Barn find vs Top of the line! Stihl Ms400c vs Stihl 044 

Old school for me. Because I’m old and so are my saws. Lol I bought em new in the 90’s. Still using em.

I bought two 044s in the early '90s, while logging at the family ranch in Montana. I used them both until 2000, then started using them again from 2010 to 2017. Both saws still start and run as they should; neither saw has ever been back to a saw shop for repairs. I still have the saws with 28 inch bars on them and lots of extra bars and chains, ready to go. I think the 044 is about as good as it gets for a mid-sized saw with great chain speed. Cheers.

044 is a legendary saw

Just bought a 400 last week. I really like this saw. What sets this saw apart from others is how smooth it runs as well as lack of weight. It’s not all about numbers. With that said, I might be sending it to Joe soon for porting.

I bought a Stihl 440 new in 2007. I have the original sales slip and could sell the 440 for about what I paid for it. The 409c stock specs nearly the same as a 440. I used the 440 tree farming, commercial logging, firewood ...you name it. I am cutting firewood with it daily. 440 is a legend and worth every penny. Maybe keep running 440 and get a 462 too. Update my ms250 to a 261. I have a Stihl 192c rear handle prune saw for branches.

Hard to beat a good ol' 044.

I like the old, and newer up to 2000s. Not a huge fan of the new electronic saws but do plan to maybe pick up a 661cm. Great video.

I like them borh👍👍um a fan of old busted up saws 😃

Old school. I like it. New stuff is nice but old and reliable is nicer.

Nice work and explanation. Makes it more clear to understand what's going on with the power band.

044 all day. I'm not a weight weenie so give me pre EPA porting, carbs and top cover's that make sense.

I really didn’t expect them to be that close. Kudos to you Joe on the porting gains. I have to say I’m surprised you shifted the exhaust lower on the 400 - I initially expected you to favour RPM over compression (not sure why, just kind of assumed the 400 would be a screamer with it’s lightweight piston and strato design 🤷🏼‍♂️). I learned something today that I look forward to considering on future builds of my own - thanks for sharing 🙏🏻 As always, you are a scholar and a gentleman.

Great video man.. I’ll keep my 400 even tho I’m a firm believer that the 044 is one of the best saws ever made. The 400 as a work saw is super lightweight and ergonomic. Thanks for sharing and putting the work in to make them 👍

I recently took an 064 in to stihl to price a new piston and cylinder, the saw had no compression thanks to a neighbor who I made the mistake of letting him borrow it. The stihl rep was there that day and I asked if I would be better off buying a new similar saw or rebuilding the 064. Stihl stood there and said rebuild the old saw, you’ll be better off! the rebuild was 800, a new saw would have been 1400 or so.

I'd like to have seen the stock 044 #'s too. Pretty sure 044 stock would have been solid. Too bad the 044 didn't have a decent air filter on it for that test. Good to see you can give the 400 some torque with the right porting 😉

Man they're close..... I thought 044 would've taken the cake, nice work as always

the old 029, O36 and O44 saws were stone Axe reliable. The O29 was the best handling all day'r firewood saw for up to 10" you could ever ask. I stihl have my O36 which works great but will now be my back up saw to the new MS400 i just picked up. high volume oiler to be installed shortly. A wood burning stove and a reliable means to harvest firewood is the basis for being prepared

Yeah I’d go with the 400c I use a lil hot rod 362c everyday and it out works every saw in the woods. Cool video Thankyou.

For an all day work saw the 400 looks like it's a winner

I bought a 400 and absolutely love it. it seems to have good torque and revs out very smoothly and is light.

Man I run 044 right now it’s a great saw I picked up demoing a bath and the lady gave it to me. I had no idea that saw was so amazing at the time. It has never had anything done to it including fuel lines it’s all original and starts and cuts amazing

Great video, interesting numbers… didn’t expect the 044 to match the 400 for HP and Torque. I’d choose the 400 for the lighter weight, modern AV and wider Mtronic power band. No harm in having an 044 near hand as an occasional back-up, wouldn’t throw it out.

I firmly believe they dont build anything like it once was done, but boy, that new-fangled thing looks great! Enjoy your content. Thx

To bad you couldn't get your hands on arguably the best saw stihl has ever made 044 with the sought after 10mm wrist pin.Torque and power to weight ratio were amazing.

Great video joe. I think the win goes to the new kid. Like you said that broad usable power range would be nice in a strong work saw. Plus the lighter weight would help too. Both great builds though. 😎👍

I love the "new gadgets".. but for me I'll take a healthy 044,440 3/4r wrap saw all day over a 400c. Coming from a guy who loves his 462.. Great video Joe

Thanks so much for the 044 porting numbers Joe! I will adapt my work saw accordingly. Would you mind sharing your woods port numbers for an 026? Would be very much appreciated! Thanks so much 👍

Nice work! I like them both, but the 400 for me! Creature comforts and well over a pound lighter? I’ll bring a 400 home eventually. Thanks for your time Joe.

Interesting comparison.

Thanks for another awesome video/comparison. Tried and true vs shiny and new? I’ll take one of each! Best Answer 😝

No replacement for displacement. As for which saw I like best, I can't pick one or the other. I like them all ! Some may say I have a problem.

I ran a 044 years ago but vibrations are brutal compared to newer saws.

Sweet saws both of em great job buddy!!

Like this video thank you I like the older saws.

Nice no nonsense work on that 400 and while I love the old saws, the lighter and better vibration damped saw is a winner for me. Ive been running a 362 for awhile now, and been really happy with it. Only thing Ive done with mine is a WCS muffler and air filter which really woke it up, and swapped to a 25" light bar with a half skip chain.

A spur sprocket on the 044? Didn't know they made them for it.

044 has proved itself in battle even if a fuzz heavier than 400c. Not a big fan of the 400c little side cover even though it has captive nuts. M-tronic system has electric components that could potentially fail. So it's a win for the 044 old-school

You turned a 400c into 500i but 2 pounds lighter . Awesome man. I'll send you my 400c one day when I can do without for a while.

Wow didn’t expect to see them that close. Great video! I’d take the 044. As a mechanic not a fan of taking my stuff to a dealer to have a code ran if the saw is acting up and everything mechanical checks out.

It would be interesting to see that 400 with more intake timing. I ported mine so the intake opens at 85 or 170 duration. Also opened the strato intake into the main intake as well. Exhaust is 100 with a base gasket delete and i did some lower transfer work but didn't cut out the cylinder on the exhaust side like you did. My 400 pulls a 28 inch bar almost as good as a stock 462. I think ill try cutting out some of the cylinder by the lower transfers soon!

I really enjoyed the way you do your videos thanks

Thanks for this demo.

Awesome work and video!

Guess i will hang onto my old 042, thanks

How much did you that off the base of the 044

Just came over from buckins channel and man this was my first video and you shocked me with this one! 044 is my favorite saw and it’s shocking to see that the 400 is pretty much the same! Love the content bud keep it up!

Hey brother love your videos. I would go with the ms400c it’s lighter, I broke my back 12 years ago falling timber and when I can save weight on my saws and produce as much power as a heavy saw . I’ve got both saws and I never use my 044 anymore and hardly use my ms461 anymore since I got my ms400c and modified it, it’s an absolutely great saw for it’s weight class

good morning! would love to get this done to my ms-400c,please let me know if this is of interest to you,allan,usmc.

Still like my 036.

The magnesium piston is a game changer.

Recently got a ms400 and it’s amazing, got it with a 20&16in bars, running it a lot with the 16in for smaller stuff and it rips right on thru it, but also use it on the bigger stuff.

O44 for me, but I don't have to make a living on a saw. If I claimed all my tools and changed saws every couple of years you would go 400.

My older 044 was a beat of a saw hard to beat that power of that old girl I’m older now and much prefer a smaller saw seem to work good for me

I still appreciate the older Non EPA saws and with any luck my rithmatic with make my early model 044 a success once done. Appreciate your work and help Joe. Thank you

Do u touch the stratos when porting m tronic saws?

I prefer old school 044 all day.

Well should have known the 044 was going to beat out the 400 even though I picked the 400 to win, was very close though so for the less weight and in my opinion better handling saw I still would pick the 400 to work every day with.

Old school for me.

Phewww nice gains

Out here in the big timber country of the pacific northwest 44stihl dominated the woods

Actually, prefer my 10mm over the 12mm, I will take a light weight ported 261 over the 400.

I like new, trying to decide on a 362c or this 400. Mainly for personal use cutting big oak on property

So out of curiosity I copied your 395 recipe. I have typically taken a bit more material than you are and run a bit more blow down but I love your dyno information and its proven a few things to be pure myth. So anyway I build this 395 to see if it goes better than mine. Yep it did. It had more snap off the bottom and more midrange, I think mine has a bit more top end but I prefer your port job. You do bloody nice work Joe and having a dyno is the only way you can developed saw as you do. I'd like to thank you for saving me several hours grinding. I have also been cutting the muffler inlet bigger on my CNC and matching the cylinder outlet to it, this is a fair bit of work and I'm not sure it's even worth it watching your dyno results. My only criticism would be that your videos give the impression this is pretty easy to do and happens quickly but I know full well how much effort your are putting into this off camera. I'm sure plenty of us appreciate you taking the time to make this channel. PS I've just brought a 592 so I look forward to you porting one of them.

Is the dip in the power due to the muffler geometry?

I have a 400 and was wondering how do I send it to you for the same thing?

I didn’t know saw mods were a thing. How do you find a local shop to do work like this. Really cool video even though I’m not exactly sure what the mods were. 2 cycle timing is dictated by port location?

#Oldschool😎🤙🏻

Thanks fo the video. Congratulations on the 044 barn find! Stock the 400 has not impressed, I am looking forward to running a ported one. It is interesting to see how close your 400 build matches a stock 500i in fact a little more horsepower. It would be great to see another dyno run on the 400 after it is broke in, I wouldn't be surprised to see the torque above 4.0. This build is going to make for a nice work saw for sure, especially for those that prefer to fell with a 20" or 24" light bar. I wish Stihl would sell them with the wrap handle, large side cover, better spikes, and a high output oil pump. It sours the deal when you have to pay $$$$ for a kit and mod the oil pump. What was the squish on that 400 stock and with the base gasket delete?

It would be the 400c for me. I would actually buy one but I already have a MS391 and a MS 500i but I do love the 400c because of its light weight. 😊👍🏿

I have an original all metal 041 AV that’s an absolute beast none of that plastic kid stuff😂 I’d like to see one on the dyno someday. It rips harder then my 372xp does and it’s no slouch.

I can save a pound and it’ll work anywhere, anytime with little fuss? Sign me up for the 400.

I gotta go old school!

I have a dirty old stock 044 and an XS400c. I use the 400 more. It annihilates logs.

I want that done to my 400. I will be contacting you.

Ill take a $100 find any day of the week.

Im not a huge fan of the 400. seams like its a saw that didnt need to be made. if you didnt want a 362 why not just buy a 462 or a 500i... I would absolutely chose either of those over the 400.. Yea I guess they cost a little bit more but if you dont have the scratch for a 462 getting the 362 is just fine I guess. Now that the 362 is almost 1000 to me its a MEH saw at that price. I would take a 462 to me its on another level of power over the 362 if thats your goal is to cut. paying 200 whatever more is an obvious choice to me. But not everyone needs a power house I guess.

Do you try to improve upon these numbers ever or just stick with them?

theres no school like old school

I’ll take the old school 044 everytime over the 400c … 400c IS a nice saw but will it be around 20,30yrs from now? With the strato port controlled air-leak engine design imho no way

I"ll take the old.

Old school all the way how much do you want for that old O44

new one have old one.

I hate those new fuel caps Stilhl uses.

First and foremost is cost, parts for an 044 are all over the place with the 400c your stuck going to the dealers, i absolutely hate being beholden to the fricken dealerships period.

The new smog saws aren't designed to make power,they are designed to run hot,burn clean,and not emit hydrocarbons

Anti vibe is what I looks for nowadays.

wtf is a steal

It's only a win for the Stihl engineers who have been paid to achieve nothing for the last 25 years.

044 or nothing