Something unique even for HorsePower: a GM smallblock built with the sturdy, old-style 350 block and the more modern LS top end. What kind of power will this hybrid make? The results might amaze.
Actually have been building these for over a decade now, we even built a Magnuson supercharged version that made 755 lb-ft of torque. Coil on plug ignition with a FAST ECM. If you have any questions on how we did it just reply here and I will send you some info! The engine was featured in the August 2011 issue of Muscle Car Power Magazine. There is also an article in LSx magazine.
They explained why things are the way that they are. It's for race applications that require distributors and other older parts. The differences in water jackets, deck heights, intake ports etc, may have made things less than ideal. My takeaway from this, is it's for racing applications that require certain things like a distributor. For all other applications, use a run of the mill LS.
@@Shutchohole They make a timing cover to run a distributor on an LS.... circle track has been using it for years. The problem here is this episode is probably 10 or 15 years ago lol.
Those lifters and rockers are fresh, fresh on their way out with the way they sounded on those runs. Ouch !!! Would not want my engine sounding like it's got a half a quart of oil in it lol.
I didn't catch what brand they were, I used some comp lifters in an LS3 once, they were a zero preload lifter design, sounded like a damn sewing machine, but they worked just fine. I'd never use them again, but owner didn't mind the noise.
@@V8VRUte The Older in the 80's TRW 1/4 Turn Racing Hydraulic Lifters were AWESOME..Very Quite and Revved like Solids I actually used one Set in 2 different Motors ..Had them Re-Surfaced after the first Motor with 80+ k miles ..Sold the Second Motor in the Truck after 45k miles ..At that time Standard Lifters were like $2.50. EA. The TRW's were $7.50 EA. Worth every Penny of that .
lol. Yeah, unless you just want a weird engine or to comply with some dumb rule in some niche racing class I'm not sure what the advantage to this would be. That block has to cost way more than motor mounts and the LS bottom end uses 6 bolt mains, which are stronger than even splayed 4 bolt, and all modern seals. They also make exceptionally well flowing heads if you have an old-school small block and you need heads. It's neat but I don't see this catching on.
@@Shutchohole We heard the reason they gave, it's just kind of a dumb reason. This is about the most expensive way you could comply with a "must run a distributor" rule, ect.
@@Shutchohole no they didnt go back and listen to it again. They did mention a racing class that requires a distributor. You can buy a distributor kit for an LS cheaper than this abortion
I was thinking the same thing... so if you change cams when they have more than one for this bastard child of GM motors you need to get a new prom burned... Why not just use a terminator X or similar type of system and get it changed without buying more expensive crap plus it can control fuel injection too if you want.
My small block I used Eskandarian camshaft along with their anti-pump up lifters works like solid lifters but hydraulic bad ass, my 327 is now up-to-date as far as that goes turbo 400 Street shift kit 373 true track rear end. In a 1940 Ford deluxe two door coupe! Yeah.
you lose a lot of torque running a turbo 400 with a small block especially a short throw small block to heavy of internals it robs the power big time a Turbo 350 built is sufficient!
Sorry guys. We get rectangle port 6.0 core motors for $500. They have 4bolt mains with 2 more crossbolts from the oil pan rail. A msd ls box is about $450. This video is a waste of money
I think it’s a cool build, but I would’ve used different lifters that’s for sure. Morel, Jesel or Crane, had to many problems with comp stuff, and I’m not the only one either.
I just used comp lifter's in my retro solid roller engine. 500 dollars so I'll report back if there's any issues. I went Edelbrock and compcams on everything for a old 350. IDK what the horsepower will be ? Any guesses?
@@pumpkin12030 480 horsepower and 480 torque. and if it really is just an ole stock block 350 , faive hudret hose powa! As soon as i just now realised you said solid roller, well hmm could be 450hp or 750 really no tellin unless umm, lets see, super victor intake, 14:1 compression, victor ported heads big solid roller cam, umm 625hp+ on the engine alone no power adders? oh, oh , oh wait you said 'retro' solid roller, hmmm, guessing edelbrock Victor JR heads, or did you get rpm heads? hmmm, lets see if you got vic heads , 11:1 , solid roller, victor jr intake, hmmm i would say more than 500hp+ easy. if it has rpm heads , and rpm intake, and smaller streetable comp retro solid roller cam i say 465hp to 475hp, and 460t-to-480 tq.
No real advantage to the hybrid motor. Get some aftermarket heads that outflow the LS stuff and build a SB shortblock. Less expensive and easier. Hard to beat the old SB.
You get a more stable valve train while retaining the original mounts so it's perfect for me. I have a 70 rs camaro and I want to build an engine that will Rev high for a long time but one day I want to restore it to original and take it to auction
I got true duals on my 91 350 k1500 with dual cherry bomb glasspacks and they sound super mean. I would have them over anything else out there especially when really broken in good!
Can make the same power with a decent set of heads and matched retro fit roller cam + intake / carb combo. This setup is a joke unless you've got more money than sense
Exactly You can already get distributor kits for LS motors The LS engineering is just better Run a good ol SBC or run an LS don’t make a mutant Solution looking for a problem
I don’t understand why you would want to work backwards. A run of the mill LS setup is a easy peasy setup thats stupid simple. Why go the other way and make it harder and have a crank hanging out of the block with no crossbolts on the mains? Just seems odd.
@Derek Young not really as they have been making this block for years now. I was surprised when I saw the title as I thought maybe they came up with cylinder heads that bolt on to an OEM SBC but I was wrong, it was the same old cylinder block they made back then...
No exaggeration , those Pro system SV-1 single blade carbs are super Snappy, i have heard transmission input shafts snapping and driveshafts breakage. An incredible part. Note this airing of episode was 2010 i have learned from the comments below.
It’s great the aftermarket continues to support the SBC! Chevy engineers addressed many of the limitations when designing the LS1. Versions that followed such as LS3 are even more advanced. Pretty easy to make 600 hp at 376 ci with LS, and street manners like it’s not even modded. Think what it takes to equal that with a 383” SBC, and it weighs at least 100 lbs more than the LS3.
If that's all anybody can complain about us a sound of The lifters think the whole conception is a fantastic idea I am old school but I think that combination is awesome with some really nice parks
concidering a gen 4 lq4 out of a junk yaRD WITH 20,000 MILES ON IT CAM SPRINGS AND INTAKE INJECTERS 2 TURBOS AND tune gets you a 1000 hp yeah🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 some like to spend it why i dont know!
Funny how they say the reason to buy this block is so you can run a distributor, then they show an LS motor that has a distributor driven off of the timing chain mounted to a modified timing cover to do their muffler test.
Ha. That's funny. I didn't notice that the first time. I'd also imagine you could run a belt-driven distributor if you wanted. The only reason I can see to buy this block is to be a little weird, to have a conversation piece. It's a really expensive way to not have to buy motor mount adapters and to comply with some niche racing rules.
The main advantages of the hybrid block is the windage and oiling issues it fixes from the LS pattern block. The oil pump setup in an ls is actually pretty crappy. its a compromise for ease of assembly in the factory. honestly a block like this with 6 bolt head pattern is what gm should have produced, but since they were going away from distributors they wanted to save some more cost with the crank speed oil pump setup.
@@bigboreracing356 That's all fine and dandy but I can also buy or build an LS block that can handle thousands of horsepower without doing this kinda weird half and half stuff. If that's your thing, go for it, I just don't see the practical advantage here.
They do all these projects but never fess up to what it all costs. For the price of the special block and crank along with the rods pistons cam and lifters, you could probably build at least two 600 hp LS motors to put that set of LS heads on.
@@yeanah2571 this is more of a circle track endurance engine to be ran hard for a whole season before freshened up not really a budget dragracing engine hence the low compression JE Pistons made to run all night without seeing the south side of 5000rpm unless your under caution or loading it on the trailer
Yeah I'm clueless cuz I'm not a car guy I just like Beauty in the cars and the people that have the passion that's cool but I have no idea what things cost because you know I drive a fucking Toyota. It gets me where I need to get I want to drive to New Orleans for the weekend no problem
Neat, money money money. That being said it sounds like the 53 year old 292 in my farm truck. Makes decent power though I just can't get over that lifter sound.
A conversation piece is the only benefit of this I see lol. Even a stock junkyard 5.3 will handle more power than 90% of SBC’s so why use a SBC bottom end.
@O. Stone they were doing it with less than 5L back then too with 60s tech which was barely better than stock. there's nothing star spangled awesome about your ls engines that hasnt already been done 10,000 ways to Tuesday. The only difference is now idiots can do it by mindlessly bolting things on without knowing a thing about engines.
@@INSIDIOUS1986 no lol those blocks from the factory couldn't handle that kind of power, much less make said power, go flow your camel hump heads, then flow a set of 243/799 heads and see the difference for yourself.
@@INSIDIOUS1986 yea right. i guess thats why everyone knows about this legendary 207ci motor that the drag racing world worships. Next you're gonna try to tell me you had a 66' mustang with a 289 that would jump a coke bottle off the line 😂
If they wanted to get 5 to 8 more horsepower they should have installed a 1 inch carb spacer plate only because those butter flys on the carb should be above to top of the runners and not even with them , also they should side gap all the plugs to expose the spark directly to the combustion chambers .
I had this 66' Bel Air station wagon with a vortec head swapped 327. I took it on down to the local muffler monkey & handed him a pair of single chambers and to install full 3" exhaust exciting behind the rear tires. How loud could it possibly be ??? I'll tell you this brother...ever been to a cackle fest ??? Holy Crap !!! & We had one hour to check the car in at Street Rods North (NSRA) we had to put on hearing protection just to drive it down the highway !!!! Learned my lesson 😆
I used to think these blocks were a good idea. But it turns out stock internals are just fine on engines without detonation problems and the ls parts are well designed. While the sbc has an oil pump that doesnt eat much power the ls has ventilation between cylinders, larger cam core, a cross bolted skirted block for noise rejection and main cap stability etc... The ls has proven that the importance of a forged crank in anything but a split pin v6 is highly over rated and if you don't have to buy racecar parts then why do it? The aftermarket has addressed the oil pan situation and the lack of a distributor and even with the hybrid block headers are still a consideration and now brackets can be an issue where they wouldn't be with a true full ls. I mean if you just love distributors mechanical fuel pumps it might seem like a good idea but for the cost of an aftermarket block you could just buy afr heads and keep the 23 degree setup. Heck you could but 15 or 13 degree race heads or some used sb2 or 18 degree heads.
Crazy to build this caliber of engine with a cast iron timing gear, i dont even use them in stock engines anymore since ive found 3 cam gears cracked with nothing more than a valve spring upgrade. Luckily they chose to do a cam change soon after spring upgrade
@@richardfinney3179 what do you do with your engines, drag race, street or?? Been looking at PC belt drives but if the quality matches most of their off shore junk i dont thing i will be willing to trust one on drag n drive events where the cars need reliability
Think they'd make them the other way around but I guess we can't argue with progress??? Why don't they just re-design a LS style head to fit any stock small (block) bolt patterns. BUT I'm sure there's plenty of other issues with cooling flow and other minor things.
Accessories, accessories. I would have put those adapter plates near the rear of the motor and snuck a return pipe under the manifold attached to that valley cover. Why... I might even be able to stick with oem radiator hoses. This build could put alternator and power steering down low but I want my air conditioning - damn the critics!
The “Secret” to the Ls engines power potential is in the heads. Factory LS heads flow the kind of air that big dollar aftermarket heads do for the gen 1 sbc. So those who say that a decent set of heads on a standard small block is every bit as good as an LS, doesn’t understand the limitations of the og small block (max cam lift especially when using a hydraulic roller, cooling issues especially with the siamesed exhaust ports). these are really only limitations when compared to modern engines ie the LS, a small block can make more than enough grunt for the street, that power is just easier to produce with an LS
and tight tolerancesw and balancing theyre made by robots unlike its daddy the sbc they improved every bad thing a sbc had wrong with it why go back to the dinosour ages doesnt make any sense!
Sounds good at first ,but it's a bad deal a stock alum ls block has been proven to handle 1400 hp or more ,so you will end up spending more money for less ,makes bad sence
This concept seemed quite interesting and feasible ay the time, but it never seemed to catch on. We do roughly 80 to 90 builds each year, and we're building many small blocks from 383 to 427 and even a couple of 434's. As well, we do a few LS motors, but we've never had anyone approach us for this Chevy/LS combo. World Products produced a 1st gen block with the LS bolt pattern decks, and I expected that idea to gain some speed. The selling point was fitting LS technology into early Chevys without having to modify the crossmember and engine mounts etc. Now that several companies offer beefier LS blocks, no one seems interested in mounting LS top ends on early blocks
If the only benefit would be motor mounts and cross member then it doesn't make sense. Those items are super cheap compared to trying to build this over a regular LS with swap parts.
When it comes to beautiful jewelery in the motor AND dependableity CROWER IS THE STUFF I USE Bruce Crower was a total genius at making stuff that is top notch his son fallows suit US made with pride quality there only product
What would be the bill for a kit like this. Everything you have shown? Thanks much. I thought by now one of the head manufacturer would have come up with dual over cam heads? Would take some extra machine work to mount a cam drive system but could be maybe de stronger than a coyote. Thanks for this video.
Kick azz upgrade, you haters make it obvious you dont even own a car yet lol Cheaper than doing an SB2.2.....guessing we would have to buy pistons for 15 deg heads? Like this, can have huge airflow and not have to change everything. Carb and HEI would be my choice. Solid roller, of course!!
To everybody asking why? Because of horsepower losses from oil windage. A LS deep skirt is far superior for strength, esp under forced air, but the air and oil doesntt move around as well. This setup is extremely niche', purpose built, class rules beating that actually works. But for 99.999% of the enthusiast, it is pointless
@@bigboreracing356 my ass is clean and what i have is a positive criticism. To buy a " special " sbc block to use with LS heads sounds about as bad as those lifters . I already have a built 350 which 350's aren't stock for 80's monte carlo's. With that said any time i order something i have to be careful if i do it online with the whole this does or doesn't fit yr car. I can't imagine trying to order stuff on the fly for this . Especially if you want to change brands. If it was a kit to fit any 350 that would be a whole different ball game. Just saying
I don't see the point in this unless you just want to be different. The LS 6 bolt caps will hold more power than even a splayed cap SBC. As long as you're not moon tuning the LS you can hold 700-800 all day long on stock internals and 1000+ 7500rpm+ on forged gear.
Nothing in common with the old SBC but alot in common with a and 351w. Thrust bearing in the center, equal length ports, and same head design with 10 headbolts. I work at a machine shop for a living so I know.
