Very good review and comparison! I worked on the MS-5 prototype until Covid shut my workshop down. The MS-5 does use modern capacitors in the filters (ceramic rater than mylar) which can explain some of the differences. The Ring Mod sounds like it needs recalibrating. I will be releasing a set of 200 vintage patches for the MS-5 soon...
@@xntricity6446its easy to check if the ring mod needs some trimming. Flip the X input to ext in, with no signal. Put the Y input to the LFO sine wave. If there is any leakage of the sine wave into the ring mod output then it needs trimming. Hope that helps
Great comparison video. I do hear the difference. The SH-5 has a lot more bite and grittier than the MS-5. It won't stop me from buying the MS-5. It will definitely join my Behringer collection of synths.
If someone can get away with recording an entire album on the original Mbox, Marshall MXL mic, and the stock sounds from FL Studio 5 (and they did) and sell 10 million records, then no one will notice the difference between the Roland and the Behringer...
When doing sound comparisons you shouldn’t go based solely on knob position. Just changed controls until it sounds identical. Parts tolerance and aging play effect
What you mean that comparison that @SpectreSoundStudios did on the Klark Teknik vs Pultec was bogus? Crazy pants talk! That was one of the funniest 'comparisons' I've ever seen. KT isn't even saying it's a clone. Knobs in same position. Does it sound the same? TRASH!!
I totally agree..old analogue machine scaling would always be different..even if both were the originals..that's what we should like if I'm not correct.
The same with all behringers, but especially with all their Roland clones. In comparison Roland/Malekko and Frequency Central with their System 100 stuff, came way more close to the originals.
Awesome stuff1 Seems like the MS-5 certainly is in the same ballpark. Personally I don't care if the same settings result in slightly different sounds, the more important thing is that they can sound similar, whatever the settings of the knobs are. So I'll settle for the MS-5 for 599, as trying to get a real SH-5 is near impossible and the prices are astronomical. I also like the small form of the MS-5 better. Lovd the tunes you made too.. some really nice stuff there!
I think the big differences you’re hearing with the ring modulation is mainly because you have a slightly different tuning set for oscillator 2 on the OG unit. Ring modulation exaggerates the difference between oscillator tunings. So if you have the same tuning for both oscillators, then the ring mod effect will be less obvious. Also, you only appear to play C notes when the key-tracking is turned off. As oscillator 2 defaults to bottom C when key-tracking is disabled, then that tuning difference on the OG unit will be amplified across the octaves. Try detuning oscillator 2 on the MS-5, or play some notes other than C.
I have a distinct and WONDERFUL advantage over you, Sir: OLD, sort of defective EARS. RESULT: the TWO sound SPOT ON IDENTICAL. WOW! What VALUE FOR MONEY!!
also the band pass filter section is the perfect example of the thing i can’t put my finger on with all behringer clones. You can clearly hear this difference in power depth and warmth when you try to get those tight envelopes the behringer just sounds thin in that area and i feel that with all the clones so far. they’re sooooo close tho
Toll! Your music making is a lot of fun to watch and listen to. Quite a revealing comparison. MS5 sometimes hints at a SH5 vibe but isn't a replacement for that mid-saturated wild & woolly sound for me. I'm sure you'll get good use out of yours, though. It should lend itself to doing lots of different things.
I'm very pleased that you like the style of my video :-) I admit, I would also prefer to buy an ‘analogue’ Roland reissue of the SH-5, but unfortunately that's not going to happen and the MS5 can offer something here and there.
Super Vergleich! Danke für die Mühe. Ich habe den MS-5 selbst privat bei einem Freund mit seinem SH-5 verglichen und das deckt sich mit meinen Eindrücken.
Watching this and comparing to my own experience with an SH5, I wonder if that SH5 needs service/calibration. It’s not in bad shape, but there are some things (the ring mod) that definitely sound a bit different. Having watched the whole video, I’m going to blaspheme and say I like the MS5 a bit more.
a synth youtuber who makes cool songs? color me surprised! the roland definitely sounds more lively and interesting, and the behringer sounds more hollow and thin, but the clone sounds pretty cool. I watched this by not looking at the screen, and Every time I heard a sound and thought 'oooh whats that' it's the roland.
Okay! Der erste Behringer Clone, der mich flasht. Fazit nach 57:10: Etwas entflasht aufgrund des hier und da schwächelnden Multimodefilters und leichten Abstrichen hier und da im Lowend. Wirkt generell etwas neutraler/steriler im Gesamtsound und in der Performance weniger smooth - zumindest mein erster Eindruck nach diesem Test. Den passenden Rotz in den Sound reinzukriegen, dürfte aber bei den aktuellen Gegebenheiten im Studio kein Problem darstellen. Man wird mit dem Synth genau dahin kommen, wo man hin will. Mal gucken, ob ich mir den nicht sogar noch zulegen werde.
@@wellenstrom lieben dank. Ich habe Rob Keeble eine Mail geschrieben, ob er sich das mit dem Multimodefilter erklären kann. Vielleicht lässt sich das nachkalibrieren
The sh5 even with the original kb has better tunegrip than the ms5 which glides/wobbles . The ms5 is more harsh while the sh5 is more mellow. Overal the sh5 has more of an acoustic touch in sound while the ms5 sounds more two dimensial, a bit more like the sh1(01) and later generation 24db system 100m…while the sh5 offeres 12db vcf type like the system100(101,102) Overall all behringer synths sound a bit alike and miss the edges in sound , i wonder if its due to cheaper opams or pots ( at the end of) in the audiopath. So nice for the price, but i wouldn’t sell the sh5 for it, sure Thanks for the review ..
How did you manage to buy one of these already? They have not been available on Thomann as far as I know. Unless there were a sneaky few there at the start 🤣🤣 Great review!
To me the behringer “sounds” significantly more available, affordable and reliable than an original 50 year old SH5… funny but i bet if Roland reissued the SH5 today no one would dare say it was a clone even though the only actual difference would be the name and significant hike in price. Well done Behringer for bringing us synths and gear that we actually want to own.
When you clone a big muff the vintage almost always sounds better, unless you use all the exact same kinds and values as the original example (including odd values for resistors) The tolerances are also much tighter with modern smd than older carbon resistors, the caps also sound different. So the Behringer if it can last 40+ years will probably never sound the same or as warm. It just needs to be viewed as a modern component basic SH-5 Clone.
Small differences add up to the point that the MS is definitely not there in way too many aspects: grit, filter, envs. Still a great mono but not in my top list anymore considering price/space/sound ratio. Bummer.
Thank you for this. Yes, It is a difference between them, and Behringer sounds better, however is the question if better is what we want compared to the vintage sound. Its up to the individual to decide, but in the end who have the possibility to choose? Behringer does a great thing bringing back the old classics alive in the best way it is possible including modern functional updates.
These are so close no one would ever know in a track,. Plus who the hell knows what an SH-5 is supposed to sound like. Its not like there are famous sounds that it ever did. This is as different to other modern monosynths as the SH-5 was different to them in 1976 and is certainly Roland sounding. The Square wave is unique and similar to other Rolands.
Great comparison , i reckon the MS5 would benefit greatly by going through a descent mixing desk like a Allen & Heath ZED or a Soundcraft Signature etc for a bit extra warmth & saturation etc. Do you have a BeatStepPro as well as your KeystepPro? Just wondering as I have the BeatStepPro , I cannot play keys but like all the CV GATE etc options in having the KeystepPro as well ? Your thoughts appreciated. 😊
I would say that the keystep pro is easier to use when it comes to sequencing. I had the Beatstep Pro before and found it good for drum patterns but it got tedious with tonal sequences
I bought an original TB-303 in 1994 and when I bought TD-3 it sounded very bad next to the original, too grating and the distortion was not doing its job well, the problem was that VCO and VCA were not in their correct calibration, the BPM were also wrong and can be calibrated. After a few minutes I managed to calibrate the machine and I already had my second bass lines to make identical double bass lines. I bought the MS-5 this year, I have mine configured and calibrated with an original SH 5 from a colleague who recommended this Behringer synthesizer and we did the same as with my TD-3. We did some measurements and testing, you can definitely sound the same as an original. Behringer never gives the machines calibrated and many make that mistake before comparing, I suppose they do it this way to leave each user under their responsibility. So in the TD-3 you have the problem that if you open the machine you lose the warranty, but in these keyboards you do not need to open the machine, they are completely manipulable from the rear panel of the adjustable module, and you will not lose the warranty. Greetings and thanks for the purchase.
@@xntricity6446 I won't upgrade to the Mo, I'm already covered in that type of sound with 303 and TD-3. Everything sounds correct between my 303 and TD-3. The same for my MS-5, that was brutal, very satisfied with the only 2 purchases I have from Behringer and that is fantastic for my tracks. 👍
useful comparison but I think it is more about the character rather then having exactly the same with behringer. Also new fresh components will never sound like tired 45y old gear, like both off them 👍
If i was a professional musician, I would choose the original... but I just make bleeps and bloops in my apartment, so the MS-5 is perfectly fine for me and will look amazing on a 3 tier stand with the Poly-D and Mono-Poly 😊
The professional musicians I used to know (working in pro audio sales) often went for the cheapest *viable* option. Most of them were certainly not wealthy.
@@hulkslayer626 - understand. But if you follow your passion far enough to make a living from it, every penny counts. The passionate sometimes have to be realist too. I knew musicians who used old electrical cable for speaker wire!
@leftmono1016 well yeah, if I don't have the money, I can't afford it lol But if I was passionate about it, I would find a way. For example, I live paycheck to paycheck and can't afford expensive things... BUT, I have been saving $20/week for a little over a year now, and in 6 years when I turn 50, I'm going to use that money I saved to buy a Grand Seiko watch as a present to myself. I can't normally afford a $6,500 watch, where there is a will, there is a way 👍
@@hulkslayer626 - my Seiko is ‘only’ worth around £350, but I like it a lot. I passed 50 not long ago, was going to treat myself to a Vermona Perfourmer Mk2 but felt a bit guilty when I’ve got other stuff that can do similar things. Maybe one day.
Honestly, it's no surprise to me that I like the sound of the Behringer MS-5 more because it's got new components in it. It largely sounds brighter and more 'full'.
Thank you for the video. But i have to ask you to be a bit more careful with the volume. The intro tune is at -2 Lufs. This was brutally loud and the rest of the video ranges mostly between -14 to -20 Lufs.
Constructive criticism isn't hate. Verstaerker not only put his criticism in short and concise language (which is exactly what jargon is there for), he even took the time to do the measurements to do so. If this isn't showing love, I don't know what is!
Reminds me a lot of my old Roland System 100 (the original 1975 version, not the 100M). Yes, the old one sounds a bit warmer, but they're both good IMO.
Maybe recalibrating my SH5 could bringt it nearer to the MS5 (it's at least my 3rd one, after selling it 2 times for money reasons) - to my ears the overload of the BPF was higher on the MS5 - the intensity of mod and lfo sort of influence the max possible modulation etc - over all there have been quite a lot good moments. all of my SH5'es where not sounding the same and even the behaviour was different on all 3. I like the clicky sounds when playing around with S/H and ADSR and filter. don't know how newly calibrated units my differ.
i stopped listening to gear Vs gear. For example, i own a tb303, and bought & tested the td-3, there is a difference for sure, in a negative way for the td-3 though there are videos on youtube which tend to show you the contrary. so now i'm sure there will be differences between the originals Vs the behringer clones, anyway it is a good solution for people to think they own a nice copy, but the sound is terrible. If you don't have the original you won't be able to catch the complexity and richness of vintage gears and when it comes to produce a record you will be disappointed with clones, nothing can be fixed with eqs or other magic wand. Maybe a Vst plugin is same sound and even less expensive ;-)
i suspect most of the differences you're seeing are down to component tolerances, and the aged components in your SH-5. Realistically, they sound as close as any two SH-5's would...
I've found that analog synths of the same model are identifiable as such across decades. This SH-5 sounds like my SH-5, the MS-5 doesn't. MKS-80s, MKS-50s, 106s, 8Ps, Andromedas, SE-1s I've owned/still own keep their character. More likely the MS5 difference is not component tolerances, but the component specs themselves and the circuits designs. The MS5 is just not a very accurate reproduction, obvious even through RU-vid compression. Not that it should stop anyone from buying it and making good music with it.
Had a few Behringer synths, they always lacking something not much character and today there a so much little synth manufacturers which deserve my money more than behringer.
Sounds interesting although the original killed it from start to finish. If they tried a little harder with the look and feel I might be tempted but every time I get one of their synths I feel like I'm playing, and looking at, a playschool toy. Can't they even pay a graphic designer? The original is great but I wouldn't pay over 3k for one and even that is a bit much. Beh synths look and feel so bad that I feel ripped off even when they are $150.
You can't beat the originals for looks and sound, but the Behringer clones come VERY close and my experience of over 30 years owning and using older machines means I don't miss faults, servicing, rare or completely obsolete parts, and crazy asking prices (although that bubble has burst and 'vintage' prices are falling faster each year). I also like the form factor of rack mounted clones too, the Pro-1 and D are amazing for the money, and this SH-5 clone is too. I hope they clone a Moog The Source (I have seen poly source mock ups on line) as that is a gorgeous sounding mono. If they do clone it, I hope they put knobs where that dodgy membrane panel was fitted.
@@knobsswitches mine arrived last Friday, looks and sounds fantastic to me and is a hefty piece of kit that doesn't feel cheap to me at all. One of the nicest synths I've ever owned. I guess I may have low standards though, rarely can afford anything north of the $500 mark. Particularly enjoying how the mixer, two filters, and routing options allow for the creation of complex multi-layered sounds. It's distinctive and a lot of fun. I'm grateful to have the opportunity to try even just a facsimile of the designs Roland explored with their 70s synths.
Dude , I had a SH5 in the 1990s and recently bought the MS5 , There is nothing wrong with the build quality , being a radio technician only thing negative I would have to say is the switches contacts feel light. ✌️
@@andrewverran3498 i beg to differ , the knobs are plastic shaft and feel wobbly cheap , the midi doesnt work if you use a cable longer than 2metres , the price is about a third too high when compared to any new synth , and the octave switches bleed through sound when moved . ANY NEW SYNTH IS MILES BETTER , ie Basstation - etc. i sent mine back immediately . You should have picked all this up if you are an "expert" . lol. The only thing going for it is it has midi , and its cheaper than an SH5 ( not that many are actually looking for that sound or UI ) i WAS excited , now i am not , i await the BCS3 . . . . . ..hopefully they will do a better job .
All depends on Behringer formware updates i guess .good enough for me , all these knob heads that think they coukd tell the difference after a proper mixdown, .lol.
Given your leader Sam can't pronounce anything correctly, I doubt you should be laughing at someone else where their native language is possibly not English. WD in proving your worth.
Im shocked. It sounds rubbish. The envelopes the harshness and the whole charm has been stripped. Your getting a sound thats similar but its not the same.
@@Dudderlyful have you proper Monitor speakers? I work in a studio so im getting a great disparity. The youtubers conments back this up saying it sounds completely different at times. If your happy with this good luck!
Wow! These are both amazing synthesizers. There are some significant differences, but none that would deter me from buying the MS-5. Thank you for this comparison video, one of the best I have seen.
Calibrating the filters can be found on the underside of the synth. You don't need to open it up to access. Just push the synth section to be upright and you'll see a bunch of screw access holes on the panel. Seems there are 24 adjustment options, so maybe some of the characteristics differences can be honed to be more similar with some tweaking.
@@xntricity6446 Yes. I have the Behringer Mono/Poly, which is in the same format. It has 25 adjustment screws with easy access holes. If you look of the Thomann site, you can see a picture of the underside of the synth section. And see the holes.
Obviously too much to ask for a comparison video but it would be interesting to see if tweaking the trim pots on the back of the synth could get you closer to the tolerances on pots on the front of the one you currently have.
from the first words I understand that I listening a Deutscher Profi, very good comparison, thank you for this! But just one thing, a little advice - you need to reduce the music or volume up the voice sound, um die Gesamtlautstärke des gesamten Videos anzugleichen, weil du deine Nachbarn nachts wecken kannst)
@@knobsswitches If not, they might do a mk2 down the line - like they’ve done with the K2 and MS-2, both of which they missed the mark with the first time.
