Between Bischoff and Russo, a lot of BS | Who Killed WCW part 3 | Wrestling Observer Radio 

😂 😂

His agenda is so transparent and obvious. I listen to Conrad and Eric discuss the things he said about WCW back in the day, which are almost exact analogs to what AEW is doing, but now of course he is touting their mistakes as virtues. If you think the wrestling business is only what happens between the bells, this is what you get. Rule number one of wrestling: Meltzer is always wrong, it's just a question of how wrong.

​@@imfreviews"I listen to Conrad and Eric" I stopped reading right here.

@@DomSte128 cool stay blissfully ignorant in your aew tribalism

​@@imfreviewsu have tribalism to Eric clown

Also when ric flair beat Steamboat it was controversial so they didn't just bury steamboat

May 2000 had six title changes not eight Jarrett, flair, vacant, Jarrett, Nash, Flair and then Jarrett. Five if we don't count Nash handing the title back to flair

​@@laxnrc That doesn't help their case. Batshit crazy.

@@laxnrcJarrett deserved it all tbh

Not Guilty; RIP Juice.

@@meherenow793 Haven't had coke that good since he left us 🙏 RIP

"If I Killed WCW, This is How"

Haha.

I know they should have never called him back..he didn't help not at all

It could have been save in January 2000. April 2000 the reset and Golberg turning heel was the point of no return as fan perception.

What was his average? 😂😂😂

@@Rjensen2 better than 2.1…..he only had 2 episodes drop below a 3. A 2.8 on December 13th and a 2.9 2 days after Christmas.

Eddie, Benoit, dean and Perry left in that period of time that definitely played apart

And keep in mind the WCW show was good in 2001

Yep. Jericho was a feature many of us tuned in to watch. I’d say WCW heads at the time didn’t realize how many of us were there for the cruiser weights and not the NWO

My memory might be deceiving me but I recall that at the time, Meltzer expressed much more concern about WCW letting Jericho getting away than he did about the Radicalz' departure.

Fkn same 😂

Adam*

Ah so the Radicalz was born from this...I guess Russo can claim that too

What else is there to say? I doubt they follow the stuff too closely tbh. They probably don’t give a f about the storylines

wasn't a storyline ​@@LRM5195

If Bryan wasn’t so smug and self satisfied constantly, he’d see how Guy’s book was so much more well researched and nuanced compared to his own.

​@@brianogrady3185did you read death of wcw?

@@matt92550 I did. it's riddled with spelling errors and bad grammar. it really opened my eyes to the fact that anyone can publish any piece of shit and call themselves an author.

😂😂😂 Huh?

That might happen along with who ruined AEW.

I'm not saying that your right but it's possible.

Sid Vicious said that most of the lockeroom felt this way.

He was hurt in second half of 98

Dave investigated the WCW numbers trying to work out what made ratings rise and what made them fall, won't do it for AEW though...

BINGO!

"According to Mike Graham..." doesn't mean a whole lot. 😂

According to Mike Graham, he thought he saved the company a bunch of money by getting rid of these guys because they did not draw a dime. boy Mike was so wrong. 😂

@@1992geop And Graham never drew anywhere.

@@Rjensen2 that’s what I said he was wrong. Mike was never a draw.

@@1992geop uh ...yeah? 🤣

Bang on. And all of their fans will claim they're a genius.

Cornette didn't kill shit. He was outed from Russo. Twice.

I mean they kinda of were except Russo. Jim trained Countless stars from the Ruthless Aggression Era and still is a major merch seller. Eric did beat Vince for 83 weeks straight and Russo did right some major storylines apparently

@@rickyvenegas9286 Those guys in OVW would have made it whoever was in charge. They had the bodies Vince looked for.

Most people in life fall into this category in my experience.

No one was watching by the time the blood came down

@@thegoughandbordenfamily8234 True lmao

They acted like they didn't have a black champ in WCW before....Ron Simmons did it around 10 years before. Booker T deserved it for sure though by his own merit and that was the only good thing to come out of that debacle.

His book was very good

His book showed just how much of a mark these two.

@@domdom3810 Full sentences, bro

Bischoff almost took down Vince. AEW hasn't even come close and WWE has been utter 💩 the last 5 years. TK hasn't done 💩 yet

@@keni95851 That's such a naive way of looking at it. Yes, Bischoff did some great things for WCW, there is plenty of proof for that and the NWO is the biggest proof their is, but that doesn't deny the fact that he also made a ton of mistakes. WCW were losing a lot of money when he was there, and he refuses to take any substantial blame for that. He doesn't want to accept that his booking towards the end of tenure was just catastrophic. As for AEW and WWE, that's not my point, and I don't care what their current numbers are. Bischoff was the reason why WCW rose to the top, and he was also the reason why it come tumbling down. Vince Russo was just the cherry on top of a very ugly cake.

Bischoff is the ONLY person to get the better of Vince and the WWF/E. He was responsible for one of the biggest wrestling storylines in history. To completely disregard his opinion on booking and creative is just silly.

Maybe you missed the part in episode 1 where Dick Cheatham, the financial controller for Turner, said that about 80% of the people there hated wrestling and that his boss warned him not to help WCW because executive management didn't want it and if it would be like committing career suicide if they perceived that he was.

I wouldn’t say Booker buried anyone. He gave his perspective on the truth. He didn’t say anything really shocking. Everyone knew Bischoff sided with Hulk on just about everything.

I don't care for Russo at all, but he may have been creatively fried in that particular environment. In WCW, he had a new group of guys to work with, so it was a fresh start where he could do a lot of the same stuff but with different people. And he didn't have VKM harnessing him so he could run wild, unfortunately.

What "older guy"?

​@@obsoleteworldsDave

don't be fooled. As someone who was alive and aware during this era, Dave and Chico have their own agenda to push regarding Bischoff and Russo. I can't recommend Guy Evans's book enough if you want a 100% unbiased look at how WCW came together and fell apart.

@@OlDirtyBaron honestly from everyone’s takes it seems like at the end of the day the company died bc their show got worse while wwe was having its hottest period of all time. The agendas always seem to come out when it comes time to divide up the blame pie for why those shows were so bad. I might have to give that book a read

Nooo NO aew is doing great not in ticket sales merchandise sales or people watching on TV. But 5star matches it's Great!😂😂😂😂 They are literally talking about AEW if you replace the words wcw wit aew and russo/Bischoff and sullivan with the GREAT TONY CLOWN.😂😂😂😂

AEW is doing better than you think. Your hate for them won't allow you to see it because you're being fucked by the Fed. The company that covers up rape.

​@@THEATTKIDdoing better based on what metric?

Last time I checked aew is still running and wcw has been dead for over 20+ years

@@matt92550 and aew is just a corpse.🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

AEW is on a downturn but AEW is no where near as bad as WCW 2000-2001. Go watch some shows from back then and tell me AEW is the same? Not even close. AEW are making there own mistakes which totally different than what happened with WCW.

Remind me what Dave and Bryan do again?

Like you said he would lie too much that's why I wouldn't take anything he said at face value.

It's like poetry; it rhymes.

That doesn't work for me brother

Hogan invented wrestling in 1978. Source = Hogan

@@alexmonro1711 the funniest Hogan lie I ever heard was that he was offered by Metallica to join the band after Cliff Burton passed away. I was like stop it lol

@@JohnRigby5011 😂😂

Wcw was most profitable under Hogan's years.

Well considering the other guy murdered her....

How did the live events and ppv buys do under him?

Russo (and his small yet inexplicably noisy number of stans) like to trump "the ratings went up!" by only comparing Russo to lame duck shows and the wreckage he left behind. He never wants to compare himself to the standard he was hired to achieve. His first set of ratings were only "up" if you (very artificially) compare them to a freakish set of circumstances in the four weeks that preceded him. He got paid big bucks to get WCW above where Bischoff had them.....and he *failed* spectacularly: June through mid-September 1999 (upon which Bischoff was relieved of duties), Nitro averaged 3.26 in head-to-heads with RAW. (They also pulled a couple of 4s back-to-back because of non head-to-head circumstances, I excluded those numbers). It's during a lame duck four week period that the ratings descend to a number that Russo decides to compare himself to, especially the 2.6 on 10-11-1999. But that's not what Russo was hired to beat. He was hired to get them back to 4s and up, which he couldn't do or even come close to doing. Instead, he got them back to where they'd been only a month prior (the same conditions which weren't good enough for Bischoff to keep his job): Those Nitros averaged a 3.21, almost *identical* (except with a month-to-month downturn in PPV buyrates, no discernible gains in house show business and an eventual loss of a third hour of revenue to maintain the illusion of the number he was touting). You're 100% right the numbers plummeted upon his (first) relief of duties. But call me crazy, maybe that had a *little* more to do with the fact that practically 25-50% of the roster that had been regularly featured on television either had their time reduced drastically or disappeared entirely. In the span of 1-2 weeks, Hart and Jarrett get injured (Hart for good) and they were to be featured prominently in title programs. And then Malenko, Saturn, Guerrero, Konnan, Douglas *and* Benoit (the guy they put the belt on for 24 hours) depart entirely (and not for any love of Russo's booking but a disdain at the thought of working for Kevin Sullivan.....if WCW hired Terry Taylor or pretty much anyone other than Sullivan or Graham, we're having a very different conversation). And hey, if Russo is so gung ho to talk about that plummet (and fair enough, go for it), then how's about we look at how it went his second time around? Those Nitros averaged a *whopping* 2.8 and I'm including a couple of unopposed episodes that pull the average up slightly. Of course the ratings dropped again when he left because he didn't leave anything for anyone to properly book: He'd devalued any promotional value of champions (since titles changed hands once a week, it seemed) and left no stars bigger than he found them. It's definitely to the detriment of those who came after him that they didn't right the ship.....but let's not act like they were given the same hand. Bottom line: Vince Russo-- at the most *unbelievably generous* interpretation-- was an overpaid booker who accomplished nothing. That's the *unbelievably great* interpretation. At worst, he torpedoed a troubled but still salvagable promotion with his complete lack of foresight on how to increase the value of the product he was put in charge of.

@@terriblecoughing4767 WCW never had strong house show or PPV numbers. Ever. They were primarily a TV show and was promoted as such. Ratings for Turner is what the order of the day was and all else was secondary.

He helped. He didn't singlehandedly save or turn around the WWF.

Nobody is saying the jackass never had a good idea but he had a filter in Vince McMahon. Everyone has bad ideas from time to time but if you have no one there to tell you they're bad, every idea seems like a good idea.

I agree with you 100%.

The first week he booked 2.6, the last show he booked Jan 1st 3.4, by End of Feb under Sully it was 2.1 Straight facts. Did PPV fall yes, did house show neither grow or fall - yes, was it bad for advertisers ? Yes But did TV ratings go down - NO, they increased almost an entire point.

Now wrestling shows would KILL for 2.4

Between Russo, Bischoff, Dave, and Bryan…a lot of BS.

They want us to think Bo is Uncle Howdy but it's actually David Arquette!

I still love that it went down word for word exactly how CM Punk said it did on the Helwani show. Yet when these two bozo's watched it they tried to tell you about how punk lied lied.

Ol special k at it again 😂

@@Phantom7inCH ol Dr, I mean Phantom can't prove me wrong...AGAIN as he's intellectually inferior 🤣🤣

@@keni95851 Aww man watching Kendra unravel in the comment sections never gets old. Trying to use words like intellectually inferior is one of the many moves special K uses to compensate for having a small brain and a small 🍆.

​@Phantom7inCH awww man watching you spout repetitive ad hom after ad hom because you're intellectually ill equipped to have any kind of real debate is so funny 😂😂😂

@@Phantom7inCH deleting posts because he got owned 🤣🤣🤣🤣

#RentFree

This series was always going to be a train wreck.

Guy’s kisses Bischoff’s ass quite a bit though.