9:36 "so I wanna know WHO thought this was a good idea" I still stand by that lol 6:22 Shannon Wiliiams' C#5 had to be edited out due to copyright unfortunately:(
Hey! Have you seen the video of Wendy performing for Lee Mujin Service? It sounds like she has been focusing on improving her already great vocals even more. Would you do please, please, pretty please do an analysis of it??
@@WorldifySanity Thanks for saying this! He's definitely improved a lot over the years, especially after his enlistment. He'd be a main vocalist in any other group. That's the power of EXO.
@@blank_linethey don’t know how to pick vocals, they just know how to PROPERLY TRAIN (in most cases). Back in the day, SM was the worst for training in terms of physical abuse trainees suffered if they didn’t improve or did something wrong, I’m talking dropping weighted balls on your torso to build core strength, running laps whilst singing if you did something wrong. Now they somewhat value the human rights of their trainees so it’s not like that anymore and they just actually focus on vocals and technique instead of most other countries who treat vocals as a side dish and only care about dance or visuals. Sm doesn’t care as much about visuals because they make all their artists get surgery before debut anyways lmao and they evenly balance dance and vocals for the trainees. This isn’t always the case though like shotaro, he’s not a very good singer by any means for sm standard but the guy can dance so they debuted him immediately and because he can dance so well, it hides the fact he’s not a good vocalist compared to other members of nct and riize. Sm just know their shit when it comes to training and if all companies trained like mamamoo a company and, we’d have kpop stars who were more than just mediocre singers
@KawaiiKermit a company can do both. Some things are just pure talent, you can't train everyone to perfection. If you listen to some of their current idols pre audition voices, it's evident that they were already great vocalists. It always goes in unexpected ways. Some may improve tremendously like Taemin, and some may never sing well despite training, just like Sehun. Anyway, sm always makes sure their groups have at least 2 good stable vocalists. And others may or may not grow in skill with time But yes, they definitely don't don't care about your looks, they can always make you the next Taeyeon clone 😂
@@blank_line lol only Wendy carrying the group vocals. aside from her there's no good vocalist in Red Velvet. Don't mention Seulgi because she's only average vocalist.
fun fact: Seulgi actually rerecorded 28 reasons song again after she shot the Recording Behind bcuz she didn't like the output then. so the final recording that we hear in the song we stream is an entirely different recording from the clip here
Vocalists have good and bad days where your voice just cannot cooperate. However in Seulgi's case even in the final recording you can notice her incomplete techniques at places (regardless of the heavy editing during mixing).She definitelly have a lot more work to do to improve herself.
Seulgi is underrated. Her voice is strong and beautiful, and her singing is consistent. She took the characteristics of Wendy and Joy's voices and combined them together in her singing. She is really strong, like the main voices.
@@yonyvalverde2436 There is a vocal trainer on RU-vid who spoke about her and it is not considered a defect, on the contrary. She said that Seulgi is adept at controlling her voice and controlling the nasal voice and when to use it.
I think Lily’s perception by the public is similar to Demi’s. Yes, their voices can sound a bit “screamy” at times. But that’s just their natural tones and they don’t take away from how solid the both of them are as vocalists.
@@Nameless_mixes oh yeah for sure, i think i’ve just seen too many hate comments discrediting her abilities and passing it off as only screaming and nothing else 😭
@@Nameless_mixesyou cannot compare Demi to lily. Demi genuinely has one of the most prominent valsalva issue I have ever seen and is extremely tense and pitchy. They also have a wildly different health history than lily. Lily, on the other hand, is just very light (and tense above a certain point).
i like that you include instances of bad belting from objectively great vocalists like solar, lily or winter. it shows that while they are still amazing vocalists, they can mess up or push their limits sometimes too.
@@skyhideaway Winter's pitch issue is a result of her tendency to strain her voice. She's different from idols like Shuhua who just don't know the right pitch. Winter has a good sense of pitch. She knows what notes she's supposed to hit. She just can't do it sometimes, because her vocal cords are so strained and fatigued.
Thank you for recognizing Doyoung! He is one of 4 main vocalists for NCT 127. Kpop fans always discredit NCT, but their vocals are some of the best among Kpop male groups. They never give them enough appreciation.
Putting great against bad belting makes you realize the difference in vocals, especially for casual listeners such as myself. I've always thought that whenever I see clips of IU's Good Day, it sounds strained, and this video really puts it into perspective. Thank you!
@@hijaraharjo9879 I've now heard that the high notes started off as a joke and they ended up keeping it in the song. Not sure how credible that information is
i really appreciate the objectivity in this video and the acknowledgement that 1) rankings aren't nuanced enough and are not a good measure of vocal skill and 2) even great vocalists have rough performances where sometimes their technique falls through. this channel has created a great, safe space for discourse and in-depth discussion of vocals, so thank you for that. sidebar: it's so nice to see all of these older clips of idols, in addition to the newer ones, that show how they aren't infallible and have grown and developed their technique over the years. singing well is something you have to consistently work towards, and this compilation is a wonderful reminder that no one is perfect but can improve if they are courageous enough to put in the effort.
@@aintnootherfanI do hope you've seen D.O's cover of Rewrite the Stars with Suhyun (of AKMU). No need to react to it on YT, I just think you'd enjoy it. 😊
damn you can tell that joy struggled so much to hit that note. i don't know why they make idols that are not belters or cannot hit high notes have to do it in songs and performances, sometimes they just can't, doesn't make them bad singers it just is how it is
For real. No offense, Joy's tone is indeed unique and colourful, but won't deny her skill still inadequate to be a belter. She actually sounds incredible already within her range. SM shouldn't pushing her to be a belter when they have zero effort to polish her basic skills first, just like SM should help Seulgi to get rid or tone down of her nasality.
@seungwanismyjoy5096 Being "nasal" or having "forward placement" is actuallynhelpful for a vocalist because it aids in projection. The immortal SoHyang has the exact same tone. Are you going to call her a bad singer?
I have no understanding of vocal technique, but I have always loved when someone belts out a big vocal with the feeling like the sound could expand forever. This is also why I got into k-pop, Chen belted out a vocal like that and I fell into a rabbit hole. I also love how you have included many examples from the same singers, both good and bad, showing everyone can sometimes fumble yet also practise and improve - this is probably the best way to do a vocal ranking video!
I am a Carat and I would like to thank you for noticing and appreciating DK and Seungkwan's vocal. Seeing them in your video where you explain their skills in detail, bring me joy. You have earned yourself a subscriber. Keep up the good work!
@@-_-3776 well since you claimed that Jungkook is decent at best in another reply section,if Jungkook can get a pass in vocal then Seungkwan and DK can get a one for sure too.
I'm not sure if it's true or just rumors but I once read that the note was originally supposed to be lower and she did it like this for a joke but then someone (producer or something) said she should keep doing like this and she always regretted that she had joked around bc now she had to keep doing it 😅
There's something about Exo's main vocals; every time they open their mouths, you automatically feel nostalgia, even if it's the first time you've heard the song.
@@WorldifySanityI'm his die hard fan, but sometimes Suho-nim strains and too hard to himself But he is definitely better each year and improved a lot since debut
Man Hyolyn's charisma and vocals are so powerful. Same goes for Taeyeon. No wonder she stays relevant as a solo singer and is among the most popular ones too in Korea
I appreciate you including multiple clips of some of the same singers with different notes to show that even great singers can have off notes sometimes - whether that be just due to their condition at the time, or the song being out of their range, etc.
i love kyungsoo’s voice. he has great technique and such a nice timbre as well. i love listening to his vocal performances especially tell me what is love❤
went into kpop with high expectations because the first group i ever stanned was exo, nobody really has met the standards set by exo (for me) other than like shinee and other very few groups 😭😭
Jongho truly one of the top ones Not only is he talented, he also a very full and nice tone Doesn't sound squeaky, pitchy or thin but actually buttery smooth❤
I appreciate the use of top tier vocalists having not so great belting technique. it really shows how difficult it is and how easy it is to lose structure and precision if not completely focused.
I have to say, for D. O, his vocal runs are a very good key strength in his range and it makes one of the best bridges in every EXO song. It's not emotional w/out D. O. He also happens to be my ultimate bias, too and Sehun is beyond him when it comes to my ultimates. If there was an emotional bridge with D. O's runs and Sehun soft and sophisticated raps, that would just give me chills all over.
I love Sserafim but they really are proof that agencies are trading talent for visuals. HYBE obviously has the resources for proper vocal training, no idea why Kazuha Sakura and Eunchae were allowed to debut with such bad vocals.
Tbh it’s a thing with Hybe vocals the only idol that Carries Hybe vocals is jk I’m not including seventeen or fromis because they weren’t trained by Hybe vocalists like heesung and taehyung have some of the best vocal tones but their technique is gonna butcher it it’s honestly sad because Hybe has some of the worst vocalists and yet people praise them so much
This brings to light how priorities have changed over times. Like literally, nowadays kpop is more focused on visuals and looks rather than actual talent. The best female ranges we have seen in this video stops at 2nd and third gen at most. Nmixx is still capable of breaking these walls. Hope we get the original kpop back
Taeyeon can easily on top of 3rd and 4th gen vocalists, but can you imagine she can rank lower if you compare with other 2nd gen fellows, imagine vocal ranking video of luna, lina, hyolin, Taeyeon, davichi, eunji, etc. Could you make a video of 2nd gen vocalists, male and female could be better, please 🥺
honestly that’s what i loved about 2nd gen the most! they focused so so much more on vocals… nowadays it’s a visual competition, as long as you have a pretty face that’s all you need to become a kpop idol…. literally 80% of new groups need more vocal training
D.O. does have bad days but when he's on, he is ON POINT. I've noticed that he usually only **occasionally** falters when transitioning from a relatively high note (high in his range) to an even higher note (that is also in his range, which he can belt just fine otherwise). It's something he could work on, for sure. ❤
Hyolyn's vocals just give me goosbumps everytime it nice to still see her being included in these list because her vocals have improved over the years. I also love to see idols vocals improve over the years.
I was shocked to see D.O in the "Decent" category, he is a very talented singer with amazing abilities and then I saw Chen in the "Good" category and understood why.. It's hard to beat Chen
Please go back to the beginning of the video. Everything was clearly explained. D.O got a "decent" for this specific performance and note and wasn't put into any category or tier. People can have bad days, can make mistakes and can improve. At the beginning of the video it was said that tier rankings are stupid for a reason.
@@teatimewiththeia Yeah I know. It also compares to the other guys on the same note. I mean it's just rare to find him as a decent person but like you said every singer has a bad day. And also because of the comparison with Chen.
It has nothing to do with beating each other it’s just examples with clips there’s other clips were d.o did that same exact line in love me right that’d be classified as great. You could find clips of all 3 exo main vocalists where their belting would be in the red category it’s all relative to the example used
I like how this video shows that good vocalists may/will make poor vocal decisions, which lead to unpleasant delivery, and that's okay. As vocalists, we're never at our 100% all of the time - and that's perfectly okay. We all have that performance we are proud of, just as we have that one performance that haunts us at night. These mistakes might be due to some breathing miscalculation or the fact that the development of that register/proper technique is still in progress.
All the members of CJSH. They had actually too many powerhouse vocalists. They were a vocal assault. Just a brick wall of vocal talent slamming into you every song. All four of them are insanely good.
It's amazing; whenever the red came on I would flinch on how much it hurt to hear those notes and when the greens would come on I would even get goosebumps. Shows what a diff the good vs the bad techniques make in the listening experience of the song
Same hahahah For me it's when they sound too throaty i guess? When it sounds like they positioned the note in their throat rather than in their mouth. It makes them sound pitchy as hell, and it creates this... dissonance or something? Idk the right term for it
She has but her style constricts her from belting properly. That high note in chill kill was just a C and she really struggled. All other aspects of her voice have improved greatly. Her chest voice and head voice are some of the best in the group
@@maxie_is_well5521It was because the high note was supposed to be sung like that on a close vowel not an open one, however she did struggle with it cause it’s not necessarily the easiest technique specially if she doesn’t have any experience in it.
She has improved, but that note was so strained it was hard to listen to, I believe idols must have some challenges to improve their voices, but not as hard, cause they can damage their voices
@@jeelee3096she is not nasal and sometimes si better to not sing a note if you don't feel confortable doing it or your condición si not the Best so you don't damage your chords
4:32 This is REALLY important. A bad, good, and amazing note can come from the same singer singing the same note in the same song. Being a good vocalist is a matter of consistency rather than cherry-picked moments, and people who take these rankings without knowing/acknowledging so are misinterpreting the point. These are single note comparisons--a single note sung at a specific performance, not a vocal ranking. Is there a chance that the 'great' notes are sung by better vocalists? Yes. Is it always the case? No.
Yep, that’s what I was about to write. Nobody’s perfect, and not every note is going to be hit perfectly in a performance. Ailee and Doyoung are two of the best singers around, and I’ve heard her sound shrill and him hit a clunker or two. I will say that this video helped me better understand how good support goes a long way.
I love Lily's voice so much. Who says that Lily screams and does not sing, just heard a couple of Nmixx songs, she can perform completely different genres. In many covers, she has a very soft and at the same time clear voice. For me, she has the cleanest vocals, after the Pcycho cover, for me she is head and shoulders above the original (my opinion)
Lily has one of the best voice projections of 4th gen, which makes her stand out in a good way. When she sings, you can definitively tell its her voice.
I would enjoy if you included Shinee vocal line in this video, because they are some of my favorite vocalists to listen to, but it would be interesting to know which way you would qualify some of their belts
I think we also need to take into account that sometime vocal is more about expressing your emotions than 100% technic. Like in Hwasa case, sometime she crack her voice on purpose so that she can express the broken or passionate feeling of the song and in those cases it sound so good.
she used to be one of the very well-known vocalists in kpop and really popular when sistar was at the peak of their career, even her osts were hits. she started declining when the new gen era started and her solo wasn't promoted well by her company.
Not really. When you think Hyolyn you think vocals first. Everyone knows her as a top tier vocalist. I think her music is just not everyone's type and not general public friendly (which was Sistars entire thing back then btw.)
Man, the ONLY one I'd change is Kihyun from Monsta X being categorized from decent to great. He belts with full control of his vibrato (adding or removing whenever), his jaw is relaxed, great mouth shape, there isn't any force or strain. I think he's an even better belter than Seungkwan.
Well why do some people in comment section taking this as a hate video or something? Title of the video said its comparison of belting technique, this person said its a comparison and the video did exactly that. You got to watch exactly what was advertised. We also see some artist being examples in all three categories. Its not Targeted hate towards anyone. Also, artists are humans too so they cant be perfect everytime and give the EXACt same performance for nth time so its understandable that there might be errors or changes sometimes and it doesn't take away their talent. So if you are fuming at this then grow up guys
Now THIS IS A BRAVE, UNBIASED CHANNEL! Most "vocal coaches" on RU-vid are terrified of calling out bad vocal techniques, especially done by idols from *certain* groups. Also, as DO was coming out of their cardio workout of a choreography prior to that belt, I'm going to give him a huge pass. Overall, notice how the idols from most of the popular groups now can barely carry a note. Just goes to show that popularity doesn't necessarily mean quality, and KPOP is more about popularity.
As a atiny seeing jongho is so pretty,thank you,he's keep practicing and improving more with the days,he said to atiny he's trying to have a best technique,thank tou for putting jongho here❤
I appreciate seeing the same person with performances represented at different levels of success! Not like "dk is always a green level belter, period" instead, it's more nuanced
The way I end up understanding good technique is if I imitate the singer’s tone, I tend to have better notes (mostly with DK and smooth vocal styles). It’s not full proof by any means and really depends on your voice type, but that’s my experience
EXO vocal line can’t be touched…it’s just Chef’s kiss 😘 I There’s something about SM vocal artists, they really work hard on their vocals, even their rappers & dancers are good at it like Kai (EXO), Taemin (Shinee) etc. I also love ikon & seventeen’s vocal line especially Seungkwan & Ju-ne❤ & they keep on improving. Other than that I guess Hybe artists are good performers & their songs are really nice but their vocals are pretty average or even below average.
this is a great video to show how artists are not machines. most of the "bad" notes here were performed live while dancing, while the good notes were mostly in studio, pre-edited or the song along without dance moves. some artists had both bad and good examples.
I appreciate how some of them appeared multiple times to different performance levels. Helps to establish that even good singers have better and worse days.
