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NC Bookwatch: Lost Christianities

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Bart D. Ehrman was guest on North Carolina Bookwatch hosted by D.G. Martin. The program that was aired on WHYY 08/29/2004, to discuss his book that had been recently released at that time called, "Lost Christianities: The Battles for Scripture and the Faiths We Never Knew" [Episode: 239]. In Lost Christianities and the program, Bart D. Ehrman offers a fascinating look at these early forms of Christianity and shows how they came to be suppressed, reformed, or forgotten. All of these groups insisted that they upheld the teachings of Jesus and his apostles, and they all possessed writings that bore out their claims, books reputedly produced by Jesus's own followers.
D. G. Martin is the host of UNC-TV’s “North Carolina Bookwatch,” who served in the U.S. Army’s Special Forces, a retired lawyer, politician, and university administrator.
Program discussed on Bart Ehrman's Foundation Blog: ehrmanblog.org/...
Bart D. Ehrman is the James A. Gray Distinguished Professor at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. He came to UNC in 1988, after four years of teaching at Rutgers University. At UNC he has served as both the Director of Graduate Studies and the Chair of the Department of Religious Studies. A graduate of Wheaton College (Illinois), Professor Ehrman received both his Masters of Divinity and Ph.D. from Princeton Theological Seminary, where his 1985 doctoral dissertation was awarded magna cum laude.
Copyright © Bart D. Ehrman and University of North Carolina Television UNC-TV. All Rights Reserved. Unauthorized use, re-posting and/or duplication of this media without express and written permission from Bart D. Ehrman and University of North Carolina Television UNC-TV is strictly prohibited.

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26 авг 2024

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Комментарии : 122

@JamesToupin 8 лет назад

I have to admit that, unlike some other nonbelievers who have commented on this video, that the host actually did a pretty good job of conducting this interview given his self-avowed Christian bias. He may not have been comfortable with all the answers but he at least asked the questions that got to the heart of Dr. Ehrman's topic.

@scarlett-o8446 8 лет назад

+James Toupin I agree. And he seemed open and curious about what Bart was saying without getting defensive. Actually, I kinda felt for the guy. There were moments when he seemed slightly pleading in the tone of his voice: Please, don't convince me my faith is not true!

@readu100 6 лет назад

I'm impressed that the interviewer didnt get defensive or offended. He seems like a genuine person.

@karensimons6313 9 лет назад

I enjoy Dr. Ehrman's talks so much! I thought Mr. Martin did a great job with the interview as it was clear that he was deeply interested in the topic. His curiousity and hunger for answers were palpable. Dr. Ehrman's knowledge, thoughtfulness and kindness were palpable also. Thanks so much to North Carolina Bookwatch for sharing this fine interview!

@jonahconner1111 9 лет назад

I think this interviewer is a great representation of modern Christians - nice, sincere, but totally ignorant of where their religion comes from and how it got to what it is today.

@RSCL_BEATZ 9 лет назад

Jonah Conner I wonder which one lead you to your comment: idiocy or condescension?

@deeshannongarrison5115 9 лет назад

Deltassippi There was nothing idiotic or condescending about that comment. It was grammatically correct with proper spelling and appropriate use of punctuation. It was not rude, belittling, or demeaning. I think that you need to invest in a dictionary, a history course, and a skin thickening agent.

@jonahconner1111 9 лет назад

Deltassippi Actually I meant it as more of a compliment. The interviewer is a nice guy and obviously believes what he says, he just doesn't know much about church history or textual criticism. "Ignorance" = to not know something, which is not the same as stupid. I grew up in the church and that is my evaluation from personal experience of years among Christians.

@RSCL_BEATZ 9 лет назад

Jonah Conner Fine. Your comment was unintentionally condescending and ignorant.

@jonahconner1111 9 лет назад

Deltassippi If anyone is ignorant about christianity, it's not me. I spent 30 years in the church, graduated from a conservative christian high school and college, minored in Biblical studies, have read countless books on the topic, and know Greek well enough to have read the entire NT in its original language. I am just as qualified to criticize christianity as anyone out there.

@losttribe3001 4 года назад

It’s interesting to hear Dr Erhman talk about gnostic churches. I was raised Mormon, mission, married in the Salt Lake Temple, etc. I’m now and atheist/agnostic, but it just dawned on me that Mormonism is part gnostic. At least, I don’t remember having this way of thinking before.... In the temple ceremonies, you’re given a new, secret name, taught secret words to pass into Heaven, and other nonsense. So not only is a reveled religion from the Burnt Out District, it’s part Gnostic that only the faithful (until the Internet) knew about.

@tulliusagrippa5752 9 лет назад

Well done, D G Martin. Your questions were incisive and impartial, and the discussion informative. Pity there is not more of this kind of discussion in the media.

@amnar6082 9 лет назад

Tullius Agrippa Indeed! This was so refreshing to watch; not only was he courteous and professional but he maintained this sort of exemplary conduct whilst interviewing a person who's views and ideas were of a very sensitive nature. As you mentioned he was not only polite but actually asked relevant questions too. Why this has become so rare is a mystery, it would seem like people who're unable to act professionally should not be given jobs as news anchors.

@utubepunk 8 лет назад

+Nezrim Flim Word. Not sure why the interviewer is getting so much heat in the comments here. He was polite & engaged.

@tulliusagrippa5752 8 лет назад

utubepunk You misunderstand. We both agreed that the interviewer was polite and engaged. There is no heat here on the interviewer. He is being praised for the way that he handled this interview.

@utubepunk 8 лет назад

Tullius Agrippa Wasn't referring to you, just the numerous comments others have made that were antagonistic to the interviewer.

@tulliusagrippa5752 8 лет назад

utubepunk Apologies. My error.

@AkoSiFrance 3 года назад

This is the first video where I saw and heard about Bart Ehrman. This one changed the course of my life.

@RayThomasEyeOfRay 9 лет назад

Great interview! Thank you so much for revealing the great history of things that forces me to rethink everything from religion to relationships. I've finally found that I'm now agnostic and in the process of learning how to deal with being so when around so many religion individuals. It's weird because I feel more empowered to make things happen and not wish, hope or pray. I always felt religion was a clutch for the intolerable and I despised that notion. I can't wait to read more of your work and be able to fortify my perspective on Christianity when question about my choices. You are great and I hope to meet you some day to thank you.

@theeconomicrevolutionist 4 года назад

This was a great interview. Dr. Ehrman is fascinating.

@alsdyall 8 лет назад

I thought D.G. Martin did a great job interviewing BDE. Considering his background did not expose him to this information. He asked good questions and also had to take into consideration the sentiments of his audience.

@alexsterling739 3 года назад

One of the best interviews I’ve ever watched. Insightful, honest, open, and a myriad of other things. So great

@karamsaadi 9 лет назад

To bart Ehrman your intelligence in early christian history is really greattt i am amazed at you i want smart like you

@drrydog 4 года назад

yawn, troll

@godlesshelp8503 9 лет назад

Bart you get some great gigs ... But I'm glad you're out there ...

@ajmalsarwar2939 4 года назад

I like how Bart doesn't go into overly technical areas which loses the audience. Unlike Christians speakers who do and their audience pretend to know what they are talking about.

@readu100 6 лет назад

Bart in case you read this comment. I love everything you have to say. I've started to watch your clips and I can not stop ! Better than Games of thrones!

@eddieking2976 9 лет назад

Looking forward to reading Bart's book, Forgery and Counter Forgery.

@frankandstern8803 6 лет назад

I stumbled upon a great couple of earlier videos by this man entitled the Lost Christianities. They are quite long. Really good stuff. I have been watching them when I could while working. Listening ony phone part one and two. I think I was the last one to do so. They were deleted while I was watching. Its too bad. I wonder if they will be posted again. They were presented as a course .

@MrZiaurrahman 4 года назад

Bart Ehrman has taught me a lot about christianity... like he mentioned in this interview, the diversity in early Christianity teaches us how wrong today's evangelicals are when they stop random individuals and say "jesus is your savior"....

@ashleyarroyo9919 9 лет назад

Enjoyed this!

@LeonardoJanz 9 лет назад

What about the point that some of the ancient Christians groups also believed in reincarnation (a central concept also within Judaism)? By the way (as I have been listening) the exposed idea of the "spiritual layers until divinity" as belonging only to the gnostics, also isn't complete, once that it's also fundamental to the Jews. Thus, lots of what is "new" from a Gnostic perspective, clearly seems to be already part of the Jewish tradition. Pointing to a bridge in favor of the Restoration Theology? Finally, it was a very nice interview, no doubt about it. Hugs from Brazil.

@solyomalbazz4925 5 лет назад

Great Character, great Job. Dr. B. Ehrman achieved the 1st step to get from Christianity to Agnostic, by putting facts on table about New Testaments Scriptures. But still He has to take one more step to refind the eventuell discrepancies in the All 3. monotheist religions (Judaism : Turah & Talmud, Christianity : Bible, Islam: Coran) Hope, Dr. B. Ehrman would take this challenge by using his high recognized great experience, applying it on others scriptures Torah and Coran. Yours Sincerely M. L

@TheBaconWizard 5 лет назад

He's an agnostic atheist and he is a professional scholar of the New Testament and a professor, he doesn't have time for other things even if he had the desire.

@nathanmckenzie904 4 года назад

@ flying horses

@coffey3c 9 лет назад

It's painful to watch as Mr. Martin grinds away at the narrative Ehrman provides, trying to contrive some thread of reason that he may assume something is still 'believable' in his religion. The stories were written by greeks, divorced from the events by time, language, and distance... edited, redacted, and cherry-picked from a plethora of stories of this type, that abounded from these times... "But the story itself could still be true?" Sure. It's the same thing you get, when you admit that neither logic, nor science, can ever really prove a negative... or 'disprove' anything to an absolute certainty... and you see the theists go "oh, thank god." Ehrman is very enjoyable to listen to, and read. It's sad that all some folks take away is that Spiderman, Batman, and Superman are real. They could be.

@LeBartoshe 4 года назад

22:15 - Is exclusivisim really a christian invention? Seems to me that judaism had this feature, too.

@drrydog 4 года назад

both did, good point, he most likely meant to clarify as Judaism, as it includes teachings of Jesus

@markworth2169 4 года назад

Judaism has generally been more about practicing the religion than acceptance of particular doctrines. Debate and disagreement are allowed.

@baghead777 9 лет назад

Great Book. I listened to the audio book version... This was a tap dancy interview. Never seen Bart interviewed by a Christian.

@karensimons6313 9 лет назад

baghead777 RU-vid has a video of the debate Dr. Ehrman did with apologist Kyle Butt. It was interesting, and a bit sad, too. Mr. Butt did not impress.

@baghead777 9 лет назад

Karen Simons I'll have to check it out. Thanks.

@DavidMaurand 6 лет назад

interesting that you consider man who knows more about the Bible - and has immersed himself in the history and development of the faith - to not be a Christian. The point is that from the beginning, 'Christian' was not just one thing ('orthodox'), it was different for different communities - the four gospels are proof enough of that, right there in your plain English translation. The attempt to define Christianity as one thing is where things go off the rails, the cause of centuries worth of theocratic my-way-or-the-highway misery, dystopia, witch hunts, and wars.

@mrjoybaaar4599 4 года назад

Good questions, better answers. Enjoyed it

@Moredread25 3 года назад

The tension was palpable. That 'mono' vs 'diverse' idea of what Christianity is a big unresolved issue, and you could see that discomfort when they disagreed about which is better.

@winston2015 9 лет назад

I think 'gnosis' only refers to enlightenment. Or that type of direct spiritual experience that nullifies ego, and transcends duality. It is not 'secret' in that sense, only that it cannot be conveyed by a book, i.e. conceptual mind. Neither is it bound to any one tradition. So whether one is Jewish Muslim Buddhist, Christian, etc,, you can experience gnosis. All it takes is practice,,, lots and lots of practice.

@dan020350 7 лет назад

-.- i wonder did "Tao Te Ching" was written by the teacher himself in the taoist founder, originally claim?

@ProjektaV2 9 лет назад

D.G. Martin is now gnostic-curious. Maybe even change his faith soon.

@RayThomasEyeOfRay 9 лет назад

Haha I was saying the same thing. He looked like he got hit with a ton of bricks when he realized Christianity was not written "by God" or the actual authors they said they were written by.

@Schutzstafell 9 лет назад

It's amazing to see how genuinely inquisitive people can become when talking about things like this. It's good knowing there are people out there like this with warmth and depth of thought, faith or faithless.

@skewCZ 9 лет назад

Schutzstafell Yeah, I was about to say, he really seemed like a pleasant guy, and seemed to have a genuine interest in what Bart had to say.

@jonahconner1111 9 лет назад

***** I agree, I appreciate this guy much more than others who get all angry and defensive and won't even talk about it.

@srebalanandasivam9563 4 года назад

"Unfortunately the original message of Jesus is long lost" is the summary of Bart Ehrman's words... That's what my conscience told me.

@jdewit8148 3 года назад

They wiped out the last continuous Gnostics, the Cathars. Praise the most high for the resurrection of Gnosticism through the Nag Hammadi library.

@joehinojosa8314 3 года назад

Even DURING Jesus lifetime there were Differing views On Christ:"Some say you are John the Baptist,some Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets". Matt 16:14.

@MyBozhidar 9 лет назад

to know anything and to prove any entity, we have to use or five senses and our thinking emanating from those five senses. believers use only thinking to prove existence of god; ergo, cannot prove it.

@sailingship2361 9 лет назад

Just as Bart mentions concerning some of his students, his ideas have actually strengthened my christian faith. Although some of the ideas expressed in the bible are absolutely beautiful and inspired… others are not. Some of the dysfunctional and even downright horrid ideas expressed in the book are exactly what are destroying many people’s beliefs and faith. I’m not a biblical hyper-literalistic “fundamentalist”. My faith doesn’t depend on that book or any other book. It rests on my personal and actual faith experience(s). If wrong things or exaggerated things have been written about Jesus the Christ, well there it is, and there’s not that much I or anyone can do about it. It doesn’t mean that the faith doesn’t exist or that Jesus didn’t and doesn’t still exist. At 13:00 where Bart states that the New Testament says that Jesus’s eternity, (the fact that He lives forever), is dependent on his crucifixion and resurrection, the NT also mentions one other thing. In one of the epistles of Paul it says that He, Jesus, was so perfect, so together, so without wrong doing and guile, that death could not keep ahold of him, i.e. that He overcame death. This is how I understand his eternity and the fact that He is still alive… not by some “god” ordained bloody and viciously required sacrifice. Thanks for reading

@MendicantBias1 7 лет назад

Asking Bart Erhman about the Da Vinci Code is like asking Tiger Woods about his opinions on putt putt golf.

@markworth2169 4 года назад

Ehrman also wrote a book about the numerous mistakes in Dan Brown's Da Vinci Code.

@srebalanandasivam9563 4 года назад

Thomas form of Christianity in Kerala and Tamil Nadu since 52ad is the oldest form extant on earth

@pcbacklash_3261 8 лет назад

Toward the end, the interviewer seemed to be getting closer to asking Bart if he was a believer himself, and I was looking forward to seeing how Bart (an outspoken atheist) would respond. But we never got there. Interesting stuff nonetheless...

@ferocient 6 лет назад

PCBacklash Actually, Ehrman calls himself an "agnostic" rather than an atheist. I also question whether one could call Ehrman "outspoken". He seems very accommodating to Christians genrally, though, on occasion, he will make a mild humorous joke regarding religious belief.

@caddy1010 8 лет назад

Wouldnt the whole bible be considered to be pseudepigrapha?

@gorillawalk2 8 лет назад

+caddy1010 The term pseudepigrapha refers to a book that claims an author other than it's real author. Many biblical books are written anonymously and do not claim a certain author.

@ajmeyers5661 7 лет назад

+Scott Aaron - I think caddy1010 is making a tongue-in-cheek comment: many people believe the Bible was written by God so...

@TheBaconWizard 5 лет назад

@@ajmeyers5661 Many people are idiots. You can't even make that claim about the Old Testament, nevermind the new one. But then again, many people haven't actually read it and still like to tell others what it is and what it says.

@danielmartini3229 5 лет назад

so young, but still the same jacket

@pope400 4 года назад

"Yeah, stop trying to make me say this proves Christianity is true."

@sakiamran11 6 лет назад

Either people like it or not Christianity is dying.

@davidk5954 4 года назад

Absolutely. We have to defend ourselves from the danger of Islam though.

@manticomar1146 4 года назад

@@davidk5954 christianity is dying so is islam this coming from a muslim our beautiful faith hijacked by extremists and conceited fundementalists which is worse situation than christianity really

@cvf628 4 года назад

@@manticomar1146 I don't know if Christianity is dying or evolving. How necessary is it to have a single omnipotent figure anymore or that a promise of eternal salvation is necessary to increase membership. Why can't you have a church that teaches the good things and throws away all of the horrible ones. When Dr. Ehrman was speaking about the nostics and the different levels that are obtained including a secret word for each level it came across similar to the 32 degrees of Freemasonry with their symbolic rituals which do include a resurrection going back to time of the building of Solomon's temple. There is a ton of stuff written on that. It's the only secret society that no longer has any secrets.

@adaradar3141 4 года назад

@@manticomar1146 If you think Islam is dying, then, you don't understand what Islam means, you might just be a nominal Muslim, anyway.

@srebalanandasivam9563 4 года назад

The last fitna will be eliminating the desert cult ummat

@tornado1789 9 лет назад

This host is really disturbing! He pissed me off! He did not let Bart finish any idea about what he would say! I mean who was the host, and who was guest in this interview? :/ I was hoping dr Bart finish his talk about gospel of Thomas. I wish, also, he could talk about what was the belief which was held by disciples of jesus?

@paullenart7041 6 лет назад

READ HIS BOOKS!

@dguy7436 3 года назад

Interviewer felt the foundation of his religious beliefs tremble...

@kamarudinhj.dolmoin8578 3 года назад

Lost christianities..including THE lost TRUTH.

@mcpeake69 8 лет назад

One fact that Christians refuse to acknowledge is that there is not ONE contemporary historian of the man called Jesus who mentions him in any of their writings. And there were some 126 who lived contemporaneously with that man. Philo Judaeus was born in 20 B.C.E. and died 50 C.E. He lived as the greatest Jewish-Hellenistic philosopher and historian of the time and lived in the area of Jerusalem during the alleged life of Jesus. He wrote detailed accounts of the events that occurred in the surrounding area. Yet not once, in all of his volumes of writings, do we read a single account of a Jesus "the Christ" Nor do we find any mention of Jesus in Seneca's (4? B.C.E. - 65 C.E.) writings, nor from the historian Pliny the Elder (23? - 79 C.E.).If, indeed, such a well known Jesus existed, as the gospels allege, don't you think it's reasonable that, at the very least, the fame of Jesus would not have reached the ears of ONE of these men? Amazingly, we have not one Jewish, Greek, or Roman writer mentioning ANYTHING found in the New Testament.

@Fireoncityy 4 года назад

0.o where are you getting this from. There are several from Roman times. Egyptian and more. Look to Josephus, one of the most respected is the easiest to point out.

@MechaJutaro 9 лет назад

Get back till where we once belonged; sounds like the Lads from Liverpool were preaching Gnosticism several moons before the term entered the popular discourse

@Seeds-Of-The-Wayside 3 года назад

I love his accent. North Carolahhna.

@l337pwnage 9 лет назад

Gnostics gonna Gnost. @18:30 to @19:20 Sounds like Scientology. ;p

@TheBaconWizard 5 лет назад

Yeah, quite a lot.

@Nattleby 5 лет назад

There is evidence that Gnostic groups existed near Bactrian Greek Buddhist Monasteries called Theraputerae in Alexandria, and I think there was cross pollination. Buddhist cosmogony is similar to the Gnostic cosmogony in various ways, not to mention the central themes of Enlightenment and escape from phenomenological existence.

@skronked 3 года назад

Bart rules!

@hwh1946 4 года назад

It seems the interviewer is himself a follower of christianity. Good questions though not dismissal of Bart's scholarship methodology of the study of religion. Remember C. is one of 4 major religions in the world now. are the "other three" wrong?

@morinagi7546 4 года назад

god give us brain to use it

@rdorleans6522 4 года назад

Bart should read and study logic. And Thomas Paine. If he has, he didn't pay attention.

@MartinTheMartian1 9 лет назад

So much brilliance so focused on the wrong things. The mew of sheep. If the intellectually potent could only focus on something other than potency.

@StefanTravis 9 лет назад

DG Martin - a smart man terrified of offending non-smart men.

@poguemahone1031 9 лет назад

D.G. Martin was almost unbearably asinine. He greeted virtually every fact with a feeble rationalization. His discomfort was palpable. Funny how on the Gnosticism topic, you could tell he was having second thoughts on the security of his "soul." "Oh shit, I left a base uncovered? What's the secret to salvation? Also, what's the secret family recipe of Bush's baked beans? The 23 flavors in Dr. Pepper? The number of licks required to get to the center of a Tootsie Pop? For the love of God, man, TELL ME!!"

@markdoldon8852 9 лет назад

What a horrid interviewer. He was so terrified of actually admitting that books might be fraudulent that he can barely speak a proper sentence.

@ArizonaWillful 5 лет назад

He is afraid his Southern TV viewers will surround the TV station with tar and feathers. Being a white man, they can't lynch him for heresy but they can run him out of town tar and feathered.

@newdawnrising8110 3 года назад

This guy is an atheist and spreading a false teaching that the church was not United in its first 300 years. It’s just false. The apostolic succession has remained since Pentecost. Of course there were other groups that believed different things the the apostolic succession was created by Christ to prevent distortions. This guy is just confusing ppl. .

@duffgordon9005 8 лет назад

This is how any questioner/debater first question should be: " Bart forget everything in particular, please. Here is my question Bart; Is your mind able to accept, and with the proper evidence which you would "need" that the idea of "super-or supranatural is possible in any form" ? Or are you a died in the wool atheist/agnostic. This needs to done in order to know where his bias is. If eg he said no, well then we know that he is a doubter/skeptic because his mind makes him so. And thus biased and wasting our time.

@ArizonaWillful 5 лет назад

So if there is no real hokus pokus in the Bible, there's nothing worthwhile there? Seriously? By the way, he may be wasting YOUR time, but not "OUR" time.

@apcwzrd 4 года назад

It would be helpful to understand that Bart began as a evangelical Christian, obtained his degree in divinity and actually taught as a minister of a church. Not your typical "died in the wool atheist/agnostic" - he has been on both sides of the line. Much more credible than your died in the wool bible thumping "I'm right and your wrong" Christian.

@MyBozhidar 9 лет назад

jesus failed at least twice: .when he refused to do a miracle in the presence of the pharisees he lost almost all potential believers in him as messiah. it may have also cost him his life! .and jesus had not yet established a church of his own except for a very short period of time