyes. This has caused a lot of hardship my entire life, for instance I have trouble showing emotions and have developed a phobia of looking people in the eyes. How this relates to the subject is when I went to church I prayed to God everyday for him to take this curse away, and was told that these things are tests God gives us to test our faith, I guess I failed. I then got the idea that in heaven I would be normal, which led me to look forward to death, which eventually caused me to become depressed. Now that I'm an atheist I still hate that I have it but I have come to terms with it and just try to live my life, and honestly this pandemic causing us to wear masks helps me feel normal so that has helped a lot
This one irritates me. You don't have to pray or do anything to prove your love. I pray a lot being mentally abuse. It didn't make it better except it brought me fake peace
Ask him why you are like that. He'll tell you perfectly. I asked him why I wasn't tall, handsome and ethic and he showed me that I can't handle being attractive. He doesn't talk with words he talks through personal revelations.
@@lllULTIMATEMASTERlll Exactly. Job suffered due to a bet between God and Satan. The book therefore does not provide an explanation of suffering at all. I don't really get why it made the cut to be included in the Bible since its premise is contrary to most teachings in the new testament.
I also love how they literally leave it out that A BUNCH OF FUCKING PEOPLE THAT HAD **N O T H I N G** TO DO WITH ANYTHING JUST DIED and swept it under the hug
4:05 "notice what god didn't create: bad." isaiah 45,7 kjv: "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things." well this is awkward.
Just listen to a few christians claiming the bible condemns slavery, after a while you'll get used to hearing them explicitly contradicting parts of their bible on a daily basis.
I am a Christian and this is a response to this that I heard from someone that I believe is pretty reasonable to explain this verse. God creates all good things. The Enemy (Satan), or our Sin nature (we’re all born with sit but I believe that babies are born into a sin world. This does not make them sinners, the idea of a parents baptizing their babies seems to pointless to me but that is besides the point and a rant for another day)- the enemy, and our sin nature is what corrupts good things. God created light, and the absence of light is darkness. God created peace, the absence of peace, i suppose, would be anxiety. With every positive, there’s a negative. It’s our choice on whether or not we choose the negative or positive. The Bible words it as “evil” not because ‘Oh that’s not the Hebrew definition, “evil actually means-“ No, the word evil means evil. God words it like this because he is not Ashamed or afraid to take full responsibility for his creation. He created Humans. He created Hitler. But Hitler had a choice like everyone else in this world. We all have free will, which is something that God won’t take from us. I could branch off in so many ways, but I’ll try not to to stay on topic on explaining that verse. Hitler was evil. God created Hitler. God created the evil. It’s a A+B = C and A+C=B kind of thing that we learn in Algebra. God himself isn’t an Evil God. But he created something that used to be good (Hitler was once an innocent child/baby) and turned evil. God is taking full responsibility and simply cutting to the chase here with no strings attached. Instead of saying something like “Yeah I created Hitler, but it was Hitler’s own fault that he did this and that”, God is straight up saying “Yeah, I created this evil thing. I created everything good, and everything bad.” That’s my interpretation on it lol, idk how many other people would believe that. The Old Testament is super crazy tho I gotta admit.
To this point, I've always had an ambivalence to people who claim god speaks to them through signs, as if an all knowing god who already knows what you're going to do is going to give you a sign instead of communicating with you directly. Another problem with this line of thinking is they don't realize they are going to read that sign however they want to read it, since its so vague and there's so many interpretations of a sign depending on the person's life experience and emotional state its pretty much confirmation bias.
@@ogklutchking5589 The Devil as is traditionally understood in Christian theology is born out of a combination of translation errors and willful alterations to the original text of the Bible so there could be both a singular entity to place blame on and a means of intimidating people. My issue has never been with the faith, both those who would corrupt and twist it as a means to an end. Which many people have done, are doing, and will continue to do.
@@nicodemusedwards6931 Yeah that's why you look inward not outward. Don't believe no one you have to see it for yourself by getting to know yourself and forgiving your parents.
"It's because of original sin!" Then God's not omnipotent. "It's because humans have free will!" Then God's not omniscient. "It's all part of God's plan!" Then God's not omnibenevolent. Also that would mean humans don't have free will. The argument that makes the most sense for me is that evil is an absence of good. But that just redefines evil, rather than reconcile it with the existence of God. If bad things are a result of an absence of God, that means there are blind spots that God can't reach with his grace, meaning that he's not omnipotent or omnipresent.
@@dr.cheeze5382one year and this person still has not answered your question if god wants us all to worship him it would be easier to make us all mindless drones giving us free will makes him a sadist
Always good!! I was just talking about this with my mom and son today, I just recently became an atheist, and they’re Christians. I’m not trying to deconvert anyone, in my family, but I’m not afraid of speaking my truth. If there is a god, his eye isn’t on the sparrow or me…sparrows get eaten every day, and no day is promised to me or anyone else. Leaving religion is one of the best things I’ve done in my life, I wish I’d left sooner.
@Gek ⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻ "Science is a religion." CITATION NEEDED. "Jesus Christ is Lord and God." PROOF NEEDED. "God made you. Attempting to judge him is inherently fallacious." why? what reason do i have to belive that he made me and even if he did how does that free him of judgement? shouldn't he be even more responsible?
@Gek ⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻ I thought damning people to hell was God's job? Playing God is also a major sin in Abrahamic religions. It sounds like you suffered an episode of psychosis my friend, but not to worry! We have meds for that.
@Atheist Deprogramming Science is the study and pursuit of knowledge regarding observable reality. I would say a scientific belief system leads you to truth better than say astrology.
Reminds me of the Twilight Zone episode "It's a Good Life." Everyone lives in fear of this child yet they have to plaster a smile on and say, "That's a real good thing you done, Anthony..." 😬
God gets the credit for all the good stuff, but don't dare blame them for a singular bad thing... But thank them for it even though it's not their fault? Yeah, no thanks. And as soon as I write this, they pretty much say the same thing.
As a kid I always wondered why the religious cried when someone died if they believe that the person is "in a better place aka Heaven". I don't think that they really believe it but the idea that there is no afterlife is too terrifying to consider for them.
Hey, on another note; sorry if that's random; but i do a lil charity-project that uses up time but no money. It kinda converts time (we're talking about minutes, not hours) into 'good stuff', so to say. Interested in hearing more and deciding then? Of course, if i ever ask you for money and/or personal info, you should block me the very same Nanosecond. Ok?
I used to be religious as a kid and I'd say even if you believe someone is in a better place, you cry because they're not in your life anymore. You'd have to die to see them again. I stopped believing in an after life and it's actually been a huge relief.
When someone dies, i grieve because they are no longer with us. I'll cry that the happiness they brought me is over and that eventually i'll forget them. As for christians, i feel they should really only have 2 responses. Happiness since the person is hypothetically going to heaven, or sadness that their loved one is going to hell, going straight to hell, do not pass go, do not collect $200. The problem with this death religion is they focus too much on life.
Used to cry when my Grandma died. Not ever since. Once i embrace that there's no point. People born and they live then they die. It's a natural cycle of mortality, there's no point in grieving, there's no point in drowing in sadness. I wonder if i'll cry when my mom inevitably pass, she's the only important person in my life right now, but. Even then, with me being who i am, i'm terrified that i will feel nothing for her when the time come. Will i be like when my Grandpa and many of my cats i've raised throughout my entire 27 years of life died? Just a void. I felt nothing. When my Grandpa died i felt relieved. His alzheimer had reduced him as a person to the point that i can no longer sympathize and my cats. I've always kept in mind that their life is way shorter than us human. So i enjoyed their company, but. When it's time for them to go. I can let go of them very easily, like just letting go of something i was holding. I scared of my ability to not feel anything sometimes. Like, am i normal? Is something wrong with me? Maybe because i've seen deaths since i was young (massive car accident, many lies dead on the side of a road and i saw it all, many of them died very bloodied and gory).
When it comes to the question of free will, why does the free will of murderers matter more than the will of their victims? Why does god consider mind control to be a greater evil than killing someone innocent. Also, I thought god wasn’t capable of evil. If god wants to mind control you, it won’t be wrong because he’s god and can do whatever he wants. That’s the argument for why god commits genocide.
@Comfy Crab I know. But we already have that. If you see someone doing something wrong, the right thing to do is to stop them. That’s removing their free will, is it not? But it’s still right, because saving innocent people is more important than letting evil people do whatever they want.
When I was getting through my substance abuse issues after college, I had a HUGE problem with AA & NA that lead me to relapse multiple times. It wasn't just that I'm an atheist & don't do the higher power thing.. It was that I had to take all my hard work & credit it to this higher power. Everything I did wrong was me being a POS. Everything that I did right was the HP. It made me so mad, like give me some credit here! I completely changed my life, worked incredibly hard, but NOPE!! It's all thanks to Jesus & I'm just a POS. I finally stopped trying to give away all my power & responsibility, been clean since. I know 12 step works for many people, & more power to you if it does. But it isn't a magic cure all, and we need to stop treating it like it is.
The most dangerous facet of the Christian/Conservative clips in this video is that babies and kids are somehow born sinful and are seen as selfish for somehow trying to get their needs met in the only ways they know how (crying, tantrums, etc). There’s no trying to understand how kids are wired, growing and they’re automatically deemed as sinful cause they’re seen as kids’ bodies with adult minds… There’s so much ignorance around child psychology that I’m still trying to unlearn a lot of that toxicity and lies (thanks James Dobson and Focus on the “Family” /s) and learning more science and compassionate based methods to parenting. I’m not planning to have kids at all but just learning about mainstream techniques, giving them a voice, and (God forbid) working with your child on problems is doing wonders in giving me compassion to heal my Inner Child and accepting who I am after my recent Autism/ADHD diagnoses.
Gotta love how deep and systemic the victim blaming is that it leads people to label literal infants as evil. Babies are so pure and innocent Labelling the kid as inherently evil is not just victim blaming but doubly removes responsibility from the parents for a poor upbringing Oh don't forget the bible straight up says in the 10 commandments that parents can kill their kids for not obeying them 👌
The funny part is that these people are always saying kids are born with sin and aren't safe from the rapture, but then are against abortion with the argument that it's "an innocent baby who can't make his own choice."
There's actually something called "childhood egocentrism" babies and toddlers are literally incapable of feeling true empathy. They don't understand that you are a separate being as human as them. Only until the age of reason 6-7 that they begin to understand that people are separate from them. It's not malicious, not even bad, just ignorance about something.
Ooof this one hit home. My mom had no concept of religious trauma and keeps saying things like “it’s in God’s plan” and just cannot comprehend or remember that that phrase just makes my anxiety WORSE. She legit thinks you can’t have trauma from Christianity. And when I do voice my grievances, she says “I don’t understand why you’re blaming God!” Just…how do I get her to understand that when she says stuff like this she’s invalidating my trauma?
You know, it strikes me that these Christians are making excuses for an abusive spouse. 'He hits me because he loves me!' 'I need to trust him, no matter how much he hurts me' 'And it's all my fault!'
God: It's all part of my plan...except the bad stuff. That's your free will. Even though I know everything and it's impossible for me to be wrong so it's not like you can do anything different from what I planned. Still your fault. Believers: I can't possibly be responsible for my own actions that caused pain. The devil made me do it. The Devil: Minding his business trying to catch up on the MCU.
The christian mindset of suffer through life with an egotistical abuser means you can have happiness for eternity with that same egotistical abuser is just painful. So is their stance on abuse is love and might is right. God is allowed to rip your family to shreds in front of you and send people you love to suffer for eternity, all because he loves you. He will gamble with your soul because he loves you.
Amazing video! A dear friend of mine passed away last month from a battle with cancer. She had 3 small children. Her service was plagued with these familiar Biblical tropes and it was physically painful to sit and listen to it. Two weeks later, another close friend's 3 year old nephew suffered a spontaneous brain bleed and passed away after being non-responsive for 4 days. When I told her I was tragically sorry for her loss she said, "We are praying God uses this to further his kingdom." What??? I mean - if God had restored brain function after the damage THEN I could see how that would advance his kingdom. Taking a child away from his parents and younger sister is in NO WAY any type of god I would want to serve, or consider holy. If god had let my friend survive her cancer instead of it coming back again and again and again until it overtook her brain, THEN I could see how that would be a god to serve. Taking a mother away from children, one who is too young to even remember her, is not a god I would want to serve.
11:50 "All the suffering we get, we need." I wonder how many times he'd have to be punched in the face before he decided he didn't need that particular suffering anymore.
I was molested as a kid, and when I asked 'where was God?', I was told 'he was holding your hand, weeping...'....that doesn't make him merciful and compassionate...it makes him an accessory..I am training to become a mental health counselor..you know, actually doing something to help others who've been through what I've been through. not condoning it. btw...according to the OT, God *did* make evil...he actually says he made both Good and Evil.
@@BlackTasky85 to quote Boba Fett: "Everyone dies. It's the final and only lasting Justice. Evil exists; it is intelligence in the service of entropy. When the side of a mountain slides to kill a village, this is not evil, for evil requires intent. Should a sentient being cause that landslide, there is evil; and requires Justice as a consequence, so that civilization can exist."
It's why I tend to disregard The Problem of Evil and instead, focus on why a benevolent deity would allow suffering to exist in the world. Both "evil" and "bad" are value judgments, whereas suffering is a very real, measurable thing. My conclusion is pretty obvious. Because suffering exists, any deity would either be benevolent and not all-powerful, or all-powerful and malevolent.
The very best explanation comes from morality alignment in Dungeons & Dragons. It's a three by three grid: law vs chaos on one side with good vs evil on the other with neutral in the middle. A tsunami is a naturally occurring event. A wave formed from the shockwave of an earthquake at the sea bottom. No malice, no intelligence, no purpose. A moral alignment cannot be assigned to this. But if there was a god responsible for it, then it changes. Evil is defined by the purposeful harm of intelligent beings, law is defined in this context as following rules whether self made or from another source. By D&D logic, the Abrahamic God is Lawful Evil since he intentionally causes such suffering in order to fulfil some grand plan.
@@kingsadvisor18 just wanted to add that "chaotic" doesn't mean what most people think, but means your moral code comes from within, rather than imposed by religion or state, etc
One of the many reasons I became an atheist, is when I sat down and thought about all the kids that had cancer or died horrible deaths at such young ages.
You know what every life has in common? Bad things happen. Then good things happen. Then those good things cause bad things to happen. Then those bad things cause good things to happen. This is not what we would expect if we had an omnibenevolent God. This is what we would expect if we had a universe that was fundamentally indifferent to good and bad, to up and down. In this way, Christians lie to us when they say everything happens for a reason. It doesn't.
Yeah, i wonder also why i see in atheist-communitys so rarely bought up the fact that Pain could just be a part of life as God intends it, so its 'necesary evil' but not 'a must': Means, yes, you can just remove all Pain, but that also removed Character-Arcs, Growth, and much more. I am always a bit surprised Atheists seem to shrug that under the carpet, when meanwhile Uncle Iroh would surely agree: Pain is Part of Life. Thats a generally accepted thing, whetever your Religious or a Realist or a Nihilist or Whatever-Else. I just dont see it much discussed. The very likely possibility that Pain isnt a Must in any way, except the roundabout way of 'If you want the real deal, you need the whole package'. If you need a more practical example, ok, here: Imagine God knows an Alien-Race is coming one day and it can only be defeated with Max-Level-Creativity and full-blown-free-will. That enough for you as a reason?
@@nenmaster5218 it was already said within the video why the "growth and character" argument doesn't work all the time. Also, the reason why it doesn't come up to much in atheists circles that God intends things to be bad (unless they are criticizing him) is because that would contradict his nature of being all good
@@nenmaster5218 I'm not pretending that in the slightest. I don't need to, because there's plenty of examples of mass human suffering and death at the hands of totally natural processes. Droughts, rock slides, tornadoes, hurricanes, famine, disease, earthquakes, volcanic explosions, random malfunctions in the body, I could go on.
Theists come to unbelievers and demand to know, "How could you look at this world around us, with the majesty of the mountains, the beauty of the flowers, the loveliness of a baby's smile, and fail to see the glory of The Divine Intellect that designed them?" Then, when the unbeliever asks, " What designed the staphylococcus baccilli?," the believer shuffles their feet, clears their throat, and says, "Well, this is a difficult problem, but I think we can understand this was allowed for good reason." Anyone besides me noticing the difference between those two ideas?
“Those evils only entered the world because of the sin of our first parents and we inherit the terrible consequences of this original sin.” That’s one hell of a generational curse….
God is a mean kid sitting on an anthill with a magnifying glass, and I'm the ant. He could fix my life in five minutes if He wanted to, but he'd rather burn off my feelers and watch me squirm. Bruce
This is one of my favorite RU-vid channels. Please keep making these videos! A topic I'd love to see covered is how Christians are taught to believe that God can always read your thoughts, and how that can affect people
The stinger is that yahweh can still exist and just be lying, he did it canonically. "If you eat of the tree you will die." Adam and Eve were still innocent, and what toddler (because they were what? A few days old?) would think that meant metaphorically?
Even if they were adults and had lived for centuries, they did so without the knowledge of deceit and lies and trickery. I fail to see how it's their fault when Yahweh did not allow them to develop common sense by fucking up, or encountering evil.
There was a pretty chilling quote that was allegedly on the walls of Auschwitz although I won't say that I can confirm it's existence. It said: "If there is a god, he will have to beg my forgiveness"
"he doesn't care, or he isn't there," is the same conclusion I came to after spending my life hopping from Christianity, to new age, to paganism after bottling up the questions I had about how awful the world can be if there was meant to be something divine. I could be upset about losing all the wasted years, but honestly I'm just glad I'm finally out of it and I've taken control of my own life instead.
Any good you do in this world is a work of God, and you m ust give him praise and gratitude that he allows you to be a vessel of his benevolence. Any bad you do, however, is totally your doing. Satan cannot be held responsible for your evi acts. That was the last toxic tenet i had to overcome before I could be happy as an atheist.
The thing is that it is satan that effects your way of thinking of doing something wrong but when your turn to God and believe and trust in him and born again you realize the difference between what your doing is right and wrong. The deception is people say it's not satan because he deceived in people's mind that it isn't him when it is that why demonic possession happens and people that seen demons manifest. So the problem with him is most people aren't born again that's why there deceived and deceiving themselves. Hopefully you understand and turn to him and repent and be born again then you can understand the truth of what sin is and really how wicked and fallen this world is through the holy spirit with spiritual eyes and ears to see and hear. God bless you Bradypus tridactylus.
@@tornadog4064 The opinions and attitudes expressed in your post could be dismissed as harmless blather if ithey weren't so toxic and hateful. These doctrines do immeasurable damage to the individual, their friends and family, and to society at large. Live your life for the greater good in reality, not in some fantastic make-believe world of demons, phantoms, and scary all-powerful entities.
@@bradypustridactylus488 Demonic possession and demons manifesting is not a doctrine when it's true and you and others find it hateful because you can't handle hearing certain truth of reality because it makes you realize the truth of the heavenly father and that messes with your complacency in life and being able to do what you believe is normal to do but if you actually understood the truth from the heavenly father and his word you would know the actual difference between right and wrong and not have a false perception of what is right and being hypocritical. An example is people think there good but lie steal and think it's OK for others to do the same. Hope you understand and turn to heavenly father and repent so you can have salvation. God bless you
Babies are "selfish" because they have no awareness that others exist separately from them. That doesn't develop until a few years later. And no, that's not narcissism. Narcissists promote themselves because they have low self-esteem, and pumping themselves up is their way to make them feel better about themselves. Babies do not have low self-esteem that they're trying to compensate for.
Someone once wrote in the comments, to justify God's irresponsibility and incompetence is that God allows evil things to happen because he gave us free will and if he didn't do that, then he is a "tyrant" and "nobody likes tyrants", implying that only an evil and despotic god doesn't allow evil to happen, but to me, that's not being an tyrant, that's being responsible and setting a good example.
People keep quoting Job about taking shit without complaint. Job HIMSELF didn't even cop to that in the end! But at either rate, that is not the BIG, SUPRISING lesson from the book of Job. Job's book ends with God saying to "Job's friends"(who blamed Job and made excuses for God): - don't testify on my behalf if you don't know what you are talking about! And yet, ALL those people in this video, went right ahead doing JUST THAT, with gusto .... (speaking for God without knowing why things happen) ... JESUS!!!
My bet friend was in a terrible accident, he was in a coma and the doctors said there was a good chance he would never recover. His parents prayed and prayed and his father gave up alcohol in exchange for his sons life. So he woke up from his coma, mentally handicapped. And my parents went "Yeah. They should have been mlre specific about it. They should have said god should bring them back their son without brain damage." Thats where I lost my faith....
My problem with the free will argument is that God could have given us free will without the ability to do evil. Our choices could have been purely wholesome like choosing to give someone a cookie or a cupcake. Not to mention, there are an infinite amount of evil actions that we cannot even conceive of or have the ability to perpetuate such actions. We have enough free will to commit some actions but not enough to commit them all. In other words, our free will is limited, so why couldn't it be a little more limited to prevent evil actions and thoughts.
Precisely. There's no excuse for suffering to exist in the world if God is both benevolent and all-powerful. Either God can't be omnipotent, or he must be malevolent. There's not really a way around it.
If God wanted us to have 100% free will he wouldn't let justice system exist Or he wouldn't let some people become disabled. It's difficult to kill people if you don't have legs Why didn't God make evil people disabled? After all he's all knowing. He knows who will want to sin the future. Why some people are allowed to sin while other aren't?
Ah, Original Sin! Getting cosmically owned by an omnipotent deity for the crime of existing... Yep. You bet. I'm sure God has the time and the desire to be petty!
The crime is not existing it's going against God and sinning openly and God is not petty He loves you and wants you to repent the problem is people don't know the difference between right and wrong and being deceived because they believe in media yet media lies to them yet believe it but God shows them truth through his word and people don't believe. An example of the difference between right and wrong is people say there good people yet openly lie and steal and are OK with others doing the same while others that follow Christ don't do that anymore and know that no one is good but God. Hope you understand and turn to God and trust in him and repent so you can have salvation. God bless you Caroline Cruz
@@tornadog4064 How is it going against God to be birthed? It's called ORIGINAL sin. As in from the origin, which for humans is natural birth. You ever looked at a little baby and thought, " I bet after his nap he's going to go rob a bank, sinful little thing"? No. Because, because babies have neither the desire nor the motor skills to pull off a bank heist. Or any other act of evil for that matter, unless you count diarrhea diapers
@@CarolineBearoline Sin was from Adam and Eve from eating from tree of fruit and knowledge and disobeying God. Sin, which is meant by "going astray", as soon as they are capable of it, and which is very early. Sin soon appears in the temper and actions of people; they go out of God's way, and turn everyone to their own way, and walk in the broad road which leads to destruction: and particularly they are very early guilty of lying; as soon as they can speak, and before they can speak plain, they lisp out lies, which they learn from their father the devil, who is the father of lies; and so they continue all their days strangers to divine things, going astray from God, the God of truth, continually doing abominations and speaking lies; which continuance in these things makes the difference between reprobate men and God's elect; Hope you understand Caroline God bless you.
@@tornadog4064 I understand what it is, my mother is a pastor and my great grandfather was a pastor. The Catholics also feel that babies are sinful and you lose me there. I can't take anything Clergy says as serious past that point, if they're going to say babies have original sin. And what is Christianity based off of, if not Catholicism?
It's kind of hard not to turn to superstition when hard times come a knocking. God is either a scapegoat or just some being that lets you get lucky sometimes.
It's almost as if a book comprised of many different ancient stories, including historical telling's and exaggerations, fiction and myth, compiled over many centuries and further alterest in countless ways including mistranslations, alterations and out-right fabrications, that is currently produced in near countlessly differing variations, ends up being absolute nonsense no matter how you present it.
The most annoying thing about the idea of Adam and Eve “rebelling” is that eating from the tree wasn’t even their idea. They were manipulated by an outside influence to do it, had no actual knowledge that there would be any real consequences for doing it, but God punished them anyway for making a mistake He never bothered to sit down and talk with them about. It’s like a shitty parent who thinks their authority is all that matters, expecting their children to never disobey them simply because they’re “the parent”, then getting mad when their kid doesn’t listen to them because the parent never bothered to explain why the kid has to follow their orders in any meaningful way.
I think the view of "all bad things happen for a reason" changed for my grandparents when they finally realized my parents were abusing me. Something beyond their control yet preventable happening to someone they love who never deserved it. Why would such a loving God allow a child trying to exist and be a literal child be abused to the point where they develop several dissociative disorders that will be lifelong. A loving God would not allow his followers to neglect, intensify, or even justify that child's pain. A loving God would not have let me endure this. But the absense of a loving God gives us Kent Hovind and he's so stupid that I can forget my pain because I'm too busy laughing at him
I remember my former church saying all my suffering would be a great testimony to teens and young adults... the same as "it happened for a reason". The devil didn't cause it and god didn't cause it or let it happen. Fucked up people in my life made it happen. Christian fundamentalist can be absolute wackers.
Here's something that confuses me: If sin didn't exist until Adam and Eve ate of the fruit giving them the knowledge of good and evil, was there free will before they took that first bite? If God wanted us to choose to love him, didn't we need to choose between the two opposites? And is the tree only the knowledge of good and evil meaning evil was already in the world (sin)? If this is the case, Adam and Eve didn't bring sin into the world, they only brought knowledge of it to humans; therefore, God created sin and evil. God created it but then denied them the knowledge and even told them not to eat of the tree so he tried to keep it from them. But why put the tree in there in the first place? Was it so we could choose to follow him or not? But to do this, sin already existed; he built it as part of out very nature.
God before Adam and Eve ate tree he was trying to prevent us from discovering evil because he is all good but then satan tricked eve and now we have sin that got released in the world because of discovering the evil God didn't want people to know so now God is trying to help people know the good and cleanse the evil and get rid of it so it goes back to only knowing the good because God is all good just like when light get's rid of darkness. Hope you understand. God bless you
@@tornadog4064 The one problem with that is that Satan, as traditionally drifted, doesn’t exist in the original text, nor is it implied initially that the serpent and Satan were one in the same. Satan is a corruption of the original term “Ha-Satan” which means the adversary, the accuser, or the prosecutor. Ha-Satan was part of the divine court, rather than being a malevolent, otherworldly force. The idea of Satan as a singular malevolent individual didn’t come until much later, at the earliest being in 300 BCE when the Book of Enoch was written. Even there, Satan is described similar initially to his counterpart in the Book of Job, not in opposition to god, but a servant of god who acts in service to god by offering the temptation of sin and then punishing it. The serpent was only identified as Satan or the Devil in the second century AD by Justin Martyr. The serpent, initially, was just a talking snake.
@@nicodemusedwards6931 Then how do explain demonic possession and demons manifesting because there's proof of that.Thanks for being kind and wanting to debate instead of getting triggered like others.God bless you
@@tornadog4064 I didn’t deny the existence of demonic possession or even the existence of demons. Only that the figure of Satan as the adversary of god and the tie to the serpent being Satan as being a relatively recent addition. The two aren’t mutually exclusive. Demons can exist without the idea of Satan leading them. Also, I would ask for what sort of proof there is to demonic possession. Many historical cases are misunderstood cases of things like mental illness and epilepsy, which people didn’t have an easy way of explaining at the time. Demons may exist, and demonic possession is possibly real, but I would certainly love to hear about any concrete evidence.
The thing that I've always hated about the Job story is that Job's kids all die in order to test Job, but it's okay because God gives him new kids at the end to replace the old ones. It makes sense if you live in ancient times and consider children to be property, but not if you are a good who loves and cares about everyone. Most people imagine themselves as Job in that story, but imagine how wronged you would feel if you were Job's kid.
Interesting how it's just universally accepted that freedom is an inherently good thing even if it results in mountains of suffering. Also, God clearly prioritises the freedom of a murderer over the freedom of the murder victim. Interesting choice.
Time to bust out this classic "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" -Commonly attributed to Epicurius
I remember when my mom passed away, my grandparents said “good thing will happens, god has plans for you ahead.” And I’m so pissed at that statement. Why would I need to be hurt, lost and in despair for good things to happen? Am I not good enough?
My father died recently of Lymphoma, and while I was the least distraught in my family about this, not because I did not care for him, but because I am in very good terms with the idea of death and everyone's life just ending one day But since he used to be very religious, and I am yet to break it to my family I am agnostic, I followed through with the ceremonies and prayed with the rest of my family And then on the car ride back, they said that infamous phrase... "Everything happens for a reason, so let's just thank God, and confront the struggles he sets for us" Thanks God, it was nice of you to give my father cancer, and tuberculosis, and torture him for a year, only to return him the cancer after he beat it once, so that he dies anyway, thanks for leaving my mom a Widow, and leaving my grandparents extremely hurt about the death of their youngest, nicest son As well as pull on their heartstrings, forcing us to carry the casket while clearly distraught, playing dramatic music, and making us sing about how he may resurrect in god's reign Thanks for leaving them all in way worse terms with this loss, and lamenting his death hoping it'll be undone instead of learning to let go
Your family seems very strong for be able to go through this and I really hope that my God protects you all through all of it. I hope that your dad’s in heaven and is enjoying the freedom up there (if it does exist, which I can only have faith that it does). I won’t even try to tell you my personal belief on the things you said. All I can tell you is that I’m genuinely so sorry and I wish the best possible things for your friends and family, whether they’re going through a hard time or not. Everyone deserves peace and happiness no matter the kind of situation they’re in. Whether your family is religious or not for now and forever, I seriously hope that you, your friends and family will be okay in the end 🤍
@@YumYumAlyArt Fair enough, though is this the god who'd not protect medieval Jews, slaves and many peasants in past Christendom, at it's dumber and more violent moments? Also, pretty sure Revelations say's we'll be living in this world, post raising, and not heaven.
@@chrissonofpear1384 we will be residing in heaven for if I’m not mistaken, many years, however, Gods interpretation of time is not the same as our own. Also, Jesus states that he will “go to prepare a place for you at my Father’s house” or something along those lines. So I do believe we will be living in heaven for some time! In the Old Testament, God protected those who obeyed Him. You all keep stressing out the Old Testament and how God was cruel. I believe it is because Jesus had not been born yet or persecuted, things were far more difficult. We now have Jesus who is here to love everyone, that is what I focus on in my relationship with Christianity. I focus on the Jesus who saves, not the merciless God that once was. That is far in the past for me, and dare I would consider it even irrelevant to Christianity. Christians should be focused on the salvation. Not on the Old Testament. However I a, sure that despite the amount of people that died, God did have mercy for those who he found no true fault in. I’m sure there are many things that happened that the Old Testament did not mention. Also, yes, revelation does say that we will be back in this world, but it will be brand new and without sin since God would’ve already destroyed Satan. Sin will be no more and we will be enjoying the earth without suffering. At least that is how I like to see it. Many people have different opinions on the interpretations of revelation. I’m just one of many
@@YumYumAlyArt Well clearly it's different to us, as the interpretation that two people may not equal an entire species 'choosing' seems to maybe escape Him. Or that we often don't get a choice which 'heretical' version of Christianity we're born into or not, or eventually wane ourselves off of, after the umpteenth internecine war, or pogrom. Now, about WHY THE jeopardy exists in the first place. And Satan GOT ALL his powers and access to this world in the first place, from this God - plus permission to revisit Him and give his suspect opinion about Job, was my prior understanding. I myself would hesitate to stone CHILDREN for one, or let those die who'd just dropped the Ark ACCIDENTALLY. Or have whole households swallowed into ground for just doubting Moses, etc (how old were some in those households? And Achan's children?) And many Jews believed in Him, and trusted Him, even if they didn't believe in the version 2.0 update version, that happened before most of them were born, in a different era - and they were not protected very consistently. Including within Christendom. And would be nice if the supposed policy makers had consistent opinions on such things, and 1 Corinthians 10 and Matthew 27:25 also. And what, by default, DID become of many gay people after Matthew 5:18 anyway? Was it the same as what, by default and summarily, became of many 'witches' in Christendom, too?
@@chrissonofpear1384 I will tell you my thoughts and personal beliefs. Old Testament was cruel but the world was wicked back then. People had been given straight instructions by God and it was their choice to not follow them. I believe that any children who were slaughtered were given entrance to heaven because children are innocent in the eyes of God. God created everything good, but he also created the things that our sin has made to become bad. For instance, he created Satan, but Satan had a choice and his choice was to become prideful and plan to overthrow God. Witches and Satanist’s choose to follow Satan’s footsteps and choose the path of revenge and hate, death, etc., even in current times. I personally will not be putting Old Testament God into my modern beliefs since Jesus now exists. Jesus saves and loves everyone. I believe that if a person loves Jesus, and others, and accepts that Jesus died for their sins and tries to live life the best that they can, they will go to heaven. Half of the words you said, I do not understand. But I live christianity as simple as I possibly can. I do not enjoy bringing controversial topics into my interpretation of religion because I find it pointless and nonbeneficial. Conversations like that won’t get me to heaven. Salvation will. And salvation is a personal things between God and the person. If a person claims to be a witch by their tongue, they could be a completely different person in reality. The Bible says to pray behind closed doors. Your salvation is not determined by the person you appear to be, it’s determined by who you truly are. Only you and God will know who you truly are. Also, Satan wasn’t given anything. Satan temped Adam and Eve and brought sin into the world, sin was something that came from the disobedience of God. Once there was sin in the world (because of Adam and Eve and satan), God could no longer be close with us. This is why he brought Jesus into the picture. So that a sinless man might die for our sins to give us that connection back to God. I’m sorry if I didn’t answer your questions or something, you just confused me is all! I sincerely apologize.
Sometimes, I just wanna talk to u Your videos have helped me so much since my deconversion~ I can honestly say you're incredible and what u r doing is helping and saving lives~
Ya the sexual abuse I suffered as a child didn’t happen for some great purpose. I was attacked and there’s no reason for it. I have to learn how to heal and rebuild myself, but I’m not who I could have been. The good that comes after is not some linear outcome from abuse, it’s just the life I live with good and bad moments
