Ravenscroft has a lovely brilliance, feels ethereal. I like the sound more for recordings. But CFX is more playable. Gives the kind of feedback I expect when playing the piano. Made me finally retire the original Ivory Steinway for everyday use. Imho as a classical pianist, CFX is a joy to play and Ravenscroft a joy to hear. Both really good for either role of course. PS. Damn you need a sturdier stand for that keyboard.
Awesome work! Thank you so much for this video. It illustrates well the characteristics of both solutions. I hope you do realize that you will be asked to make more and more comparisons...
very useful video!! you really put them through their paces. I think there's a little clipping on some of the most strenuous passages? Is that the plugin or just the way it was recorded?
they both sound pretty amazing. the question how it feels for the player.. I love garritan, but maybe I miss some more character on mid-high register, which ravernscroft definitely has.. I don't believe ravenscroft is really better than garritan in any sense but still just bought it :D garritan gives me the feeling that i can make any crazy subtle dynamic changes anytime which I never even felt I'm capable on achieving on super expensive grand pianos. Garritan is very very musical.. feels seriously like I'm in front of the most expensive grand.. I hope ravenscroft is similar just different
Thanks so much for a lovely demo (wobbly stand notwithstanding 😁..). I enjoyed your selection of pieces, which really helped to show the capabilities of each vst; +1000 for playing so much Rachmaninov!! Both vst's sound very close, hence difficult to choose, but the G-CFX seems to sound a bit more full-bodied than the R275 (does this have to do with which mic positions you used for each?). Which is your workhorse, or do you use both?
Excellent . This helped me a lot. I am noticing that when you play very forte the ravenscroft you can 'feel' the power whereas with the garritan you get more of a loud sound. Considering getting the ravenscroft soon . Thanks
tbh they both sound unbelievably good. To my untrained ear the Ravenscroft seems more composed and universally capable. While the Garritan is a bit of a diva, sometimes shouting a bit over the top, but also sometimes has these spikes of emotion that gives you the goose bumps.
I'm just thinking about starting to try to use VSTs, so this was insanely helpful - thank you so much for taking the time to do this! Can I just ask - what sort of power does the computer you're running this on have? I don't want to get something completely overkill, but I want to make sure it can run Garritan well!
I would suggest testing. Ravenscroft 275 I found that while the specs should be fine they didn't quite allow me to do what I wanted them to on an older 4 core intel duo and then a 2 core 4 thread i7 laptop. The more mic options you opt for the more it demands from the system. Running 4 mic positions + the pedaling sampling etc. you will run into more issues. Lol. At home running a Xeon 6 core 12 thread with 24gb ram. So thats fine now. lol Garritan is on the list for sure and its a big file.
i am using a dual core i7 laptop with 24GB RAM (that much ram is not really requirede but i had upgraded mine since i also use it for premiere proi). My laptop can handle garritan even the full sample installation rated at 122GB. BUT i get hiccups at times because my laptop is still using the traditional hard drive (mechanical). S if i convert it to 2.5 SATA SSD i believe the performance will be even better.
I got R275 and I thought it was the best. I still found the C6 -C7 range a little “plinky” and the low end a tad mushy but I figured that’s sampled pianos. Bought VSL Steinway and returned. And then... I decided to try Garritan CFX when it was on sale. GAME OVER, no comparison, not even sort of. Even with my cheap M-Audio CODE61 the piano sound which includes the room at Abbey Road is clear winner. Wow.
Yeah if you're going to spend out on Garritan CFX and a Kawai VPC1, I'd go the extra mile and get a Quiklok stand, or at least something more sturdy. Nothing says 'real piano' like Low Rider suspension lol
The Garritan sounds bold. It growls too much on the lower base end in my opinion. The Ravenscroft sounds more flavorful in it’s expression. They are both really good though.
Is it just me or does the Garritan have slightly more dynamic range? But really they are both close to perfection... sometimes I can't stop playing my r275 because I don't want that dreamy sound to go away...
@@MusclePianist I have both too and I agree. The Garritan has some small defects (some background noise in certain areas, little weakeness in the octave above the central one, and it doesn't have half pedal), yet the realism is incredible!
Kiedyś wpadłem przypadkiem na Twój kanał, kiedy grałeś chyba na Rolandzie FP-80, a potem nie mogłem go znaleźć. Teraz szukałem porównania R275 vs Garritan CFX i przypadkiem znowu tu trafiłem. Świetnie grasz - powiedz, uczyłeś się sam, czy była szkoła muzyczna? Pozdrawiam.
Skończyłem 2 klasę 2 stopnia. Potem zrezygnowałem i po 4 latach przerwy na studiach wróciłem do grania i sam dla siebie gram i uczę się dalej aczkolwiek jestem już 3 lata po studiach, dużo pracuje, jeżdżę w delegację więc mam bardzo mało czasu na wstawianie nowych filmów i uczenie się nowych utworów co Zresztą można zauważyć po częstotliwości z jaką ostatnio wrzucam filmy.
I honestly believe VSL Synchron is the best, but this VST is out of my budget (too expensive!!), so I'm going to use Garritan later this year. Your preset made my jaw dropped...!
Great review! Without high quality sound reproduction the two sound equally spectacular and worthy of consideration. I plan to move from an iPad to a Mac very soon. Somewhat off topic here but unlike this desktop version I have found the iPadOS Ravenscroft 275 app suffers clicking / popping and difficulty getting to a usable tone. Even using the AUdio Unit interface in Cubasis I am not able to get any improvement. (BTW I have had great success on iPad with the Colossus Concert Grand) Noting your difficulty in getting the Ravenscroft tone ‘right’ and my experience I think I’ll go with the Garritan.
Should you recommend me to get Ravencroft app on 2020 iPad Pro ??? Is the velocity better using desktop or the same for foth platform? I am still deciding to get one, contemplating on iPad since it's cheaper than desktop version. But if Ravencroft better in term of velocity and dynamic in Desktop, then I have no choice to get the desktop. Thank you for your kind respons 🙏🏽
@@WeDoLoveU Firstly I only use an iPad and on this I absolutely prefer the Colossus Concert Grand from 'crudebyte'. I have installed Ravenscroft, Korg Module and many others including some very good sf2 files (free) from sites.google.com/site/soundfonts4u/ but always return to the Colossus - remember this is my personal preference and that I do not at this stage have a Mac to offer any comparisons. The Concert Grand is the most expensive of the Colossus options and the largest (12 layers and ~2 Gbyte download ~15 Gbyte installed ). If you have a suitable iPhone with sufficient free space it will also run on that. The Colossus app is free download but the Concert Grand is an 'inapp' purchase. I have not yet migrated to Mac but AFAIK the Colossus is not available for PC or Mac. So far as I can tell the offerings on Mac or PC extend well beyond what can be found for iPad, eg Spectrasonics Keyscape, Addictive Keys, Embertone, Garrison, Native Instruments to name a few. Also I'm pretty sure the Ravenscroft 275 for Mac (or PC?) is a very different (nb better) product to what they offer for iPad under the same name. Good luck!
@@DougGray-xf3hz Thank you for spend time to write the reply. I really appreciate that. I will try the link and do more comparation. You deserve more subscribers and viewer 🙏🏽
Great video, man you need a better stand for your skill, I am using a "Stellar Labs Heavy Duty Keyboard Stand " It's very stable, never shake like that, you should get one as well.
it's not that fun when you consider that you literally lose so much dynamic range for classical music which involves ff or even fff. For example, you play Rachmaninoff and because of the shaking, your impulse gets absorbed, or another way to put it, your energy which should go into the keys gets transformed into that shaking business. I wish I had considered that earlier before actually buying a good one.
A few thoughts - CFX has a small amount of noise that I don't hear on 275 at all, but it is at a natural level and doesn't build up obnoxiously like on some other virtual pianos (I'm looking at you CineSamples and Keyscape). All differences are extremely subtle, but I think CFX has a slightly wider image (could be narrowed through the UI), mids are more forward, and it's more roomy. Simply switching to 275 dials all of that back. I'm surprised by similar the attack and low end is on the two considering they are entirely different brands in different rooms with different mics. I bet that with a small amount of work through the UI, either piano could probably be made to sound more like the other.
A few comments. You play very nicely! In 2024, This comparison is ~4 years old now and my personal opinion is that the VSL Synchron pianos are superior to these two as long as you have a relatively fast, modern computer and can afford them. Both of these are still relevant and great choices for those on a budget or have older, slower systems. The Ravenscroft is thought to be too bright by some players. The Garritan samples are thought to be too noisy by some players. Both are very serviceable for most situations. I happen to like the Ravenscroft sound and use it for most practice sessions, but I always record with one of the VSL Pianos, especially for solo work. Just my opinion,…this is mostly directed towards those still doing research for purchasing a primary piano VST. The Merriam Music channel on YT also has good comparisons between these as well as the VSL Synchron pianos, and many more. Gamma1734 also has good reviews on YT and comparisons for many piano VSTs... Good luck!
7:20 - Batman? Thanks for the comparisons. I'll be going with the CFX because of the price on Sweetwater and the extensive options and presets. Both sound good, and both can be EQ'd to taste. (Someone commented the 275 is too "metallic" but this can be mostly EQ'd away if you know the frequencies (Soundgym is a good trainer for this, although I imagine there are a number that do the same thing.)
so is it sort of like... you need to use a DAW app, like Ableton Live (or Garageband or Logic Pro), and then use a "Plugin", which is often a VST (VST3, VST2, which is the Garritan CFX or Ravenscroft 275 or VSL), and then... use a digital piano as the MIDI controller (MIDI input), and so when you play on the piano, it sends the MIDI signal to the computer, and it takes the sound wave from the VST and play it and send to the speakers? Is it real time enough? I don't hear of any complaints
Very nice. Thanks for this comparison. I already own the Garritan CFX and have been considering the Ravenscroft, too. Both are very close, but the CFX sounds a bit more "open", if that makes sense. But, seriously, so close that it really wouldn't make any difference with my playing proficiency.
@@MusclePianist I think this is the core issue; the warmth of the sounds. I don't know if that is due to the recording method used, mics, and mic placement, but there is a noticeable difference in a side-by-side comparison. Frankly, it is a privilege to own either of these VI pianos, but I think I'll stick with the CFX for now as there wouldn't be any compelling reason to add the Ravenscroft to the library. Thanks again for a great video.
@@Travv.Official The configuration requirements are listed on the packaging, if you are buying it locally. However, you can also head over to the Sweetwater site and they'll provide you with some relevant details on their site, which will be helpful. But, in essence, if you have a MIDI keyboard controller connected to your host computer via USB, all you'll need to do is install the CFX on your computer. Be warned -- it is an absolutely massive installation (something on the order of 140GB if I remember correctly). I use a Native Instruments S88 MK2 keyboard, and it works flawlessly with the keyboard. You may have some MIDI setting to tweak if you have a complex MIDI configuration, but my CFX went in without modification and works beautifully. I will be stepping up my game in 2020 by acquiring a Kawai VPC1 controller, which is arguably the best piano keyboard MIDI controller on the market, and I expect the integration to be seamless with that keyboard. Check out other RU-vid demos of both CFX setup and also the Kawai VPC1 which will arm you with good info.
In my opinion, both pianos sound great. I think the only thing that I am not a fan of is the release samples on one of them. If there was some thing on the screen to tell which one was which I missed it because I am blind. The only way I can explain it is that on the second example of each comparison, the notes sounded like they fade it out more than a natural release whereas the first ones put me in front of some of the nicest pianos I've ever played.
Yes, I'm pretty sure you're talking about the Garritan. A big pet peeves of mine with Piano VSTs is when they don't get the damping behavior right. Ravenscroft so know for having excellent staccato behavior and emulates this much more realistically than the CFX in my opinion.
Hi...i'd like to ask you a few questions about this software if possible. Here you have them:1) is this app avaiable for windows/pc alone cause i dont have any ipad and im not planning to purchase one? 2) once installed where does the sound come from? from the piano's speakers or the pc's speakers? 3) if i want to record a piano piece in MIDI file, how in the world can i transform it in an acoustic piano sound from this software? 4) ive read that theres is an almost a 50% discount on some day of the year. Whic day is that one?thanks in advance
I read your questions and I have a feeling you have never worked with vst plugins, am I right? You mast have keyboard or piano with midi function, audio interface with midi interface, speakers (best option is studio monitors) and vst plugin. If you want record track on midi you must use DAW software like REAPER etc. If you want to play midi file you add new virtual instrument, chose garritan or another vst which you want and paste midi file to this virtual instrument. This isn't something for beginers.
Garritan using its "Player" set of closer mic samples is even better than Garritan's "Classic" set of more distant mic samples. Maintain the Audience perspective to avoid any phase cancellation.
I have cfx for like 3 years,and I followed your tip with player preset,I set performance preset to,I messed up with external eq boosting a little in the low end area and added some eq spikes in the mid and mid-high.I have the realistic sound I always craved for.All these years my cfx sounded nasal and distant whatever I did.Really thank you.(also preset : newman ) for anyone interested.
Here my personal list of five top piano Vsts, having tested all of them: 1. Garritan CFX Grand 2. VI Labs Ravenscroft 275 3. Keyscape Yamaha C7 (not typical metallic C7 sound, this has some modifications getting a warmer sound) 4. Modartt Pianoteq 6 (software modelled pianos. I like specifically Steinways here) 5. NI Grandeur (tweaking a bit you can obtain amazing results)
I can only advise you at this time to buy the cfx vsl which is a pure success. Stage A is very well managed on the CFX unlike the others (steinway and bosen). Otherwise the vsl bosendorfer 280 VC is awesome
I wonder what settings / mic positions are you using for the Ravenscroft as mine doesn't sound like this? Are you using a 3rd party reverb and other effects on it?
Thats a good question and I hope this youtuber will answer that.. I have both the Garritan and the Ravenscroft 275. The Garritan by default has a lot of ambience recorded. You really don't need reverb. You can turn down the ambient Mic and then uae reverb. Where as the Ravenscroft default is no reverb and there is very little ambience recorded. I would say you do need to add reverb to make Ravenscroft sound good but which reverb indeed. Ravenscroft has its own selection but to my ear they are not the best. Sounds to me like this one has plenty added. Possibly the Garritan has less or non added here. Be good to know please
I bought a Roland FP-30X to finally learn the piano at 28 (not trying to produce music etc.). In your opinion, which is the best plugin to take the Roland’s sound to the next level? Just started learning about all the available plugins, but I heard about Garritan CFX, Keyscape’s C7, Ravenscroft 275, Pianoteq -to mention a few-, are great. What’s your opinion? Also, trying to load Garritan CFX on a Roland FP-30X connected to a desktop PC but I can feel the latency affecting my playing. I can around 2 ms latency but it still feels “slow”. Don’t know if my brain is making this up. How do you load the plugin (VST, Standalone)? How can someone “eliminate” latency, to replicate the feel of a real piano?
If I'm understanding your questions, you can't "load" these piano sounds onto your Roland FP-30X which has sounds of its own and speakers to hear them. There are numerous VSTs/plug ins which are virtual instruments (software, like these 2 piano instruments,, but also include guitars, basses, orchestra instruments, etc). You need an audio interface, such as a Focusrite Scarlet (different models are available) which plugs into one of your computer's USB ports and acts as a sound card for your computer. You also need a DAW (Digital Audio Workstation) which is a software program that is most often used to record multiple tracks of music for musicians, music producers, etc. When you install the VST on your computer it becomes available in the DAW. The Roland should also plug into your computer's USB so when you play it, it uses MIDI (a connection communication protocol) to play the sounds of the VST in your DAW, which you will only hear through headphones in the interface, or speakers plugged into the interface output ports. I recommend you do some research to learn what you need to make all this work - keep in mind purchasing all of these components can become expensive, so you might be content with the built in sounds of the FP-30X. There are ways to reduce latency (and depends on the quality of the audio interface and DAW features), but 2 ms is actually very good and shouldn't even be noticeable - anything under 10 ms is supposed to be excellent latency. I probably misunderstood what you're trying to say so if I've told you a lot of information you already know, forgive me!
Adding to my reply, a lot of VST/virtual instruments have their own stand alone software interface making a DAW unnecessary. The Ravenscroft has a interface called UVI (something). I don't know if Garriton has it's own independent software interface. You still need the hardware audio interface however.
I hate the C major scale, in that it's the "simplest" thing, but it's actually hard because there's no reference. I've played some really hard pieces and the C major scale still fucks me up every now and then.
I think every opinion is subjective. I like a crisp attack with a good balance of warmth and natural brightness. Most important is a natural, authentic decay and resonance that makes sense. These are both brilliant, and relatively equal in my mind.
I'll admit, I didn't watch the whole thing. But at 4:47, for this particular style of passage, the Garritan is the clear winner. Also, the Ravenscroft here has a high pop sound here you will notice if listening for it (not sure if that's the VST). But Ravenscroft is without a doubt the best small footprint piano VST, at 5% the size of the Garritan.
I think that it’s the other way around that Ravenscroft handle this style better than the Garritan CFX which sounds thin imo, however with classical music there is a clear winner and it’s the Garritan CFX
All things considered, i still say Ravenscroft. There is a huge size/gb difference between them. Ravenscroft's compression technology is very innovative. For this reason, it does not strain system resources. Secondly, the key staccato/release feeling of Ravenscroft is very close to the real piano, just like in the Keyscape.
@@MusclePianist Bonjour. je ne suis pas encore expert... peut on utiliser le CFX sur un Asus i5 SSD 8Go de ram ? sans perte de qualité de son. pour des morceaux piano seul déjà.
This is a wonderful way to do a good comparison between 2 pianos. And the planes pretty good too😊 I've had the Ravenscroft for over a year and a half but I can't get the Ilok to work so I can play the dang piano. What am I doing wrong? I just can't get it to work. I've logged in, I've logged out, I've changed the password, I finally just gave up about 6 months ago and stopped trying. And the guys at Ravenscroft are not really that helpful on this because the problem is with I lock
can anyone, if not the author, share the playlist of this video? i recognize a third of the music, but i would love to know the name of the entire playlist.
Ravenscroft, it's not even close for me. Whether it's the actually piano or the VST, the CFX just lacks character. The one thing going for it is that it has a more thunderous bass, albeit also with less depth, your hear more of the overtones than the actual frequencies.
It is rather difficult to compare those instruments in this video, because to me R275 sounds drier, as if CFX has more reverbs applied to it or even chorus. Perhaps this is because of that ambient perspective. It would be better to compare them when they both are set to be equally dry. And of course, from a video it is not possible to tell how playable, how responsive they feel. Ravenscroft is famous in that regard, but what about CFX?
Yes! in many of these comparison videos the SETTINGS can make all the difference in the world. Mic placement choice, reverb and mix. Additionally the playability based on the keyboard, curve and the computer also make a difference. I own the R275 and this does not sound like the setting I use. Also I agree with @J.Lekman 122gb vs. compressed Ravenscroft. Lol. Ravenscroft use to be bigger until the compressed the files. On POINTS for the Garritan, I do know a specific classical pianist that enjoys the Garritan more for the PEDALing response regarding the 1/2 pedals. My suggestion to anyone is do the research, see if you can actually PLAY these on a comparable rig if possible. THANKS FOR POSTING THIS. GREAT!
Ravenscroft is more suitable for jazz, blues and pop modern music. The Garritan seems to be great for classic and ambient music. Wish to buy them all and to be as good like you ;-)
This 2 is my favourite VSTI! It’s truly a piano vsti I have ever seen in the market. They both sound amazing and Kawai VPC1 makes big difference. I waiting for Kawai MP12 ❤️ then it’ll be a really fun. I constantly check about the Kawai MP12 news but there’s good news, I don’t know how long Kawai people can take to release the MP12 now I have already loss my patients can you please because I am want to start my project. Can you please tell me which is a best option in the market for best triggering piano which can feel like a acoustic piano action. Thank you 🙏 great companion. ❤️
Ravenscroft seems more dynamic. I have to try this. Also if you can edit the video description to name all those melodies.. I like all but for now can I know title for piece on 12:11 please ? Sounds like Rachmaninoff.
okay just bought ravenscroft.. well among all others I own - pianoteq, ivory 2 and keyscape Ravenscroft definitely stands up way above all of them together with Garritan. Now differences are that garritan is a bit more clean, gentle and has enormous dynamic range which to me feels almost wider than best real grand pianos.. ofc it's just an impression. and Ravenscroft though it doesnt have that dynamic range but its very much suitable for jazz, soul, gospel.. it has juicy bass and this kind of attack feel which just swings and grooves, garritan in that sense is way more mellow. don't regret at all I bought ravenscroft. it's gonna be very useful particularly for jazz music, but for classical and cinematic - garritan is the best for sure
I don't use any special settings, Garritan is ready to play from start, I just turn on Close and Ambient perspective of microphones with the same gain level and added around 3db more in bass, that's all. Situation is much more complicated with Ravenscroft, I work really long to make it sound enough good, even Vilabs wrote to me with question what I did with this sound because it is much better in my videos than enother :)
Interesting... Excellent comparison. I have tried to tweak the Ravenscroft but with limited success.. Do you have a patch or settings you could possibly share.?
Why are so many piano demos done soaked in reverb??? You can make almost anything sound better with a ton of reverb. And, at that point, they all usually wind up sounding the same. Because all you hear is ambiance, and not the tone of the piano.
@@MusclePianist So it sounds like you like Garritan better. I have Garritan but the samples can get noisy when stacked, but overall it's nice - I'm always looking for something better though. Ravenscroft is on sale but I don't think I can risk $140 with no refunds if I might not like it.
@@DihelsonMendonca Pianoteq gets praised because of it's playability. It's modeling the tone in real time like a real piano instead of triggering recordings, and it can be very expressive. Due to the sound, it can be love/hate. It has come a long way over the years, though. I tend to use it as a side thing, but lean toward sample libraries.
I am trying to improve the sound of my yamaha clp 665 gp. The samples and amplifiction Yamaha uses in this (for the rest very beautiful and well playing instrument) are just shit. It sounds 'boxed' like the 645 and without any definition, specially in lower regions while playjng e.g. sonate 8 of Beethoven. It is a mess. My plan while buying this instrument was to improve the grand piano sound. So I bought studio monitors and a 31 band equalizer to try to get good sound out of the line out/monitor connections on the piano. Still shit. So I decided to go for an home cinema set, and build that in, as well as for a top sample release. You helped me so much with this excellent comparison. Your play is stunning by the way. This prelude of Rach: just the exact right tempo to my opinion. I go for the first sample, the Ravencroft. Just amazing. The other is also stunning but has a slight bit too much 'decoration' in its sound. Yamaha samples really suck, now I am sure. Thanks again!
To my ears, the answer IS obvious...the Ravenscroft is good but the Yamaha CFX Garritan is on another sonic level. In addition, the intonation on the Yamaha is near perfect, whereas the Ravencroft has slight inconsistencies in its intonation.
The Ravenscroft has two or three dead notes starting at C2 on the way down. You can hear it in this demo. It's quite a surprise when you actually play it. Also the discant is out of tune. G#6 dead, D7 too. Thin and hardly suitable for slower parts. If you're going to sample a piano it has to be meticulously regulated and tuned first. Not surprising, no demo and no return policy on the Ravenscroft 275!
