Hi Frankie. Yes, I plan on doing more Behmor videos. All of my videos talk about roasting concepts which can be applied to the Behmor. See my Behmor playlist too. Thanks for watching and your comment.
I would love if you could do a new video dedicated to the 3 phases of coffee roasting. I know you have the 3 separate videos, but your production value and ability to convey what you’re trying to teach have improved a lot since then. Anyway, thanks for what you do!!
Hi Josh, thanks for your suggestion and kind words. I agree an updated video would be helpful. I've got a schedule of videos in the production que but will try and get that included. Was there something specific you had a question about. Can you remind me what roaster you are using? Thanks again Josh.
@@VirtualCoffeeLab Thanks for the response! I'm still in the beginning stage of getting into roasting. I.E. I don't have one yet. However, I am really looking at the Artisan 3-E. It seems like it's a pretty darn good option for how much quantity it can get through while keeping exceptional quality. With that said, if you have any recommendations for roasters that fit in that 2-5lb batch size I would love to hear 'em! Thanks again!
I don't have any recommendations for that size roaster Josh. I am familiar with the Artisan 3-E but I have no experience or feedback on how it performs other than watching the owner's youtube videos.
When I was roasting with a heat gun and bread machine the coffee was good but now that I have a drum roaster figured out pretty well the coffee is amazing
Occasionally I get a “golden roast” on my other roasters, but more often than not I am getting better roasts on my Mill City 500 Gram. It’s great you are seeing such good results!
as a fellow engineer, i really appreciate the quantitative quality of your videos. I am currently trying to replicate the Peet's Ethiopian Supernatural, which is a dark roast they have around February each year. Any tips for getting a dark (just before 2nd crack) roast with a Sidamo whilst keeping the citrus flavors?
Thanks for your kind remarks. I’m glad my videos have been helpful. Generally speaking, the longer the development and the darker you roast, the lower the acidity . Accomplishing this on the behmore could prove to be very difficult. If it wasn’t the Behmor, rather a traditional drum roaster, I would try a faster, high rate of rise with a steep declining ROR. Keep the middle phase around 2:45 long and then with a ROR that will push you through first crack quickly, drop the coffee just before second crack. If your ror is high enough, it could be about a 2 minute development. Now, how can we do that on the Behmor? Hmmm, pre-heat to 225f with chaff tray and drum. Turn off roaster. Pre-heat again and charge 200 grams of cofffee and in manual mode, roast P5 till first crack (which should be a pretty fast crack)and then go to P2 until just before 2nd crack or 2 minutes, whatever comes first. Not sure if that will work but that is my best guess. I don’t usually roast like that. I would be interested to hear how your roast goes.
Great video Mike. Real equipment running in real time giving actual results - it doesn't get any better! With all those roasters you've used so far, there is one name I don't see - The Aillio Bullet! In case you've forgotten, you are always welcome to come over here - ANY TIME - and use my Bullet to roast some PNG! It's ready and waiting! Just bring your camera equipment, laptop, and beans of course, and we will give it a go! That's a serious offer if you are ever interested. And I'm pretty sure Artisan will work with the Bullet, but I have not tried it yet. Still doing manual control, and still debating on what kind of laptop I will get. Some Behmor users believe the A temp is the one that more closely "represents" the actual bean temperature. Remember that when the A temperature starts to show higher temperatures, the values are really the chamber air temperature PLUS the heating provided by the afterburner. After using the Behmor for more than a year, and getting some great roasts, the main things I relied on were: sight (bean color and shape), smell (for Dry End and pre-first crack), sound (first cracking), and time (particularly DTR time and overall roast length). The best temperature readings you were getting were from the front "bean" probe you installed. The moisture loss and DTR percentages both indicate you should have what Rob Hoos would say is a "Light" (but bordering on "Medium") roast. The reason it may have tasted a little darker than "Light" should taste might be the time to account for roast termination. My rule of thumb is the beans are probably about done roasting when you can put your fingers into the cooling beans and not get burned. On the Behmor, the fastest I could: open the door, grab the bean drum, move to my cooling tray, open the drum up, and dump the beans to begin cooling was 20 seconds. If you add 30 seconds on to your Final Development Time (making a 11:45 total roast time), your actual DTR would be 19%. But it's probably closer to 20% if you add a few seconds to cool the beans a bit. My rule was to drop 20 seconds before the calculated drop time. Most of my good roasts on the Behmor had DTRs of about 14%. If you ever do another Behmor roast using Artisan, can you press a button or something to indicate what heating percentage you are using? That would be nice to see! Is that possible to do?
Hi Lou, thanks again for your offer. I haven't forgotten about the Aillio Bullet. We will work something out soon I hope. As mentioned in my video, I decided to rely on the Behmor temps to help me roast, not Artisan. I wanted to show viewers what was happening with the internal temperatures of the roasting chamber and felt the probe in front would be most accurate. As far as temperatures go with the Behmor, the only reason I use the "B" temp is that I am watching my max temp before it overheats. I am adjusting my temps to help me achieve my event times. I didn't focus on ROR because the fan was going to throw all of that out the window.. You are right, some people swear by the A temp and use it to guide their roasts BUT in the end, it all comes down to event times and making your mark. At least that is at the top of my priority list. You are right. Moisture loss showed the beans being on the lighter side of medium but the taste was dirty. Some may even call the dirty taste slightly ashy. I do think there is a "sunburn" factor that is happening to the beans because of that quartz light. It is most noticible when I am at full P5 for a while. I have no science behind that other than taste and bean color. Looking at the beans cracked open they do seem evenly roasted so I am a little puzzled by this. Thoughts? If you watch my Artisan development phase percentage you will notice a 15.6%, which is nowhere near 20 but I am not hung up on that. I have been experiencing some great roasts with lower development percentages for quite some time now. I wouldn't call 1 minute and 45 seconds a long time in development for an eleven-minute and fifteen-second total roast time. The coffee couldn't have cooled any quicker. Within 30 seconds it was well on its way to cooling. But, as another viewer mentioned, it most likely did add to the end result of being a little darker than I wanted. I would have dropped the coffee at about 13.5% which is exactly when i hit the cool button. Hmmm, that's interesting. Oh man.... So, a button in Artisan???? With P1 - P5?
@@VirtualCoffeeLab Yes, I knew your main reason for watching the B temp was to avoid shutdown. I think the newer Behmor units CANNOT shutdown from overheating - at least my 2000AB+ cannot. If temps get too high, the heater is duty cycled (i.e. turned on and off) to effectively lower the heating. Maybe they got a lot of complaints on the older units regarding shutdown. I think you're onto something regarding the "sunburn factor". I think with the Behmor almost ALL the bean heating from startup through to Dry End is through radiant heating. After the vent fan turns on, then heating from the air may become significant, but not much until that point because the air is not moving much. The wire mesh drum probably adds a tiny bit of contact heat transfer, but probably insignificant. I wonder what a bean's temperature profile would look like if pulled at Dry End. I would not be surprised to see the outside very much hotter than the inside. I'm thinking most of the bean's internal heating and browning might occur during the Maillard (middle) phase, or whenever that vent fan starts running. At that point, I'm sure the moving air substantially contributes to the bean's internal heating (along with the radiant heating). I think you identified some heating defects on the beans. They probably were scorching and not tipping defects, right? Rob Hoos says tipping defects occur when internal bean temps are too high, which I think would not be the case here. And that IR light on 100% provides extremely strong radiation that could very easily scorch the outside of the bean. So is the Behmor the only unit that has direct infrared heating of the beans? Solid drum roasters can't have it since their beans are inside a solid drum; and air poppers and fluid bed roasters work with only the hot moving air. Hmmm. I wish I had been mindful of the "sunburn factor" when I first started roasting with the Behmor. I wonder if any Behmor folks ever modified their units to provide internal air movement (i.e. convection) BEFORE the vent opens. I'll bet the Drying Phase would go much faster with that!
Main reason to watch the B temp was for overheating/shotdown, not the A temp. On my unit, i can overheat before the fan kicks on and then it throws an error message. After the fan turns on I'm not sure. By then my temps are lower because of the fan. I have been thinking about putting tin foil inside to block the IR light. I have seen people do this for years but I'm leary about the impact on the heating element.
@@VirtualCoffeeLab Yes, sorry, I meant to say the B temp (I'll correct my post). Where would you put the foil in the chamber? Depending on where the foil is placed, you might block the IR energy from hitting the beans. You would (my guess) drastically lower the heating on the bean since it will then have only convection heating. I am thinking the bean gets much more more energy from the intense IR radiation than it does from the convection air. But that would be a great experiment!
That is why pre-heating is so important. I think the roasting chamber getting to 250 with the chaff tray, and doing that twice, helps with convection. Then I'm thinking the aluminum woul act as a difuser of sorts and the entire wall would be heat BUT not IR. The foil would have to line the metal guards between the drum and the elements on that wire frame.
I roast PNG regularly on the Behmor, it's one of my faves. I find that if I need to pre-heat to no more than around 180F otherwise I get scorching and tipping. I don't understand why this happens to me, and you're always pre-heating a lot hotter without these defects. I find my DE comes at a decent time, but FC takes longer than it should. Probably because of the low pre-heat temp. I roast to 30 secs into SC, and my latest roast on this PNG was DE at 6:30 (47%), FC at 11:40 (38%) and hit cool (30secs into SC) at 13:37 (15%). I have recently tried using the 1lb setting even though I'm roasting 1/2lb, and this helps keep the temperature up for longer. Even though I've had technically better ratios than this with PNG in the past (my previous last one was 52%/28%/20% with a total roast time of 13:30), this latest one tastes the best that I've done.
That’s great Rich. I’m glad you are getting great roasts. 180 is still a nice pre heat that will help shorten up the dry phase. What is your peak temps on the behmor (a and b temps)? I personally think the direct quartz light is causing some of the roasting defects. Are you using the faster drum speed during your roast?
@@VirtualCoffeeLab Peak B temp is 280 (which I reach at 6:30). I don't monitor A temp yet (I find I'm busy enough just keeping track of B temp, bean milestones and trying to make some sense of it all. LOL.) I went with fast drum speed for most of the roast, starting at 3min. Went reg speed from 7-8:30, but then went fast again from 8:30 to end. I went with reg speed at 7 to try and slow the middle phase down a little but then realized it was overcompensating. I almost always get some chipping (which I understand you can't really do much about when you go into SC), and now I keep my pre-heat down to 180, I don't tend to get other defects.
It makes sense to use the lower charge. Since you are roasting dark you most likely wouldn't see scorching and tipping. With that 280 temp you need to be careful not to let it drop much more if you want to keep your roast momentum going. Is that what was happening with the "overcompensating"?
@@VirtualCoffeeLab yeah. I was trying to slow down the middle phase a little, and keep the last phase roughly the same (this was based on what happened in the previous roast of this bean), but I slowed it down a bit too much. In fact, since I used the 1lb setting, I could probably have gone through without slowing down at all, since the fan cuts in just after the start of the browning phase. I have seen both tipping and scorching previously, though they were with beans I stopped at SC (a little lighter than is my preference). Lowering my charge temp to 180 seemed to stop that, but I get chipping almost always... sometimes a little, sometimes quite a lot.
Great video as usual,,question? What would have happened if you had aimed for a DE at around 4-4.5 min,,,max power and slowing up the drum at the start ?, then having enough momentum to get you to first crack at around 7 minutes like your normal roasts ? Maybe the temp wouldn’t have had the big drop after DE,,I don’t have a Bemore so I’m just guessing
Hi Ken. I'm anxious to hear Mike's reply. The temperature drop he saw at about DE was when the vent fan turned on in the Behmor. The vent fan turns on at a specific time after the roast starts, and the time is determined by the batch size. You cannot avoid the vent fan coming on in the Behmor; you can only determine when it comes on by selecting the batch size (Mike chose 1/2 lb), and Mike picked the best time.
Hi Ken. Thanks for your comment. The Behmor fan is gonna happen so by picking the batch size I anticipated that drop. I know the drop looks ugly on artisan. Even scary but I used it to my advantage to slow my roast down. The strange thing about that temp drop was the “B” temp change was 10 degrees. That sure didn’t represent the temp drop in artisan. I could have tried to roast less coffee (1/4 lb) and that would have shortened up my roast time but I’m not sure that’s what that coffee needs. I’m sure I would have figured it out but I only have one more pound of the PNG left and we are saving that for the drum roaster. Did I get to first crack in a previous Behmor roast? I did on the freshroast and the popper. Hmmm.
Thanks for your question, for watching and for subscribing to my channel. You should follow the manual to avoid voiding any warranty you may have. Having said that, here is my interpretation of the manual. I have a Behmor 1600 Plus. The manual states: "Preheat: We’ve found through testing, a more robust roast can be achieved by doing a 1:45 minute preheat** of the system. Press any weigh and then Start. Allow the system to run for up to 1:45 minutes. Press OFF, insert roasting drum, tray and start your roast. Remember to use caution while working around hot surfaces. **Preheat for a maximum 1:45 minutes. Longer times can activate a safety feature that will prevent starting the roast!" So, my understanding of the time limit they suggest relates to a "temperature limit" to avoid. to prevent a safety shutdown. The behmor 2000 AB recommends 1:30, like you mentioned. I interpret the reason they suggest that time is to prevent a shutdown because of the safety temperature limit they want you to avoid. You will need to experiment with the Behmor AB to know what that safety temperature limit is. For my unit, it is about 325f. When I do my manual roasts, I need to keep my temp below 325 until the afterburner turns on at 5 minutes using the 1/2 lb setting.
I have been honing my Behmore roasting method for the last 12 months. I have recently had a breakthrough when I discovered my browning phase was too short. When I increased my browning stage time by lowering browning temp I have improved my coffee taste tremendously. So much more sweetness and more complex flavor. My times may sound off but I am pushing boundaries by only roasting 110g loads. I realize that is risky by my rate of consumption says 200g roast is too big for me economically. Anyway I aim at a quick dry stage, then my brown stage I'm aiming at 5.5minutes. Previously I was more like 3.5min and I believe that was my problem. My moisture content was too high. My moisture drop now 15%. Be interested to know what you think of my experience.
Hi Tony. Your moisture loss of 15% is right in the middle of what Rob Hoos calls a "Medium" roast - nice! Glad you are getting some great results on your roasts!
@@VirtualCoffeeLab Hi Mike. Here is my method for the 110g. Drying 4 min. Browning 5.5 min. Development 30 sec to 1 min depending on colour. So 10 - 10.5 min. The change I made from my original method is only 1. That's longer drying time achieved by lowering my brown stage temp from 150°c (average) to 122°c (average) . that temperature decrease extended my brown time by 1.5 - 2 min and made all the difference. I do a 2 min max temp pre which may be a bit to hot. I need to look at that. Also I have no temp gauge other than that in the machine. maybe i need to address that also ? Like i said, such a small volume is tricky but with care I can do it. One day I would love a more controllable roaster but for now my budget restricts me to this machine. Like your show. very informative.
Thanks for sharing that Tony. Great information. Yea, charge temperature is so important because it not only determins how long it will take to get to dry BUT it also can determine the overall momentum of your roast. Your being creative with the lighter batch sizes which helps you achieve the times. One thing you didn't really talk about droping the coffee DURING first crack. You did talk about the continuation of development until the coffee cools But you didn't really talk about how much of your coffee completed first crack. I would be interested in hearing about that. I drop before first crack ends but it is usually pretty close unless it is a really fruity coffee and then I might go earlier.
Thank you for your message. I just roasted some PNG coffee tonight ;-) Unfortunately I don't purchase directly from farms. I am not an importer. Sorry about that.
