Berdan to Boxer in One Punch

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This little trick saves enormous time for recovery of Berdan primed brass.
It's necessary to make a punch from 1/8" landing gear wire by grinding one end to approximately 5/64" parallel and smooth. Landing gear wire is a hobby supply item. After some use, it may be necessary to regrind the tool especially if it bends. The ideal length is about 4.5". The tip should be slightly balled. Some rejects may result during this process, but will be kept to a minimum by carefully centering the punch. There is a slight indentation inside the center of the case head that was not shown in the video. That's the "sweet spot." A small punch centering tool would be helpful to maintain dead center too. That wasn't in the video obviously, but using 7mm stainless steel will work even better. No need to fuss too much with centering. With a little practice cases may be punched out very uniformly. The punch won't bend either.
7.62 NATO brass was used as the example transformation. After a number of operations and one resharpening, the quality of the product improved markedly. The flash hole should be about 5/64" diameter and centered so that the a reloading die's pin will have enough clearance when resizing is done. Since this technique required hitting the head of the brass, swaging may be a restoration treatment of the pocket. Many YT videos do demo such, and the concept of the small base dies for resizing is well taken. That wasn't done here.
The other methods for dealing with Berdan conversion are much more complex and also produce rejects like splits to the case necks. Drilling is completely unnecessary. This method is the cheapest, easiest and cleanest one anywhere and costs virtually nothing to do.
As for priming, there's another very interesting video about that. Shimming the primer hole with a 22 LR casing appears to work well. See • Berdan Primer Pocket ...
It's one of the best methods. That method too is virtually for free.
A question has been asked regarding the possibilities of "increased pressures" due to the extra holes in the primer pocket. Those fears are unfounded and were not realized during the test firings. See • Berdan Primer Pocket ...
Use of eye and hand protection is recommended.

Опубликовано:

14 окт 2024

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Комментарии : 47

@mauropellegrini8085 7 месяцев назад

Back in the 80's, all reloaders in Brazil had to do that, because all of our brass was berdan primed. It works perfect for small primer size and for pistol cartridges. Today I still shoot hundreds of converted .38 SPL brass. For large primer size, there is an additional problem: the large boxer primer is smaller than the large berdan pocket. We either punched a crimp around, closing the top of the primer pocket or epoxied the primer... necessity is the mother of invention, mainlythe messy ones... Either way, it worked reliably enough on the .45 ACP for us to shoot IPSC matches. It did, indeed, take a toll on the gun, for hot gases at high speed would hit the face of the slide's breech. My Colt 1911 developed a ring cut around the firin pin hole... We never did it, however, for rifle cartridges because of the higher pressures involved, and I strongly recommend you don't, either. Nowadays all Brazilian brass is boxer primed. I dumped all my .45 ACP de-berdanized brass, but still use the .38 SPL, simply because I have thousands of it, and brass here is still 4 to 5 times more expensive than in the US. I see no reason for any person in the US to resort to this miserable expedient.

@michaelbradford2816 7 месяцев назад

Thanks for your comments today. The US military is still selling enormous amounts of brass that was Berdan primed. It appears that the prices of ammo will continue upwards and I'm sure you know about the cost of primers being almost as expensive as the whole round once was. So, any/all alternatives have to be explored. I found a curious YT video regarding the shimming of the primer pocket with copper tubing. I have not yet attempted that, but it too is something to delve into. I agree with you that we should not be in the situation of having to use less than very good brass. No one asked for this. It's just the whole world economy doing it. I'd like to see more custom brass take off and I believe the key could be Mexico. If affordable brass could be had, there'd be a ready market for it. In lieu of that, more experimentation is needed. I think it's possible to weld a brass sleeve into the opening too. Another option is to finally get a replacement primer that's .213 instead of .209. It seems to me that from a manufacturing standpoint it's doable.

@SilntObsvr 7 месяцев назад

Another reason to convert Berdan brass is if you shoot something for which Boxer ammunition is hard (or impossible) to find and there's no ready conversion from another case -- or, as noted, where Boxer primed civilian cases are several times the cost of Berdan primed loaded surplus ammunition. I agree, there can be issues with primer diameter -- I shoot 7.62x54R and all the Soviet-made surplus ammunition I have has .254 (~6.4 mm) diameter Berdan primers -- that's significantly bigger than the .210 (~5.4 mm) for large Boxer primers. As noted, there are methods of swaging in a shim ring to make up the diameter difference, or one could add a step to drill off the base of the primer cup before punching the central flash hole in the case; the outer ring of the Berdan cup (I've read) is the correct size to fit Boxer primers. Once you have a correctly fitting primer, gas leakage around the primer should be nil -- so no damage to your bolt face, no primers falling out after firing, pressure signs will read normally, etc.

@genevisneski7708 8 месяцев назад

I have reloaded a bunch of 8mm Berdan primed brass a few years ago, I drilled them out from inside the case using a 1/16" drill bit, then if I remember correctly I used a primer pocket reamer to square up the bottom. I bought some brass tubing sized to fit the pocket and cut pieces to equal the depth of the pocket and pressed them in, this also covered the 2 flash holes. After inserting the tubing I used a de-burring tool to put a slight chamfer on the pocket then drilled them out with a bit sized for the Boxer primer. This is time consuming but it worked out real well. I'm not sure but I think I also had to drill out the primer pocket as well to match the tubing size. After the Boxer is pressed in, one would have to look real close to see the brass insert. Oh, I also purchased a tool for removing the Berdan primers and it worked well, I enjoyed the video, very informative 👍

@michaelbradford2816 8 месяцев назад

Good info and is confirmed elsewhere on YT too. Thanks for your comments today.

@Theoriginalbigbrillo 10 месяцев назад

Hi Michael , first came across this issue way back in the early 1980,s in my Dads shooting club in Liverpool , England while trying to reload a bunch of 9mm cartridges for our Pistol club guns🤔 Had access to copious military 9mm pistol cartridges provided by other members, but annoyingly all has Berdan flash valves 🤨🤨 Had to buy factory loads with the Simpler boxer primer, which of course are not cheap then re-load ! Just frustrated by the amount of military ammo we had to throw away back then 😪😪great video by the way 👍👍

@michaelbradford2816 10 месяцев назад

Great hearing from you and thanks for watching. I had a lot of fun making this one. More are on the way too.

@thefirstmissinglink 9 месяцев назад

Used to do it all the time with my decapper and the stuff marked NR. The aluminum stuff you can get maybe 1 reload out of it before it splits.

@davefellhoelter1343 Месяц назад

Thanks looks easy enough

@fredford7642 9 месяцев назад

Thank you for a good and informative video.

@michaelbradford2816 9 месяцев назад

You're welcome.

@PhaggyJames 20 дней назад

This is good to know in case ammo becomes too expensive or isn't available at all, but with current prices I think this is way too much work.

@michaelbradford2816 19 дней назад

Well, "current prices" are pretty high. Even 22LR is high. For those who never reload and never will it doesn't matter. They have to pay the market wherever that goes, typically only up. If a person only fired a few rounds now and then, it works out to buy only, never to reload. The only break I keep seeing is "free" brass or buying the once fired brass that may be available. By the way, the Berdan pocket conversion is done only one time. It lasts very well, so it adds only a little extra time. Mainly it pertains to .308. The .223 is much harder to work with, so it's likely just scrap when the .223 is Berdan primed.

@jonproven9783 9 месяцев назад

Instead of using your wire punch, buy a short piece of 5/16 drill rod, cut it to appropriate length, anneal it (heat to non magnetic and allow to cool preferably in some pearlite or some other insulating material) chuck it in a drill press, file your taper and sand down the rod till it fits smoothly but snugly in the case (5/16 will work for 30 cal with only a little touch up) relieve the sharp edge on the struck end, heat the working end about well back from the taper as the heat will quickly run in the thin material till the tip is non magnetic then quench about an inch in oil for few seconds, while moving it slightly, quickly shine the tip and let it run to dark yellow, fully quench.

@michaelbradford2816 9 месяцев назад

Or go to Titanium without any heat treating, but grind to the point demonstrated in the video. Or stainless steel, 316 or better, in 7mm rod that will be self centering for many calibers. Again, no heat treating required. 7mm fits a number of calibers, but mainly, the 308 would be the one most needed. Thanks for your input today.

@jonproven9783 9 месяцев назад

I suggested drill rod for two reasons, one it’s relatively cheap, and the process I described requires only limited tools that most people involved in reloading have. Namely a drill, doesn’t even have to be a drill press, some sandpaper, a propane torch, a pair of pliers, and a can of veggie oil. Its a great way for people to get their feet wet with heat treating

@michaelbradford2816 9 месяцев назад

Sure. The problem is that they won't get that correct. My rod bent because I could not center it very well. Had I used the 1/4" landing gear wire, it would have since .250" is a lot closer to .30 cal. Landing gear wire is cheap and grinds very well. I've since updated the way I do the operation and it's really simple. Thanks for your suggestion.

@peterdekam4167 5 месяцев назад

Convert berdan to boxer

@stanlong1236 2 месяца назад

You can't find any boxer primed cases?

@knighthawk6633 9 месяцев назад

Thanks Sam

@Geep918 10 месяцев назад

What do you use for primers? It was my understanding that large rifle primers are slightly smaller than the common Berdan primer.

@michaelbradford2816 9 месяцев назад

You have choices. You may reload the existing primer. There's a YT video for that, but you'd need to supply the anvils. Actually, you'd insert the new primer into the old shell after taking out the dent. You may choose to reshape the primer pocket further as in squeezing it in special press. You could use super glue fortified with some filler around a new boxer primer. I'm sill experimenting. I call all of it an experiment.

@michaelbradford2816 Месяц назад

Well, here's a good video that fills in the gap. m.ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-fMBlUzWjw0g.html That guy uses a 22 LR case to set up the hole for a standard primer. I'm going to do that soon and may even make another video about it.

@pauljones2031 9 месяцев назад

would it not be easier and more precise drilling the berdan primer out, perhaps to reuse as a bushing for a boxer primer? Then just swage the berdan bushing into the pocket.

@michaelbradford2816 9 месяцев назад

You'll find such an approach on YT. However, it's more set up and as much trouble. With steel cases there is no choice except to drill, preferably from the inside with a piloted drill. My method is even better when the rod is very close to the mouth size, say 7mm, since it's self centering. There are other problems to be sure. As far as "just swaging the Berdan bushing," I'm not as sure on that. For steel, it is possible to spot weld a precut bushing into place, doing it with one electrode inside the case. Or, it's possible to use copper tubing to set a bushing then remove its excess rim. That's also on YT. Beyond those suggests, it is still possible to swage the head with a special die similar to a small base die for auto feeding rifles, marked SB. That's another experiment, but one I believe would work. I may demo that in the future when I'm more sure it's valid. Thanks for your comment today and please follow all established safety precautions anytime you are working with tools, including the use of safety glasses.

@Patrick-k9q 10 месяцев назад

This looks promising, except for the wire steel you're using. What would be a functional equivalent to it that would be widely available, and easier to locate in a hardware store?

@michaelbradford2816 10 месяцев назад

You may also use Titanium rod, about 7mm tapered on the end which makes a self centering tool. You saw me have to fumble a little bit in the video and miss the dead center. In the end, I got it to work well. The brass had off-centered Berdan holes anyway. Flash hole size needs to remain 5/64".

@Patrick-k9q 10 месяцев назад

Excellent, thank you sir.@@michaelbradford2816

@coreytrevor1311 9 месяцев назад

Wonder what your standard deviation is gonna look like with those things.

@michaelbradford2816 9 месяцев назад

It worked out well. Try it and see for yourself.

@coreytrevor1311 9 месяцев назад

@@michaelbradford2816 That’s ok. I’ve got lots of berdan primers on hand and been reloading berdan brass for years.

@limejeeper2445 2 месяца назад

How are th3 primers sitting in though?

@michaelbradford2816 2 месяца назад

There are some options and some other YT videos. Some involve making a copper washer or jacket for the primer. It's possible to swage the head too, but I don't have the press to do that. It's possible to get oversized primers, but it's usually a big order requirement. It's possible to braze the pocket with silver/tin and then ream it to dimensions as well. Plenty of room to experiment with.

@artifacthunter1472 9 месяцев назад

Beerdan???

@shockwave326 11 месяцев назад

its not a slug its the berdan anvil that ur removing

@MrRedeyedJedi 9 месяцев назад

He does say anvil

@williamcrawford7982 9 месяцев назад

Interesting 50,000 PSI or higher experiment.

@michaelbradford2816 9 месяцев назад

Enough others have done similar things. It's not really experimental any more. All of it's on YT working very well.

@tymz-r-achangin 9 месяцев назад

I found out the hard and costly way that berdan primer pockets existed. I bought a 1,000 count bag of once-used .223/5.56 brass at a swap meet, and then after getting home I broke 3 depriming pins before saying "what the hell is wrong here" I then called my brother to use his bore scope which then revealed 3 small holes in a circular pattern outside of where the 1 center flash hole is for normal brass

@michaelbradford2816 9 месяцев назад

Sorry to hear that. The Berdan depriming requires more punch than an ordinary pin can deliver. A steel rod ground to the correct point works well, but you'd need more than just any steel. It should be large enough to be self centering in the neck. The primer will then come out. The next problem is to replace the primer which may be difficult. Other videos show more about that. Good luck and thanks for your comment.

@archangel20031 7 месяцев назад

It's better to drill them out as EVERY tool I used broke or bent!

@michaelbradford2816 7 месяцев назад

It requires a strong rod, preferably about 7mm diameter to center correctly. Centering is the key. After I made the video that included the mistakes, I hit upon using a 7mm 316 stainless rod. Far better and a one shot operation. Titanium would work too. In the video I used spring steel landing gear wire. I had a piece of quarter inch rod that I did not demonstrate. In lieu of 7mm, .250 rod will center better and shouldn't bend. The blow has to be dead center to work. That's the trick. Drilling is not without its problems too.