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Bart Ehrman on Problem of Suffering - UCB

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Institute of International Studies, Regents of the University of California at Berkeley "Conversations with History" host Harry Kreisler welcomed biblical scholar Bart Ehrman on a show titled "Biblical Insights into the Problem of Suffering" April 17th, 2008. The appearance was largely due to Bart's book release at the time, "God's Problem: How the Bible Fails to Answer Our Most Important Question -- Why We Suffer."
Harry shapes a discussion exploring Bart's intellectual odyssey focused on how the Bible explains the problem of human suffering. The conversation includes a discussion of the challenges of biblical interpretation when confronting this age old problem of the human condition. Included are topics such as the contribution of the prophets, a comparison of the old and new testaments, the book of Job, and the emergence of apocalyptic writers. The best quality of this video here seen was rendered from a VHS copy.
Program discussed on Bart Ehrman's Foundation Blog: ehrmanblog.org/...
Bart D. Ehrman is the James A. Gray Distinguished Professor at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. He came to UNC in 1988, after four years of teaching at Rutgers University. At UNC he has served as both the Director of Graduate Studies and the Chair of the Department of Religious Studies. A graduate of Wheaton College (Illinois), Professor Ehrman received both his Masters of Divinity and Ph.D. from Princeton Theological Seminary, where his 1985 doctoral dissertation was awarded magna cum laude.
Harry Kreisler is the creator, executive producer and host of the Conversations with History series. Conceived in 1982 by Mr. Kreisler as a way to capture and preserve through conversation and technology the intellectual ferment of our times, Conversations with History includes over 500 interviews. Harry Kreisler was the Executive Director of the Institute of International Studies at the University of California at Berkeley (1974-2014). In that role, he shaped, administers, and implements interdisciplinary academic and public affairs programs that analyze global issues.
Copyright © Bart D. Ehrman and Regents of the University of California at Berkeley "Conversations with History". All Rights Reserved. Unauthorized use, re-posting and/or duplication of this media without express and written permission from Bart D. Ehrman and Regents of the University of California at Berkeley "Conversations with History" is strictly prohibited.
Harry Kreisler - Conversations with History - Problem of Suffering - Bart Ehrman - Christianity - New Testament - Atheist - Agnostic - Mythicist

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25 авг 2024

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Комментарии : 126

@johanericsson2403 4 года назад

When you hear music that terrible, you know it's going to be an intellectually stimulating conversation.

@davemagaldadze 9 лет назад

I have learned about Christianity more from Bart Ehrman than from anybody else, including Christians. Thank you for educating us, Bart

@nafetitive4721 9 лет назад

dave magaldadze Same here. I could have saved at least 15 years of searching for information on the Origins and History of Christianity and the bible, if only I'd had Professor Ehrman's books.

@sassysandygirl 4 года назад

Agree 100%

@Chad-xs2de 4 года назад

@@nafetitive4721 Same here.

@AkoSiFrance 3 года назад

He deconverted me. ^_^ Five years ago. Oh wow, your comment was five years ago. LOL

@randywright3148 8 лет назад

This guy has changed my life and I am so thankful I found him.

@ancientsoul5608 7 лет назад

Randy Wright Me too. In 2009-2010 I found his books and they were absolutely instrumental in helping me break the bonds of religion. Now I am a VERY VERY HAPPY secular individual!

@70AD-user45 5 лет назад

You were never a real Christian in the first place if Ehrman is your new saviour. Pathetic!

@chewyjello1 4 года назад

@@70AD-user45 A person who calls a complete stranger pathetic for letting someone on RU-vid know they appreciate them...well that's pretty pathetic. It's people like you that are driving people away from Christianity in droves. What is it the Bible says about people who are stumbling blocks?

@dangunn6961 4 года назад

@@70AD-user45 You mean he was never completely brainwashed like you are.

@rabbitm.1076 4 года назад

@@70AD-user45 way to show the loving spirit of Christianity!

@laurencewaring8039 5 лет назад

I’ve watched a lot of Bart’s videos and what strikes me the most is how he says what he does in a way that still respects people who have ‘the faith’. The most disrespectful thing around him are his critics.

@prisonss 6 лет назад

Bart is second to none when it comes to understanding the bible...he is transparent, honest and decent...I for one will continue to read his books and listen to him on you tube.👍👍

@ancientsoul5608 7 лет назад

Bart, I don't know if you'll see this, but in 2009-2010 I found your books and upon reading (Misquoting Jesus was a big one for me), your work became an instrumental tool in helping me remove the "shackles" of religion from my life. (You're one of my "secular heroes"). Thank you very much for your contributions to this subject and continue your awesome work!

@kihntagious 3 года назад

I just found him in the last two years. He has opened my eyes and given me hope. And he's so humble.

@dougfraser77 3 года назад

The first 30 seconds was some of the greatest music ever created by mankind

@dougfraser77 3 года назад

The last 30 seconds is also pretty awesome

@grantlauzon5237 4 года назад

That intro is something to behold. It sounds like a retro video game opening.

@diedertspijkerboer 5 лет назад

I agree with Bart Ehrman that it is emotionally hard to let go of religion, but at the same time it is easy. I gradually discovered that going to church had no meaning to me and after that thought about the science and logic behind the Bible stories and behind Christian dogma. After examining Christianity rationally, it was very much the discovery of an emperor with no clothes. It would have been dishonest not to leave Christianity.

@jonahconner1111 9 лет назад

If everyone knew the facts behind Christianity to the extent that professor Ehrman does, I think there would be far fewer believers.

@AWikkedMoon 4 года назад

He doesn't really know. He only translated. He is not a Gnostic and does not claim to be.

@angelavenerando5110 3 года назад

This guy is amazing you can learn so much from him

@archange1l 4 года назад

Imagine thinking that this production was enhanced by playing Atari harpsichord music to kick it off.

@stussysinglet 3 года назад

Suffering and pain more explicitly extreeme suffering and pain is by the far the most problematic issue for me trying to make sense of and trying to justify all of existence... I hope all will escape such pain eventually and that somehow there was a reason for all of it that I can't quite understand at this point

@blacksabbath1022 3 года назад

Every second of every minute of every day there is immense suffering going on 1000x. Every organism in the animal kingdom experiencing tremendous agony. Just the thought of this reality is hard to shake. I honestly don't find the highs of life and procreation worth it. It's not an equal trade off no matter how hard I try to splice the pros and cons. In a lot of these cases death is preferable.

@stussysinglet 3 года назад

@@blacksabbath1022Firstly from someone else who sees how bad life can be I'm sorry that you also experience this burden. I will say we don't know the bigger picture for sure and that we are limited to our own personal perception. There is evidence and ideas that much of the worst suffering may not even be experienced because consciousness may disconnect from the body especially when it comes close to death. Although animals suffer, because of their perspective and how they prosess suffering it may not be anything near the pain the humans experience. Existence on earth is horrific for a large part but it could be a case that it is a cost that is worth if we could understand why. We live in a world of seperation experiencing the duality of pain and pleasure giving us the ability to learn, grow and have endless numbers of different experiences which can be beautiful or dreadful. It may very well be that for true purpose, meaning and true love to exist that the this world has to be this way. It may also be a case that outside this lifetime there is no pain or suffering and overall existence is much better than what it seems. These are not things I can know either way but it may be nieve to look at reality in such a pessimistic way when we don't have all the facts. I wish you happiness and peace my friend.

@constantinetheodosius4500 3 года назад

What we need in this world is not rhetoric or charisma but the truth. I wish all Christians: fundamentalists, conservative s and liberals would come out as plain as Bart Ehrman and teach the truth about their religion based on the historical account so that when we know they make the same sort of historical analysis, we could say this is the truth. But what I see fundamental and conservative Christians are doing IS covering the truth and Bart is digging it up. I love Bart Ehrman sincerely for the truth that he is sharing with the world. I have found that the greatest and most terrible lie ever told by humanity is Religion.

@rruss81 4 года назад

Insightful and informative

@aries5534 4 года назад

Christianity is not a religion it's a business

@IstillHeartMyPrivacy 4 года назад

@Bart D. Ehrman you put your finger right on the problem I've always had with the story of Job - that God was using Job to settle a bet with Satan. I've always thought that was a very vain reason to squash a man, and yes, I too would be offended with having murdered children replaced with new ones. It also seems terribly dishonest of God to not explain to Job that he made him suffer just so God could settle a bet - a bet he made with one of his creations (Satan), no less!

@mmmnuts5645 4 года назад

I am jealous of the students that take Professor Ehrman's course at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill

@Justinsatiable 5 лет назад

Love Bart but we need to debate that sweater

@jvh73 4 года назад

2007 I believe. :)

@UnimatrixOne 4 года назад

@@jvh73 loocking at the interviewer, it could be 1960 :)

@jefflewis6626 7 лет назад

An Excellent Interview. Accompanied by some funky Synthesiser 😎

@ancientsoul5608 7 лет назад

Jeff Lewis gotta love the synth

@laguanhayes214 6 лет назад

What happens to a prophecy after it has been recycled one time or a dozen?

@UnimatrixOne 4 года назад

28:39 That´s the POINT, Dr. Ehrman, that is the true point why we all suffer! Mankind said: "We will make our own rules and we will be good." (1.Mose 3,5) And God said: "Ok, go on. Show me!" And in this time, the time to proof who is right, we live!

@brucemaddox5696 4 года назад

True!

@Tom-rg2ex 4 года назад

It sounds absolutely insane to me to think that human beings suffer through murder, rape, theft, and sickness all because of a magic apple. All the horrors and suffering of the world because a fruit was off-limits? That just feels like such a childlike perspective.

@markmeyers7184 4 года назад

if God were true, it would mean that it would have the psyche of a serial killer.

@IstillHeartMyPrivacy 4 года назад

@UnimatrixOne the Mormon Bible is of even more dubious origin than the Protestant Bible. Joseph Smith is a well-documented fraud, so quoting his ramblings isn't exactly a convincing proof of anything other than the fact that humans are deeply flawed. If you'd bothered to listen a little bit longer, you'd have heard Dr. Ehrman say that the problem of why the righteous suffer is a counterargument to the idea that suffering exists because we sin.

@IstillHeartMyPrivacy 4 года назад

@@Tom-rg2ex Exactly. Let me put a cool new toy in front of my kids and tell them not to touch it, then walk away. And when they touch it, I'm going to burn them and their offspring in hell for all of eternity. When they've been burning for a trillion years, their suffering will have only just begun. What kind of psycho would concoct such an evil scenario?

@markloveless1001 3 года назад

The presenter, Harry Kreisler, seems so familiar, but I can't think of a context where I would know that. I associate him with Chicago for some reason. Possibly his accent, which strikes me as middle Illinois.

@jermainerace4156 4 года назад

"..Our Most Important Question -- Why We Suffer" This is an essentially human-centric proposition, but why would humans be at the center if God is indeed God?

@jdewit8148 3 года назад

I get the feeling that Bart is more into Gnosticism as an answer, than orthodox theology.

@tviswatchingu 5 лет назад

Mathew 18: 6-7 I would like to hear Bart Ehrman interpret these verses.

@billyhw5492 4 года назад

I find it fascinating that Bart Ehrman rejects the existence of God not for intellectual reasons, but for emotional reasons.

@Chad-xs2de 4 года назад

Read the book and you'll know he does it for intellectual reasons.

@noahw8652 4 года назад

could you elaborate? I don't follow. thx

@charlesatty 4 года назад

Perhaps the millions of suffering humans would question loving and just deity comment. Certainly a statement made does not make it true. If the flood was real how is drowning babies living or just. The horrors done to the concentration camps victims , allowed to happen could be argued neither love or just. Can’t have it both ways the good is always from this ancient mountain deity & maintain it intervenes but sets with arms crossed as tens of millions have died with pain & suffering. By the way simple iron chariots can stand up to this deity...by the way for Jesus types if he be deity from beginning he got defeated too & also was involved in drowning babies. Hardly love. I do object to Bart being to easy on the believers of nonsense. But understand he has friends who are followers in the human sacrifice system of incantations & rituals & thousands of one true way.

@tprambu 3 года назад

About the Bible not giving an answer for the question of suffering. I think it does, but in a more dragged out way, not in one book. But I do have to say that most theologians keep missing the point. Here's my take on Job after years of struggling over this issue: Job (his life, ministry and greater purpose) was all a part of God's on-going revelation and working, God's redemptive work with human kind. Job as well as few other characters in the OT opens up this key issue that all experience, the Question of "human suffering". This was an issue that most eastern thinkers and philosophers dwelt on. From Job's friends to King Solomon to some disciples of Jesus raised this question. King Solomon, Gautama Buddha and many eastern philosophers researched and constructed their philosophies around their experience on it... But instead of comprehensively answering the question in one book, the book of Job brings up the question and leaves it open, as for the rest of the bible (God's revelation) to bring about the fuller understanding. I heard a preacher that I admire once say, "Job is the question, Jesus is the answer!". How very true! If we dwell in the OT books alone we cannot find complete answers, often we find what the OT people experienced was a foretaste of God's coming true solution (His promise), just like a staircase leading upward that keeps getting clearer each season and along the generations leading to revealing of Christ. There are many issues such as suffering in the book of Job, "human sin" in OT prophetic books , "wickedness associated with pagan idolatry and human governments" throughout the OT. God is revealing to us through human experiences in the OT the necessity for a redeemer. Similar to OT animal sacrifices and the blood of animals that wasn't a permanent solution. But the sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross was the ultimate solution for every human malady. The power of sin, death, injustice and hopelessness (hell) is destroyed by Christ's cross, burial and resurrection and the keys of death and hell are retrieved by him. So, when Christ rules there will be genuine peace and good on earth.

@ceesvegh4904 6 лет назад

Good point: O.T Joseph = NT Jesus

@r00kiepilot 3 года назад

My take on the 'problem' of suffering is this. If there is a existence after death, then this existence here is not heaven, it is very temporary, and compared to a eternal existence is essentially no time at all, so it doesn't matter. This existence is not heaven, and not your only existence, therefore it is not so terrible if 'bad' things happen to you here. If you think this is your only existence I can see that 'bad' things that happen to you here might be a problem. Also, even here people forget terrible events quite quickly, time heals things, and eternal time may heal perfectly? Another point is that this is our testing ground. Because we are being tested here, naturally testing involves difficult events. It doesn't mean we have sinned, in fact some expect the most faithful people to be tested the most, and have the toughest life. People who are having a great time here should be the most worried. A third point already made in the video, most of the terrible suffering here is caused by other people. That is because people have free will, and also precisely because people believe this is their only life so they are desperate, in a sort of 'gold-rush' to make the most of it, even at the expense of other people. If people believed that this is a testing ground, and believed and were fearful of God, perhaps they would do less bad things to each other. Now people can believe in a 'wrong' way and still do bad things to each other, and there is historical evidence for this. The suffering that comes from nature is rather rare and not nearly as terrible as the suffering that people cause to each other. A final point, if some 'suffering' comes from nature, for example you are hit by a meteor, these 'chance' events have to happen. If no 'bad' accidental things happen people would become suspicious and it would not be a good testing ground it would be apparent to everyone that God exists. Think of it like the matrix, it doesn't matter what happens to you here if this is just your temporary 'avatar' and your real permanent existence is somewhere else. No 'real' harm is done to you. Just some thoughts

@jennifer97363 3 года назад

More of the same. I am dumbfounded that otherwise intelligent people rationalize belief in this ‘explanation’ of suffering. You make large proclamations here, very large. Some people actually don’t ‘get over’ suffering. Many in fact. A broken leg doesn’t compare with seeing your four-year old child butchered in front of you. I would love to have your thoughts on the endless suffering of animals, who are not thought to be self-aware. They certainly haven’t sinned as supposedly the state the rest of us are born into,thanks to Adam and Eve. Why do animals suffer? To what end? An omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent creator couldn’t have created a world with no suffering? Some suffering? The cruelty and degree of suffering of all living creatures is beyond comprehension. Suffering, in part, absolutely clinches it for me that this entity does not exist. If it does- it is either not omnipotent/ can’t prevent suffering,or is a sadistic game-player, enjoying the suffering of his precious creation. The ‘testing us’ theory or necessity of suffering to atone for the original sin rings very, very hollow. Free will of man causing some of the suffering? We look again to the omnipotent god who created that free will, and as omniscient, knows exactly how and when we will sin and suffer, and for some odd reason, causes it to happen anyway. It hurts him more? Please! Christians cannot explain suffering without sounding perplexingly masochistic.

@brokenrecord3523 3 года назад

With great power comes great responsibility. I wonder how Bart deals with the number of people he's led down his path only to change direction and they keep going straight. It's like that lead lemming all of the sudden changing his mind. (I know lemmings don't all jump off cliffs - It's a simile)

@tviswatchingu 5 лет назад

The starving and wars are not caused by God they are caused by US and we will answer for that before a Loving and just God. What have you done to relieve these problems Bart

@jaredrussell9062 4 года назад

He has a subscription based blog where he talks about all kinds of biblical issue and the proceeds go to charity. You can find it at Ehrmanblog.org

@markmeyers7184 4 года назад

why are you threatened by facts?

@tannersump5422 3 года назад

I'm an agnostic atheist but still believe in supernatural

@dah8914 4 года назад

Make no mistake I know for a fact christianity is not the problem it has a common denominator called love your neighbor approach and not many like too be good and honorable. The problem is God is wiser than the fool who try's to explain him away.

@gdobie1west988 4 года назад

Feel free to provide proof that God exists, and the bible doesn't do it.

@foghornleghorn8536 4 года назад

Make no mistake I know for a fact christianity is not the problem it has a common denominator called *judge* your neighbor Edited your comment for accuracy..

@theinkbrain 8 лет назад

The whole interview was off-topic.

@leighedwards 6 лет назад

I think you watched a different video to me!

@lovelyjubbly7456 6 лет назад

How so?

@noahw8652 4 года назад

nothing on suffering or you didn't like the answer?

@billyhw5492 4 года назад

Bart Ehrman's arrogance in the last 10 minutes is simply astounding.

@noahw8652 4 года назад

because you don't agree or?

@ntsakorikhotso1753 5 лет назад

I feel sad for u

@fourthwind7826 9 лет назад

why confuse yourself with all your researches, read the bible and understand the heart of God. repent and return to Jesus, God will strongly punish those who scatter His sheep. aren't you afraid of walking in darkness with no light to guide you? How would you have known about God if it wasn't for the bible? what you can hide from men you cannot hide from God; He knows the heart of all men.

@tcironbear21 9 лет назад

Samuel Tshiek The reason this important to know is for three reason revealed by his research. 1) There is evidence of lots of verisions of the Bible in early Christianity2) There is evidence that these people who followed the heretical books were sincere believers and claimed divine inspiration also.3) God has done nothing to stop these verision of the Bible from spreading and it is claimed that he does not stop evil because he does not want to deny free will. Basically God does not protect the Bible. Given all these facts it is clear that you could be using the wrong Bible as a basis of your faith and you need to develop a method of determining which ones are correct. God is not going to protect you from encountering wrong teachings and suffering from delusions. The wrong Bibles are at the very least a test of your devotion to God.

@fourthwind7826 9 лет назад

TC Coltharp do you even believe in God? don't you know that He reveals Himself to people who truly seek Him? what you can hide from men, you cannot hide from God; He knows the heart of all men. the new versions contain many verses that have been removed. The catholic douay rheims bible is the oldest having no verses removed but has 8 more books than the King James bible. Those 8 books were not included in KJ bible because they were not considered canonical. If you want my advice, I will tell you that the King James bible is more preferable than the rest because newer versions contain words made too easy that shorten understanding and they also have many important words missing. The reason why newer versions were made was because of the old english used in the King James bible. However, I believe many people can still be saved by reading the newer versions because they contain the essentials. Jesus said that the earth will pass away but His word will remain forever.

@tcironbear21 9 лет назад

Samuel Tshiek I personally am a deist. I believe that a deity is possible, but I have never ran into viable god claim. Most god claims I have ran into seem somewhat reasonable, but it is the messenger claims that are always attached to them that blow it up. If the messenger claims are to be believed, god always calls collect. :-) It is then that I realize that all these god/messenger claims are ultimately about glorifying and providing for the messenger. If you are ultimately getting your knowledge about "God" directly from him and you are not surrendering your free will to a messenger, and that information leads to you being good person then more power to you. When you god give you some supernatural powers to prove he is legit, then I want to hear about it.

@fourthwind7826 9 лет назад

TC Coltharp If you do believe in a God, do you think He is mute? will you ignorantly affirm that He has not let anything for His creation? God made this world and He makes the rules. God sent His son Jesus to die for us so we can be saved through Him. If you truly seek God and want to understand His heart, please do not listen from men but read the bible for yourself so you are not deceived. Jesus is even mentioned in the muslim's quran; Jesus is mentioned 25 times when mohammed is mentioned only 4 times. one thing to be sure of is that after death, there is no more hope. It all happens here on earth; you can look with your own eyes in this world and see how many people truly love God. Jesus said broad is the way that leads to hell and many follow it, but narrow is the path that leads to the Kingdom of God.