Battle Breakdown : Second Battle of Deep Space Nine 

DS9 was always my favorite Trek series. Unlike the others (good in their own right) DS9 has aged really well. In a lot of ways, DS9 was a Star Trek/Star Wars hybrid in that it had its fair share of mysticism, an evil empire vs a scrappy resistance, a giant space station, and a scummy underworld who worked both sides.

"I have eyes Damar!" - Dukat, love that line.

The federation not reinforcing DS9 was a huge risk. Sure taking out a shipyard is a big military victory but if ds9 failed to blockade the wormhole, then that single shipyard wouldn't have mattered. The federation took a huge gamble and by the power of plot armor, it payed off.

Deep Space 9 is Gene Roddenberry version of WW2 as he was a Veteran of that war if look at the Ally's and Starfleet and the look at the Axis and the Dominion you will see a direct coralation between the two

I'm sure we're looking forward to seeing your analysis of the battle in Sacrifice of Angels. My favorite episode.

Ultimately this battle was a victory for the Federation. They accomplished their stated goals, stalled the Dominion, and made them expend resources to use the territory they took.

Wait... are you telling me the Federation participated in a battle without at least one Oberth class ship? Are you sure?

Ds9 is amazing

This Battle bothered me greatly. If Startfleet had spared even maybe the 7 ships they sent when the klingons attacked, and maybe the the klingons sent another 4 or 5 Bird of Pray's . It would have been entirely possible that they would have held the station. The Feds plan was to destroy the shipyard then come back to DS9 and try to retake it. I'm sure that huge fleet the feds/klingons sent to ship yards was that needed to be that large. Heck maybe give the station a wing of fighters. Heck, they knew this war was coming. With Obrien they could have raided some mothball yards and strapped some of the torpeodo pods of the Danube onto the Oberths. The station had enough firepower, that if you forced the dominion to split their fire, the could have won that fight.

You do know that Kira's 'give us the station' line was just lip service to the non aggression pact right, not actually wanting the station?

Although the Federation lost the station, they managed to commit the universe's greatest blockade ever...and eventually do something that couldn't have been possible otherwise...effectively Q-away a fleet of thousands of ships.

I enjoyed when Dukat just casually after dozens of ships are destroyed tells his ships to fire on a weak point of the station. Maybe start off with that next time.

it's amazing that Klingon Bird of Preys,ships that could be disabled by a damaged Constiution class starship could hold off Jem' Hadar attacks.

This episode was a shining moment for Rom. Though I would've.deployed mines on the Gamma aperture of the wormhole IMMEDIATELY following the first sign of Gominion aggression.

You know what I find the most odd, we see Klingon ships get shredded faster then Dominion ships, but more Dominion ships were destroyed overall. I think it was stated 50 Dominion Ships were destroyed, and Klingons loss less then 30 and more then 11 were destroyed between the two battles.

Two of my favorite Star Trek episodes.

When looking at the strategic thinking by the Federation in this battle it seems that they thought they be able to recapture DS9 a lot faster than the 6 months or so that actually took. Otherwise, they won't have given up the station so easily and opting to destroy the Dominion ship yards.

At the time of airing, I remember the Dominion holding the station going on for what seemed like a whole season. However when re-watching the series recently, I found that it was really that many episodes. Which is a shame, seemed like there was so much more that could have been done with that premise.

The Battle of DS9 was a Stragetic DEFEAT for The Dominion. All they achieved was taking the Station. The Minefield still went up, which was their primary goal. It was a Tactical Victory nothing more

Lore Reloaded, This wasn't a loss for the Federation/Klingon Alliance. This was a strategic victory. They traded One Station for 50 ships and an entire ship yards, and sealed the worm hole from further reinforcements. In combat tactics you never engage in battle to equal trade. Secondly you never sacrifice mobile defenses for static defenses. In Star Wars, Thrawn Campaign Seig of Coruscant, Thrawn used cloaked asteroids to force Coruscant to raise and maintain it's planetary shield. He used 10 Interdictors and Six Star Destroyers and 8 Dreadnoughts to execute his plan. Garm Bel Iblis told Leia that Mon Mothma should withdraw their gunships from the Golan Defense Platforms because they could absorb more firepower and that wasting mobile defenses against the Star Destroyers would be foolish if the static defenses were still capable. When the Gunsship withdrew, Thrawn automatically knew it was Bel Iblis now calling the shots.

Good analysis, but I disagree that a single Jem'hadar battle cruiser was a significant threat to DS9. Granted, it is a powerful ship against any Alpha / Beta ship, but wouldn't stand a chance against the armament of DS9.

I donn't know If I would really call it a loss for the Federation. They had 2 main goals, complete and arm the mine field and destroy the Dominion shipyards on the Alpha Quadrant side of the wormhole. I find it hard to believe they actually thought the station would hold out with no reinforcements so it was a tactical sacrifice. The station remained intact but sabotaged so that for the duration of the Dominion's occupation it would not have it's powerful weapons available, so the Dominion had to keep a larger number of ships present in it's defense, ships that otherwise would be availabe for other battles in the oncoming weeks. I would call it an intentional tactical loss in support of a strategic victory.

Ds9 was impressive. It held off the Klingons during the hiccup in their Alliance an I remember it took quite alot for the Dominion to get it done too. Personally I think it was a mistake not originally having ships and forces in Starfleet just as dedicated or more suited to war then science. It could've saved them alot of pain early on till they caught up. You ever think about doing a battle series like this just for other franchises like the Star wars verse?? Notice you mostly due Trek. Don't always agree much with these but they're pretty good.

Small oversight: you didn't breakdown the Cardassian fighters and Galor ships.

Hey, can you do a video on the Nautilus Class? I doubt I spelled that right. The giant ship that the Admiral used to destroy the Enterprise in the 2nd New Star Trek Movie. I would love to see a breakdown of that ship, and maybe what would have happened if the federation would have had this ship during the Dominion War.

Congratulations on 10k! I enjoy your work. Keep it up!

I'm such a big Star Trek fan and still i don't now so much of the lore :/ Briliant video mate :)

I wonder what would have happened if the Federation actually tried to hold DS9. Pulling back to hold a solid line where you can maintain your supply lines was a smart move at first but Sisko's pitch for OP Return couldn't be more true "Earth isn't the key to the Alpha quadrant, the wormhole is. And whoever controls Deep Space 9 controls the wormhole". Leaving DS9 was a very high risk gamble that depended on the effectiveness of the mine field the Federation no longer had access to if something went wrong. Post battle of DS9 also saw one losing battle after another so even though it was a smart move, the Dominion had the initiative and momentum that they took full advantage of despite their losses at DS9 and their major space docks. If they tried to stay and won, there's no way Starfleet could hold the station for very long.

I would have to add a second detail to consider as to why Starfleet DID NOT send a task force to DS9 to defend it. They didn't have the resources to fully protect the station. Why? Using the release date of the episode "Call to Arms," and the movie "Star Trek: First Contact," (2nd DS9 battle and Battle for Sector 001), they are roughly 6 months apart. (June 16th, 1997 and November 22nd 1996). Using those dates you can speculate that the Federation only had 6 months apart from each battle. The Borg attack 6 months earlier damaged a lot of ships and Starfleet was in the process of rebuild and repair. In First Contact, you hear Worf ask "Hows the Defiant?" Riker responds "salvageable but adrift." Meaning, Starfleet was able to quickly repair the Defiant and get it back out on the front lines. Versus other more damaged vessels from the Borg attack that are most likely sitting near repair facilities needing rebuilds. I wouldn't have been surprised if Starfleet took the approach that the US Army Air Forces used in World War 2 where you "piece it together." Essentially piece it together is this, you have 2 aircraft (in Starfleet ships) the tail section and wings of one air craft are salvageable but the fuselage is destroyed however you have another aircraft where the fuselage is use able but the wings and tail section are destroyed. What do you do? Well you put the two together and now you got an air craft that can fight. Tactically, losing DS9 for the short term, BUT destroying the shipyards and support facilities bought Starfleet the time they needed to rebuild the fleet after the Borg attack. Looking at that context of the 2 Battles being relatively close together simply shows mining the wormhole is a greater tactical advantage than defending the space station with limited resources. When you have limited resources, you have to be selective of how you allocate those resources. When the episode "Sacrifice of Angels" comes around (aired on November 3rd 1997), it has been roughly 1 year since the Borg attack. I think by that point, Starfleet knew that they had to take the station back and regain the tactical advantage of DS9. I wouldn't say that Starfleet was at full capability (we wouldn't see that for another year), but in a position where they could make an offensive move without risking the entire fleet.

The first warship of the federation the defiant class is a small as a run about but it is very powerful for such a little ship

At 0:58 in the scene where Sisko enters the room how come those Jem'Hadar soldiers have their weapons with them? Shouldn't they haven't been disarmed? And if Sisko already knew war was inevitable he could ordered to seize the Battleship and take Weyoun as prisoner. The single Battleship would stand no chance against the station by itself.

I would argue that this battle was NOT a strategic victory but it was a tactical one. Strategically it was a defeat. First the Dominion shipyards were destroyed because they were caught looking the other way. The comparative casualty lists were ridiculously lopsided. For one space station and no ships lost the Dominion lost at least 50 ships. Furthermore DS9 was not destroyed but disabled. Oh and that's another point of loss for the Dominion as they were faced with who knows how long of repair work to make it a working station again. Finally the minefield was successfully laid which was most certainly a strategic victory for the Federation. I would liken this "victory" to be very similar to the "victories" of the Japanese in early WW2. The immediate tactical and strategic targets were missed in both cases, mine field and US carriers. The secondary tactical objective was taken but later reclaimed, DS9 and US battleships. And ultimately this was the first miscalculation in a war that the Dominion ultimately lost.

Part of the reason it looked like the Klingons got shredded more was because DS9 was firing a lot more rapidly against them

When you listen carefully and then remember, what the first plans of JMS were for Babylon 5... you hear the similarities... and when you then know, that Parmount hat access to JMS first drafts, it seems more and more likely, that they were copying

Interesting thing about Bajor is that it was supposed to join the Federation until Sisko in his altered mental state told them not to. It is foreshadowing that Sisko being able to see possible future events after being electrocuted in Quark's holosuite. He is in fact a half Prophet alien. Bajor signing the treaty of non-aggression can be seen as the will of their deities to keep them safe as the Emmisary said so.

Wouldn't it be a Dominion tactical victory but a Federation/Klingon strategic victory? DS9 was lost yes but the Federation managed to successfully mine the wormhole preventing Dominion reinforcements from continuing to enter the Alpha quadrant.

I agree to your in and out of universe explanation for more klingon ships being destroyed or at least i agree both are possible here's my in universe explanation there was tech sharing between the Federation and the Klingon Empire the neg'vahr used components of the galaxy class

the goal was to never destroy DS9 but to recapture it

To be fair...Maybe the Defiant class is classified as an "Escort" vessel was meant to mean that it will escort the borg back to the delta quadrant..in pieces^^

I would argue that this battle was a tactical victory for the Dominion but a strategic victory for the Federation. Why? Simple: The Federation achieved its goal of deploying and activating the minefield. The Dominion failed to prevent this, which was their primary objective. On the larger scope, the opening gambits of the war saw the Federation alliance severely blunt the initiative of the Dominion. Based on statements by O'Brien and others, I infer that the first 3 months of conflict were essentially just warfare-by-attrition until the Dominion cornered and obliterated the 7th Fleet.

It was a pyrrhic victory for the dominion. Their objective was to capture the station and thus secure the wormhole to allow reinforcements into the alpha quadrant. They took heavy losses capturing the station ........ but failed in their ultimate aim of reopening the wormhole. Also the dominion fleet must have been >100 ships, while the klingon fleet that attacked in WOTW was only around 30 - 40 ships that is why the station cut through the Klingon ships.

some years late but the federation did great since aoll three objectives "traded" were very important, but in case of investing ships to ds9 and losing it they would have gained one objective at a higher cost and lost one, this way they stried two enemy objectives losing one and with a lesser cost

I always thought that the shields holding was just a sensor trick by Starfleet?

To Me, I think is a mistake that starfleet that they left DS9. It took them over 3 months and heavy losses before they got it back. If they send a small fleet to help defend DS9, things could better for Federation Alliance. That's just my opinion

The gem hadar fighter that crashed on a planet and stayed intact was specially built to transport the founder changeling so it was built to be tougher than usual they were not all like that. I think so anyway.

Yes but at the end of the battle Weyuon does say they lost over 50 ships in the battle

Alot of prople are saying the Fed lost this battle but I disagree. Victory is more than just holding territory. The Fed accomplished every goal at this battle. Yes the Dom took the station but it was useless due to Kira and the Sisko program failsafe. It also diverted Dom attention away from other fronts, allowing an allied attack to succeed. It finally bought time for the minefield to be laid and armed. I'd call this one heck of a Fed victory.

You forgot to mention that the defiant class has ablative armor.

Something that just occurred to me, did Starfleet remove the Runabouts?

Dammit! I need the name of the background music! It's so good. ;-;

Brilliant video, thank you :-)

1 thing that is never mentioned if you had a full contingent of personnel on this station at the time of the attack how did all of those people fit on the defiant... this may be late but it's one question I've always had

Lore Reloaded, great vids but seems a little quiet. Might just be me though but I did have to turn my volume up.

Starfleet forgot that escort is just another term for warship didn't they? Anyone who says it is a less aggressive term is not familiar with the battle off samar, if they wanted to be really coy about it they would have called the Defiant a fleet security vessel or something, make it sound like a spaceborne police car.

Interesting.

Cool videos. Like really cool.

I alway thought that Bajor was a constitutional theocracy, with the Kai as head of state and not cald a republic but just Bajor.

I am YES for Operation Return.

I love ya dude, but I don't get where you think the Dominion fleet suffered less than the Klingon one. In the after action report, Weyoun said they'd lost over 50 ships. I doubt the Klingons lost more than that.

The dominion should have ignored DS9 and sent everything at the defiant. If they didn't have every mine in place the minefield could have been taken down. So any losses taken by ignoring DS9 while doing this could easily be made up by from gamma quadrants reinforcements.

The reason the Klingons were loosing more is because they had less ships in the battle. and the fact that they stood down. I am not trolling nor have I ever I just know the show very well

One of the things that never made sense to me was that hit to the docking ring cutting of main power to the shields? The main shield generators and emitters are ner the top of the core.... the fusion reactors are at the bottom of the core. So we rout the main power from the generators to the shields out of the core to the docking ring and then back into the core to the shields? What idiot came up with that conduit routing? Not counting the tactical vulnerability, it would just be more expensive on materials doing it that way as well.

Not sure how you came to the conclusion that the Dominion fleet weathered the damage done from them from DS9 better than the Klingon fleet. The battle was shot for shot the exact same battle, the only slight difference was Dominion/Cardassian ships vs Klingon ships.

Thanks for vidz

The jemhadar battle fighters look like dear ticks , they always remind me of them , creepy lil ships to me cause i had Rocky mountain tick fever when i was 9 going on 10 an wad so sick an had nightmares oit of this world see a monster size tick drove me insane 😲 but good ole technology's sake came threw , an no more monster ticks untill DS9 shows up an there it is 👾, i had flash backs to way back then when i was so sick an feverish i was,put in tubs an tubs of ice water literally floaring around in a ice bath to relieve my fever, but all is well an i think the ship is sharp , but just a tad creepy for me .lol nice video thanks

Do lore on Star Blazers are you

Audio issue when explaining the ships and station in the battle????

I vote for operation returned

Wait a minute, birds of prey are the Klingon Miranda class

But what if the Dukat knew about the failsave?

The amount of times he said klingon instead of dominion

You failed to mention the defiants cloaking capabilities...

Honestly, a bit disappointed with this, why was I watching most of the moving scenes in a tiny window? Why was there not a breakdown of where ships were hit or something? Idk just seemed....mostly said the info in the show, other than the ship breakdowns. Also you didn't mention the Cardassian ships makeup. 😐

This episode is so full of plot armor. 1. The dominion had ships to spare and should have tried more aggressively to bring down the minefield as soon as they learned about it. 2. No one in Cardassia wondered where the rest of Starfleet was? 3. How many ships were sent against the Defiant and failed? Mind you the station is a fixed location and can only give so much covering fire. 4. If Starfleet was really willing to sacrifice DS9, they should have blown it up.

Designed to work in tandem with the Akira? All Federation ships are designed to work with all other Federation ships. Your videos frustrate me. You invent too much.

Your punch ins make my ears bleed...

Your transitions are so bad, please stop.