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Better than any WOTLK Classic DPS Tier List

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5 май 2022

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Комментарии : 531

@Scottejaye 2 года назад

The article - www.engadget.com/2010-05-06-icc-dps-analysis-by-spec.html

@pwnulater 2 года назад

Great video as always lad

@adam.maqavoy 2 года назад

As someone who have played both ( *From way back* ) & Pserver meta which is *Vastly* Different. From The Original Retail Servers in 2010. ~ I'm impressed..! #scottejaye - Great vid

@A3racada3ra 2 года назад

Finally, a more data based view on class viability. WotLK is actually THE expansion which allows you to try out almost any specc without completely gimping yourself or becoming a meme. Another important aspect of these data sets, which was just briefly mentioned here, is the optimization level required to bring out the best performance. I don't simply call it skill level because optimization also includes the right consumables, the right profession choices, the right group composition etc. So by taking a look at the AVG data sets and the ones of the "top performers" you can identify which specs require more or less optimization to compete. This is an aspect which is usually overlooked in tier lists. Take shammy for example. So many people claim that shamans (except resto) are trash in WotLK. If you take a look at the actual data, the gaps are not nearly as dramatic as people say. So yeah, play whatever you like. I personally like the challange to stay competitive with a class/spec, which is perceived to be "sub-optimal".

@MrWwoww123 2 года назад

In your opinion, which classes require the least optimization?

@StCreed 2 года назад

@@MrWwoww123 If you look at average dps versus best player dps, it's rogues that are continuously on top. That means rogues should be easier to play than other classes :)

@Samualwallow 2 года назад

Actually to get that top parse the rogue needs a enh shammy in group

@mortekrieger2291 2 года назад

So much better to see a wide data set from the actual expansion rather than skewed numbers from smaller pools over far too long a period on private servers. The min maxing has so little bearing for the average player once you get past the first phase of content

@mikeiscoo2 2 года назад

this is shit data.. it was common place that rogues tricked each other back then. you can read my longer comment for actual information.

@mortekrieger2291 2 года назад

@@mikeiscoo2 yes it was common practice (i mained a rogue) and that's literally the point of live real world data instead of repeated sims on patchwerk clones. If the majority are doing something it becomes part of the average in the same way certain boss fights have different classes behaving in different ways giving you more meaningful numbers with a large dataset. Sims only work up until the point the are real world tested then averaged, private server numbers are skewed with bad mechanics, larger health pools effecting execute ranges, gearing changes (rate of collection and stat weighting) and a multitude of other factors not to mention the number of them using ICC 25 bis lists as a baseline for dps ranking which is worthless in a live real time scenario.

@sidh196 2 года назад

I mean... private server is going to be more accurate. Player skill is so different. I'd say private servers will represent the 90th percentile of players which is like a semi hardcore raiding guild in tbc.

@mikeiscoo2 2 года назад

@@sidh196 lol that’s the dumbest thing I’ve read.. how are private servers with higher boss health pools and more armor going to any clear representation of actual wrath classic… you literally have worse cd dps average. And you have skewed execute uptime damage… how on earth did you come to the conclusion in your head that private severs would be more accurate..

@doesntmatter5996 2 года назад

@@mikeiscoo2 never played a private server but if bosses have more armor it would mess with assassination dmg cause they dont stack arp but still do a good chunk of phys

@belavet 2 года назад

Brother, I gotta say, this is my favorite wow classic channel. Many, dare I say most, other channels pump out videos constantly for the views. This channel doesn't feel like that at all. There's always an actual reason for the video you post behind hoping for clicks. Never change! 💕

@Scottejaye 2 года назад

Appreciate that thank you mate 🙏

@theoriginalbreadcrumb 2 года назад

I progressed through wrath as both a firemage and shadow priest, I can tell you one think: Nothing is more satisfying then a firemages hot streaks, it's incredible addicting and I've never had more fun dpsing then during wrath.

@Scottejaye 2 года назад

Totally agree mate!! I’ve actually started playing my mage again in TBC just getting it ready for that in WOTLK 😊

@samclark2935 2 года назад

I played both a arcane(pve)/frost(pvp) on my mage and played shadow(pvp)/disc(pve) on my priest. I had a blast with both toons! At one point I remember shadow being pretty broken and I could beat anyone no matter their gear, with ease... lol

@davevs5279 2 года назад

a video that doesnt just shit all over elemental shamans and shows they arent to different dps wise than some other classes. already makes this the best video on the subject out there!

@Melaril 2 года назад

Nice to see an accurate representation for assassination rogues that falls in line with what I knew from wrath. Everyone's praising combat rogues and I'm just rolling my eyes.

@TomsWhip 2 года назад

The difference today is now we know EXACTLY how/why/when combat beats assassination. Asassination will be the best average performing spec in this chart simply due to the fact it doesnt rely as much on armor penetration as combat does (breakpoints and armor pen levels). Its much more casual friendly. But now in 2022-2023 you will see very quickly how in ulduar combat soundly beats assassination, where earlier than that assassination will be more consistently high on the meters.

@Hyujin971 2 года назад

Actually, the combat / assa icons were misstaken for each other in the video, combat is the one on top with assa closely behind.

@michaelmartinez9687 2 года назад

Yeah I was always top dps as mutilate. When I watched some other videos, I think back and second guess myself. But this confirms what I remember.

@Mammel248 2 года назад

Yep, combat is better than assassination *once you near ICC BiS *, before that assassination > combat and these logs show it.

@plebiusjonbson823 2 года назад

People that played Warmane are going to have a MASSIVE advantage over the idiots that have been paying wow subs continuously for years hahaha

@Azamous 2 года назад

damn I love how good rogues are looking for Wrath. great video Scotte!

@Scottejaye 2 года назад

Gonna be epic mate! I expect lots of funny rogue videos to keep me entertained in WOTLK from you ❤️

@Snxgur 2 года назад

WOTLIK HYPE WOTLIKA HYPE

@ripstainmcripstain905 2 года назад

Scotte is a pillar of the classic community Thank you for the great content! 👍

@danbill9165 2 года назад

Love this comment

@helpmeinburning 2 года назад

He's a noob

@Scottejaye 2 года назад

I do love an intellectually challenged comment 😂 you smashed it mate Had to edit because I felt bad being sarcastic to a kid who has Hugh jackman as their profile picture , sorry mate 😂😂

@helpmeinburning 2 года назад

@@Scottejaye you've never played the game at a high level. You made a video saying moonkin was S tier cos in your shit guild they did top damage just because 80% of the dps in the run didn't know how to play their class. This video is misleading because it only applies to the last tier of the game. Like I said, you're a noob.

@Crix_Gaming 2 года назад

That frost mage and sub rogue cut got me laughing so hard. Love you and as always, phenomenal video.

@Scottejaye 2 года назад

Cheers babe

@jackpause1088 2 года назад

Hey Scotte. Loving your content man. Thorough yet you keep it interesting. You're likable and funny and the postproduction on the videos are clean. Keep up the great work!

@Scottejaye 2 года назад

Really appreciate it mate, cheers 🙏❤️

@smashingkebab5863 2 года назад

Thought the title was clickbait.... turns out it wasn't. Keep up the good work Scott!

@hughjazz4936 2 года назад

I really like the message of "play what you want, there will be slots for your class", but these statistics look a lot different near BiS gear.

@rubengonzalez3222 2 года назад

It's crazy how ret starts middle of the pack and slowly goes to top 25% even on meelee unfriendly fights. Interesting, can't wait to see what I can do in classic Wrath.

@Snxgur 2 года назад

hopium

@MrHydra12 2 года назад

@@Snxgur I’ll never understand the hate for ret. you guys must really hate physical damage boss murderers. Can parse 3k on twins and still be memed on for being ret.

@Elaksomfan 2 года назад

Well before 2set ICC they are quite middling in terms of dmg. Still bring alot of utility but most of the people complaining only care about the dps meter

@munkeyman6298 2 года назад

My friend has been talking about DPS tier lists, and you articulated what I tried telling him perfectly.

@evilbee94 8 месяцев назад

Most tier lists are just one persons opinion/experiences so it’s nice to see a non-biased list with holistic data. Also the point about having full icc25H gear can’t be stressed enough seeing as now you have to farm a full set of frost emblem gear before upgrading to tier 11, if anyone can get that in under 3 weeks then they’re super lucky and dedicated and doing better than 90% of the player base

@BSwitchGTG 2 года назад

Fantastic find! Very cool to see just how reductionist tier lists are when compared to actual data. Would love to see how this shapes up in another couple years from now!

@mindfull2199 2 года назад

your muscle memory is the real dps

@cixidelmont1008 2 года назад

Thanks for that, always good to see data from a different angle.

@westonXkent 2 года назад

5:25 is the weirdest UI layout ive every seen lmao. Great vid tho love the content man keep it coming

@0mn0mable 2 года назад

"you migt not be average" as an average-andy im feeling personally attacked - XD

@Scottejaye 2 года назад

Hahahha sorry my man ❤️

@MikePW 2 года назад

Just straight facts rather than a subjective tier list, noice.

@JDoeX 2 года назад

Scottejaye is right, when your spec takes more than 1 button rotation, expect very varied results. A dedicated feral can no problemo top the ICC charts vs your typical casual fire mage. I played feral during the beginning of Shadowlands, it was hands down the hardest rotation/spec in the game and everyone straight off said IT SUCKS, DONT PLAY FERAL (Usual "dps tier lists" claimed feral is B tier and had 17 class/specs sitting above it)! Well, couple of months into raiding and I had secured world #2 druid dps (boomkin/feral, boomkin was supposed to be the best dps at the time) with 100 parses and absolutely destroyed the "FOTM" dps specs at the time on the majority of boss fights. People went even as far as trying to accuse me of some kind of botting because of how perfectly I managed to snapshot and time my cooldowns, but it's all just muscle memory and a lot of practice and this is what we are FINALLY going to see in WOTLK, parses (at least for a handful of specs) are going to be more than just who has more innervates/PIs and gear, finally rotation and knowing the fights starts to matter (Though you still want to suck up to your DKs for hysteria :D).

@Scottejaye 2 года назад

Couldn’t of said it better myself 🙏

@majorfarmer5334 2 года назад

Damn I was #1 Druid dps at the same time as u

@DriftNick 2 года назад

I'll take "Things that never happened" for 500, Alex. Edit: If it's the same druid from your video (Mdps on Silvermoon) then it appears I'm right.

@Locthar Год назад

Honestly, the DKs bring so much to the raid that excluding them makes the list borderline relevant

@Pytliczello Год назад

just put them in top 3 - it is very relevant data

@ThePontificius 2 года назад

The title hooked me into the video haha

@Scottejaye 2 года назад

Hopefully you didn’t regret clicking! 😁

@datydabom 2 года назад

love this video. FINALLY someone explained why tier lists suck. literally any spec is playable in wrath its juicy

@mikeiscoo2 2 года назад

this doesnt explain anything..... its just like every other list just with data from a time when people werent throwing 1 person every tricks of the trade. back then rogues tricked each other.

@SavageGameHawk 2 года назад

I still won’t be taking any bm hunters, sub rogues or frost mages tho 😂😅

@e-athletemcb 2 года назад

@@SavageGameHawk 1 bm hunter is good for ferocious inapiration

@SavageGameHawk 2 года назад

@@e-athletemcb not sure a 1% increase in dmg is worth for the damage differential between a bm hunter and stacking another arcane mage or assassination rogue. I for one won’t be taking any bm hunters lol.

@Lolserus 2 года назад

thanks for actual data summarising instead of a video just based on some personal experiences like most of the tier videos.

@QoStoOds 2 года назад

These are the assurances you need to hear as an Ele Sham main.

@Stunns91 2 года назад

Facts I shredded plenty meters back in the day as ele. It's the closest xpac for all dps specs to succeed unless you are going for world first which shouldn't matter in classic

@adrianmlodzik7713 2 года назад

@@Stunns91 I play elemental on frostmourne and destroy people on overall dmg. Its gonna be a bit different on classic as you will have the logs of the best and you are gonnea be probably comparing yourself to them. I do think elemental looses its viability in icc, its much harder to perform well in icc compared to others, its just doesnt scale as well

@zezerat1605 2 года назад

Glad to see this video and a few others that use wider and more normalized data sets. Been seeing a lot of skewed videos/in-game opinions which skew certain ways that only take into account literal bis and the constant melee hype/copium.

@allstargaming5270 2 года назад

Yep, it was better than any Wotlk list. Cheers 🍻

@Mammel248 2 года назад

Excellent video! So many people sperg out about "this class better than that class and if you bring fury warriors you might as well just stop because you won't clear any boss". These logs clearly show that for people who can do the rotation, DPS class balance in WotLK is extremely good.

@BubbaShango 2 года назад

Super interesting, thanks for the video!

@HM-iz9vl 2 года назад

Very good insight Scotty! Loved this video.

@prap7735 2 года назад

Keep in mind rogues would almost always use tricks on eachother, so they have inflated damage

@timopint1125 2 года назад

our rogue will give it to the glorious affliction lock

@thedrunkmanga4610 2 года назад

@mistwalkerwabalubdub6250 2 года назад

@@timopint1125 only the first one and one at execution phase or else he is trolling.

@astralfields 2 года назад

Just like how Arcane mages will use Focus Magic on each other, or trade it for Innervate with a boomkin. DKs using Hysteria on each other. Priests giving Power Infusion to the best caster. Rogues aren't unique in this regard.

@JRTIntervencion 2 года назад

This is actually a fantastic look at the data, thank you!

@ryuksythe8826 2 года назад

What a refreshing video. I tend to shy away from these videos because I find myself watching them and thinking, "Oh god I need to re--roll so I can get a group!" But this left me with some hope for balance druid. I might try and make a new alt that I will enjoy in WOTLK rather than chasing the meters. Maybe something I've never played before!

@Zeph914 2 года назад

I was able to top meters as a frost dk in wrath because a lot of people never focused on rotations or boss mechanics. It’s all about getting good in general and you’ll be fine… mostly lol.

@xDamage69 Год назад

@@Zeph914 frost dk gets giga cucked on LK and PP, the rest is fine, the thing is capping the stats which is cancer for frost dk but doable

@bladeshifts5635 2 года назад

Thanks for this, every video I have seen show those same ele shaman numbers and I was almost second guessing my self.

@dankrue2549 Год назад

Great video, thanks for compiling this data!

@MNPhantom 2 года назад

"by the time youre full icc cata will be out" ive never gagged so hard in my life.

@racant7499 2 года назад

Actual good and informing video!

@zirene5237 Год назад

This is part of the reason I like boomkin so much. If you're doing bad damage, its your fault. If you're doing good damage its because you're playing well. It's also somewhat in demand because lots of people don't like eclipse and you usually want only 1 so there's usually 1 or 2 people who want the gear you want.

@brianmurray7980 2 года назад

Thank you for posting this video. So many private server hardcores putting out crazy stuff.

@MrRobschnieder 2 года назад

I think this is an important video, one of the best things about WOTLK is not only is every class viable and desirable but nearly every spec (not all but nearly all of them). Get to finally play what you really want and enjoy it.

@HateMeCauseIMFat 2 года назад

Boomkin is probably that high on Rotface because Starfall cleaves the shit out of all the adds.

@Firehex1 2 года назад

It's nice what shadow priest from just mana battery and warlock buffer will evolve to decent dps =)

@Sloshbu 2 года назад

Be careful comparing top logs to average logs. The biggest thing that affects the differences is not skill but fight length. Raid dps is a huge spike for everyone at the start, then a series of valleys and peaks whose frequency and intensity depends on CDs. If the fight ends on a valley for your spec but a peak for someone else's your spec will look worse.

@CoffeeTheFreshmaker Год назад

Specific fight mechanics too. Tanking festergut to start with in bear as feral dps will be a massive dps boost due to the tank debuff. Don't know if other melee can do it but yea

@leemo4454 2 года назад

This is your best wrath video to date. Gj man

@skar4276 2 года назад

Great vid scotte, refreshing to see this alternative perspective with historical data

@mddns9170 2 года назад

Affli lock tops almost all fights in naxx, ulduar, togc and icc. When u reach endgame (icc 25hc ilvl), fire mage will be top on most fights.

@Valvad0ss 2 года назад

Really good video as always. Thank you!

@graceybfrg 2 года назад

That difference between 11.7 dps and 9.5 will still show a massive %parse difference its like 23% difference.

@mouth472 2 года назад

Thanks! I feel better sticking with my enhance shaman.

@tehdanny682 2 года назад

yooo I haven't heard the name "Elitist Jerks" in a looong time

@0mn0mable 2 года назад

high quality vid and analysis, well done my boy!

@marchornung3959 2 года назад

Great video m8, really enjoyed it!

@aidasmatulaitis5175 Год назад

one of the best top3 classic creators by far for me

@sniperdps 2 года назад

True. And we also say "meeeeeleeeee" nowadays instead of melee. :)

@sniperdps 2 года назад

I promise that was meant in good spirits. Love the channel, mate. :)

@tomsakmens5571 2 года назад

Great vid, only nitpick is the bar graphs not starting at 0 thus giving a misleading picture that the lowest DPS is that much lower than the rest.

@rocketsurgeon1349 2 года назад

Don't forget that some specs are more reliant on rng for top parses than others, procs and crits at the right time. Something to keep in mind when looking at only top 200 parses.

@BummedProductions 2 года назад

The top 200 logs are usually being fed PI/Innervate and other externals.

@NazSef 2 года назад

in retail WOTLK I was an altoholic and I was usually top DPS with whatever I played (mostly mage, hunter and feral druid). "Bring the player, not the class" is true.

@digitalphreak 2 года назад

The only Tier list video anyone should care about because all of the tier lists I've seen doesn't match with my memory. I remember which classes were good when being played by good players. Most of this tier lists are just straight sucking off DKs but I remember them being like every other class/spec. You'll have your bosses that you will shine on. And some bosses you'll be shit. But there were about 5 specs consistently near the top. Usually melee and warlocks from Ulduar on. Most non PvP dmg specs were pretty balanced when being played optimally. In WOTLK the specs have a ton of room for error. Clipping a dot and resource mismanagement for instance were common errors amongst players and this had a rather big impact to dps over the course of a fight if you made this mistake repeatedly. So he's right. If you're a top %5 player. Do what you want. It'll be good and if you can have fun playing what you want while doing it, even better.

@brandonvietheer4126 2 года назад

Thanks Scotty think I'll continue with my ele shaman.

@jeff8839 2 года назад

Fury warrior does for a fact have the potential to MURDER every other class and spec with DPS. Gonna dual spec it for when i get tired of tankin

@GalloPhilips 2 года назад

Love the way you say "data".

@nimblelafitte1923 2 года назад

Love all the content man! Appreciate your work. The comment is just for support really :)

@Scottejaye 2 года назад

Appreciate it thank you mate 🙏

@treemustach 2 года назад

This kind of variability is basically what I was expecting. Then also it seems, rogue are op as fuck! 😂

@ericdavion9693 2 года назад

Rogues are the best melee for melee unfriendly fights in WoTLK. With cloak and the change to feint they can ignore so much.

@ryanbruce3670 2 года назад

@@ericdavion9693 ams and bone shield are also great on dk for same thing, having sprint makes rogues the best tho for sure

@kfiercescene Год назад

I remember world of logs a couple my toons made the top 10/20 in ICC back then and even did it with BM spec hunter

@onechunkyboi 2 года назад

subscribed. good content my man

@Scottejaye 2 года назад

Cheers mate ❤️

@jared7643 2 года назад

As a diehard Dagger Rogue, it's nice to know that I won't be getting left in the dust in ICC like all tier lists I've seen say I will.

@thedrunkmanga4610 2 года назад

Combat is better

@CanielDonrad 2 года назад

This very accurate to how I remember.

@Scottejaye 2 года назад

Absolutely agree mate same here

@westonwright5029 2 года назад

When I played wrath, I remember showing up to raid with a spec I threw together myself. My gear, was just whatever I happened to come across and seemed good lmao. In 2022 I'm binge watching tierlist videos to figure out if ele shaman will be good enough in PVE because I want to arena on them so badly.

@Lordturisas1 2 года назад

No good guild will take an Ele shaman. Casual guilds will, and the expansion is a lot more forgiving than TBC, so casual guilds will have an easier time.

@DrRhyhm 2 года назад

@@Lordturisas1 "good guild" yeah okay, we are farming BT and ready for Sunwell atm but we still let people play whatever they want, we dont be realm first but who cares for that anyway

@Toast-cc7gr 2 года назад

I've been doing the same thing, the general consensus I've found is, unless your looking for world firsts or hard-core speed running, ele is fine not "optimal" but fine

@a.x.w 2 года назад

Don't worry, you won't really need any PvE gear for arena.

@brandonkruse6412 2 года назад

With 30% buff ICC, you can bring just about any class comp. Same with Ulduar and ToGC, very easy expansion.

@Dangerous1939 2 года назад

Did you see how many guilds struggled on KT / Lady vashj pre-nerf already? It's gonna be a challenge for a lot of casual guilds

@Hari-on1sf 2 года назад

Stop bullshitting, it wasn't as easy as you make it out to be.

@brandonkruse6412 2 года назад

@@Dangerous1939 Nobody is going to struggle on Naxx unless they’re playing overtuned private servers. It’s so easy, guilds can run it with half raid capacity for less loot competition. I’ve seen guilds break off and spread their raid out in two teams to clear trash faster. Giving Naxx bosses more health isn’t harder, it just adds an extra few minutes on each kill. The average raid group shouldn’t struggle at all in Wrath.

@brandonkruse6412 2 года назад

@@Hari-on1sf It is that easy. I’ve played private servers for years with overtuned content and even that isn’t hard. Unless you’re doing hardmode fights in Ulduar, the content is not mechanically difficult and there are so many loot pińata raids that hand out free tier like VoA and ToGC.

@Dangerous1939 2 года назад

@@brandonkruse6412 Well i was obviously not talking about Naxx. Everyone knows its a joke. I was talking about Ulduar hardmodes and ICC hc

@heroldjaras9909 2 года назад

just play whats fun for you. in every expansion there is an another higher dps class. but it doesnt make sense to change class everytime in every expansion just to be best dps, just play the class you like. doesnt matter if its the best dps or not, raids will still need you for buffs.

@jeremydaily 2 года назад

Good video really highlighting the glaring flaw within all these ZOMGTIERLISTTIME videos. Easy and quick to digest too.

@Scottejaye 2 года назад

Glad it was helpful!

@toddswansiger5830 2 года назад

Just paid for one year of restedxp using your link. I love it, but I'm now making a Paladin! Edit: using your link

@Scottejaye 2 года назад

Legend, cheers mate. All helps supporting the channel so I am extremely grateful 🙏

@Alexandros.Mograine Год назад

To anyone planning to play a hunter: be sure you know what you are getting yourself into.

@jasonweiss3160 2 года назад

This tier list was actually useful.

@flexprog3374 2 года назад

I really wonder about assassination rogue on these charts, in icc there is a lot of armor pen gear and combat should be favored. Also top arcane mage numbers might be skewed by stacking multiple innervations on them. The rest of the classes really makes sense especially on the top dps chart which is quite even, but if rogue is already far above everyone else at normal ICC gear, it's just going to be broken as hell with endgame gear.

@danieldeziel6830 2 года назад

I played assassination rogue back in the day and I was on top basically on every fight, even in icc. This is why I am so surprised to see so many 'tier list' putting them at the average ranking. Looking at this video, this is much more representative to what I remember. I get your point about armor pen, but from my memory, no class could pump single target like an assassination rogue could. Time will tell though if private servers are wrong or if people just learned to play better and closed the gap.

@kbc8090 2 года назад

Also played assassination early on in ICC when I got that energy restoring dagger (which i said was always very broken from the first day i used it). Between that, resto druid energy restore, and the tricks energy restore from the tier bonus, plus vanish you were basically flooded with energy on most fights and probably had ~85% uptime on envenom. I still have videos on my channel from 12 years ago of some of our fights. I ended up going Combat at some point though probably after getting that heroic axe from ToC, we had a revolving door of 3rd rogue slots so we needed the 4% dmg at some point. --Zerix of

@v2occy809 2 года назад

The chart icons are wrong.

@v2occy809 2 года назад

@@shanehodges6980 Log into TBC and see what icon the combat and assassination tree looks like.

@doesntmatter5996 2 года назад

@@shanehodges6980 there is a legend at 43s in video

@zynthexthezane 11 месяцев назад

When not sure, if you like melee play paladin, if you like casters play druid. They're the most versatile ones 'coz you can always heal or tank with both.

@raider762 2 года назад

I was in the top 40 warriors on Mok Nathal US back in the day.

@ole2522 2 года назад

Been great to have some data set on t7 content to, but i guess logging was not that common back then

@Scottejaye 2 года назад

I’m digging for anything as accurate and large in terms of data set as this, but you’re right it wasn’t as common and a lot more difficult to find anything reliable

@Quarter324 Год назад

WotLK is out now and it's my first time raiding as an Enhancement shammy. The first time I went looking for groups (found a guild, met some folks, etc.) I was turned away due to my class. This was a small handful of people on the server, mind you, but a lot of the folks who turned me away still cling to early-day stigmas about "this class is trash, it's a meme" etc. I've since found some good folks, but it was tough for a while - I'm by no means an amazing player nor does my Shammy have BIS gear btw, just willing and ready to play the fucking game lol.

@Sevisija 2 года назад

Not dissapointed as a Hunter main

@Hamitwow 2 года назад

Combat would be ahead of assassination because people weren't stacking as much armor pen back then. Same logic applies to other aspects for every other spec. That tier list is super subjective obviously, we know that. But I just wanted to make it clear for people coming across the comment.

@Scottejaye 2 года назад

Hang on I need to address this properly. Firstly why wasn’t people stacking as much armour pen? I played hardcore in original worlk and myself, our other feral, all combat rogues, warriors and MM hunters were hard capped? Everything that is known from private servers in regards to stat weights is based on original WOTLK. Using armour pen as an example it’s precisely why it got increased in terms of numbers needed in 3.2.2 is because EVERYONE knew how powerful it was.

@Hyujin971 2 года назад

Actually, combat is the one on top. The icons were misstaken.

@thockyslush 2 года назад

another banger scotte !!!

@Bobis32 2 года назад

seeing the Blood DPS on festergut makes me happy ive been trying to explain to people blood is perfectly capable of good DPS but i see a whole bunch of people saying its completly unviable i remember 25m 30% buff fights where i was breaking 18k dps on my blood dps Spec

@Askhat08 2 года назад

18k is nothing by today's standards. Top specs (fire and fury) are sitting on 24-25k, other strong ones like Affliction are like 22-23k.

@bendrix92 Год назад

its also worth keeping in mind how classes affect others and how useful some classes are to have in a raid regardless of where they really stand on the charts. Frost DKs for just one example providing a very useful haste buff to the raid. Play what you find is fun/cool, get half assed competent at your role and you will do fine

@silenceoftheyams7647 2 года назад

I will always play a frost mage with a fire mage name and there is nothing you can do to stop me.

@shaunsullivan4052 2 года назад

Ok, now this is more like it, I mained boomkin back in the day, my guild was consistently clearing heroic 25s/hardmodes/etc...and I was always crushing the meters, near the top on every fight....these graphs of top 200 are definitely more in line with my memory of wotlk

@danbill9165 2 года назад

Great video , some of the other videos out there are garbage

@GameDevMadeEasy 2 года назад

I distinctly remember pushing 8k dps as a destro lock back in Wrath. And Kohouri (my lock) was NOT in full BiS gear. And I also remember my Demo spec did around 6 to 7k. (Note: I was in 10m raids and not 25m)

@David-hs1bu 2 года назад

dps is not enough for progress, destro dps doesnt matter when affli does the same while healing for 30% of his dps every sec. oh and destro has no execute which harder fights are all about. those dps lists make ppl think it makes their any spec great, but it doesnt.

@GameDevMadeEasy 2 года назад

@@David-hs1bu If you aren't standing in stupid, the self heal isn't really needed as much. And Destro is a constant execute for dps. No ramp up time, just blasting. By the time wrath was just about over, Destro for me was easily pushing 10k dps in 10 man groups.

@neugassh3570 2 года назад

Plus there was no spell queue back then...its kinda nice for caster dps.

@Nartorz 2 года назад

I have been playing warlock on multiple PS (and retail tlk) and i can tell you that good Affli warlock are going to do INSANE damage if supported well (open with TOT/prepot/snapshoting corruption/TOT@35%...). If you play Demonology Warlock your spec is way easier to play and requires way less meta-knowledge but you bring the best SP buff in the game (scaling with you own stats), so 1 demono warlock is almost mandatory if you play a heavy caster group in 10M and you should nearly always bring one in 25M besause of the insane SP-buff they bring.

@iridimite1563 2 года назад

Snapshotting corruption LOL!!! demo is easier? You’re clueless. Demo is the harder spec 10/10. Snapshotting demonic pact is actually going to happen. Anyone “Snapshotting” corruption outside of tricks is a fool. Demo has to actually worry about using your pet properly and managing spell power buffs. Affliction is brain dead easy to top the meters.

@Myrrden 2 года назад

This has me excited about playing a fury warrior in Wrath.

@esaualfaro3447 2 года назад

This is a really good video°!

@TheRationalPi 2 года назад

Wow, look at the jump for arcane mage between average and top200! From middle of the pack almost to the top. Amazing to see my suspicions about that spec's skill ceiling borne out in the stats. I had so much fun playing Arcane mage back in the day, but conventional wisdom said that fire mage was the better choice in ICC. Good to see it being viable all the way through the expansion.

@miraage 2 года назад

Something tells me those top200 arcane mages were just giga overbuffed by the raid, like we had arcane mages in TBCC p2 with 50 innervates and 40 PIs vs my mage 0 innervates at all.

@TheRationalPi 2 года назад

@@miraage Probably true, since Arcane mages are well known to scale better with those cooldowns than other casters they tend to vacuum up raid resources. To put numbers to it, for the average festergut arcane mages are 1.4k lower than fire mages and the top 200 are 0.1k above fire mages. Hypothetically, we could break that 1.5k swing down as something like 1k from skill ceiling and 0.5k from getting additional cooldowns. Given that arcane mages do scale better with cooldowns than other casters, you might then break that 0.5k down as 0.3k that could be utilized by any caster and 0.2k as a bonus for stacking cooldowns on the arcane mage. The arcane mage should still get credit for their bonus scaling, but the 0.3k worth of cooldown's DPS could be discounted from the arcane mage. If you do that, then the arcane mage would still lag 0.2k DPS behind a fire mage in that same slot. Even if my numbers are way off, it wouldn't really take much to make up that 0.1k advantage arcane mages have over fire mages, so you are probably correct that the arcane mages have inflated DPS numbers.

@eirikrhernandez8860 2 года назад

Actually glad Enhancement shaman is in such a good place despite not reaching the higher places of the ratings. lol

@jesperdenbraven1995 2 года назад

The issue is that wotlk back in the day had progressive class balancing where classic will run final balance patch. And looking at vanilla/tbc pservers compared to classic they are off somewhat to the point where warrior dps were predicted to be a joke in tbc but they do fine actually. Point is, none of the data we have now can accurately score dps

@Scottejaye 2 года назад

This is 3.3 mate so it’s what we will have and as for TBC (I can’t really speak for vanillas) it’s definitely what I was expecting over an average. I’m not defend the data here I’m just saying the DPS people are doing is exactly what I expected from TBC compared to both historically and close to pservers

@yan-zhilinn1402 2 года назад

@@Scottejaye Obviously it's only average data. We all know when there is a dedicated Feral in your group, he is going to top the meters in half the fights completely uncontested.

@Scottejaye 2 года назад

@@yan-zhilinn1402 amen to that 🙏