Bernie Sanders on Biden, billionaires, and mittens - BBC Newsnight 

Thank God for small favors there. A old deadbeat communist no thanks

@@brianjohnson6053 I don't understand why people, in this case you, throw around the term communism when it doesn't apply. Bernie doesn't subscribe to an abolition of ownership of property. In a multitude of interviews he's described himself as a social democrat. He's quite clear about raising taxes on the ultra-rich/billionaires, but that's it. Otherwise he's reformed banking, created background checks for firearms, opposed government spying on its own citizens (Patriot Act) and been against Middle East conflicts. One thing he certainly is not is a deadbeat. He fights for the rights and respect of his constituents - I see nothing feckless or disreputable about that.

He was too much of a threat to established wealth.

I'm a Yank who campaigned for Bernie and voted for him in the primaries in 2016 and 2020. We Yanks appreciate our Limey allies.

He's too communistic

All television news in the UK is obliged to be balanced. Most networks have decided that the easiest way to do this is to take a adversarial approach in all interviews they do. It isn't perfect but i think having one section of media obliged to provide balance generally leads to people having a better media diet.

Good point. Should be noted that Bernie really focuses on one issue, economics and with that taxes. He doesn't really want to take a stand on culture issues which is where Trump and DeSantis win. (Incredibly, the latter is being touted as a great administrator for how he runs Florida. My bet is that if Republicans nominate him, he wins the election). Notice she tried to drag Bernie into the 2d Amend. question which truthfully, no one is or can take away your guns with that Amendment. It mostly is a non-issue. Bernie is right in that the tax structure in the US needs to change. People should read Pro Publica which demonstrated how rich people fund their lifestyle, they take out a loan, sometimes from themselves, then claim the total amount as a business expense. That is ridiculous. That would be like me a an ordinary person taking a 2d loan on my home to pay for my groceries, eating at restaurants, entertainment, and then calling the whole thing a business expense and deducting it on my taxes. The rich get away with it because the IRS doesn't have the resources to go after rich who will wear them down in court probably for decades. The average American doesn't have THAT luxury. But basically that is what it is like.

because the british media have no stake in american politics

Exactly what I’m thinking

I think this is true for some news outlets in the US, though it's more common to politely "sandwich" opposing points than come right out playing the role of devil's advocate which we see in the UK. You will see the sandwich method on NPR, but less so with Anderson Cooper or Rachel Maddow where interviewees are drilled pretty relentlessly on the prevailing agenda. Still, it's pretty vanilla and reactionary at times. We also have news shows that will invite a guest on as well as their direct opponent, and they are expected to duke out their differences, with the host playing the role of moderator and drama distiller. Quite naturally chaos ensues though, but sometimes we get a glimpse of true colors and what a politician dares to say in the pressure-cooker of buggy live-feed interviewing. It's just disappointing that those particular interviews often lead to more unresolved conflict, and they don't last long before the host says, "Well, thank you for joining us today. We'll be right back with something completely unrelated that will regain your faith in humanity after all this" again demonstrating the overarching nonsense sandwich method we see consistently in the US.

Julian Valiant, I respect your right to have that opinion and praise for Bernie Sanders and I don’t want to insult you buddy but in my opinion the Bern is a money grubbing capitalist pig pretending to be a socialist. You do know Hillary Rodham bribed Bernie to drop out of the 2016 democrat POTUS primary race right? I bet you didn’t even know that the Rodham campaign payed off Bernies house note to get him to quit the race. He doesn’t have a genuine bone in his old crusty body.

The guy who wants higher taxes from EVERYONE?

#Bernie2024

@@credman Trump and DeSantis #2024

well morons come in a lot of forms.

Not exactly. People did vote for him. In very high number. The DNC made sure he didn’t win despite this fact. The Democratic Party powers at be chose Hillary instead.

He's nothing but a turd.. problem is that there's also another turd squatting in the Whitehouse now .. either way the country gets flushed down the toilet.. question is based on Bernie and Joe how many times do need to flush ?

We did bro. The party nomination system is moronic

I voted for him in 2016 and in 2020

We did. The Democratic Party heads ensured he wouldn't win, because he's a threat to the mega-corporations that own the party.

"To put it quite clearly: we have an economic program. Point 13 in that program demands the nationalization of all public companies, in other words socialization, or what is known here as socialism. … the good of the community takes priority over that of the individual. But the State should retain control; every owner should feel himself to be an agent of the State; it is his duty not to misuse his possessions to the detriment of the State or the interests of his fellow countrymen. That is the overriding point. The Third Reich will always retain the right to control property owners. If you say that the bourgeoisie is tearing its hair over the question of private property, that does not affect me in the least. Does the bourgeoisie expect some consideration from me? Today’s bourgeoisie is rotten to the core; it has no ideals anymore; all it wants to do is earn money and so it does me what damage it can. The bourgeois press does me damage too and would like to consign me and my movement to the devil.” - Adolph Hitler, May 4, 1931, interview with Richard Breiting. “Socialism is the science of dealing with the common wealth. Communism is not Socialism. Marxism is not Socialism. The Marxians have stolen the term and confused its meaning. I shall take Socialism away from the Socialists. Socialism is an ancient Aryan, Germanic institution. Our German ancestors held certain lands in common. They cultivated the idea of the common wealth. Marxism has no right to disguise itself as socialism. Socialism, unlike Marxism, does not repudiate private property. Unlike Marxism, it involves no negation of personality, and unlike Marxism, it is patriotic. We might have called ourselves the Liberal Party. We chose to call ourselves the National Socialists. We are not internationalists. Our socialism is national.” - Adolph Hitler, 1923, Interview with George Sylvester Viereck. "Because it seems inseparable from the social idea and we do not believe that there could ever exist a state with lasting inner health if it is not built on internal social justice, and so we have joined forces with this knowledge.” - Adolph Hitler, August 15, 1920, speech in Munich at the Hofbräuhaus. "Capitalism as a whole will now be destroyed, the whole people will now be free. We are not fighting Jewish or Christian capitalism, we are fighting every capitalism: we are making the people completely free." Adolf Hitler “We are socialists, we are enemies of today’s capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are determined to destroy this system under all conditions.” - Adolph Hitler. "I have learned a great deal from Marxism as I do not hesitate to admit… The difference between them and myself is that I have really put into practice what these peddlers and pen pushers have timidly begun. The whole of National Socialism is based on it… National Socialism is what Marxism might have been if it could have broken its absurd and artificial ties with a democratic order." - Adolph Hitler

Bernie Sanders says it like it is? Are you out of your mind? Bernie is absent on every major issues US citizens support. From $15 min wage to universal healthcare. Bernie is a cog in the wheel and nothing more, so STFU.

​@@blackwaterfinance-ft9vz you're a GD blowhard. This really isn't the place for a history lesson. Regulating corporations is not state control and/or 'socialism'. You're parsing your words too close to the bone.

When genetic engineering raises the average IQ enough to rid us of people who think "Hitler said 'socialist', Bernie said 'socialist', therefore Bernie is Hitler" is an intelligent argument.

He never even served the country in the military. He doesn’t care that much.

@@southernfried19 You can serve your country without being in the military.

Thought the stunt Biden pulled during the State of Union address was classic! Called out a few of the Republicans (many news stories on them since Biden highlighted it) and made sure that such proposals were never taken seriously again. (Did you see the video of Scott from Florida pitching that idea to a group of retired seniors in his state and none of them objected! OMG!!!! My 93 y.o. father in Wisconsin who never graduated HS and worked in a factory all his life immediately recognized it and so when Biden talked about it, it wasn't news to him.)

You must not have heard any of Biden's speeches. Or you have a questionable agenda. Perhaps you prefer republican word salad and lies to the point that you just don't know a good speech when it's in front of you.

@@baronesselsavonfreytag-lor1134 I have heard many of bidens speeches and within the last 4 years or so they have gotten worse and worse. I highly doubt the man could give an interview without notes. 1. I know he isn't that young but something everyone knows is that presidency takes a lot out of a person. Compare pictures of Obama or trump before and after you can see a considerable difference. However, they still sound basically the same but please take a second to watch videos of biden in 2019 or 18 and now and there is a big difference 2. Biden is old, like really old. I know people his age gaff from time to time but honestly it's harder and harder for people to ignore. More and more dems within gen z and millennials want someone else but nobody within the party has the ability to win the hearts of others like Obama did. At least when Obama gave his most recent speech at the White House it sounded basically the same but still much better than biden. Granted Obama is younger than biden but still. 3. The only reason people voted for biden is because they thought they were getting something that was like the Obama era and because a lot of people hate trump aside from that there is nothing special about him. At least bernie looks like he can be a president at 81 but biden looks like he should be in a care home.

@@rabbit251 OMG man I laughed so hard Scott tried so hard but failed miserably. Personally, I believe that health care in America is a very sensitive topic but I believe we should try and fix it and make it work rather than complain about it and want to go around in circles talking about it. If more big companies/ rich people just paid a little more in tax then some of these costs could be covered

However much he can articulate and communicate.. it's still nothing but shit that leaves his mouth..

Agree 100% !!!

Exactly!!! 💯

*all of them

Smart? He thinks $400 billion in new taxes will fund over $2 trillion in new spending.

@@badluck5647 At least it is a start and it is better than the current system we have.

@@badluck5647 Taxes on the wealthy will pay down the deficit. DUHHHHHHH.

@@baronesselsavonfreytag-lor1134 There isn't enough one percenters to tax to cover all of Bernie's spending increases. Claiming one can tax the rich to pay for every socialist wishlist is a lie Bernie Sanders says over and over. Every time a journalist asks him about the math, he throws a tantrum to avoid answering the question.

No we don’t

@@abnoco Yes you do. Mr. Sanders is sane in the head. Not like Trump.

The US needs 537 like him in Congress and the White House. Maybe throw in another 870 for the Federal Judiciary.

@@NautyCat Sanders thinks that everything in the world revolves around money. That's the perspective of someone who can't see the forest for the trees. No surprise that he thought it was a good idea to praise Cuba and spend time with representatives of the Soviet Union.

The powers that be (the oligarchs that he talks about) would never let it be. Did they let it be the first time he ran?! Wake up, he literally just told you what is going on! What else do you need, a drawing?!

yup

And so what? The lazy are becoming lazier, while the hardworking are being robbed more and more.

Bernie apparently is living fine for never doing a days work in his life.

@@brianjohnson6053 go away

The middle class don't stand a chance

I consider Bernie to be pretty center left. I consider Bernie’s followers to be a lot more off their rockers. I appreciate Bernie’s tough talk and more direct way of talking.

Speak for yourself. The media tries to paint this picture. It's all divide and conquer stuff.

@@The_Savage_Wombat It's good cop bad cop scenario. That's the democrats and republicans for you.

Nah hes gay

@@alter112 he’s a lot of things but homosexual ain’t one of them

socialist brainwashed bs

BERNIE SUPPORTS WAR ...LIKE ALL LEFTISTS DO

whats his biggest accomplishment that impresses you about him?

@@dw7647 en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernie Sanders literally everything.

@@dw7647 being the only politician to take on the establishment head on

And His Majesty is useless and silent. I wish monarchs were more active.

@@dimamatat5548 Monarchs boot licker.

@@dimamatat5548 His majesty should stay silent, or better, be abolished. His Majesty's Most Loyal Opposition however, is obliged by its very function to scrutinise the govt, not following govt order.

Yeah but if poor people had more cash in hand...guess the results? More inflation..higher property and asset prices.. Quality finds its LEVEL!

She asked one question about Afghanistan, what are you on about?

@@liveuser8527 Firstly, you'll find inflated property prices is not actually linked to people having more cash. Price to income has gone from an average of 4:1 to 9:1 in the UK. Wages are not growing but house prices are. The reason behind house-price inflation is Government policy (Help to Buy and Buy to Let + stamp duty freezes) and lack of supply, building companies deliberately under supplying. Inflationary pressure in the UK is more on business activity rather than consumer activity coupled with external shocks (exchange rate crash during Truss' mini-budget + the war in Ukraine + trade war with China). This explains why disposable income is amongst the lowest it has ever been in the UK for the bottom 30% yet inflation is still so high. Stop spreading misinformation please, well either that or you are grossly misinformed... (Edit, for my first point - I should have said less-well off people not having more cash, inflation is entirely linked to the top 10% buying all the assets, hence why most have 5-7 mortgages on the Buy to Let while a hard-working lower-middle family cannot afford to get on the housing ladder).

@@mimic6494 It was the first question, on quite frankly a small issue when the interviews is related to his book... It was to try and discredit his points by providing an example of where he might not be viewed correctly by most people.

@@mimic6494 But she began the interview with it, an issue which has not been mentioned in main-stream media for over a year yet it was still the opening question - not people's standard of living or growing inequality - Afghanistan. That is my point, it is classic journalism, if you want to attempt to discredit your interviewee, you begin with an area most people will not agree with them on, that is my point.

I remeber socialism - never againg. Do not trust socialists.

The world is FULL of politicians like Bernie. Wake up

@@borovik8714 Do not trust Olgino trolls with broken English.

@@baronesselsavonfreytag-lor1134 I am a troll? For whom am I trolling? Or am I troll without a couse? ;-) Since I am not for socialism, since I witnessed it's crime, so I am troll? Greet Lenin and Stalin "baroness". Gulag is fake, earth is flat. Is this what you wanted to express? Xenophobia is your secondery name i guess. My Engish is far from perfect, but since I am not for robbing innocent people, my concius is clean.

We have had leaders like him: Lenin, Stalin, Kim il-sung, Che Guevara, Fidel Castro and Today its Kim Jong-un in that regard.

What I love about Americans is their isolated opinions. When talking about greed do you realise that the USA with its small population consume 25% of the world's oil. The reality was after WW2 the USA was the only advanced nation with its industry left intact. It lent the UK the money to fight and as a consequence the UK was bankrupt. As the rest of the world rebuilt their industry it was only a matter of time that as the other 7 billion people on the planet raised their standard of living, and as they did so the standard of living in the first world will fall. Its not about money its about commodities. If half the Chinese consumed oil as the average American they would consume all of the world's fuel. Obviously this will not happen but the average American citizen consuming 50 times that of 7/8ths of the world citizens in the time of internet and containerised shipping is also totally unsustainable.

But does it also necessitate a struggling working or under class?

​@@alison7881 middle class IS a/the working class.

@@LudVan70 You are speaking of capitalism, I'm speaking of free enterprise. Main street not Wall street. What free enterprise needs most is skilled workers, that's where government should provide educational opportunities to all younger citizens regardless of their pocketbooks.

@@1T003 No it isn't free enterprise, It's capitalism, profiting at others expense.

You also cant tax the country into prosperity

No, Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher were brilliant. Never socialism and fascism again.

Smart enough to fool you

One of the most inspiring Americans alive, hands down.

@@abnoco Who's he fooling and how?

@@abnoco Red flag and redneck. That is who you are.

Set the legend bar that low often do ya ?

Corbyn wouldn't have sent weapons to Ukraine tho, since he is vulgar pascifist.

Don’t mention Corbyn and Uncle Bernie in the same sentence please. Thank you

@@RKatout why not? Do you actually believe the lies they told to discredit him?

Wow Mulan 121 I'm stunned.. you're way stupider than previously expected..

​@@RKatout don't mention Corbyn and Uncle Bernie in ANY sentence..

The Democrats have propped up Centrist Neo-Liberals and Conservatives for too long.

Well, he is a multi-millionaire that owns several properties, so I guess that's an apt description.

Ah yes, the multi millionaire socialist. Generous with everyone's money except his own

@@BeBe-vh4ry Cope right winger.

@@Morning404 learn how to use commas, comrade.

@@BeBe-vh4ry Learn how to be a better troll, dumbass.

"To put it quite clearly: we have an economic program. Point 13 in that program demands the nationalization of all public companies, in other words socialization, or what is known here as socialism. … the good of the community takes priority over that of the individual. But the State should retain control; every owner should feel himself to be an agent of the State; it is his duty not to misuse his possessions to the detriment of the State or the interests of his fellow countrymen. That is the overriding point. The Third Reich will always retain the right to control property owners. If you say that the bourgeoisie is tearing its hair over the question of private property, that does not affect me in the least. Does the bourgeoisie expect some consideration from me? Today’s bourgeoisie is rotten to the core; it has no ideals anymore; all it wants to do is earn money and so it does me what damage it can. The bourgeois press does me damage too and would like to consign me and my movement to the devil.” - Adolph Hitler, May 4, 1931, interview with Richard Breiting. “Socialism is the science of dealing with the common wealth. Communism is not Socialism. Marxism is not Socialism. The Marxians have stolen the term and confused its meaning. I shall take Socialism away from the Socialists. Socialism is an ancient Aryan, Germanic institution. Our German ancestors held certain lands in common. They cultivated the idea of the common wealth. Marxism has no right to disguise itself as socialism. Socialism, unlike Marxism, does not repudiate private property. Unlike Marxism, it involves no negation of personality, and unlike Marxism, it is patriotic. We might have called ourselves the Liberal Party. We chose to call ourselves the National Socialists. We are not internationalists. Our socialism is national.” - Adolph Hitler, 1923, Interview with George Sylvester Viereck. "Because it seems inseparable from the social idea and we do not believe that there could ever exist a state with lasting inner health if it is not built on internal social justice, and so we have joined forces with this knowledge.” - Adolph Hitler, August 15, 1920, speech in Munich at the Hofbräuhaus. "Capitalism as a whole will now be destroyed, the whole people will now be free. We are not fighting Jewish or Christian capitalism, we are fighting every capitalism: we are making the people completely free." Adolf Hitler “We are socialists, we are enemies of today’s capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are determined to destroy this system under all conditions.” - Adolph Hitler. "I have learned a great deal from Marxism as I do not hesitate to admit… The difference between them and myself is that I have really put into practice what these peddlers and pen pushers have timidly begun. The whole of National Socialism is based on it… National Socialism is what Marxism might have been if it could have broken its absurd and artificial ties with a democratic order." - Adolph Hitler

He is all wrong. Belive me - fasism and socialism are evil! I lived in country haavy damaged by both, they usually go in pair. Forcing libertarians to pay for redistribution as if they were socialists is as wrong as forcing a woman to cover her face even if she is not a Muslim. Don't like my worldview? Well, that's where the forgotten word "tolerance" comes in. I may not like it, but I agree to let you live as you wish. A tolerant Muslim may seethe with anger in his thoughts that women are not wearing burkas, but he won't say anything; a tolerant socialist may seethe with anger in his thoughts but won't say anything, allowing the libertarian to live as he chooses and spend his own resources as he sees fit.

But adding tax hikes to common goods result in inflation. Rich people buy services and goods. That is key to common interest.

@@theinquisitor7191🤨 Bernie isn't advocating a sales tax. The US, BTW, doesn't have a national sales tax or even a VAT. He proposes that if you make excess of so much money your tax rate goes up. If I recall correctly, he says people who make over $100,000,000 should pay an extra 1% in taxes which would give the US government billions in extra revenue which he wants used to fund social programs like Social Security or Medicare and Medicaid.

We must rid ourselves of CITIZENS UNITED. another gift from a GOP SCOTUS.

@@rabbit251 imagine WANTING to give the government more money

The Clintons bought him

Hi neighbor ❤️ I really want to visit Quebec on my next trip.

@@baronesselsavonfreytag-lor1134 a Montrealer here. Love Vermont skied at Jay Peak and spent a lot of time In Brattleboro and Bennington. That whole area along the Molly Stark highway is beautiful and all the little towns. Vermonters are so friendly too. 😎

@@johngore7744 I can't wait to visit Montreal with my husband but after two years he just got work authorization and we're still waiting for an Immigration interview before he can cross the border.

He did force an overhaul of the superdelegate system at least.

@@sirdiealot53 And he still lost.

He sold cheap when the Clintons bought his old butt out for a house

Thank heavens the antisemite never made it.

Don't have to imagine. Just move to Venezuela. They have the same policies as Bernie.

Correction* alot of Bernie voters DID vote for trump, after the democratic committee selected Hilary, they jumped ship to trump

@@idklolz5418 That was the popular belief but it was fewer than 10%. A far larger percentage, however, didn't vote at all. And, yes, that certainly helped Trump.

@@BlueBaron3339 Ah, the great debate about whether or not Bernie bros hurt the election results for the Left. I definitely agree with you on this. I think the "defections" are greatly exaggerated and that the real problem was them not turning up to the polls. I hope to god they regret their decisions. We will be struggling with this Supreme court and all these judges for years. . decades, maybe.

@@BlueBaron3339 All my friends did. Where did you get this 10% figure?

Bernie supporters voted for trump i dont know why but good for him

Agreed.. straight to hell

He's about the right age.

Don't be silly, do you think we're naive? I am a Trump fan but I also really appreciate Bernie Sanders, one of the few honest and sincere Democrats. If a middle ground could be found to help the American people instead of wasting money overseas and risking World War III, I'd be the first to congratulate a Democratic President like Sanders. But never with someone like Brandon.

The mafia won't allow it

He at least would have had executive orders at his disposal

No he sucks too

Sanders has accomplished nothing in his decades of politics other than make himself a very rich man. Being on the fringe of politics and unable to compromise with even moderate democrats means none of his agenda ever gets through. His demand for ideological purity only helps him sell $30 books on Amazon so he can buy his fourth home.

​@@karlosjeffers4791 Sanders does like the idea of ruling by decree like his idol Castro

It is easy, if you already lived in socialsm, then in capitalism, and have comparison.

@@borovik8714 Go sightseeing in Los Angeles' Skid Row, maybe you'll change your mind.

@@borovik8714 - Good grief, man, what a ridiculous comment.

@@borovik8714 He wants the Scandinavian model, and its a easy choice if you compare with the American model

His detractors are either grossly uninformed or have a nefarious agenda.

Oh, he'll run; it's what he's paid to do. When the time is right, he'll drop out and endorse Biden. Probably when his popularity is at the height. He makes a living on quitting and endorsing establishment candidates.

Can you name some examples of what you disagree with ? I'm curious.

​@@mysticmarble94 he's supports Joe Biden........

@@moallysnackbar And you support Trump ... LOL So what's your point.

@@mysticmarble94 one example: I think that billionaires (some more than others) are actually great tools to spread wealth and grow humanity vs govt. Elon Musk is clearly reinvesting all his wealth into value creation and new technologies as well as pushing other people/companies to do the same. Seems like a pretty positive impact to me. I do agree that these billionaires should not be using their wealth to influence political outcomes that further their personal interests. Also as a Brit I have the privilege of living in a country with many benefits vs USA like healthcare and lack of killing weapons on the streets. So I understand it’s not so simple in the US

@@cokyrobes Ohhhh yes. Traveling to Mars, driving through single lane disco tunnels and companies that sell consumer flamethrowers will certainly help planet earth quite much.

It’s like you say, just to rationalise it so the principle get’s accepted is the problem. I’d say billionaires are like royalty, they are in glass cages and will develop a distorted experience of life: we shouldn’t want that for people. Also the disproportionate footprint and influence on society by rich people should come with the tax that would warrant those unwanted privileges, so much so that at a point it wouldn’t add benefit to get even richer.

If we took all the money from the billionaires then we wouldn't be all that better off in the short term but we also wouldn't be a very good place to do business anymore. That money isn't all spent on Warhammer... it is invested and creating jobs, goods, and services. If everyone were above the poverty line... I suspect many people would still want the billionaires to be taxed 100% because they don't understand why they need that much money.

@@ivarbrouwer197 of course, but how many people think like that? The usual unthinking response is “oh you’re just envious!” Or “cOmMunIst!” Or “they give us jobs” or whatever other inanity which makes me wonder whether they are just bots or truly that inept at thinking. The main problem is the inability of actually understanding how society works, what systems represent and the concepts and abstractions behind it. Abstraction is a huge obstacle for people who can’t be bothered to think. With chicken and cows, bartering and immediate transactions things are more obvious. Yes, the cunning will always come out on top, will always exploit the meeker, but the consequences are less drastic. Most people won’t be cheated at the grocer: “hey this milk is stale!” - anyone can see and say that. Introduce enough legal abstractions and “entities” and concepts and all of a sudden most people have no clue what is going on. Corporations - a magical word for most meaning nothing. The legal realities behind it, the consequences on liability. Again, things foreign to people. Banks and how they operate: I was attacked once for trying to explain how the reality is different from what people still believe, and instead of learning most simply attack me, as if I made the rules, when I am just another victim to it. People think that a “savings” account means what it means, that “deposits” are actual deposits, and I don’t blame them: that’s what the dictionary says. Some perhaps think that their money is stored somewhere safely, and those I blame slightly for being so naive. Obviously, deposits are not deposits, for otherwise the bank would have no legal basis for using money which isn’t theirs. Deposits are therefore legally treated as loans, so in reality it is money that is lent and becomes the bank’s on condition of repayment. Buying goods online: again, people think (as I used to think) that you know, you’re giving x money for y product. Wrong. You’re “lending” money to the company. It’s absurd, I agree, but that’s how it is treated. Of course, in most cases this won’t be apparent, because you pay x money, and in a few days receive y product in the post. So it seems you just paid for a product and got it. Fair deal. Sometimes though things don’t go so smoothly, and that’s when the reality surfaces. If a company goes bankrupt, for instance, you don’t get your money back. Oh no, because liquidation first pays the State and all the staff and all the creditors which are secured. Guess under which category the consumer is listed? Unsecured creditor. Yes. All that time you were just an unsecured creditor, even though I don’t remember clicking on “give loan” but rather “purchase”. Again, law is used against people who don’t know it. Money is the biggest abstraction. People think of it in absolute terms. Hey, it’s perfectly fine if A has X amount, as long as I have Y amount, y being whatever amount one thinks “enough”. Only that’s not how money works: money is relative, and it’s value is begotten in relative ways. You can be a multi-millionaire and be the poorest if everybody else has a billion. Once the divide is big enough, money begets more money, and it also begets power. The super rich is not buying you as you buy milk, but he is “buying” you in abstract and hidden ways. Again, people don’t consider this, they just look at money and think of numbers and necessary numbers for existence. Because when you get only enough to live by, then that’s what you think. They don’t think about those who have plenty more than they need, and how these can use that money to buy politicians, lawyers and accountants to buy the political, legal and financial systems. They don’t understand how a power relationship is created through inequality of wealth. People still think in very straightforward ways in a world full of deceitful abstractions. There lies the problem.

@@kencur9690 very, very nice write up, thnx for your reply! (It sharpens my toolbox for such arguments!) To come around to what your saying about influence, as it is now (and will always be to a degree) money buys influence. we can go about this in two ways: 1 - factor in the costs to society for such privileges 2 - money out of politics, insulate politics from the power of individual wealth. As you rightfully point out, the current constructs like companies and firms blur visibility to individual influence. Society allowing such constructs rigs the game to enable rich people the benefits of freedom without consideration of the diminished freedom to others who don’t have such resources. (I might have missed some things, it’s also not a clearcut solution but maybe an interesting way of approaching the problem without saying rich people shouldn’t exist, but acknowledging the costs to society of having insanely rich people)

@@ivarbrouwer197 indeed, it’s not an easy problem to solve, and we could talk for ages about possible solutions. The problem is that a lot of people do not even think about the problem, let alone about solutions. On another note, and unless I am mistaken, I notice you are into astronomy? I have spotted the famous comet with binoculars and telescope - had some trouble to find it as it is mostly just a blur but I managed at last. I even captured the streak with my micro-four-thirds. Hah, that was cool.

That would be something.

Except he didn't.

That's nothing go look up Kiss tickets.

@@Somethingwicked1x already got mine. i wanna rock and roll all night

Ukraine is a just cause.

Ukraine was invaded illegally! We aren't gonna sit back and let Russia annex countries, that would be suicidal.