I'm so glad your a part of the FPV community. Your videos are so well done and so informative. Definitely the number one channel for tech stuff regarding FPV, hands down. You are the king of FPV tech. Thanks for everything. JB is an FPV icon no doubt. I can't count the times I have recommended your videos to others.
Mr. Bardwell. One of the things I do when making adjustments like this is to set up two profiles within betaflight. Each with different settings. That way I can switch back and fourth between settings via a switch on my radio. If I don't do it like that I forget how it felt before I made the adjustments. I also can alternate between race and freestyle settings. Maybe you can do a video on that.
Thanks Joshua. I thought I knew what I was thinking about this but this just confirms in your words. I could never explain this to anyone. I appreciate it. You never cease to educate me.
Nice video to make people think about dterm setpoint. As far as I know, dterm setpoint is only involved in the d term fomula. Higher dterm setpoint causes more aggresive currentPIDsetpoint in the dterm fomula. Therefore, higher dterm setpoint generates more errorRate. All in all, higher dterm setpoint makes dterm value, we put in betaflight, weaker. To use it properly, I think if the pilot has inconsistent stick input, he should lower the dterm setpoint. For example he wants to pitch up 20%, but he sometimes moves 15% of stick or 25% of stick. For him, lowering dterm setpoint is good, since it makes less errorRate for the dterm formula. Hence, less prop wash caused by the stick input for the same dterm value. For pilots whose stick input is relatively consistent, who turns sharply with more roll input, and whose setting is so good that they can raise P term and D term value, will benefit from more dterm setpoint. This is because roll-dominant sharp turn causes less prop wash and raising Dterm setpoint has an effect of weakening Dterm value which should make more propwash in the sharp turn, but pilots can enjoy the stable flight derived from high Dterm value in usual flight. Hard to explain within a reply, but hopefuly it makes sense.
This might be better to understand. Higher D term value makes a quad stable, while lower D term value makes it sensitive. Lower Dterm Setpoint Weight makes a quad stable, while higher Dterm Setpoint Weight makes it sensitive. However, D term value is concerned with a stick input and external factors such as wind, while Dterm Setpoint Weight is only concerned with a stick input. By combining these two, we can make a variety of settings in terms of sensitivity and stability of a quad.
Thank you for the video! I noticed these settings a few weeks back, but never got much time to look into it. You just helped big time! so basically it's the attack of the commands. Throw, and then return.
I like the set point weight at 1 and transition at .3. Feels very direct, but not to the point were it's ''touchy'' and flips/rolls feel nice and clean at the end of the moves.
I don't understand why more people don't talk about the rc rate to me that's the single most important thing i need to do when i get a quad setup and from there of course pid tuning.
ask and ye shall receive! thanks. will have to play with this some. i cant seem to remember if this can be adjusted on the OSD so will take my laptop next time out just in case. i am thinking i personally want high weight, lower transition [maybe not all the way]... but may like lower weight. i really wish this could be implemented into a pot setting so i could just move the pots to the end points for the extremes or where ever in the range.
Dam you did it again... I learned something again today. If you keep doing this my heads gonna fill up and explode💣. Thanks for the crystal clear explination. You da man!!
Nice demo. I am not experienced enough yet to really make a comment however I have excellent hearing. First setting low sounded the smoothest. Second setting had little woo woo noise at each extreme of stick. Third setting rattled at each end point if that makes sense. It was like going from beginner to advanced.
lol yeah I call it my kwad power steering or how you get the crispy to outside juicy to middle. so I can snap in to move but flow out lol like break a hot cheesy breadstick the longer the pull back the more enticing. good stuff teach
I've never touched this as I don't understand. More clear now for sure. Just interested in its relationship with expo and your rates set up as that is about stick feel also to a point. Or like having slightly lower P or something.
I played around with these settings for a while and I have decided that I like setpoint weight of zero for two reasons. One, I can increase the P and D gains a bit more. Two, it is easier on the motors. I put some lumenier 'butter cutter' props on some emax rs2205s 2600kv motors. This is a bit of an extreme combination and the motors were very hot. The giant d term kick was not helping. After turning down the d term setpoint weight, my motors run a little cooler. Still pretty hot, but not as bad. If my motors were not hot, I probably would have set it higher than zero. edit: I am not a very skilled flyer if that is important.
Hey joshua, I've seen videos where a pilot hits something then disarms and re-arms mid flight and was wondering if you could explain how to do so or even better do a video on it. Not sure if its just common knowledge or I missed it in one of your videos. Thank you and keep up the great work!
Betaflight 3.2 is best! But i hope they will add Command Line in OSD! I don't really trust that turtle mode but its nice to have! I will like to be able fly up side down, move the switch in air and fly !
Would having a stick overlay on the video have helped? We could then have seen stick movement times and compared that to the video. But maybe as you say, just trying and flying is the only way to fully understand this.
the info in the configurator says setpoint transition at 1 gives you maximum smoothing effect, but you say its on the contrary ('at 1 it does nothing')
@Joshua Bardwell I bet you haven't seen this problem. My angle mode was broken, and I fought it for a whole year before I finally solved the problem just using betaflight settings. Here is the problem, I start flying the quad in angle mode, and at first it hovers very level. Then after 30 seconds it is drifting slightly. Then after 1 minute it is drifting a lot. Then after about 2 minutes, full stick deflection is not enough to keep it level. I would name this behavior "Worsening Drift". Here are the three settings that fixed it for me. This is the default: set acc_lpf_hz = 20 set accxy_deadband = 40 set accz_deadband = 40 This is what I changed it to: set acc_lpf_hz = 1 set accxy_deadband = 80 set accz_deadband = 80 Now it can hover very level for the whole flight. Its perfect. I don't fully understand why this worked. I suspect the increased accxy_deadband is the most important setting. I really needed angle mode to work on this quad because it is a small FlexRc Owl that I give to novices if they want to try flying a quad.
Yeah, the accelerometer has jitter, but that jitter also has a slight dc offset component. In fact at different motor speeds the dc offset can be slightly higher or lower. So, without the deadband, it just thinks it is always slightly not level.
Hi Josh, as always, i am grateful to you for teaching me so much! I have a question: while tuning the PIDs, what settings would you use for weight and transition?
Joshua, you are awesome!!! I can't believe that with so many viewers you still have time to reply. Wow.. this is the 3rd time i have asked you a question about one of your videos and the 3rd time you took the time to reply! Thank you so much!
My default is Weight 1.0, Transition 0.6. But I am going to experiment some more after making this video because maybe I should update. Mostly, I would like to see if I can keep Transition at 1.0 so stick-deflect and stick-return behavior is consistent.
Can you speak a little about how the amount of D-gain plays into this? I sense that D-set point weight is heavily dependent upon the amount of D-gain you are using. With higher D-gains, I find the differences between low vs high set point weight more dramatic, so much so that the slow bounce back you showed can be much more dramatic. I find the sweet spot for set point weight to be between .7 and 1 for smooth looking video, but above 1 and I start to see a "jerkiness" in the maneuvers that is very visible in the HD video
I encountered the issue recently when flying my KISS setup with the GoPro on it. No matter how hard or slowly I tried, I could not get the copter to ease into center stick - it would always have a bit of a noticeable stop on the roll rather than an ease into a stop. Someone suggested the settings discussed in the video but as mentioned this was on a kiss quad. I'd love to try these settings on a BF setup - but in the meantime, maybe doing a slow roll and stop at center would show the power of this feature better?
Setpoint Weight controls how aggressively the D term responds to stick motion. If anything I would say it affects how quickly the copter gets to the target rate, but not what the target rate is.
I'm having a problem where I'm flying very low and fast and smooth trying to make very smooth turns and minor adjustments to my course but the tiniest stick input results in a rather abrupt start and stop to roll/pitch/yaw. I'm not using super high rates, and expo is about 0.25. I thought lowering the setpoint weight to 0 might help but I see no improvement. What else controls the center stick responsiveness? I see plenty of freestyle videos with what looks like buttery smooth transitions into and out of rolls, and I just can't get there. Are they using ridiculously high expo or is there some other trick?
5:19 So i'm not crazy, it's something i noticed since a while with the configurator, sometimes you set your D Setpoint Weight to a value you save, go away then come back and when you check it again the value you saved is minus 1. Joshua saved 2.55, then came back and it was 2.54. Is there a reason behind this? Or is it a glitch?
I haven't played with them much recently but I will start playing with them again. I think personally that I would prefer setpoint weight to be 1.0 (disabled) for consistent behavior on stick return vs. deflection. I think I could feel the softness in the stick return with setpoint weight = 0. I would only lower setpoint weight if I was trying to solve a bounceback situation that I couldn't solve with regular PID tuning. For setpoint, I prefer minimum 1.0 and sometimes more.
Double-switch arming for those who don't have a programmable transmitter. Basically, both Prearm and Arm have to be enabled to arm. So you put Prearm on one switch and Arm on the other and voila.
I have a really small quad like 69mm mtm with 0705 12000 kv motors who get pretty hot on 2S :D i have already turned D term down to 18/18 ..i figure if i turn both weight and transition to 0 could it strain the motors less then? Greetings and keep up the good work! :)
but smoother movement should cause fewer current spikes to react to the stick movement so fewer current fewer heat? or am I mistaken here :P sorry im just willing to try everything to stay on 2S with those motors if possible ^^Do you have maybe any other ideas what to do? :)
No, not really. Sorry. Weight > 1.0 feels like higher D, but only when the stick is moving. Weight < 1.0 feels like lower D, but only when the stick is moving. Transition changes the behavior when the stick is returning to center. Transition has no effect when the stick is deflecting away from center. Transition reduces weight when the stick is returning to center.
No, because D both accelerates and damps moves. It's a misconception that D only damps. D is proportional to the derivative of what it is based on, so when the underlying metric is growing, D makes PIDSum larger (boosting response). When the underlying metric is getting smaller, D makes PIDSum smaller (damping response). Specifically, we are talking about D term Kick here. See this video. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-XnM_5CH7j08.html
If you are in autolevel mode, use accelerometer trim to trim it level. Land. Disarm. Push the throttle all the way up. Push the right stick in the opposite direction to the direction the quad is drifting. If you are not in autolevel mode then you just have to manually hold the hover. Welcome to acro mode :-) However the quad should not ROLL left or right. It may drift but it should hold its angle relative to the horizon, whatever angle that is. If the quad is rolling to one side and you have to hold stick against it to prevent that, probably your transmitter channels are not centered correctly. Check the Receiver tab in Betaflight to confirm that the pitch, roll, yaw channels are centered at 1500 us.
OK I am flying in Acro mode and all of my channels are centered properly in Betaflight. I'll have to try it out again to make sure that the angle isn't changing (I don't think it is). It just seems to drift away, which apparently is normal! Thanks again for all of your help!
I keep having an issue on all my quads raceflight and betaflight. Where after a snap backflip my quads wiggle left to right real slightly. What in gods name would cause that?????
Maybe if you can post a link to a video it would be more helpful to see the actual effect. You can try raising D gain or reducing P gain to soften the sharp stops. You can also reduce D term setpoint weight.
Joshua Bardwell thanks you Josh. I have reset profile values and will start from there. It's driving me nuts. I'll see if I can catch it on my video and post a link. Thanks again.
Joshua Bardwell I posted the video on my channel. Asking for help for my tune. Of course you have to skip ahead of the vlog part. I don't know how to send you a short clip. I'm pretty non tech savvy. I almost feel like the dynamic filters and stuff have made my quads fly worse.
MBJ- FPV did they just upload it as I looked last week and 3.2 wasn't available for the Revolt, will check when I get back as both my Omnibus boards are flashed and just feels so dialled.
I hate to bother but I was at 3.1.7 than 3.2 and it flew sweet until I hit 95% throttle. This is a betaflight f3, tiger motor 30amp esc, lumenier 2206 2345kv motor. Flew fine until I ever hit 95% throttle. But maybe for ur feature thoughts. The frame is so twisted it's just another rebuild for winter. drive.google.com/file/d/0B9EFMGibaUp4bHk1UmxUb25SYmc/view?usp=drivesdk
you check your calibration on your ESCS? Maybe one isnt calibrated right. You need BLheli to check initial ESC settings too, make sure props are off when you do this. I had to install a fresh ESC i burned up one and learned BLHELI and its pretty useful for checking ESCS and seeing if everything is square up.
VideoGame Polak thanks but motors and ESC's never got hot, it still works just the frame is twisted, just got done with a different build, but as I type now I'm building another frame to rebuild that one.
VideoGame Polak no no lol the 2nd crash cause a twisted frame from the crash. So it was unflyable. Before the crashes it was perfectly perfect. My video link is probably not available to u that I attached to my question/comment?
Disagree with weight statement. Low value is better for most racers as you get the accuracy. High weight looks cooler in GoPro footage but required more finesse. No disliking the vid for opposing opinion, just thought I'd broaden the idea expressed.
It's maybe your feel because it matches with your style of flying but most racers i know enjoy more the highest values because you really can feel all movements on the sticks, you feel more in control :)
Right, it comes down to the pilot. I do still think if more racing pilots tried a lower weight they would be more accurate. I always suggest this along with lowering your rates to around 750-800 dps to the people I fly with. Good topic tho, keep it going*
I agree with Chadd - set the setpoint weight to zero. I would add that once you have done this you can turn off RC interpolation which makes the sticks more responsive.
Martin Budden Hmm, interesting statement. Is there something going on in BF that would make staircases in RC commands when setpoint weight is on vs off ? At first I copied Kababs settings of 1.08SW/0.5ST, but playing with values in velocidrone I find .85/.45 more to my feel (not tested IRL). Also I think I read something about when SW crosses the 1.0 mark, calculations change ?
Btw I have slightly jittery fingers and find that a minimum of RC interpolation makes throttle response much smoother (I managed to move everything to PT1 with all notches removed except dynamic, bring dterm to 80hz, and still get smooth and cool motors with beat up props). Looking very nice 3.2 :-)
