This isn't really a comparison between different price ranges of chocolate, but two different VARIETIES of chocolate. The Lindt is an "eating" chocolate with a composition aimed at creating a smooth and luxurious taste, experience and mouthfeel for CONSUMERS. The Valrhona is a premium couverture chocolate, I'm assuming with a medium fluidity, specifically formulated for PROFESSIONAL APPLICATION in bakery and pâtisserie products. The question is actually: do you need to spend on professional quality couverture or can you use regular "consumer" chocolate in your home bakes? This is where the difference in the spread of the Lindt chunks vs Valrhona fèves and the consistency of the ganache comes into play. Valrhona is known to have a lower percentage of both cocoa butter and sugar. There are different qualities of couverture as well. F.e. in the Callebaut family of products you could use either the premium Callebaut or the lower priced Van Houten. And yes there is a difference in texture and mouthfeel between the two - Callebaut is discernibly more luxurious and smoother than the Van Houten.
@@dinasawlani Same. And my Swiss partner next to me kept screaming "That's not what tempered means!" and "Has he never heard of conching? It's literally Lindt's Thing™️!" 😆. I think I personally wouldn't have even minded that much if it had been approached as just "let's just see how these 2 things behave" - but the utterly uninformed guesses at explanations reeeeeally bugged me.
I would say that if Valhrona is high end chocolate, Lindt is mid range - it's definitely not cheap chocolate. You could do a comparison of Valhrona vs Lindt vs Hershey chunks/chips/bar or even the chocolate pieces you can buy in bulk (in Canada it'd be the Bulk Barn) and see if you can clearly distinguish the difference. As others have said, the size of the pieces going into the bake made the clear difference in the cookies and brownies - the Valhrona pieces were bigger and denser while a Lindt bar is a very thin bar that gets much smaller when you cut it up. If you buy chips/chunks or chocolate wafers in bulk, most people would use them as is.
I can say the mass produced chocolates, Hersheys, Toll House and Ghirardelli, all are a significant downgrade from Lindt. This is I’ve course personal I just used to work the pre made chips and now I use Lindt. I remember the first time I tried it there was enough of a difference that now my mom makes fun of me calling me a chocolate snob. I will have to try Valrhona though
@@mstraction No problem with using those. I did for a long time. It really was just experimenting that changed my cookie recipe. Now I use brown butter nicer chocolate and other upgrades. Let’s be honest chocolate chip cookies are great
I would've loved to see him gag at the "not actually chocolate" Hershey's stuff. Not sure if Alvin grew up in the States, but if he didn't even the smell of Hershey's would be nauseating to him. That would be a proper "cheap chocolate".
The chocolate chips I find here are always more expensive than just chopping up a bar of chocolate, so you can maybe save even more money by buying cheap chocolate bars and chopping them than using chips. Lindt is also out of my price range 😂
The Valrhona 3 kilo (6.6lb) bags go for $100. You are getting a raw deal if you are paying $48/lb. Definitely shop around for a better price. Even on Amazon @ $119 right now, that's $18/lb.
@@baryonicmatter8993 That's what I was thinking too. I'm in the EU and did a price comparison: Lindt 100g bar vs Valrona 3kg bag. It's 12.4 $/lb vs 12.5$/lb.
The shiny top on brownies is achieved by liquifying the sugar in the batter, not from aerating the eggs. There's a common misconception that aerating the batter achieves the shiny top only because whipping the eggs longer with the sugar eventually melts/liquifies the sugar. Your brownies look a bit overmixed like you said as there are tunnels in them. I suggest mixing by hand next time and seeing if that improves your results!
Exactly. Obvious overmixing of the batter. This whole video is based on a convoluted premise - comparing commercial "eating" chocolate to professional quality couverture on the basis of price alone and not composition and application. I would recommend he reads some Paula Figoni - How Baking Works.
It seems like the differences in the cookies and the brownies are potentially down to the shape of the chocolate. More fine shards when you chop the thick chocolate, so it enters the dough (leads to more spreading as it melts), more concentrated pockets of chocolate in the final cookie (which bubble up and spread), thicker chunks in the brownie (leading to the snap as there is more resistance) and so on. It would be nice if you could do a similar comparison for similarly shaped chocolates, and with an actual cheap chocolate (Lindt is already a premium product!), of a similar cocoa content (maybe dark chocolate for Lindt). Then see if there is a difference beyond the flavour differences in the chocolate. Just a few thoughts, I love these videos, and this channel (and love your channel too Alvin!), it would have been nice to try and isolate some more variables. I'm sure the overall conclusions would be the same though!
The Lindt is dark at 70%. the Valrhona was 72% so the difference isn't too much. but since the Lindt is made for eating, I bet they formulated/processed it more to be melt-in-your-mouth.
the pools of chocolate are simply because of the size of the chunks. The more expensive chocolate was chopped more roughly, the lindt block is naturally thinner and when you chop it even more your expensive chunks will be 2x the size of lindt. Also, Lindt is NOT an inexpensive chocolate. It is expensive, just not ridiculously so.
Exactly. Personally I think that in case of Valrona you're just paying a lot more Royalty money . Sure it's better and expensive, a huge portion of that Expensive pricetag just Goes to the Royality Factor . Hence the crazy price .
But you can see the actual corners and edges of the Lindt pieces, as well as pattern from the chocolate bar itself. Lindt didn’t melt, whereas the Vahlrona chocolate pieces didn’t maintain the circular feve shape but melted completely, even bubbling on the surface.
@@delormerr exactly! I was disagreeing with the person who said it was due to the shape of the chunks. It is the cocoa butter percentage (if I'm not mistaken)
I bet the Vahlrona chocolate got more % of cocoa butter, a quality liked by us chocolatiers who make bonbons and chocolate bars. The butter sets up firmer in the fridge and melts faster in the oven. I prefer Felchlin chocolates, also grand cru versions and has a very good policy for farmers and workers. ❤️
Yeah exactly, that's why I often prefer cheaper white/milk chocolate over pure chocolate. The cocoa butter content on cheap chocolate is often so low. And that's actually the good part about chocolate. Cocoa is hit or miss, it can be bitter often even in expensive chocolate. The chocolate which I prefer is really rare, 30-65% cocoa, 30-50% cocoa butter, 20% sugar max. Most pure chocolates have soo much sugar to ofsett the bitterness. And 80%+ pure chocolate is just ridiculous, they often lack cocoa butter.
Hey Alvin, so the thinner consistency in the Araguani is because it's a couverture (coating) chocolate that's used for chocolate work (more cocoa butter, therefore more expensive). Valrhona is also single origin and organic as well. It's also in the "feve"/bean shape to make sure that it melts evenly and properly. As a pastry chef, I only use Valrhona since it's a better couverture than the other brands (CB, Callebaut, etc). And you can taste the difference in Valrhona's chocolate. Give the milk chocolate a try (Jivara versus Bahibe), or their white chocolate a try (opalys versus ivoire) if you get a chance. I hated chocolate for the longest time until I was introduced to Valrhona when I went into the industry. You can't go back once having their chocolate. Btw, since you're based in NYC, try seeing if you can get your chocolate with Baldor. I know they used to have home deliveries during the pandemic. You might be able to get a decent price with that purveyor.
I would love to watch your kitchen vlogs if you ever go that route, but working in the kitchen must keep you busy! I can tell you're very knowledgeable.
actually tempering makes the melting temp higher. tempering doesn't make the chocolate high quality but it does make it a good eating chocolate which is what lindtt is (you dont want your chocolate bar melting in your hands while you're eating it). i'm guessing your extra fancy chocolate isn't tempered so as to be more flexible (you want it to melt easily in some situations)
You definitely should use Lindt dark chocolate made for desserts. The one you are using isn’t a good item for comparaison w/ the Valrhoma, as u said it’s tempered differently ! Plus the dessert one is even cheaper and way better for cooking
what is the name of the lindt chocolate made for desserts? upon googling I saw it said the excellance line which is the one he used so I wasn't sure if there was another king. thank you :D
Hello! Just a note that, much like coffee, the descriptive words on the bag (raisins, chestnuts, etc.) aren't added ingredients or flavors. They're a code for the flavor profile! (Acidity, sweetness, earthiness, etc.) James Hoffman has a great video on this, specifically for coffee, but I believe equally applicable. (Beginners Guide to Buying Great Coffee, skip to "Descriptors" section).
A candy bar VS single origin chocolate are two completely different animals. Additionally, they use different sugars with the valrhona using brown sugar. Combine with the size/structure of the chocolate, hard to objectively compare. Comes down to subjectivity and preferences. Great video nonetheless, definitely need to incorporate more tarts in my life!
Hi Alvin! As others have noted the harder snap from the Valhrona does not have to do with tempering. Why? Because the chocolate is NOT tempered. Appearance alone shows it's untempered (tempered chocolate looks smooth, glossy, not dusty in appearance). The Valhrona you have is untempered couveture chocolate (which usually is how couveture chocolate is shipped in it's raw form, so it can be tempered or melted down for several uses) I'd suspect the texture difference of the Valhrona in your desserts is really the shape and size of the feves you cut them into your desserts. And for the tart, I'd suspect the texture difference is more the components of the chocolate in each of the samples. Valhrona doesn't use any additional cocoa butter in it's feves (therefore making a harder set when it cools again), while Lindt does have additional cocoa butter (which produces a softer melt in your mouth set). I may be wrong through, just doing a quick judgement call based on ingredients. Hope this clarifies some information in the video!
I checked the definition of couverture and sources said it has more cocoa butter than eating chocolate, that's why it's more fluid when warm but harder when crystallized and so is best for dipping.
In addition to what you said, even if the Valrhona WAS tempered, this is irrelevant to the product he makes after he’s melted them both at high temp, undoing any previous tempering
I'd love to see more of these types of videos. Cheap vs Expensive ingredient. Maybe Vanilla next. Store brand pure vanilla extract vs high end vanilla extract/paste
Here’s the takeaway: 1. Desserts that have chocolate in them but a lot of other ingredients like brownies and cakes, I wouldn’t use expensive chocolate. Unless if you’re rich, it wouldn’t be that much of a difference. Lindt is a pretty good brand to use compared to other brands of chocolate on the supermarket. 2. If you’re baking something that has less ingredients and mostly chocolate, yeah, go for a more expensive, better quality chocolate. It doesn’t have to be expensive like Vahlrona. If you don’t have the money, a Lindt bar with a darker percentage, which is more bitter will also work. I do think Valrhona might have a more complex flavor than say a 85 percent Lindt, which is just more bitter than a 70 percent bar. 3. It’s all down to preference. Unless if you’re a chocolate connoisseur and have a delicate taste palate, I don’t think it’s worth it to buy extremely expensive 50 plus dollars worth of chocolate. I would recommend using something like Guittard, it’s good quality, a bit pricier than other brands, but still affordable. If you can’t find it Lindt will also work. It’s still considered expensive and premium chocolate by many people anyways. I also think the taste test should be done more accurately. Maybe call in a few people blind folded to see if there’s much of a difference. That way there is no bias. Also comparing it to variety of other chocolate brands on the market.
i just recommended the Guittard as well and if you want to buy from their company directly, you'll discover hundreds of different chocolates.......Girardelli's milk chocolate is my favorite milk chocolate though.
Something I've noticed about chocolate is that everyone has a preference in quality. Generally, if you grew up with higher quality chocolate, you can't stand lower quality. But those who grew up with lower quality will take whatever. At least, in my experience. So it's really about preference, like you say!
The chocolate tart is almost $50 dollars to make at home with the Valrhona, that's a bit steep. I'd rather use darker Lindt (85-90%) and make two tarts.
Lindt is delicious. I'm not really convinced that the difference would be noticeable in baked goods. I'd like to see some independent blind taste-testing. I suspect there was bias involved in the tasting.
@@loriki8766 My dad uses valrhona in his cooking (well, baking) for a supper club, and I've done blind taste tests with other chocolates over the years. It does taste different, in much the same way that all chocolates taste different. But to get the valrhona flavour, you have to buy valrhona, and it turns out the valrhona flavour is really desireable - it's high quality chocolate produced without cutting any corners. I'm not that hot on dark chocolate, though, so if I was baking for myself I'd never spend four times the money for a better version of something that I'm not over the moon for already. However, valrhona do make another type of chocolate called Caramelia and it's utterly, utterly delicious. I'd not had chocolate that tasted so good before then, and I haven't since. It had that amazing, creamy sweetness which I associate with supermarket high-end chocolate like Lindt or Lindor, but faultless in ways the other two aren't. No noticable oilyness, sweet but not cloying, a caramel flavour that isn't complex simply because it is bitter or 'burnt'. I'd deffinitely pay more for that, especially for a special occasion. All of this is also to say nothing of the fact that Valrhona is ultimately professional-oriented chocolate, where ingridient costs often outstrip those a homecook would face, and also it is important that the chocolate be easy to work with, predictable and consistent, and which enables chefs to get the best results possible (via whatever chocolate chemistry/magic they use). Chefs tend not to be poncy people, and there's a reason this chocolate is seen across lots of the best restaurants in Europe - it isn't simply pretense. Also, diminishing returns on price vs quality is a constant across all kinds of food and when it is worth paying more or less is a relative and subjective distinction, even if we all agree on what it tastes like.
@@fabe61 I'm not doubting Valrhona is far more delicious than Lindt. I only doubting that the average person would be able to detect the difference in baked goods. The video I was hoping to see was one that presented the treats to people who haven't eaten your desserts before in such a way that it was not obvious which chocolate was used - served on identical plates marked "A" and "B" or something. Then they describe what they are tasting and which they like better. I make yummy treats for my family. No matter what else they eat, my treats are my kids favorites and they can differentiate what I make vs what someone else does blindfolded. BUT other families have their treats that they like better than mine. We all have our biases. I can tell you that me and my family know the best way to make cupcakes delicious and that all my friends agree. Of course they do. If my friend I like is giving me yummy treats and we're having a great time together then of course I'm going to find the stuff they're giving me to be the most delicious. I'm a data driven person. SO to prove to people like me that there's a difference in taste, quality, texture, etc... We would enjoy seeing people who haven't enjoyed your treats before do the taste tests without knowing which is which and having someone serve them that doesn't know which is which until after they've rendered their verdict to eliminate unconscious bias.
@@loriki8766 well you might be surprised but even in my country indonesia, people can noticed the different taste of valrhona and cheaper chocolate in baking goods. Only the price that stop people from use it for daily bakings.
There are lower priced couverture brands available such as Van Houten. Same fluidity as the premium brands, not as smooth or luxurious perhaps, but definitely great quality and satisfactory application in baked goods.
This is so funny to me! Where I'm from Lindt chocolate is considered a high end product, it's so expensive! Regardless, watching this made me want some dessert 🤤
The chocolate I use for baking is €0,45 for 100 grams. But honestly I love the flavor. I only use more expansive chocolate for the higher cocoa percentage if I need that (like for brownies or chocolate cake) but even then I try not to go for bars that cost more than €2,00
Yes, here in Brazil that Lindt bar costs around R$25, dependending of the place you are buying ofc It's a lot more expensive than some chocolate bars that cost around R$5 to R$8 (And no, R$25 isn't cheap for us and not everyone can afford that here)
I can't even imagine how much the 48 dollar package must cost here... But since I'm not a huge fan of dark chocolate myself I don't think I would buy that one
I'm Venezuelan, so I grew up eating chocolates made with Venezuelan cacao, and the difference between Venezuelan chocolates and American ones is so different! If I can, I ALWAYS choose to bake with Venezuelan chocolate and cacao, because the flavor is much more complex and not so sugary!
As a long time chocolate lover and chocolate chip cookie baker, i personally believe in using ingredients you love. If you use your favourite chocolate in a cookie, its bound to become your fvaourite cookie! Of course, you may need to adjust for sugar, or other ingredients depending on the sweetness of the chocolate. All in all, if you're going to put in the effort to bake something, use quality ingredients.
"Grand cru de terroir" is an unregulated term that basically means the cacao beans were sourced from a specific region or country. The difference in color between the two cookie doughs before they were baked was probably from the lighting, or some other factor that had nothing to do with the chocolate. The color of the two doughs looked different before the chocolate was even added to the dough. The difference in how the chocolate spread during baking probably has more to do with the size and shape of the chunks put into the dough before baking. The Valrhona chocolate was thicker than the Lindt. It'd be interesting to see the same test using chocolate that was reshaped into identically sized chips.
Good points and I definitely agree on the most part, but I can attest from many a cookie baked that sometimes when chocolate shatters into smaller pieces it definitely does colour my dough a little bit from the melting. So I wouldn't chalk it all up to lighting.
@@andreyrass1393 In this very specific case, we can chalk it up to lighting. Look at timestamp 3:39. The color looks dramatically different between the newly divided dough before the chocolate was mixed in.
I'm not sure if this is also true for brownies also, but cakes and cookies will fall if the eggs are over whipped. Also, now I need a 6lb bag of chocolate in my life. 🤤 ...and look at those PERFECT chocolate chip cookies... That is a man who KNOWS COOKIES!!! 🥛🍪✨
6:00 Adam Ragusea actually had a 2 video essay on what causes that "brownie skin" and its actually caused by the melting/liquifying of the sugars in the batter that causes that to happen. In your case, beating the sugar with the melted butter and eggs help with that process.
Seems to me that both chocolates have a different purpose. Lindt is for when you want a chocolate-fix. Valrhona seems to be for when you want to bake to impress. I suppose you decide what you want to do with your chocolate. 🍫 On the other hand...I read that dark chocolate is good for depression. Now, when you're down in the dumps which would you choose. Jetting to Walmart for some Lindt? Or Venezuela for some Valrhona? 🍫
Week 3 of asking Andrew to cook for his next part in the series of : I cooked 25 pound of... Please use carrots and have your mom make you the carrot cake u have eaten for every year on your birthday and if possible please make 'Gajar ka halwa' which is an idian sweet dish made out of grated carrots, sugar, milk and different spices
Sorry to correct you but the cracks on the surface of the brownies is not from the whipping of the eggs and sugar it the fact you are dissolving the sugar more evenly in the mixture…you can achieve the same cracked top by usuing high fructose corn syrup
I think on the 2nd ganache mixture it cooled too much to mix more smoothly. I would recommend doing them separately because it was another 10 minutes before you started mixing.
I think something being worth it also depends on if you have the money to spare or if it's like the one ingredient that you really care about or just in general you may spend more on groceries if you are really passionate about cooking and it's a hobby for you.
I used to buy Mrs. Fields chips when they were sold in a bag at grocery stores. Her cookie recipe these days are not the same as they were in the 70s and 80s. Then, they were F'g spectaular! Her peanut butter chip/white chunk cookies were something I would drive a long way for. I could cry that none of her recipes are the same. I saw her back in the 90s create her "real" chocolate chip cookie recipe. I remember (more or less) to this day.
I think Mousse au chocolat would have been a great option to test the chocolate as well. Because of the few ingredients you would have been able to really taste the difference.
I always use two to 3 different chocolate brands in my chocolate chip cookie these days. it sorta gives you a different taste each bite and sometimes they combine in your mouth nicely.
It seemed to me that Alvin already made up his mind even before the conclusion as the way he spoke obviously smacked of bias towards the more expensive chocolate. (And as someone pointed out, he can actually get it less expensive per lb.)
It's...it's not.... yeah, okay, so this is one instance where SIZE MATTERS... 1 pound equals 16 ounces... The "$48 chocolate" is $3 per ounce and the "$12 chocolate" is $3.43 per ounce, so.... uh... not to blow up your spot but that makes Lindt the more expensive chocolate. I'm glad this is about taste and not math tho! Love your channel btw! xoxo
@내가 귀엽지 I understand, except here in the US where he bought the chocolate and published the video, the price is much higher than the UK. I’m just going by what he said he paid….
Fun fact! That lindt chocolate in Europe is like 3 dollars.. I'm shocked that it's that expensive over there. It really does not compare. Here is considered supermarket chocolate. Love your content btw :)
Awesome experiment and I find myself enjoying ATE more with every post. Regarding the chocolates, I love how the Valrhona chocolate moves throughout the cookie. I don't get too excited about chocolate, but your video stoked the desire to have some, especially in that cookie form.
I worked at Lindt / Ghirardelli designing packaging and live right behind one of their production facilities (moved here when I got the job) so my house gets the smell of chocolate coming from the facility nearly every morning in the winter.
If you compare the prices by the weight, the difference is really small. I compared it by Euro, but however, at a weight of 500g Lindt is at a Price of 11,45 € and valrhona at a price of 13,72 € and i double it would be a lot of a difference in the USA. I think the only difference is that valrhona is meant for baking and Lindt is not.
I compared the prices of the exact chocolates (also european prices) and ended up with around $12 for Lindt (which makes sense) and $20 for Valrhona. A little more but still far away from $48. Either he got scammed (unlikely though) OR they miscalculated some stuff while using pounds/gramms.
I need a comparison between the super expensive chocolate and like a dove or Hershey's chocolate bar. I've worked with both, and I've found the biggest difference is the fact that cheaper chocolates have more wax in them.
My own experience with making brownies is that "good" chocolate is better used as mixed-in chips. Making chipless brownies with Bakers, Ghirardelli, Lindt, and Scharffen Berger (I always use unsweetened), it's hard to tell the difference.
Hi ok idek if you’d see this but BUT, I did some maths and if you were to buy one pound of Lindt, it would cost the same as the one pound of the other chocolate, I think the differences don’t come with price but what the chocolates are made for, Lindt is made for straight consumption whereas the other seems more to be baked with, that’s just my take at least ^_^
I bought some Vahlrona chocolate after watching this. My daughter commented over & over about the chocolate in the pie I made yesterday. Well worth the price. I also love their cocoa powder.
The difference between the chocolate is like real estate, location, location, location. Lindt chocolate comes from African beans. The other from South American ones. Chocolate that comes from African harvested beans will always be cheaper than anything harvested from any location in the Western hemisphere. The beans are simply not the same quality. They aren't as rich and as strong. They don't even have same flavor profile. Beans harvested from places like Mexico, Uruguay and Columbia will taste sweeter to the point of being tart. While beans harvested from African countries like Ghana will taste less sweet and more...I am not sure how to put it. Not quite savory. But they have tastes like leather and tobacco. Less fruity over all. There's a book called Bean-to-Bar Chocolate: America’s Craft Chocolate Revolution: The Origins, the Makers, and the Mind-Blowing Flavors by Megan Giller that dives deeper into this. It's really worth the read.
Also: Over here in Europe where both chocolates are made the price difference really isn't that high. Found the Valrhona one for a price of about 3€/100g and the one from Lindt for 2,3€/100g.
Great video. Been meaning to make chocolate desserts like chocolate chip cookies, brownies, and French chocolate silk pie, hence grappling with the same question as to whether go with high-end quality chocolate or regular. This was a great video of side-by-side comparison with controlled conditions Alvin. Thank you so much!
I'm not a professional, but I think the fact that there is a textural difference between desserts made from the two chocolates is probably due to the cocoa mass to cocoa butter ratio. Valrhona, or couverture chocolate in general has more of the cocoa butter, which sets up harder than regular chocolates like Lindt. After chocolate met the heat, it has already lost its temper so you can't really taste the temper in the final baked goods at all.
Hey Alvin, using the cylindrical handle of your spatula or something plastic/metal will eliminate nearly all air bubbles. Can’t wait to bake these too !
It would be good to do the initial taste test blind so you don't know which you are having, so you don't unconsciously skew the results. A budget dark chocolate would be good as a comparison as well.
Honestly, and not to get super serious, I care the most about their sourcing. If it’s ethically sourced, I don’t care if it tastes not exemplary, I care the most if it’s ethically sourced. Sorry if I sound like a buzzkill, I just care a lot.
Alvin, you should've made a combo cookie...... Lindt+Valrhona chunks, together, in the same cookie dough. Flavor complexity and aromatic oomph from the Valrhona... sweetness and texture contrast from the Lindt. Well... I mean, since you happen to have both on hand.